If this changes my 'whistle', I'll be stumped, amazed, and happy all at the same time! LOL! :icon_biggrin:
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If this changes my 'whistle', I'll be stumped, amazed, and happy all at the same time! LOL! :icon_biggrin:
I had what I thought was a whistle also, not continuous but intermittent. I realized when cleaning the Shield one day that if I applied pressure fore & aft to the top of the Shield Base that it would squeak. The Base is pressed up against the Dash and when the Base flexes from pressure the friction causes a Squeak which sounds like a whistle when riding. Took the bike out for a ride and was able to reproduce the Whistle by pushing fore & aft on the top edge of the Base.
I have a spray bottle of Armour-All and sprayed some down into the area between the Dash and Shield Base to reduce friction between the two. This has eliminated 80% of the Squeak (Whistle) on my bike to where I don't notice it. I suppose the Squeak (Whistle) was probably there with my BaggerShield but with the added wind noise could not hear it.
My guess is that the fit between Dash and Base could vary a good bit between bikes since the Dash is not a precision part. Don't know but rounding off any sharp dash edges that may be contacting the Shield Base may help? In my case the Armour-All application made it a non-issue for me.
I spoke to Mark at Madstad today about a few on the forum here that have some buffeting that I am not experiencing. Mark provided the attached drawing showing the F6B Base they are currently shipping (In Red) overlaid on the GL1800 Base I have installed (In Black). I asked Mark to manufacture an F6B Base that has the same upper profile as mine, basically where the lower red lines intersect the vertical black lines everything from that point up will follow the black outline.
Mark is going to ship that to me some time next week. When I receive the base I'm going to remove my front faring cover and confirm that fit and profile are identical to what I have installed. Assuming everything is identical I will be looking for a volunteer that is willing to install this Base and provide us with an objective comparison between the two. I was thinking Scotrod might be a good candidate since he has 2 Madstads installed on two different bikes and access to two different shield heights. If Scotrod does not have the time then perhaps someone else would step up?
I will ship the Base free of charge and if you like it you can keep it courtesy of Madstad Engineering. Just give us a good written comparison. If you don't like it then all I ask is that you ship it to someone else interested in testing it.
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui...&sz=w1808-h808
I currently have my Sis in from out of state and the weather here sux,,,
Hope you Madstad guys can find a solution to these issues...I will stick with my Baggershield as it works great for me and I can ride and enjoy without worry...Just my opinion, but it seems to me there are lot of issues here for just a windshield...Is it really that much better than others???..I wonder....
I had the BaggerShield and thought it was pretty good. I purchased the Madstad because I was curious and I can tell you there is NO comparison, it is not even close.
I know a few are having some issues that I'm not having. Currently I'm the only one running the GL1800 style Base so that could be part of the difference ???
Wife and I both had convertible Baggershields. Now we both have Madstads. We both know what we prefer. Our Baggershields are for sale.
The 'issues' I am having are so small its more of an observance than an issue.
Before the wife got her Madstad, She and I switched bikes. (Mine-Madstad. Hers-Baggershield convertible @ 19 inches)
After ~10~ miles, I was MORE than happy to get off her 6 and back on mine!!! LOL!!!
I love my Madstad. Like on all forums, complaints get the most notice. I wouldn't switch my Madstad for any shield. It took a bit of tweaking to get perfect. Maybe, like everything else, it can't be perfect for everyone?? Different riders size, different helmets, different expectations, etc.
If I were to do it, I'd have to do it just as dang accurate as I could, meaning same day, same road , exact same conditions, same helmet, same everything,,,
But,,, before any of that happens, I'd need to tune/experiment with the new base first,,,,,
So, I'd have to mark/photograph my current set up,,, test and tune with new base, then immediately swap bases / reset brackets to what they were with my original base, and immediately ride again to get a 'close as possible' comparo,,, and then try to determine/define a difference/preference,,,
And,,,, at the end of the day,, as mentioned before,,, What works for me may not make a difference to someone who has a different overall size, different seat, different risers, different helmet,,,
I'm well north of 300 lbs, I have a loooong torso, I use a DayLong Saddle made just for me that sits me a little higher than OEM, and as far as I know, I'm the only one running a 15 inch shield,,,
Not really your 'average' F6B/rider/Madstad combo,,,,:shrug:
Scotrod: I agree with all you have said and realize this takes more than a little time and effort for anyone taking on the task of comparing the two Bases. Since I was not sure you would have the time I sent a PM to F6BPDX since he indicated he might be interested. I indicated to F6BPDX that getting the comparison done quickly is not the objective. Let's face it, weather everywhere is going to suck for a while.
