Honda on the final Drive issue

I just talked to Honda about my final drive being 3 ounces low and told them it was going to Babbitt's Honda for an inspection of the drive oil and gear set. He said the dealer is suppose to do an inspection of every thing and all fluid levels before the sale, he also told me he will have my complaint on file and if the gear set is ok and it fails later on down the road to keep the inspection report from the dealer and together with the original complaint I just had filed with Honda it would benefit me if the gear set goes out. So it does pay to be the squeaky wheel and let them know about problems you encounter. :stirthepot::moon:

And how would it benefit you to have the unit fail? Sounds a little illogical. I want something to fail in order to have a new unit installed? What if the unit goes 100,000 miles without issue? Wouldn't it be better to say, 'I am covered in the event'?

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Originally Posted by stroguy

And how would it benefit you to have the unit fail? Sounds a little illogical. I want something to fail in order to have a new unit installed? What if the unit goes 100,000 miles without issue? Wouldn't it be better to say, 'I am covered in the event'?

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I believe Seadog is talking about saving the paperwork and inspection report so if the unit does fail down the road he will have proof/documentation that he did indeed bring this issue to the attention of Honda...Not talking about any benefit from the rear gears failing as a result....Ride safe

He also wanted to know the outcome of the inspection of the fluids and I expressly told him they had told me they do not check the fluids in the final drive as they figured being factory filled they didn't have too. He was not impressed with that statement. I am hoping they have a bore scope to look at the gears and see if they have been hurt. He also told me that the check sheet I was given when I purchased the bike should say on it what was checked. I went thru the paper work which is undisturbed since I bought it and there is no check sheet in my folder. I will call him back on Monday and let him know that no such sheet exists in my possession.:stirthepot: I am going to ask Honda if I should have a different dealer inspect this bike! Thinking maybe if they figure its their fault they might say everythings fine and button it up and call it good.

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Originally Posted by seadog

He also wanted to know the outcome of the inspection of the fluids and I expressly told him they had told me they do not check the fluids in the final drive as they figured being factory filled they didn't have too. He was not impressed with that statement. I am hoping they have a bore scope to look at the gears and see if they have been hurt. He also told me that the check sheet I was given when I purchased the bike should say on it what was checked. I went thru the paper work which is undisturbed since I bought it and there is no check sheet in my folder. I will call him back on Monday and let him know that no such sheet exists in my possession.:stirthepot: I am going to ask Honda if I should have a different dealer inspect this bike! Thinking maybe if they figure its their fault they might say everythings fine and button it up and call it good.

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Not to hijack the intent of your issue with the final drive, but just wanted to add that I have purchased 12 new Honda motorcycles over the past years and NEVER , as far as I can recall, was ever given any kind of check sheet or dealer prep report...Did not know these sheets were even available.....I had a friend years ago that worked in a motorcycle dealership as a mechanic and he said the check sheets they were supposed to use were a joke as the prep guys looked at the bikes, checked the boxes on the sheet and signed off and know one knew any different...Was a multi-brand dealership if I remember.....

I kind of understand your complaint/concern. If you are that concerned, we have at least one board member that will give you a rear end for the cost of shipping...they are a dime a dozen on eBay for $100.... it will be OK........:2cents:

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Originally Posted by Steve 0080

I kind of understand your complaint/concern. If you are that concerned, we have at least one board member that will give you a rear end for the cost of shipping...they are a dime a dozen on eBay for $100.... it will be OK........:2cents:

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Amen. I know how you are feeling but it's in your best interest to put this deal to rest.

That's easy for you to say Doug. Its not your $20,000 on the line. I think the Dog has a reason to be concerned. What if you're out in the middle of Bum...k Egypt and the diff takes a crap. Let's say you have your lovely bride with you. 100 degrees. Middle of nowhere. We don't all just putt around the house or bar-hop. Some of us take trips. Long ones. 400 miles on a Saturday is normal for me. And Steve its not just $100. What about the install. Some guys don't have the skill or facilities. What you guys make sound trivial can be a major ordeal under the right circumstances. I'm calling Honda also. Mine had 2oz in it. Thanks to Seadog I checked it. Doug if we all sit back and do nothing , then nothing will change. That's what's wrong with this country now. If someone does you wrong , don't just sit there. Kick , scream , holler and jump up and down. Get someone's attention. Don't settle for the status quo. Make a difference.

