Arsenal of Democracy

[stroguy]

obama, a intelligent businessman? OK. Stand on a pedestal and make a choice. Pat Tillman did. Politicians make horrible soldiers because they don't understand the concept of war.....kill and destroy. The Neville Chamberlains and FDR's never get it until the knife is at their throats. Then the only resolution is war. You want to sit down with people that smile during tea while their friends are in the backroom slitting your child's throat? Go right ahead. The statement of 'who started the fire' confirms plenty to me. To me there is no way to justify WHO started the fire. You take a side and the hand of the Pat Tillman's and you defend what you perceive as righteous and true. I don't let the diarrhea of the interweb and quacks confuse me. I know what America is, stands for and will always be. You don't.

Plenty of scientists and engineers have also come up with 5 different theories on how and why JFK was killed. Having a degree and a college education does not give you a pass to the truth. I know plenty of just plain dumb folks with college degrees. Since you like to always refer people to go read, how about you go read the educated ramblings of a sheila jackson lee. You will need no further proof of my claim.

[shooter]

OK , so I'm tired of people calling Obama 'intelligent'. This so called 'great orator' has never been proven. If you watch him you will see that this man may have at the best average intelligence. Unimpressive to say the least. I'm just giving my opinion and observations. If that offends anyone , tough.

[Limoles]

Sorry . Not paying attention to the spelling , I made mistake , looking over not so clear sentence , related to "shooter's" hypothetical question . Instead Obama ( in that time he was unknown anyway ) , that mentioned name suppose to be OSAMA , which is completely changing the logic of my response :

"Osama was a good , intelligent businessman , so I could invite him for a dinner to make a deal . That move could prevent growing terrorism , which you don't know now , how to deal with anymore."

In fact , Bush and his administration , prior to that tragic event knew , who he was and what OBL capabilities were , especially the White House was aware of possible attack , but for some unknown reason lost "strategic cleverness". There were many occasions to capture him , or assassinate . You tell me , why it didn't happened ? Yes , using my diplomacy , I would invite him for the dinner and offer my conditions of the deal , means - get the oil ( and pay for it ) , but in exchange , to withdraw American Forces from Saudi Arabian fields . Wouldn't be it fair ? That's how I ( and rest of the world ) see it and how fair business should be conducted among ( long time ) partners . Wouldn't it prevent America from living in fear now ? The same conditions of the deal were presented by Osama much earlier , but it was ignored and consequently his masterminded RETALIATION responded in unprecedented scale . The fundamental cores of Arab's mentality and muslim's faith are exclusions of foreign troops in THEIR LAND . I think , the same policies apply to any independent country , incl. USA . Isn't it ultimate right of individual state's sovereignty ?

Then "shooter" asked for more specific.
"Okay, your plan starts with abdicating our alliances for protection using US manpower and money. Is that correct? No no more global police force. After that I'm not sure where you are going. Please elaborate."

Actually you made my point . Are you trying to tell me , that BP , Chevron , Mobil and Shell are our "alliances" ?
Who gave you rights to occupy foreign territories in the name of dirty profits of few ? Don't tell me it's your job to manifest your PATRIOTISM in such a mission . Where are your moral codes , which we should respect and to be proud of ? If your Army Boys are so brave , why they don't protect slaughtered and innocent people in the rest of the world now ? In many countries bloodshed is the daily event and I don't see presence of any of our soldiers to stop , or even prevent it . Arabs , with their believes , culture , style of life and long history have their own way of existence and we don't need , or must not to change it . It's for themselves - not for us , distanced by time and ocean .
Look at the world now - wherever Americans were acting without UN and trying to "restore" , or establish the New Order , they faced failures . What they do instead ? They protect Big Businesses with military installations , where people of entire world DO NOT ACCEPT IT ! Now do you know , why "anti-American" sentiment is so strong ? Isn't that enough to understand wrongly designated motives of doing business under umbrella of "fixing" everybody's problems ? International policies are so different everywhere and are based on different principals of the people and their land . It should be recognized too . At least I do .

"jm21ddd15
To my knowledge, the U.S. has a voluntary Army. Nobody got "sent" that wasn't aware of what they were doing. Myself and my son are both Military vets who "volunteered" and don't regret it, unlike some in the White House that never enlisted.An you , send young boys to war???

Before your "voluntary" deployment , I would look at the map and check geography on focused terrain first . Did you ever recognized origin of hijackers , who were RESPONSIBLE for that attack ? If not , let me remind you :
15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia ! The 2 others were from the United Arab Emirates , one from Egypt and one from Lebanon. So , you landed in wrong Airport ... voluntarily (?) . I can't not comment such a explanation . Or , maybe unknowingly you were dispatched to protect mines of much needed now LITHIUM ? Why under your and son's presence , production of opium has been increased and flawlessly enriched American market ? Is it OK , because of American demand for heroin , or what ? What did you do , when Taliban destroyed so many of your installations and transports of American weaponry ? Finally , what's the result of your "mission" ? Another un-complished one ? It doesn't sound right .