As you indicate it would be important to ride behind both in somewhat of a controlled fashion. In the end if one Base does not perform noticeably better than the other then we can put the whole subject to rest and move on. I like the fact that you have a a few issues with the Madstad. In the end the GL1800 style Base will either address those or not which is the purpose of the whole exercise.
I've not gotten a response from F6BPDX, lets see where he is at on the subject and I'll let you know. Thanks for your offer to help.
Thought I would post a couple of photos of the GL1800 Base mounted on my F6B for anyone interested in the physical difference between the F6B Base and the GL1800 Base Madstad mistakenly shipped to me.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H...201_145518.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-6...201_145637.jpg
Pulled the GL1800 Base off my F6B today to see where the contact points were between the Base and Dash causing the Squeaking that sounds like a Whistle when riding my bike. In this photo I attached Red Dots where it was obvious the Base and Dash were contacting and chaffing causing the Squeak (Whistle) when the Base would Flex due to wind pressure on the Shield.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-c...201_161026.jpg
Took a look at my old BaggerShield and it did not have any chaffing marks on the back side of the Shield in the areas indicated in the photo above. Evidently the Madstad GL1800 Base has a little less curvature than the BaggerShield which allows it to contact in the areas indicated near the center of the Base. I'm going to apply some felt strips to eliminate direct contact between the Base and the areas indicated to eliminate all Squeaking when the Base flexes from wind pressure on the Shield.
We are in a deep freeze here in IL so it will likely be several weeks before I can ride to determine if all Whistling has been eliminated.
That's interesting Scotrod, the image shows up when I view the post ??? I did this one a little different, let me know if you can view it now.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-K...25281%2529.jpg
D, I couldn't see the photo before and now I can. I did get your PM and am interested/willing if Scotrod doesn't feel he has the time. I do not have any of the buffeting that Scotrod mentioned however, nor the back pressure so I won't be any help in that regard. I do get a slight wind in my face (think maybe sitting in front of a household fan on medium perhaps) but I think that is by design/to be expected to a certain degree.
My only ongoing issue is really this damn whistle, if there was no whistle at this point I would give the Madstad a solid 10.
So far my attempts to solve have been:
Foam weather stripping along the base under the bottom edge.
Rubber gasket under the robo brackets where they meet the base
Masking off the "nostril vents"
Masking off the edge where the base meets the cowel/dash
Masking off all holes on the robo brackets
When D mentioned the squeak I realized mine did it too,but that was solved by loosening up the bolts a little and adding a piece of a rubber innertube at each top corner of the shield. Alas no change in whistle. :banghead:
Whistle is present in both an EXO-500 and a Shoei Qwest, so helmet has been ruled out. Also present regardless of if I use the 11" or 13" shield, and regardless of height setting of brackets.
Got it now!!! Thanks D!!!! :yes:
I haven't tried taping off both. Have covered clutch side while riding with no change.
As far as the Qwest goes I really like it a lot. Fits great, and is very quiet both open and closed. I will wind up investing another $80 to go pinlock, and getting my Sena installed was a bit more time consuming due to the non removable liner. All in all though I consider it a great buy.
As far as the Whistle I'm wondering if the differences in the Base dimensions make any difference?? On the other hand the Whistle seems to be more severe in your case compared to what others are reporting. Just for grins I removed my GL1800 Base this morning. In the process I got a good look at the substantial gap between the Base & Dash, at least 1/4" in the areas to the Left & Right of center. Just to see I mounted my old BaggerShield and the gaps were basically the same. I never noticed a Whistle with the BaggerShield but then again the wind noise from that shield would have masked it.
As mentioned earlier I'm going to mount some adhesive felt strips to eliminate all squeaks when the base flexes and let you know the results when we get a reasonable day here to ride. In my case I was able to consistently reproduce the Whistle by applying pressure fore & aft along the top edge of the Base at speed. The volume of the Whistle was never obnoxious on my bike. On my recent FL trip I wore a Half Helmet all the way and did not notice the Whistle at all.
