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  1. #71
    Senior Member motozeke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGLRY View Post

    Reagan supported the Brady Bill, which the NRA opposed. I personally strongly support the right of citizens to own guns (I own one myself, have since the LA Riots in the 90s), but I would be in favor not just of background checks but of mandatory safety training in whatever class of gun you're attempting to purchase--be it handgun, rifle, or shotgun. I further strongly oppose high-capacity magazines, whose sole purpose is military in nature.

    For all the bedwetting about "they're coming for our GUNZ BOYS!" the reality is that most of us support sensible restrictions.

    And I'd love to have ONE of you step forward and tell me how Obama took your gun away. After all, he had 8 years to do so.

  2. #72
    Moderator Hornblower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motozeke View Post

    And I'd love to have ONE of you step forward and tell me how Obama took your gun away. After all, he had 8 years to do so.
    For sure, it wasn't for the lack of trying
    Ken (Hornblower)

  3. #73
    Senior Member tiltingf6b's Avatar
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    when guns or ammo fails

    Quote Originally Posted by shooter View Post
    You know Dickie years ago the late great Jeff Cooper offered a million dollars to the first person that proved a gun killed someone. As of yet there have been no takers.
    Truth be known there have been a few guns which chambered a round and the chamber failed - the resulting backfire and shrapnel to the face of the shooter resulted in death. So yes, a poorly designed or maintained gun or ammo can kill someone. semantics, is just a game, firearms are forreal. You preach to the choir. humor intended.
    Be Careful What YOU Wish For

  4. #74
    Senior Member ths61's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by motozeke View Post
    Reagan supported the Brady Bill, which the NRA opposed. ....
    Governor Reagan also signed the Mulford Act in 1967 which made it illegal to carry loaded firearms in public. It is also illegal to conceal carry in the Reagan library (where the "Friends of the NRA" have their meetings to discuss their alleged 2A rights versus practicing them). Reagan wasn't as pro-2A as many make him out to be (nor is the NRA, the NRA is interested in itself).

    I support standard capacity magazines (not banning them). It took over 400 rounds to take down just 2 San Bernardino terrorists. What good is 6 or 7 rounds when there are multiple bad guys, or even one for that matter. An Atlanta Georgia mother put 5 rounds of .38 into an intruder's chest at point blank range. The guy walked out of the house, got in his vehicle and drove away. What if there were 2 home invaders?

    As for training, California requires every purchaser to pay for and pass a safety test for any type of firearm purchase, pistol or long gun. They also have to pass a manipulation/operation test at the time of delivery. They also make you wait 10 days to pick up your new purchase, even if you already have hundreds of registered guns. For some reason, California thinks the 201st gun is going to do something wrong within those first 10 days of purgatory.

    California will require ammunition purchasing licensing soon. If you want to buy ammo, you will have to buy a license first. What other Constitutional Rights do you have to buy every couple of years ?

    As for BHO, he has appointed over 600 judges nationwide. 329 of the Federal judge appointments (40 percent of the entire federal judiciary) are lifetime appointments. BHO's appointees have shifted control of the appeals courts to nine of the 13 circuits to do his bidding well after he has left office. He did not have to sign any direct anti-gun bills because his judges are doing it for him.

    States like California will ramrod unconstitutional anti-2A laws through which take big $$$ (enjoyed by the "players") and years to challenge in courts and then the "hand picked" appeals courts uphold the unconstitutional anti-2A laws. Other blue states will adopt California's anti-2A practices purely because California does it, not that it makes sense or is Constitutional. BHO played the long game and has stacked the deck in his favor.

    As for the judges, many of them do not understand what they are ruling on, they are ruling based on political agendas and personal biases, not law. If I had my way, each judge MUST BE TRAINED on firearms before they can make any rulings about them. A recent attorney (from the landmark Heller versus DC case) just argued in front of the 13th Circus Court that the California's mandatory safety certificate teachings directly invalidates the "Safe Handgun Roster's" California specific manufacturer requirements, thus their punitive requirements imposed on manufacturers should be discarded (along with the hand gun roster ban/extortion scheme). It will be interesting to see how the leftist judges reconcile that the safety certificate rules mandate that the gun owner should ALWAYS ignore California's costly mandates on manufacturers.

    BHO has also tried to institute gun control through the UN. Giving foreign countries control over American citizens.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-of-american/

  5. #75
    Junior Member samwisekoi's Avatar
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    Reagan pretty much HAD to support the Brady bill. Brady took a bullet for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by motozeke View Post
    Reagan supported the Brady Bill, which the NRA opposed. I personally strongly support the right of citizens to own guns (I own one myself, have since the LA Riots in the 90s), but I would be in favor not just of background checks but of mandatory safety training in whatever class of gun you're attempting to purchase--be it handgun, rifle, or shotgun. I further strongly oppose high-capacity magazines, whose sole purpose is military in nature.

    For all the bedwetting about "they're coming for our GUNZ BOYS!" the reality is that most of us support sensible restrictions.

    And I'd love to have ONE of you step forward and tell me how Obama took your gun away. After all, he had 8 years to do so.
    2016 F6B Deluxe • 1997 H-D FLHR

  6. #76
    Senior Member Davidk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ths61 View Post
    Governor Reagan also signed the Mulford Act in 1967 which made it illegal to carry loaded firearms in public. It is also illegal to conceal carry in the Reagan library (where the "Friends of the NRA" have their meetings to discuss their alleged 2A rights versus practicing them). Reagan wasn't as pro-2A as many make him out to be (nor is the NRA, the NRA is interested in itself).

    I support standard capacity magazines (not banning them). It took over 400 rounds to take down just 2 San Bernardino terrorists. What good is 6 or 7 rounds when there are multiple bad guys, or even one for that matter. An Atlanta Georgia mother put 5 rounds of .38 into an intruder's chest at point blank range. The guy walked out of the house, got in his vehicle and drove away. What if there were 2 home invaders?

