Audio enhancement perma-grin style
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  1. #1
    Senior Member CoCoKola's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Audio enhancement perma-grin style

    .. Forgive my spelling and grammar issues, it is hard writing this on my cell phone..

    This thread details the phase II audio upgrade proof of concept.

    I've been tinkering with the audio system for longer than I'm willing to admit, but let's just say I'm very pleased with the results thus far - this is still a work in progress. Jimmytee, Morpheous, and others paved the way and I thank everyone on this forum for all your help making my bike the ultimate experience.

    I would suggest familiarizing yourself with the audio upgrade sticky that Jimmytee put together. It's a wonderful read and learning experience.

    I'm pressed for time, so I'll provide basics and update this post with more details, explanations, spl and fft based measurements, and photos when time permits. I'm looking forward to the rally to learn more from others and share what I've created.

    I was looking for a system that wasn't loud, but instead the clarity I've come to know and love working in live sound. Achieving this on a motorcycle is quite a challenge, with power, space, and the worst signal-to-noise levels to overcome. I spent a while talking to the experts in car audio, manufactures, and even some who specialize in motorcycle audio.

    I started down the path of using Arc Audio poweramps, but then I was introduced to the Audison Prima line of OEM based DSP and amp integration.

    I ended up purchasing an Audison Prima 8.9 DSP/Amp. It has amazing abilities using a Windows laptop you can tweak evening from driver delay, complete crossover setup and type, multi-parametric eq per output, de-equalization, sub and woofer boost limiting, and 6 inputs. You can bridge in pairs of the 8 outputs, giving you 4 clean 130 watt RMS at 2 ohmd plus a sub out. The DRC controller allows two setup recalls, I'm using one for parked, and the other save point when I'm riding. I paired this amp with a Audison 1D 540 watts at 2 ohms for subwoofer duty.

    I ran into gain issues that ultimately were solved with the added DRC controller that gives you incredible control over the units. The list price of the 8.9 is about 1200,
    Plus another 400 for the second amp and 200 controller. I'm running two way active setup with the following, and it is capable of what I'm after. I'm still dialing in the dsp settings.


    I paired this with Hertz mpx 165 p2 engy series {note, box says this but they are 5 1/4 not 6.5 - I'm checking facts) Getting these to fit was a challenge, but they sound amazing, they are able to push enough clean output to satisfy. They are installed in boats by pro audio. I was told only marine grade needed if you are in Salt water, although I would recommend not power washing these. (Again, note I'm almost certain I have 5 1/4 inch, not 6.5 so hang tight before purchasing)

    Another excellent choice is Focal 5 1/4s. These both require speaker spacers, and I opted to make them out of HPDE instead of abs or mdf for their stiffness and weather proofing. They also self-prime and work well with wood cutting tools. More on that later.

    Stay tuned for more.. Some teaser photos.

    1. Comparison - left to right of Hertz mpx 165, Polk 6501, j&m m]ark2, stock speakers
    Attachment 23329

    2. Speaker spacer compared to oem
    Attachment 23327

    3. Mid bass mounted with spaces and baffles
    Attachment 23330

    More to come..

    Graph of head unit oem equalization (de-equalization)
    Gain setup and challenges
    Configuration screen from 8.9
    Tweeter installation
    Wiring suggestions
    Amp install and clean wiring {in progress}
    You may not want to remove the stock amp if you don't use the controller and why.
    Phase III :subwoofer
    Considering providing speaker spacers, 8.9 Configs, parts used for mounting etc if others are interested

    Bedtime for now.. Not sure how to fix the one image missing, nor how to delete the rotated photo at the bottom. I think I found a bug on the forum, as I could edit them until getting to five photos, now new attachments can't be removed...

    Robert Van Zandt

  2. #2
    Senior Member Jimmytee's Avatar
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    Look forward to more. Will you be done in time for the Rally? You've surely invested a lot more money than I have. Really look forward to hearing your results. I think I have somewhere from $1200 to $1500 total invested in mine. That may go up if I decide to paint this winter, as I was also thinking of a couple other ideas.
    I understand the "gain " issues. I believe you ran into the same issues I was having with trying to use adapters or the low impedance/high level inputs of the amp. That was the catalyst for digging in and bypassing/removing the factory amp from the signal chain. Of course, now I don't have any of the factory audio on the bike.
    "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up"

  3. #3
    Senior Member CoCoKola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytee View Post
    Look forward to more. Will you be done in time for the Rally? You've surely invested a lot more money than I have. Really look forward to hearing your results. I think I have somewhere from $1200 to $1500 total invested in mine. That may go up if I decide to paint this winter, as I was also thinking of a couple other ideas.
    I understand the "gain " issues. I believe you ran into the same issues I was having with trying to use adapters or the low impedance/high level inputs of the amp. That was the catalyst for digging in and bypassing/removing the factory amp from the signal chain. Of course, now I don't have any of the factory audio on the bike.
    A clarion 3 way xover 79 plus arc audio amp 400 plus hertz speakers 200 to 350 for about 700 you have a similar setup but with more space used and many features lost. Running active two way plus the hertz speakers is a massive improvement over anything else i tested. The hertz running with included xover on a beefy amp would be the true budget version. I'm so impressed with the hertz - in Europe they are the competition winners in pro car audio.

    I'm excited to try the w7 8 inch when I return. I'm concerned about the 25lbs opposite to the kickstand, but I'm testing that today.

    Cheers!