At this point I'll plan on shipping the new Base to you (F6BPDX) once I've confirmed the fit on my Bike. Want to be sure Mark at Madstad and I were on the same page as far as what I am expecting to receive. Just PM me some time with name & address.
Received the GL1800 Base with F6B mounting holes Friday and fitted it to my Bike this morning (Saturday). It's a good fit and all Base dimensions are within 1/8" of the unit I have. Did have a good bit of chaffing on the front center of the Base from shipping. Was able to buff that out using Kit scratch & haze remover with a good bit of elbow grease. Seems I had some chaffing on my unit too. I'll mention that to Mark at Madstad. Anyway tried to pack the unit better for the trip to F6BPDX, will ship Monday.
I must be a bit slow but after having the Base on & off so many times it's pretty clear that Honda engineers intended there to be a gap between the Dash and the backside of a conventional windshield. Vents in the top Faring cover allow air to enter flowing up and behind a conventional shield (or in our case the Madstad base). I don't see any other reason for the front faring vent or the intentional gap Honda engineers designed between the Dash & back side of a conventional shield. The gap is not due to a sloppy fit but rather looks like it's intentional due to the design. So it seems the Honda engineers intended to let air flow up the back side of a conventional shield in a manner similar to how the Madstad functions.
In any event back to the Whistle F6BPDX is experiencing. I mentioned I have an intermittent Whistle like squeak due to the Base rubbing against the dash where F6BPDX has a constant Whistle. Definitely sounds like two different issues. Since I don't have any type of constant Whistle I'm cautiously optimistic the new Base will change wind flow characteristics enough to eliminate F6BPDX's Whistle issue?
d-shark, Honda did not plan or intend for there to be a gap between the OEM windshield, and the dash of the bike. On a brand new GL-1800 or brand new F6B, there is no gap there, with the OEM windshield in place. The mold of the OEM windshield fits nicely up against the dash, and does not allow for a gap.
Taking that into consideration, at least one of the aftermarket windshield manufacturers does supply a thick rubber gasket to install between the dash, and their windshield that they sell. I know, as I have that thick rubber gasket on my bike. Honda never designed the bike to have that gap there. But that specific molding of the lower part of the windshield to fit snugly up against the dash is difficult for aftermarket windshield manufacturers to replicate. Therefore, when installing an aftermarket windshield on a GL-1800 based bike...93.14159 % of the aftermarket windshields will produce the aforementioned gap between the dash and the windshield.
I can tell you that with the thick rubber gasket I have in place on my bike, supplied by the aftermarket windshield company, there is no gap, and no dust comes up between the dash and windshield. The beauty of getting that thick rubber gasket the first time is...anytime I change out windshields to try a different one, I still get to use that thick rubber gasket with all other windshields. It perfectly fills in the "gap".
BTW, that thick rubber gasket can be bought, alone and separate from a windshield, from one of the aftermarket companies.:icon_wink:
"coffee"
d-shark, I do not believe there is a specific link to the rubber gasket. I am NOT trying to promote this company, just trying to assist a fellow forum member here, so when I mention the rubber gasket is supplied by Tulsa Products, at All American Products, http://www.allamericanprod.com/+2oem.html, you need to call them, talk to Allen, and specifically ask for that rubber gasket. Don't even bother telling him it is for an F6B. Just ask for the think rubber gasket they supply for the Goldwing 1800 windshields.
"coffee"
I sent off an email to Allen about cost and how to order. I will let you know what I find out D.
Following up on input from Miles I found these photos of a stock GL1800 Shield on ebay. The irregular molded contour of the Shield to match the irregular contour of the dash is clearly visible. Just curious, was the short Stock F6B shield molded to match the contour of the dash like this??? Looks like from the few photos I've been able to find on the Net the answer is no??? I've never seen the Stock F6B Shield in person.
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2MlgxNj...S8X6u/$_57.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2MlgxNj...S8X6o/$_57.JPG
Here is a photo of a Stock F6B Shield which does not appear to have the irregular molded contour??? Is that correct or is this just a poor photo?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDE2MD...dCg~~60_57.JPG
d-shark, your impressions are correct about the stock windshield. After you posted this, I had to go out...in the snow...and look at the two original F6B windshields I have in my motorcycle garage, and they do NOT have the irregular molded contour that a stock GL-1800 Goldwing windshield has.
