Is HARLEY DAVIDSON in financial trouble? - Page 4
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Thread: Is HARLEY DAVIDSON in financial trouble?

  1. #31
    shooter
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    I've said this before. I don't care if you ride an HD. Just don't look down your nose at me and tell me I'm riding an inferior product. Both my brother in-laws ride Ultra Classics. That's who I ride with most of the time. There is a lot of friendly back and forth. We have fun with it. They tell everyone they are ashamed of their sister for riding on back if a Honda. She tells them if they can ever catch up maybe they can talk about it. I'm proud to ride a Honda. I don't need a HD to make myself feel good. HD builds some good looking bikes. That CVO Breakout is hot. Probably 30 or 35 thousand. Not for me.

  2. #32
    Senior Member 2015F6B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytee View Post
    I'd be more worried about the future of Honda's MC lineup with recent year's offerings.

    I like Honda, but if it were not for the flat 6 engine, I'd be riding something else.
    Amen . . . .

  3. #33
    Senior Member VStarRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytee View Post
    Harley isn't going anywhere. Just because sales are down, doesn't mean they are in trouble, just means the market has been adjusting and will always adjust. I'd be more worried about the future of Honda's MC lineup with recent year's offerings.

    I've said before to many a Harley riding friend that if Harley would manufacture something equivalent to a bike like my F6B ,I could possibly be a Harley customer. I like Honda, but if it were not for the flat 6 engine, I'd be riding something else.
    I was saying this for awhile, probably because I had been used to the "cruiser" riding position offered by my VStar 1100. I took some time to adjust to the semi-cruiser position featured on the F6B. However, now after ~1,300 miles, I appreciate the position much more. It seems to be much more conducive to longer rides, no matter what seat/seat modification one makes to the cruiser. Also, the handling on the F6B is so impressive for such a big bike...my 1100, despite weighing 300 lbs less, handles much more clumsily.

    I test rode a Victory CC Tour. I loved the look and even though it was out of my price range, I was thinking of ways to pay for it as I pulled up to it in the dealer's lot. I cut the test-ride route in half because I was so disappointed with the seat, the ride, the excessive vibration, lack of low end power, quality control issues, etc. I stopped at the Honda dealer on the way home and made a deal on the '13 F6B, saving several thousand in process.

    I have never ridden a Harley, but based on my experience with the Vic, I am guessing I would like it even less. One thing has always stood out to me...$30 grand + for an air-cooled push-rod twin? Really?? That is about the cheapest engine design to manufacture.

    One more thing - the 1800 Flat 6 is beyond impressive with its power - if they offered a 1200 Flat 4 with around 80 hp, I would be completely fine with that.
    Former Ride:
    2013 F6B Standard, black; sold 7/2019
    Latest Addition:
    2016 Gold Wing Level 3, red; SCT transmission stuck in manual mode
    2019 Miles:
    7,900 as of 10/6

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    They have a captive audience. Most HD owners are brainwashed. They think its the only brand worthy of their money. They scoff at the idea of owning a Honda. Out of the blue , wife asks me tonight , "why do people think they have to buy a Harley"? I had to think about it for a minute. I think its peer pressure. And since most people are followers , they do what is expected instead of making a decision based on facts.
    Goes back to the old political saying "generally the masses are asses"....Seems this happened in the last elections and applies to most "brainwashed" HD riders....JMHO

  5. #35
    Admin - Chief poop scooper Phantom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VStarRider View Post

    One more thing - the 1800 Flat 6 is beyond impressive with its power - if they offered a 1200 Flat 4 with around 80 hp, I would be completely fine with that.
    The flat 4 came on the original Goldwing back in the 70's. Honda has a V-4 in the ST1300 that is also bullet proof. The ST's are more comparable to a Sport - Tourer and not a cruiser.



    Successful people build each other up. They motivate, inspire and push each other. Unsuccessful people just hate, blame and complain.

  6. #36
    Senior Member 2015F6B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom View Post
    Honda has a V-4 in the ST1300 that is also bullet proof. The ST's are more comparable to a Sport - Tourer and not a cruiser.
    Sadly the ST1300 is out of production . . .

    Previously, I owned a VFR1200, V4, shaft drive with bags, etc. Great sport-touring bike that is still in production for the European market but sadly not marketed in the USA any more.

    My thoughts on HD (and I've been there). . . you're not buying the best bike out there but you are buying a lifestyle . . one is which I no longer care to be part of.

  7. #37
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    Before buying the F6B I looked at Motor Guzzi, the California Touring in particular. I really liked this bike. The styling was fantastic, what held me back was the engine was not water cooled and the dealer support wasn't there. Moto Guzzi's seem to be well made bikes.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytee View Post
    Harley isn't going anywhere. Just because sales are down, doesn't mean they are in trouble, just means the market has been adjusting and will always adjust. I'd be more worried about the future of Honda's MC lineup with recent year's offerings.

    I've said before to many a Harley riding friend that if Harley would manufacture something equivalent to a bike like my F6B ,I could possibly be a Harley customer. I like Honda, but if it were not for the flat 6 engine, I'd be riding something else.
    One thing to put Honda vs. HD in perspective: Honda sells in 5 days what Harley sells all year. About 18 million bikes a year for Honda, about 270,000 a year for Harley. Dramatically different volumes of bikes...

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShanghaiDan View Post
    One thing to put Honda vs. HD in perspective: Honda sells in 5 days what Harley sells all year. About 18 million bikes a year for Honda, about 270,000 a year for Harley. Dramatically different volumes of bikes...
    Remember that figure accounts for all classes of motorcycle not just cruisers. It also includes quads and other non street units. HD is a one trick pony that isn't #1 in it's chosen niche either.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Old Ryder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jm21ddd15 View Post
    Yes sir. That engine went in the V-Rod, the Street Rod, The Night Rod, etc. It is/was a great engine! Harley should have put that motor into some of their other bikes. Too bad, a missed opportunity.
    I don't think it would have been accepted. I own a Street Rod as a 2nd bike. It is a 2006 model and I got it for a song. It sat on the dealers floor for 5 years and was bought by a 40 year old woman schoolteacher who took it on a 3 month tour of Texas, New Mexico, Az, etc...--then a 70 year old man bought it as a Sport tourer. After being on the boards and doing my research, the Street Rod crowd are very loyal as this is a super bike. It has mid position pegs, 124 HP (stock with OEM everything) with 88 lbs of torque and after 5K RPM you had better hold on. It is a one off chassis that gives a 40 degree lean angle and 4 degrees less rake than a standard Vrod and then lengthened in the middle for a true Sport Bike/Super Bike feel. A 28" inseam can sit flat footed at a light. The result???? They made them for 2 years and quit! They are hard to give away now and impossible to sell with a new $15K price tag. Standard Vrod parts don't fit. Can't even find a seat these days. No such thing as aftermarket ANYTHING, but let me tell you that this is a wonderful machine that everybody HATES. This machine will hang with about any crotch rocket and is well mannered in the turns as well as a straight line. It is extremely well engineered. Harley riders do not acknowledge the Vrod as a true Harley and Vrod riders don't acknowledge the Street Rod as a true Vrod! This is the true red haired stepchild! Then there was the Cafe' Racer Sporster. How many of those do you see?

    The point is that it is a gamble whenever Harley goes into a different "market". They do not have a lot of success even when they produce a great bike.
    "Life is hard. Harder when you are stupid"-- John Wayne[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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