  4. #4
    Senior Member Jimmytee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pressorv View Post
    A clarion 3 way xover 79 plus arc audio amp 400 plus hertz speakers 200 to 350 for about 700 you have a similar setup but with more space used and many features lost. Running active two way plus the hertz speakers is a massive improvement over anything else i tested. The hertz running with included xover on a beefy amp would be the true budget version. I'm so impressed with the hertz - in Europe they are the competition winners in pro car audio.

    I'm excited to try the w7 8 inch when I return. I'm concerned about the 25lbs opposite to the kickstand, but I'm testing that today.

    Cheers!
    I'm lost when you say many features lost. I've got way more features than anyone using the stock OEM electronics for a source.
    "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up"

  5. #5
    Senior Member CoCoKola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytee View Post
    I'm lost when you say many features lost. I've got way more features than anyone using the stock OEM electronics for a source.
    I was comparing the Audison with the dsp vs. Standard amp plus xover.
    Attachment 23338

    I'm looking forward to seeing those Bluetooth controller and system. I didn't understand do the bluetooth controllers basically give you start, stop, next, previous and volume control over your phone? I know you went with a compete replacement, which i would also like to see. Nothing limiting you there. I preferred an integrated solution.

    I measured the system, it is capable of 120dB+ without the sub included, 113+dB at rider position. Plenty of clarity. I also competed time alignment of the tweeters and mid bass drivers. The phase graph looked better than I expected.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Jimmytee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pressorv View Post
    I was comparing the Audison with the dsp vs. Standard amp plus xover.
    Attachment 23338

    I'm looking forward to seeing those Bluetooth controller and system. I didn't understand do the bluetooth controllers basically give you start, stop, next, previous and volume control over your phone? I know you went with a compete replacement, which i would also like to see. Nothing limiting you there. I preferred an integrated solution.

    I measured the system, it is capable of 120dB+ without the sub included, 113+dB at rider position. Plenty of clarity. I also competed time alignment of the tweeters and mid bass drivers. The phase graph looked better than I expected.
    I not sure you fully understand, I don't have ANY of the OEM electronics. I have a Clarion front end that has Bluetooth, Sirius XM etc.... So yeah I have full control... My sub is run through the Sub pre put of the Clarion, etc... I'm sure you have more flexibility in adjusting your sound with an active crossover though. Look forward to seeing and hearing it. Will you have the sub done for the Rally?
    "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up"

  7. #7
    Senior Member CoCoKola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmytee View Post
    .. Will you have the sub done for the Rally?
    Yes, I have the 6.5" sub working with the 1d Audison amp. Post rally I'll continue to develop a more powerful sub solution based on others' developments.

    I'm very pleased with the stock radio's sound, and that's not using the de-equalization feature, yet. The de-eq uses pink nose (sound that contains all possible frequencies at once) played via a CD {I used a laptop connected to the aux input} to map out any deficiencies of the head unit. For example, the head unit has a large dip at 100Hz which would make use of a sub amp to not perform as well as expected without 100Hz boost.

    Audison makes a less expensive 4.9 or 5.9 as well which has 4 channels or a 5th channel with ~230watts rms for a sub. They both have a pre-out for a sub amp to be added later if needed.

    It is truely the latest in top audio capability, and the unit is not much larger than the NVX MVP4 amp.

    I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's setup! Thanks again for paving the way. This setup is the best upgrade I've done to the F6B. The led headlights made a huge difference as well to making the F6B my favorite way to get somewhere, or even nowhere!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Jimmytee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pressorv View Post
    Yes, I have the 6.5" sub working with the 1d Audison amp. Post rally I'll continue to develop a more powerful sub solution based on others' developments.

    I'm very pleased with the stock radio's sound, and that's not using the de-equalization feature, yet. The de-eq uses pink nose (sound that contains all possible frequencies at once) played via a CD {I used a laptop connected to the aux input} to map out any deficiencies of the head unit. For example, the head unit has a large dip at 100Hz which would make use of a sub amp to not perform as well as expected without 100Hz boost.

    Audison makes a less expensive 4.9 or 5.9 as well which has 4 channels or a 5th channel with ~230watts rms for a sub. They both have a pre-out for a sub amp to be added later if needed.

    It is truely the latest in top audio capability, and the unit is not much larger than the NVX MVP4 amp.

    I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's setup! Thanks again for paving the way. This setup is the best upgrade I've done to the F6B. The led headlights made a huge difference as well to making the F6B my favorite way to get somewhere, or even nowhere!
    The biggest difference in sound quality from changing to the Clarion, was in clarity and stereo separation. Definitely improved stereo imaging and soundstage.
    "Go sell crazy somewhere else, we're all stocked up"

  9. #9
    Senior Member Redlinez's Avatar
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    Um, these things are sick. You guys rock for helping someone go broke.....I hate the stock stereo sound.
    https://www.facebook.com/10000659139...8471670715863/
    18 Kawasaki Z900RS black
    1989-1995 IC2- USN

  10. #10
    Senior Member CoCoKola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redlinez View Post
    Um, these things are sick. You guys rock for helping someone go broke.....I hate the stock stereo sound.
    https://www.facebook.com/10000659139...8471670715863/
    Ok, the Hertz box I had was indeed the wrong model. I have the hsk 130s. I left home so couldn't be certain. They are actually a step up from the speakers linked above, but a 5 1/4. These have won competitions.

    That video does not surprise me at all. These speakers are fing incredible. The difference from the 6501 mm are night and day, not that the 6501 are bad at all.. The interface to make changes is fun too.

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