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Originally Posted by shooter

That's easy for you to say Doug. Its not your $20,000 on the line. I think the Dog has a reason to be concerned. What if you're out in the middle of Bum...k Egypt and the diff takes a crap. Let's say you have your lovely bride with you. 100 degrees. Middle of nowhere. We don't all just putt around the house or bar-hop. Some of us take trips. Long ones. 400 miles on a Saturday is normal for me. And Steve its not just $100. What about the install. Some guys don't have the skill or facilities. What you guys make sound trivial can be a major ordeal under the right circumstances. I'm calling Honda also. Mine had 2oz in it. Thanks to Seadog I checked it. Doug if we all sit back and do nothing , then nothing will change. That's what's wrong with this country now. If someone does you wrong , don't just sit there. Kick , scream , holler and jump up and down. Get someone's attention. Don't settle for the status quo. Make a difference.

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OK then... Have your local Honda shop order in a rear end complete, have them install or split the costs... for me it is to easy a fix, even if I had to pay 1/2 or more...at least I would not be worrying about it and to me that is priceless! I have done the oil change and removed the rear end on my Rune and Valkyrie...4 bolts and some time...it can be done...you do need a set of crows feet wrenches or at least on the Rune...$20 Sears...just sayin.....

Everyone has valid points ....

IF anyone is on a road trip and your rear drive happens to break down (YOU will here squealing and or grinding and or seepage ((rare defective seal)) before it craps out)

Just get to a computer/smart phone and PM me or one of our moderators to reach me .... I'VE had a NEW Black rear drive on the shelf that I can overnite to you with tools anywhere in the lower 48 states.

Continue on your journey after the 1-2 day delay and then just ship back the tools when you return home. It's just a ratchet, loctite and a rubber mallet to convince the old unit to come off (if you have a center stand that's a plus). Any roadside mechanic or even an AutoZone employee can help replace it, it is one of the easiest repairs on this bike.

I have a motorcycle that has a reverse mechanism that holds 7 ounces of gear oil and is common for it to slowly seep some oil through the seals (nature of the beast, they all do it) but as long as it has 2 ounces, it is sufficient until I top it off at the next oil change.

With the high volume production lines and cutting back on employee hours, every company in the world is sacrificing quality. The cost of replacing or repairing to these companies is far less then the extra man/secondary inspector on the line hours. Not saying that it is right but it is the way of the future, hence Honda moving the Goldwing Plant from Marysville Ohio to Japan in 2009-2010. They believe that their Japanese employees are better at quality control and as far as I am concerned they are the same once trained properly.

Let's go riding .....

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Everyone has valid points ....

IF anyone is on a road trip and your rear drive happens to break down (YOU will here squealing and or grinding and or seepage ((rare defective seal)) before it craps out)

Just get to a computer/smart phone and PM me or one of our moderators to reach me .... I'VE had a NEW Black rear drive on the shelf that I can overnite to you with tools anywhere in the lower 48 states.

Continue on your journey after the 1-2 day delay and then just ship back the tools when you return home. It's just a ratchet, loctite and a rubber mallet to convince the old unit to come off (if you have a center stand that's a plus). Any roadside mechanic or even an AutoZone employee can help replace it, it is one of the easiest repairs on this bike.

I have a motorcycle that has a reverse mechanism that holds 7 ounces of gear oil and is common for it to slowly seep some oil through the seals (nature of the beast, they all do it) but as long as it has 2 ounces, it is sufficient until I top it off at the next oil change.

With the high volume production lines and cutting back on employee hours, every company in the world is sacrificing quality. The cost of replacing or repairing to these companies is far less then the extra man/secondary inspector on the line hours. Not saying that it is right but it is the way of the future, hence Honda moving the Goldwing Plant from Marysville Ohio to Japan in 2009-2010. They believe that their Japanese employees are better at quality control and as far as I am concerned they are the same once trained properly.

Let's go riding .....

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Kudos!

thats what this forum is all about! owners helping owners, from the "what the hell is this?" questions to the engineering level mods! everyone I have met on this is willing to help a stranded guy or gal, to get what they need to be on their way! sure, we test each others' patience at times, and don't all have the same political or religious bent, but hell we all have or had the best bike in the world!

For what it's worth...I change the final drive oil every time I change the oil. The diff fluid comes in 16 oz. bottles, hence that's 4 changes. Cheap insurance. ALL my vehicles get oil changes every 5k....period. I've never had any kind of engine problem from anything ever. Plus, it gives you a few minutes to look at other items that might normally be missed in cleaning or preventative maintenance.

Phantom thanks, you sir are a class act.

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Originally Posted by Phantom

Everyone has valid points ....

IF anyone is on a road trip and your rear drive happens to break down (YOU will here squealing and or grinding and or seepage ((rare defective seal)) before it craps out)

Just get to a computer/smart phone and PM me or one of our moderators to reach me .... I'VE had a NEW Black rear drive on the shelf that I can overnite to you with tools anywhere in the lower 48 states.