"stroguy"
You see - we have different opinions and backgrounds , but I do not tirade you in such a passion , which you unleash so often . You already presented your bully character and that still didn't impressed me . I detected , you are first class racist , hiding behind your American "values" , and someone else around are not worth your privileged status ( of what ? ) . It is also proving , how small you are . If you trying to convince me , that your "truth" is more valuable , so be it . It would be senseless to argue . You must live with your "adopted knowledge" and stay with your affiliated "plain dumb folks with college degrees" , which will make you feel better and maybe respected (?). For me your comment don't means much , so if will not irritate my integrity , I will always try to skip it .

[srt8-in-largo]

Obama is neither intelligent, nor a businessman, much less an intelligent businessman. I'd be doing well to call him a good speaker and leave it at that.

Building #7 was brought down by the heat of the twin towers, no? If Bush did it I'd certainly like to know

America sure does carry a big stick... and we used the ultimate big stick to saves the worlds ass in WWII. Further, we did so with great anguish as a last resort and we subsequently did something no other country in the world would even CONSIDER; we befriended our "enemies" and rebuilt their countries.

Since the days of WWII, IMO, our government has been a bit "over-active". Of course this is an easy charge to levy; I mean who can say the world would be better had we not been so? Maybe it would be a lot worse instead. If the question is "do some segments of the world hate America due to our government" then the answer is obviously yes... but... so what. To even consider that America is itself the problem behind 911 and our current "disagreement" with the Islamacists, is weak, for lack of a better word.

For all my bitching about an "over-active" government, the fact is that many of these acts allow us to sleep soundly at night. So before I or any of us get too deep into criticizing, I would first say thank you, and further, maintain that thankfulness as we strive to keep this country as a place worth defending.

[srt8-in-largo]

Whoa...



Les, you're reading way more into some posts than is actually there.

[srt8-in-largo]

Les, your views make a lot of assumptions and are quite conspiratory, with the USA always cast as the bad guy. The whole bit about everything being about oil is a favorite old line of the nutjobs; if America wanted the oil so bad, we'd just take it. But is that what we do? (no)

How about seeing the positives and giving the benefit of the doubt to this country... the one you chose to come to? It's impolite to take a shit in the house of your hosts.

[Limoles]

It was Roosevelt's call in time of WAR :

"The Arsenal of Democracy" was a propaganda slogan coined by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt, in a radio broadcast delivered on December 29, 1940. Roosevelt promised to help the United Kingdom fight Nazi Germany by giving them military supplies while the United States stayed out of the actual fighting. The announcement was made a year before the Attack on Pearl Harbor, at a time when Germany had occupied much of Europe and threatened Britain.
Germany was allied with Italy and Japan (the Axis powers). At the time Germany and the Soviet Union signed a non aggression treaty under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and had jointly invaded Poland in 1939, a deal that remained until the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1941.
Roosevelt referred to Detroit, Michigan as "the great arsenal of democracy" because of the rapid conversion of much of the Detroit-area automotive industry to produce armaments during World War II. The speech was "a call to arm and support" the Allies in Europe, and to a lesser extent China, in their all-out war against Germany and Japan.

My call is only reminding advantages of PEACE , which I try to advocate .

ps.
So , what happened to Detroit now ?

[jm21ddd15]

Sorry . Not paying attention to the spelling , I made mistake , looking over not so clear sentence , related to "shooter's" hypothetical question . Instead Obama ( in that time he was unknown anyway ) , that mentioned name suppose to be OSAMA , which is completely changing the logic of my response :

"Osama was a good , intelligent businessman , so I could invite him for a dinner to make a deal . That move could prevent growing terrorism , which you don't know now , how to deal with anymore."

In fact , Bush and his administration , prior to that tragic event knew , who he was and what OBL capabilities were , especially the White House was aware of possible attack , but for some unknown reason lost "strategic cleverness". There were many occasions to capture him , or assassinate . You tell me , why it didn't happened ? Yes , using my diplomacy , I would invite him for the dinner and offer my conditions of the deal , means - get the oil ( and pay for it ) , but in exchange , to withdraw American Forces from Saudi Arabian fields . Wouldn't be it fair ? That's how I ( and rest of the world ) see it and how fair business should be conducted among ( long time ) partners . Wouldn't it prevent America from living in fear now ? The same conditions of the deal were presented by Osama much earlier , but it was ignored and consequently his masterminded RETALIATION responded in unprecedented scale . The fundamental cores of Arab's mentality and muslim's faith are exclusions of foreign troops in THEIR LAND . I think , the same policies apply to any independent country , incl. USA . Isn't it ultimate right of individual state's sovereignty ?

