Perhaps one of you can help me understand...

Our beloved F6Bs are wonderful bikes, but we can all admit that Honda went a bit overboard in "nerfing" the B to differentiate from the full wing (Cruise control, GPS, ABS, etc.). Yes, they added cruise two years later, but the point is still valid.

What I don't get is why our USA market, which is always touted to be the "main market", gets the worst end when it comes to features???:shrug: This market is so important we got a late night release showcase of the bike, but SOMEONE in Honda routinely gives us the shaft.

The Canadian and Aussie F6Bs (especially the Aussie version with ABS, cruise, and reverse from the start) have features that we don't for a comparable price, and it appears that the trend continues.

According to page 40 of the manual, ALL versions of the Goldwing (1800B/1800BD/1800/1800D/1800DA) will have some functional form of reverse EXCEPT the US version. :icon_doh: So anyone who wants to simply buy the upgraded F6B without the DCT in the US doesn't get reverse, while everyone else in the WORLD does. :banghead: We're not talking about something they can sell us later as an accessory. We're talking about a function of the bike simply being removed from our market, while we pay basically the same price as the rest of the world .

I don't get it... What's up with Honda USA?? Who makes these decisions and why???

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Originally Posted by bigswole31

Our beloved F6Bs are wonderful bikes, but we can all admit that Honda went a bit overboard in "nerfing" the B to differentiate from the full wing (Cruise control, GPS, ABS, etc.). Yes, they added cruise two years later, but the point is still valid.

What I don't get is why our USA market, which is always touted to be the "main market", gets the worst end when it comes to features???:shrug: This market is so important we got a late night release showcase of the bike, but SOMEONE in Honda routinely gives us the shaft.

The Canadian and Aussie F6Bs (especially the Aussie version with ABS, cruise, and reverse from the start) have features that we don't for a comparable price, and it appears that the trend continues.

According to page 40 of the manual, ALL versions of the Goldwing (1800B/1800BD/1800/1800D/1800DA) will have some functional form of reverse EXCEPT the US version. :icon_doh: So anyone who wants to simply buy the upgraded F6B without the DCT in the US doesn't get reverse, while everyone else in the WORLD does. :banghead: We're not talking about something they can sell us later as an accessory. We're talking about a function of the bike simply being removed from our market, while we pay basically the same price as the rest of the world .

I don't get it... What's up with Honda USA?? Who makes these decisions and why???

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Well... its because us Americans are stronger and do not require a reverse feature... :icon_mrgreen:

:duck:

are decided by the Honda people in the country in question.

They make decisions based on price/content that they believe will sell. For example, the Canadian bikes get the ABS if it's available, haven't seen any exceptions. I do question their sanity when it comes to dropping cruise control and reverse on the early F6Bs.

Just to prove they are insane I have read that there will be no DCT Gold Wings for 2018 in Canada, you have to get the full Tour model to get that.:banghead:

Or buy a used one from the USA.

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Originally Posted by willtill

Well... its because us Americans are stronger and do not require a reverse feature... :icon_mrgreen:

:duck:

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Reverse? Reverse? I don't need no stinking reverse? :icon_biggrin:

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Originally Posted by willtill

Well... its because us Americans are stronger and do not require a reverse feature... :icon_mrgreen:

:duck:

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Lol, that's a funny response, Willtill. I like it.

If it's true that other countries get standard features that U.S. versions don't (I'm not disputing it, I've just never looked into it), then could it be because the majority of Goldwing sales are in the U.S. and therefore Honda doesn't have to include as much bang for the buck to secure sales here? Maybe they need more bells and whistles to attract sales in smaller markets?

Jason

its the sales team in US who is deciding the options and the selling price, in other countries some options are not available and usually they pay far more than the US price. fr my 2017 F6B i paid $28k, yes it does have abs, cruise control n reverse.