    As for training, California requires every purchaser to pay for and pass a safety test for any type of firearm purchase, pistol or long gun. They also have to pass a manipulation/operation test at the time of delivery. They also make you wait 10 days to pick up your new purchase, even if you already have hundreds of registered guns. For some reason, California thinks the 201st gun is going to do something wrong within those first 10 days of purgatory.

    California will require ammunition purchasing licensing soon. If you want to buy ammo, you will have to buy a license first. What other Constitutional Rights do you have to buy every couple of years ?

    As for BHO, he has appointed over 600 judges nationwide. 329 of the Federal judge appointments (40 percent of the entire federal judiciary) are lifetime appointments. BHO's appointees have shifted control of the appeals courts to nine of the 13 circuits to do his bidding well after he has left office. He did not have to sign any direct anti-gun bills because his judges are doing it for him.

    States like California will ramrod unconstitutional anti-2A laws through which take big $$$ (enjoyed by the "players") and years to challenge in courts and then the "hand picked" appeals courts uphold the unconstitutional anti-2A laws. Other blue states will adopt California's anti-2A practices purely because California does it, not that it makes sense or is Constitutional. BHO played the long game and has stacked the deck in his favor.

    As for the judges, many of them do not understand what they are ruling on, they are ruling based on political agendas and personal biases, not law. If I had my way, each judge MUST BE TRAINED on firearms before they can make any rulings about them. A recent attorney (from the landmark Heller versus DC case) just argued in front of the 13th Circus Court that the California's mandatory safety certificate teachings directly invalidates the "Safe Handgun Roster's" California specific manufacturer requirements, thus their punitive requirements imposed on manufacturers should be discarded (along with the hand gun roster ban/extortion scheme). It will be interesting to see how the leftist judges reconcile that the safety certificate rules mandate that the gun owner should ALWAYS ignore California's costly mandates on manufacturers.

    BHO has also tried to institute gun control through the UN. Giving foreign countries control over American citizens.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...s-of-american/
    Great post. Too bad FUDs like motozeke will never truly comprehend it, nor the folly of his words and actions.
    If you are not part of the solution, YOU are the problem.

    Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty.

  7. #77
    Senior Member Bob Penn's Avatar
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    Whenever I hear the gun control people talking, I like to ask Why our forefathers sitting down and drawing up the constitution thought that the freedom of speech was the most important amendment and the right to own and bare arms was the second most important. Don't they think that maybe the forefathers thought the second was the guarantee to be able to enforce the first.
    Whenever I hear about restrictions such as clip capacity etc. I have to ask, do you think a restriction weakened civilian population can defend against a superior armed corrupt government? Isn't that the very purpose of the constitution? Afterall our forefather had just won a revolution against a government that had been corrupted by a self serving president (opps) I mean King.

    Over the years we have had plenty of laws passed against murder and other crimes of discontent. But laws only work after the fact.

    For centuries people have been killing people. First they probably used rocks, then knives, swords, guns and lately bombs and vehicles. No amount of restrictions will stop it. There is always some kind of a tool or way to do the job. Restrictions only prevent the majority from fairly enforcing the laws.

    While I'm on my soap box. The middle east today shows millions running away from thousands! I have to ask WHY!!!

  8. #78
    Senior Member Davidk's Avatar
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    Government is the biggest threat to people.

    A Little Gun History Lesson


    In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ---------------------------
    Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated..
    ----------------------------
    Guatemala established gun control in 1964.. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
    ------------------------------
    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated..
    ------------------------------
    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million 'educated' people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and! exterminated.
    -----------------------------
    Defensele! ss people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
    ------------------------------

    It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by their own government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars. The first year results are now in:

    Australia-wide, homicides are up 3.2 percent

    Australia-wide, assaults are up 8.6 percent

    Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

    In the state of Victoria alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not, and criminals still possess their gu! ns!

    It will never happen here? I bet the Aussies said that too!

    While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.

    There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and assaults of the ELDERLY. Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in successfully ridding Australian society of guns. The Australian experience and the other historical facts above prove it.

    You won't see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws adversely affect only the law-abiding citizens.
    Take note my fellow Americans, before it's too late!

    The ! next time someone talks in favor of gun control, please remind him of this history lesson.

    With Guns.............We Are 'Citizens'.
    Without Them........We Are 'Subjects'.
    -------------------------------------

    During W.W. II the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED !

    Note: Admiral Yamamoto who crafted the attack on Pearl Harbor had attended Harvard U 1919-1921 & was Naval Attache to the U. S. 1925-28. Most of our Navy was destroyed at Pearl Harbor & our Army had been deprived of funding & was ill prepared to defend the country.

    It was reported that when asked why Japan did not follow up the Pearl Harbor attack with an invasion of the U. S. Mainland, his reply was that he had lived in! the U. S. & knew that almost all households had guns.
    -----------------------

    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.

    "Laws that forbid the carrying of arms..disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed one." - Thomas Jefferson quoting Cesare Beccaria, Criminologist in 1764. That was 230 years ago.

    The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
    If you are not part of the solution, YOU are the problem.

    Where the people fear the government you have tyranny. Where the government fears the people you have liberty.

  9. #79
    Senior Member ths61's Avatar
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    Great history lesson DavidK.

    Another history gem.

    Guess where the inspiration of the U.S. Gun Control Act of 1968 came from ?

    No, not educated personal protection, firearm and hunter safety studies, but none other than the Nazi war criminal Nuremberg, Germany Trials of 1945-46.

    Can you say history repeats itself ?



    http://jpfo.org/filegen-a-m/GCA_68.htm

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