I can assure you, Honda did not alleviate that irregular molded contour on the F6B windshield in an effort to allow venting up through there. They neglected to include the irregular molded contour because....it was cheaper...and they already figured out that 93.14159 % of us would change out the stock windshield as the first thing we change on our bikes. :icon_wink:
I already have 19 different flavors of weather stripping at home,,,
Used some thick black foam in the gap area and some thin urethane stripping in areas where the base makes contact w/shield mounts.
Should help w/dust, Maybe a squeak or 2. :shrug:
I just switched out the dark 11" for the clear", and I like the looks better. With the black base plate, the bike retains the look of a short screen as Honda intended with the performance of a large screen.
Yep, same reasoning I used when I selected light gray. :yes:
Did some more experimenting last weekend w/shield positioning. Outer bracket to inner bracket connection lowered from top holes to middle holes. (Pulls shield closer to bike) Slide shield up approx. 1/2 way in the 'knob slots'. Adjust rake to match base.
This orientation is perhaps a tiny bit higher than what I've had before, but seems to work a bit better overall, especially in rough air, and IMHO, ~blends~ with the look of the bike better due to being tighter in and having matched rake.
Right now, the 'intake' height is a hair larger than the base to shield gap. I believe the velocity of the oncoming air is kept 'about the same' between the intake and top of the base as there is a consistent space between those two items.
I really do like the Virtually unlimited adjustability this system provides. It suits the 'tinkerer' in me!!!
So last night I was able to install the new base which I received from d-shark and rode with it to work this morning.
I have a few initial observations, but obviously have not used it long enough to have a full report.
#1 issue I was having was a whistle. This whistle is still present which is making me wonder if I have always had this whistle and just never noticed it due to wind noise with the traditional shields, so the search continues but I will be looking at other possibilities.
Install of this base was easier than my original base, and I believe now that my original was perhaps slightly misaligned hole wise. The bolts never seemed to line up EXACT and the new base ones do.
I had been running my 13" shield with the old base and had to switch to the 11" with the new base as the 13" was simply too tall when factoring in the added 1" of base height. I could run a 13" all the way down, but that would be it. (6' tall with a 30-31" inseam for reference purposes) I will have to dial my height back in with the 11" before I can comment on if the wind protection seems better face wise.
It does appear that I have less shoulder air due to the "wings" on this base but I want to ride it longer before officially making that comment.
This past Thursday in the Springfield. IL area we had about 7 hours of 60+ degree weather. The wind was directly out of the South at a steady 23 mph (stiff). I made 4 round trip runs on a route that consisted of a 4 mile East West stretch (direct crosswind) a 10 mile North / South interstate stretch (tailwind / headwind) and a 6 mile winding interstate stretch around the city of Springfield, IL (lots of dirty air due to traffic, buildings, trees and the 23 mph wind).
I alternated runs starting the first one with Madstad's stock F6B Base and the second with the taller and wider GL1800 style Base. The gap between the Madstad Base and F6B dash was open on these two runs. On the third run I used the Stock Base with a Gasket filling the gap between Base and Dash as well as on the fourth run with the GL1800 style Base.
First of all filling the gap between the F6B dash and Madstad Base had no apparent effect on either wind protection or the Whistle F6BPDX and some others have noted. The Whistle volume was low to my ear and identical on all four runs. I was listening for the Whistle but quickly forgot about it while I was focused on taking note of the wind protection. So some may be more sensitive to the Wind Whistle then others.
I took a few notes between runs as I was changing out one Base for the other. I should note all runs were done with no helmet. The comparison notes were as follows:
Going East / West at 60 mph with a direct 23 mph crosswind the crosswind overwhelmed both Madstad combinations. However with the GL1800 base I never got the feeling my eardrums were getting hammered. A few times with the stock base I could feel the crosswind getting to my eardrums and I had to pull my polar fleece cap back down 3 times as the crosswind was wanting to take it.
On the straight North bound interstate stretch at 70 mph with a 23 mph tailwind the ride was equally quiet and calm with both combinations (really nice). On the straight South bound interstate stretch at 70 mph with a 23 mph headwind I felt a bit more buffeting around the upper arms, shoulders and head with the stock Base. I noted that my jacket sleeves were buffeting in the wind more. Not night & day difference but a difference.