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Originally Posted by crossbowme

Reverse? Reverse? I don't need no stinking reverse? :icon_biggrin:

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I have reverse :icon_lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y7SnR9Bc3w

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Originally Posted by terryboyle

....They make decisions based on price/content that they believe will sell. For example, the Canadian bikes get the ABS if it's available, haven't seen any exceptions. I do question their sanity when it comes to dropping cruise control and reverse on the early F6Bs.

Just to prove they are insane I have read that there will be no DCT Gold Wings for 2018 in Canada, you have to get the full Tour model to get that.:banghead:

Or buy a used one from the USA.

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So I guess this is what a meeting in the Honda USA boardroom sounds like:

[Suit 1]: "Hmmm. I think we should remove a tried and true feature that has been on Goldwings for years, is already engineered into the bike's design (therefore it makes virtually no difference to the price), and exists in the bike that would be a primary competitor and is already available in the market (BMW K-series) on a similarly priced vehicle."

[Suit 2]: "You mean like when we took off features that we've had for YEARS like Cruise Control, Navigation, ABS, and reverse to excessively differentiate from the full wing, even though the main competition at the time, the Harley Street Glide, had them all, except reverse, for a similar MSRP?"

[Suit 1]: "Yes."

[Suit 2]: "And you think we should do it again with a no-cost feature that we've had for years... for no sensible reason at all?"

[Suit 1]: "Yes."

[Suit 2]: "You sir.... are a GENIUS!!!"

[Suit 1]: "Not at all! I just keep my finger on the pulse of what our customers REALLY want. I even decided to pioneer a brand new feature... an add-on trunk that takes four hours to put on!"

[Suit 2]: "Amazing!!! No wonder you're the VP!!!"

:icon_doh::banghead:

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Originally Posted by bigswole31

[Suit 2]: "And you think we should do it again with a no-cost feature that we've had for years... for no sensible reason at all?"



:icon_doh::banghead:

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Except they didn't do it again.:shrug:

All models of the new Gold Wing have Nav,cruise,ABS etc... The only exception is the 6 spd manual bagger model doesn't have reverse.

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Originally Posted by Jimmytee

Except they didn't do it again.:shrug:

All models of the new Gold Wing have Nav,cruise,ABS etc... The only exception is the 6 spd manual bagger model doesn't have reverse.

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The "it" isn't the individual items on a feature list. It's the practice of needlessly removing something(s) that can be found on a competing product at the same price point.

It was Nav, cruise, ABS, etc.. against the Street Glide. It's reverse against the K1600B.

Different items. Same Honda practice.

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Originally Posted by bigswole31

The "it" isn't the individual items on a feature list. It's the practice of needlessly removing something(s) that can be found on a competing product at the same price point.

It was Nav, cruise, ABS, etc.. against the Street Glide. It's reverse against the K1600B.

Different items. Same Honda practice.

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I guess I am not following you. :shrug:
What has Honda left off of the new Gold Wing?

The Base model K1600B doesn't have reverse. "Reverse Assist" can be added as an option.

You can buy the Bagger GoldWing with reverse in the DCT version. By the way, BMW doesn't offer DCT.:duck:

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Originally Posted by Jimmytee

I guess I am not following you. :shrug:
What has Honda left off of the new Gold Wing?

The Base model K1600B doesn't have reverse. "Reverse Assist" can be added as an option.

You can buy the Bagger GoldWing with reverse in the DCT version. By the way, BMW doesn't offer DCT.:duck:

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Not sure what you aren't following...

I've seen the K1600B review vids, and I went to a dealer last weekend to see the bike for myself. Reverse Assist is the same electric reverse that Goldwings have. Yes it isn't "standard"... but it IS an option... just as cruise, nav, abs, etc should have been on our model of F6B IF Honda wasn't going to just include them... since all of this tech was already indigenous to the platform. Honda USA makes decisions to remove these things with NO option for them to be added as OEM options... even if we are willing to pay for them.