Continue on your journey after the 1-2 day delay and then just ship back the tools when you return home. It's just a ratchet, loctite and a rubber mallet to convince the old unit to come off (if you have a center stand that's a plus). Any roadside mechanic or even an AutoZone employee can help replace it, it is one of the easiest repairs on this bike.

I have a motorcycle that has a reverse mechanism that holds 7 ounces of gear oil and is common for it to slowly seep some oil through the seals (nature of the beast, they all do it) but as long as it has 2 ounces, it is sufficient until I top it off at the next oil change.

With the high volume production lines and cutting back on employee hours, every company in the world is sacrificing quality. The cost of replacing or repairing to these companies is far less then the extra man/secondary inspector on the line hours. Not saying that it is right but it is the way of the future, hence Honda moving the Goldwing Plant from Marysville Ohio to Japan in 2009-2010. They believe that their Japanese employees are better at quality control and as far as I am concerned they are the same once trained properly.

Let's go riding .....

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I have two more Black rear drives on the shelf as well if anyone needs one in a pinch........just sayin..............Dickie

I have a Black take off rear end to at my house still in the shipping box-For 100 bucks shipped to my house I could not pass it up.Over a year ago I posted here to check your final drive oil level as a lot of Goldwings were low from the factory-I doubt that most dealers would pre inspect this on assembly as most have what I call 10 dollar a hour wrenchs working for them and my history with Honda standing behind there product just sucks.My feeling is get Freds discs and tools and do the work yourself instead of extending the warrenty out-and remember these are pretty much bullit proof engines many going 100's of thousands of miles.My rear end was low at around 600 miles when I checked it so I drained it and refilled with Amsoil severe gear synthetic and 12 thousand miles later she is fine.I would not sweat it and enjoy your ride.

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Originally Posted by shooter

That's easy for you to say Doug. Its not your $20,000 on the line. I think the Dog has a reason to be concerned. What if you're out in the middle of Bum...k Egypt and the diff takes a crap. Let's say you have your lovely bride with you. 100 degrees. Middle of nowhere. We don't all just putt around the house or bar-hop. Some of us take trips. Long ones. 400 miles on a Saturday is normal for me. And Steve its not just $100. What about the install. Some guys don't have the skill or facilities. What you guys make sound trivial can be a major ordeal under the right circumstances. I'm calling Honda also. Mine had 2oz in it. Thanks to Seadog I checked it. Doug if we all sit back and do nothing , then nothing will change. That's what's wrong with this country now. If someone does you wrong , don't just sit there. Kick , scream , holler and jump up and down. Get someone's attention. Don't settle for the status quo. Make a difference.

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All valid points believe me I have had my issues with both motorcycles & automobile manufacturers. It's just been my experience most of the time it's not been worth my time to get too upset. I sure don't want to criticize anyone and I am sure this will get resolved to his satisfaction. Many times in life we just need to step back & take a deep breath and things have a way of working out.
.notworthy.

After this discussion, I just went out and checked mine. Had to add all of 3oz. Dang dealers, that should be part of the prep!

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Originally Posted by photodiver

After this discussion, I just went out and checked mine. Had to add all of 3oz. Dang dealers, that should be part of the prep!

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When I checked mine it was right on, but as you know I traded for mine from a H-D dealer and they are kind of used to checking oil levels frequently. :icon_laugh:

Now that's funny!!!!!

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Originally Posted by shooter

That's easy for you to say Doug. Its not your $20,000 on the line. I think the Dog has a reason to be concerned. What if you're out in the middle of Bum...k Egypt and the diff takes a crap. Let's say you have your lovely bride with you. 100 degrees. Middle of nowhere. We don't all just putt around the house or bar-hop. Some of us take trips. Long ones. 400 miles on a Saturday is normal for me. And Steve its not just $100. What about the install. Some guys don't have the skill or facilities. What you guys make sound trivial can be a major ordeal under the right circumstances. I'm calling Honda also. Mine had 2oz in it. Thanks to Seadog I checked it. Doug if we all sit back and do nothing , then nothing will change. That's what's wrong with this country now. If someone does you wrong , don't just sit there. Kick , scream , holler and jump up and down. Get someone's attention. Don't settle for the status quo. Make a difference.

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Couldn't agree me. I havent checked mine yet but I will be. When I had massive electrical problems with my 13roadglide. I held harley accountable. Even to the point were I sued them under that magnuson moss warranty and I won. This kind of stuff is not acceptable from. So when I check mine and if it's low mother Honda will be getting a call and the dealer a visit

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Originally Posted by photodiver

After this discussion, I just went out and checked mine. Had to add all of 3oz. Dang dealers, that should be part of the prep!