Then "shooter" asked for more specific.
"Okay, your plan starts with abdicating our alliances for protection using US manpower and money. Is that correct? No no more global police force. After that I'm not sure where you are going. Please elaborate."

Actually you made my point . Are you trying to tell me , that BP , Chevron , Mobil and Shell are our "alliances" ?
Who gave you rights to occupy foreign territories in the name of dirty profits of few ? Don't tell me it's your job to manifest your PATRIOTISM in such a mission . Where are your moral codes , which we should respect and to be proud of ? If your Army Boys are so brave , why they don't protect slaughtered and innocent people in the rest of the world now ? In many countries bloodshed is the daily event and I don't see presence of any of our soldiers to stop , or even prevent it . Arabs , with their believes , culture , style of life and long history have their own way of existence and we don't need , or must not to change it . It's for themselves - not for us , distanced by time and ocean .
Look at the world now - wherever Americans were acting without UN and trying to "restore" , or establish the New Order , they faced failures . What they do instead ? They protect Big Businesses with military installations , where people of entire world DO NOT ACCEPT IT ! Now do you know , why "anti-American" sentiment is so strong ? Isn't that enough to understand wrongly designated motives of doing business under umbrella of "fixing" everybody's problems ? International policies are so different everywhere and are based on different principals of the people and their land . It should be recognized too . At least I do .

"jm21ddd15
To my knowledge, the U.S. has a voluntary Army. Nobody got "sent" that wasn't aware of what they were doing. Myself and my son are both Military vets who "volunteered" and don't regret it, unlike some in the White House that never enlisted.An you , send young boys to war???

Before your "voluntary" deployment , I would look at the map and check geography on focused terrain first . Did you ever recognized origin of hijackers , who were RESPONSIBLE for that attack ? If not , let me remind you :
15 of the 19 were citizens of Saudi Arabia ! The 2 others were from the United Arab Emirates , one from Egypt and one from Lebanon. So , you landed in wrong Airport ... voluntarily (?) . I can't not comment such a explanation . Or , maybe unknowingly you were dispatched to protect mines of much needed now LITHIUM ? Why under your and son's presence , production of opium has been increased and flawlessly enriched American market ? Is it OK , because of American demand for heroin , or what ? What did you do , when Taliban destroyed so many of your installations and transports of American weaponry ? Finally , what's the result of your "mission" ? Another un-complished one ? It doesn't sound right .

"stroguy"
You see - we have different opinions and backgrounds , but I do not tirade you in such a passion , which you unleash so often . You already presented your bully character and that still didn't impressed me . I detected , you are first class racist , hiding behind your American "values" , and someone else around are not worth your privileged status ( of what ? ) . It is also proving , how small you are . If you trying to convince me , that your "truth" is more valuable , so be it . It would be senseless to argue . You must live with your "adopted knowledge" and stay with your affiliated "plain dumb folks with college degrees" , which will make you feel better and maybe respected (?). For me your comment don't means much , so if will not irritate my integrity , I will always try to skip it .

So, you really believe all that crap in your post? I'm happy for you. Your the only person I know that does. Anyway, this Thread is going too far away form motorcycles and the F6, which is why I joined in the first place. Have a good day in your world.

[stroguy]

I think diarrhea was an astute observation. Yes jm a simple post to link people to a celebration of America turned to diarrhea. On to the motorcycles.

[53driver]

Les - either UBL (Usama Bin Laden) or the head of ISIS (whoever holds that post this week) or Iran's caliphate, or Iraq's leader or anyone else being invited to dinner does NOT equate to a foreign policy.
You have obviously no clue as to what is involved in foreign policy. Especially when it comes to treaties of alliance & protection we have with other countries. And yes, I too believe that gas should be $10 a gallon - like the rest of the world.

And when I - not shooter (let's get the rest of the names correct) - asked you to elaborate on your "foreign policy," you went off on tangents as a response so I am forced to surmise that you either have no legitimate response or this is a game to you. Rest assured that it is no game to me and forces me to conclude that you are in way over your head. This would be a good example of not knowing when to "keep silence and let others believe you the fool, than to open your mouth and leave no doubt."

Bottom line: I gave you a blank canvas to paint in whatever rainbow colors the mechanics of your global kumbaya hypotheses and you think a dinner party will resolve the issues.
Not even a legitimate attempt at a solution. FAIL.

It is obvious English is not your first language.
It is obvious from your views that you are from a country in Europe.
I reckon your family suffered in WWII and you have the US military or Russian military (I'm guessing the latter since you have such a chip on your shoulder towards the US military) to thank to end the Nazi suffering - and they did it without the UN's blessing.