Reverse was left off from the USA version of the Goldwing 1800B, which is the new version of the F6B without the DCT. It is not available to USA buyers who want the 6-speed manual, non-tour version as standard or as an OEM option. It's native to the flat-six platform, been in Honda's bikes for years, is on the six-speed manual Goldwing Tour and the Goldwing 1800B models in other territories, and as you stated is available as an option on the K1600B... which the BMW dealer told me is getting a trunk accessory. I guess I'm just not a fan of needless take-aways.... especially if you won't even make them available as options.

I don't work for Honda, but do you really think that leaving that option in would have adversely affected the price?? I'm almost surprised that they didn't decide to remove the functionality from the DCT version of the 1800B as well.,,, just because it differentiates the models. :icon_rolleyes:

JMHO. Still love riding my F6B though. :yes:

Back when I was shopping for the f6b, I spoke to a lot of dealers that were shocked that it didnt have reverse. Then they would say that they had a lot of people cancel preorders back in 2012 on the 13's once they found out it didnt have reverse. So Honda would have probably sold a lot more bikes if it had kept the staples of the the full wing. Reverse, cruise, and nav. But, it didnt sell like they thought, and they moved on to another questionable decision.

I think a lot of people bought the 6's because they were deeply discounted and had the flat 6.

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Originally Posted by bigswole31

Not sure what you aren't following...

I've seen the K1600B review vids, and I went to a dealer last weekend to see the bike for myself. Reverse Assist is the same electric reverse that Goldwings have. Yes it isn't "standard"... but it IS an option... just as cruise, nav, abs, etc should have been on our model of F6B IF Honda wasn't going to just include them... since all of this tech was already indigenous to the platform. Honda USA makes decisions to remove these things with NO option for them to be added as OEM options... even if we are willing to pay for them.

Reverse was left off from the USA version of the Goldwing 1800B, which is the new version of the F6B without the DCT. It is not available to USA buyers who want the 6-speed manual, non-tour version as standard or as an OEM option. It's native to the flat-six platform, been in Honda's bikes for years, is on the six-speed manual Goldwing Tour and the Goldwing 1800B models in other territories, and as you stated is available as an option on the K1600B... which the BMW dealer told me is getting a trunk accessory. I guess I'm just not a fan of needless take-aways.... especially if you won't even make them available as options.

I don't work for Honda, but do you really think that leaving that option in would have adversely affected the price?? I'm almost surprised that they didn't decide to remove the functionality from the DCT version of the 1800B as well.,,, just because it differentiates the models. :icon_rolleyes:

JMHO. Still love riding my F6B though. :yes:

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Oh,I follow you. I just don't agree with your assessment. That's all.
:icon_rolleyes:

It's because the USA is not Honda's main motorcycle market. They could stop selling bikes in the USA and it wouldn't make a difference to their bottom line. Asia and Europe are their main markets. Look at all of the bikes in those markets that never make it to the USA.

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Originally Posted by willtill

Well... its because us Americans are stronger and do not require a reverse feature... :icon_mrgreen:

:duck:

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Heeheehee

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Originally Posted by ff73148

It's because the USA is not Honda's main motorcycle market. They could stop selling bikes in the USA and it wouldn't make a difference to their bottom line. Asia and Europe are their main markets. Look at all of the bikes in those markets that never make it to the USA.

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You may be correct in total sales overall, but I'd be very surprised if there was a bigger market for the Gold Wing and variants than the USA.

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Originally Posted by DarkKnt

You may be correct in total sales overall, but I'd be very surprised if there was a bigger market for the Gold Wing and variants than the USA.

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Yeah, Wikipedia says U.S.A. is biggest Goldwing market by a wide margin. Haven't vetted it, but it makes sense.

Jason

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Originally Posted by bigswole31

I don't get it... What's up with Honda USA?? Who makes these decisions and why???