The winding interstate stretch had a lot of dirty air and chop due to the wind, buildings, trees, overpasses and traffic. Again I felt a bit more buffeting around the upper arms, shoulders and head with the stock Base. Again jacket sleeves were buffeting in the wind more by comparison but again not a night & day difference but a difference.
The conditions were somewhat extreme but the ride was informative. I would say the improved wind protection of the GL1800 Base compared to the Stock F6B Base was incremental in my opinion (again not night & day). Both combinations were challenged by these conditions but still performed much better than my previous 11" Baggershield in similar conditions.
We are still at least a month away from any decent riding weather here where I can compare the two under normal riding conditions.
It sounds like our tests are going pretty much the same. I haven't tried them as close to back to back as you but did have a chance to run each of them for half of last week and then both of them on Saturday and have pretty much determined there is little to no difference.
I do get a tiny bit less shoulder buffetting, if you can even call it buffetting in the first place since there is hardly any with either base, with the gl1800 version.
For my "issues" the base choice has made no difference at all, i get an equal amount of wind to the face and the same whistle with both. I also get a nice clean pocket of air with both, albeit with different size shields (the 11" seems to sit better on the GL1800 base and I prefer the 13" on the F6B base).
My opinion thus far is that nobody should really concern themselves with the base size.
To note, all of my testing has been done in a full face Shoei Qwest, so i haven't noticed any difference in ear battering or hat lift as d-shark did.
After another week of 1/2 and 1/2 commutes with the two different bases my final thoughts on this are that folks should do one of two things:
#1 - Not worry about the base at all.
#2 - Make your request based on asthetics. The bases are shaped different and do look different on the bike, and also for me at 6' they "require" different sized shields to realy hit the sweet spot I want them to, which of course is purely subjective. Obviously an 11" vs. a 13" also look asthetically different. (I prefer the looks of the F6B base).
Functionality doesn't seem to be any more or less soley on the base used. I do think there may have been a more pronounced difference originally when Bruce and D were the first two units because the height difference was a full 2" where as now it's more like 7/8".
I know Scotrod had some different concerns/issues than I did so if he wants to test the second base I will gladly send it on it's way, otherwise I will defaut to D for what he wants me to do with it.
F6BPDX,
Thanks for your substantial time and effort to thoroughly test ride, evaluate and report to Forum members on both the Stock and GL1800 Hybrid Madstad Bases.
"#1 - Not worry about the base at all."
I tend to agree with your evaluation of wind protection between the two based on my limited one day test ride so far. I do however plan to get my girlfriends input (she also rides her own bike) as to if there is any difference between the two Bases from the passenger seat. That will have to wait for better weather.
"#2 - Make your request based on aesthetics. The bases are shaped different and do look different on the bike, and also for me at 6' they "require" different sized shields to realy hit the sweet spot I want them to, which of course is purely subjective. Obviously an 11" vs. a 13" also look aesthetically different. (I prefer the looks of the F6B base)."
You hit this point squarely on the head (the look is purely subjective). I am 6',2" tall and prefer the GL1800 Hybrid Base with the shorter 11" Dark Smoke Shield. Others have produced a shorter look with the stock Base by going with a clear shield. I don't particularly like the Robo-Brackets being that visible but understand that approach.
In my case the GL1800 hybrid Base with 11" Shield allows me to adjust the shield all the way down to get more air in the face when needed (when it is Hot). Or adjust the Shield all the way up well above my line of sight to avoid Grasshoppers riding through the South Dakota Badlands. So in my case I'm a tall guy with the shortest shield Madstad makes on my bike.
If anyone is kind of torn between two different Shield heights they are welcome to give the GL1800 Hybrid base a try to see if they can get into a shorter Shield for looks. There is no time pressure just ride it when you get a chance and report your thoughts.
F6BPDX, if it's not to much of a Hassle hang on to the Base until Spring. When the weather starts to break someone might decide to give it a try and you can forward it to them. If by then there are none interested then I will have you ship it back to me since I have a good bit of storage space here and can forward it to any interested parties. If it's in the way at your place and storage is not a good option for you then by all means ship it back to me.
D,
No trouble for me to store it. It is cleaned up and in the box, if and when someone else wants to give it a go I will ship it off at my expense, as was done for me. If at any point you want it back just let me know.