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That is part of the dealer prep, they are supposed to check all fluid levels before the sale of their bikes. Its evident that they are not doing their job relaying on the factories fill job to suffice.

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Originally Posted by Doug44

All valid points believe me I have had my issues with both motorcycles & automobile manufacturers. It's just been my experience most of the time it's not been worth my time to get too upset. I sure don't want to criticize anyone and I am sure this will get resolved to his satisfaction. Many times in life we just need to step back & take a deep breath and things have a way of working out.
.notworthy.

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Doug if you step back and take a breath on this one you'll be putting a new final drive in before 10,000 miles. It's not the gear set that's gonna fail. Its still hitting at 1oz. Its the bearings. If you change your oil yourself and the differential fails at say 10,000 miles , Honda won't replace it. Its on you. You are supposed to check it when you do a service. It calls for inspection at 8,000 miles. So if you think warranty will cover it , it doesn't.

This is the most relevant thread we have had in a long time. I mean , thanks to Seadog a lot of us may have saved ourselves a catastrophic failure down the road. Hopefully everyone on this forum will check the final drive fluid. If you have the time take it to your dealer. Make them check it. If its low ask them why.

what is the correct way to check you FD oil? On the side stand or stood straight up? I am only asking for future reference because my bike was heavily damaged when I hit something on the freeway. Also this seems more common than I would think, two of my buddies have told me theirs were low also.

Here is the information in the manual page 150 that addresses this.

(Models equipped with a center stand)

1) Place the motorcycle on its center stand on a firm,level surface.
(Models not equipped with a center stand)

1) Hold the motorcycle upright on firm level ground.
2) Remove the oil fill cap.
3) Check the oil level.It should be flush with the lower edge of the oil fill hole.
4) If the level is low,check for oil leaks.Add the recommended oil through the oil fill hole until it reaches the lower edge of the opening.
5) Install the oil fill cap.

Doug

Thanks Doug, good stuff from all.

I know the dealer didn't check anything other than the engine oil on mine. I watched them uncrate it and put it together.

I checked the rear end because an earlier thread had comments about being low and sure as heck...............

I had checked mine on the center stand as the manual states.
Low and behold the second the plug came out,oil everywhere.
I cleaned it up with a big grin on my face.
I would not have expected anything other than what I found.
The dealer I use check everything.
They have never let me down.
I was tickled.

Doug

Checked mine and I had 3 ounces was not even close to the hole level. No probs drained and refilled. Thanks for the heads up.
2015 blue with 9347 Klms when I checked. It was a little black too.

Rear Differential was 1 oz low from the dealership :shock:

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Originally Posted by TailGunner

what is the correct way to check you FD oil? On the side stand or stood straight up? I am only asking for future reference because my bike was heavily damaged when I hit something on the freeway. Also this seems more common than I would think, two of my buddies have told me theirs were low also.

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Hey Tim, just check it like the X... straight up and fill with the same amount just like the X too.:yes:

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Originally Posted by BIGLRY

Hey Tim, just check it like the X... straight up and fill with the same amount just like the X too.:yes:

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See Larry even you the almighty gets confused. The X was checked on its sidestand so that is why I wanted to confirm for the 6. Max has the bible and he says its not in there.

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Originally Posted by TailGunner

See Larry even you the almighty gets confused. The X was checked on its sidestand so that is why I wanted to confirm for the 6. Max has the bible and he says its not in there.

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My bad :icon_doh: :banghead: X on the side stand 6 straight up, but the capacity is the same in both final Drives.
Page 3-20 and page 14-3 of the GL1800 bible both tell ya: 4.1 US oz after draining or 5.1 US oz after disassemble.
Page 1-8 VTX1800 service manual: 4.1 US oz after draining or 5.1 US oz after disassemble

After hearing all the reports about the final drive level being low, I decided to check mine. Well, you can add me to the growing list :shock:. I haven't topped it back off yet but I had to probe far down in there to reach oil. It has to be at least 2 ounces low. Still, I'm not particularly concerned about damage since there was SOME oil in there and there has been no discernible noise or vibration from that unit. I'm going to top it off with Mobil 1 75W90 and check it again in a thousand miles or so.

Well I like some had not checked mine . Thank goodness it is fine, not running out the hole but ok. The plug wasn't over tight either I guess i'm one of the lucky ones.

The wife just bought a new Shadow, I asked the dealer to check the rear diff, he said we never check them.
Thats done at the factory. I told him about the numerous complaints about low levels and he said he had never heard anything of the sort.
I took the bike straight home, and checked it. Sure enough 2 ounces low....... In talking about the F6B ( he is a major Goldwing dealer) he also recommended a service between 600 and 1000 miles in which he also changes the diff oil. He said " it's cheap and easy to do so why not?"