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It is called marketing, and it's not for us to understand. Probably, if you were on the other side of the fence, the Honda side, it would make total sense. But from our viewpoint it does not.

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Originally Posted by druggr

It is called marketing, and it's not for us to understand. Probably, if you were on the other side of the fence, the Honda side, it would make total sense. But from our viewpoint it does not.

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Honda will come out with new car models and the first new year they will be missing all of the bells and whistles. Each subsequent year, they will add a little more bling to the same body style to entice trade-ins. The offshore markets often get bling never offered stateside even in the last year of the given body style.

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Originally Posted by druggr

It is called marketing, and it's not for us to understand. Probably, if you were on the other side of the fence, the Honda side, it would make total sense. But from our viewpoint it does not.

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It probably makes perfect sense from Honda's point of view. For a first year model with the unknowns of market reaction and total sales, it makes sense to keep it as simple as possible. Manage the complexities of supply chain issues, manufacturing and distribution. The fewer the options and variants, the simpler all that becomes. They want the "Goldwing" to make a certain price point (substantially cheaper than the "Tour") yet still provide their profit margin. Simple - strip it down a bit, market it the same way as they did the "B" - sportier, lighter etc, etc... and limit the options. Here in our smaller market (Canada), they limit it even more by not offering the DCT on the 'Wing. I don't think the majority of buyers go into a dealership and sit down, check a bunch of boxes and wait patiently for weeks or months for Honda to build, ship and deliver the bike. At least, I've never bought a bike that way. I don't even think people buy a car that way any more. Anyway, as sales are proven with the next model years, as somebody stated, the different options become available. Honda will react to the market and what buyers want. Slowly.

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Originally Posted by DarkKnt

It probably makes perfect sense from Honda's point of view. For a first year model with the unknowns of market reaction and total sales, it makes sense to keep it as simple as possible. Manage the complexities of supply chain issues, manufacturing and distribution. The fewer the options and variants, the simpler all that becomes. They want the "Goldwing" to make a certain price point (substantially cheaper than the "Tour") yet still provide their profit margin. Simple - strip it down a bit, market it the same way as they did the "B" - sportier, lighter etc, etc... and limit the options. Here in our smaller market (Canada), they limit it even more by not offering the DCT on the 'Wing. I don't think the majority of buyers go into a dealership and sit down, check a bunch of boxes and wait patiently for weeks or months for Honda to build, ship and deliver the bike. At least, I've never bought a bike that way. I don't even think people buy a car that way any more. Anyway, as sales are proven with the next model years, as somebody stated, the different options become available. Honda will react to the market and what buyers want. Slowly.

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I ordered my jeep that way but by and large your probably correct.

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Originally Posted by DarkKnt

.... The fewer the options and variants, the simpler all that becomes. They want the "Goldwing" to make a certain price point (substantially cheaper than the "Tour") yet still provide their profit margin. Simple - strip it down a bit, market it the same way as they did the "B" - sportier, lighter etc, etc... and limit the options.

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That's my point... The reverse feature is a "Goldwing staple". As we read in other posts, its removal, along with other platform staples like cruise and nav, are responsible for the F6B not selling anywhere near its MSRP (they stripped way too much for a + $20K asking price). The R&D for electric reverse has been more than covered over the years, and the parts have been in their warehouses for over a decade, so I just don't see it adding any significant cost to the price of the bike...while it does (needlessly IMHO) create another variant.

Removing the trunk/rear seatback, rear speakers, heated grips and seats, electronically adjustable suspension, taller windscreen, etc. are great differentiators between the base and the tour models. Yanking a tried-and-true platform staple (again) that your customers expected/wanted without at least making it an available option while knowing that your competition (BMW) does on their bike (with a similar price point and feature set) is a head scratcher.

Oh well... it is what it is. When the bike becomes available for sale, Honda's various regional decisions notwithstanding, we'll make our individual decisions on whether or not we want to buy it.:icon_cool: