Obamas Farewell Speech

[Bill1584]

The litmus test for a divided country is in these pages....
We have most posters either feel VERY strongly one way, or VERY strongly the other.
Very little in between.

I'm sure a professional statistician would rule this particular cross section of America as not exactly statistically representative of America for several reasons.
HOWEVER, it is a valid statistical sampling of this microcosm which IS our world here as a Group.
The division is strong and seemingly defendable by each side.

Very well said. Productive discourse is completely impossible when polite, well-intentioned discussion is replaced by divisive, offensive and oftentimes outright abusive language. This, I believe, is why we elect representatives - local, state and federal. We trust that they will engage in polite, well-intentioned, and productive discussion on our behalves. Sometimes, even that trust is sorely misplaced. That said, even as a regular lurker I do enjoy reading these interchanges.

Sure, this forum is a melting pot of sorts. Also, it seems to me that usually those with the most extreme views are inclined to mix it up publicly within any group, so the sampling may be a tad skewed. I'd like to think the entire spectrum is represented here, with the middle abstaining from these discussions. FWIW, I like to mix it up a little too sometimes, but normally just at home or in the voting booth. Or over a nice seafood lunch with friends...

[Davidk]

Very well said. Productive discourse is completely impossible when polite, well-intentioned discussion is replaced by divisive, offensive and oftentimes outright abusive language. This, I believe, is why we elect representatives - local, state and federal. We trust that they will engage in polite, well-intentioned, and productive discussion on our behalves. Sometimes, even that trust is sorely misplaced. That said, even as a regular lurker I do enjoy reading these interchanges.

Sure, this forum is a melting pot of sorts. Also, it seems to me that usually those with the most extreme views are inclined to mix it up publicly within any group, so the sampling may be a tad skewed. I'd like to think the entire spectrum is represented here, with the middle abstaining from these discussions. FWIW, I like to mix it up a little too sometimes, but normally just at home or in the voting booth. Or over a nice seafood lunch with friends...

I disagree with your assertion that this forum in a melting pot. I think you will find that motorcyclists, as a whole, are far more pro-freedom than liberal. I don't think you will find lots of Hilderbeast voters. Is that divisive, offensive and abusive??

[Bill1584]

I disagree with your assertion that this forum in a melting pot. I think you will find that motorcyclists, as a whole, are far more pro-freedom than liberal. I don't think you will find lots of Hilderbeast voters. Is that divisive, offensive and abusive??

The assertion was made, more or less, prior to my post. At least I believe it was. I know enough motorcyclists to know that plenty of them are middle of the road, politically speaking. I do not believe that 'pro-freedom 'conflicts with 'liberal'. This would be devisive. I personally find the term 'Hilderbeast' to be offensive. To me, for me. Not saying you should not use it, just saying. Calling someone delusional because you don't like what they write, even if you know better, is abusive. To me, for me. All of it detracts from whatever point you are trying to make.

[Davidk]

The assertion was made, more or less, prior to my post. At least I believe it was. I know enough motorcyclists to know that plenty of them are middle of the road, politically speaking. I do not believe that 'pro-freedom 'conflicts with 'liberal'. This would be devisive. I personally find the term 'Hilderbeast' to be offensive. To me, for me. Not saying you should not use it, just saying. Calling someone delusional because you don't like what they write, even if you know better, is abusive. To me, for me. All of it detracts from whatever point you are trying to make.

Liberals love big government which means gov dependency. That means anti-freedom

[Phantom]

The litmus test for a divided country is in these pages....
We have most posters either feel VERY strongly one way, or VERY strongly the other.
Very little in between.

I'm sure a professional statistician would rule this particular cross section of America as not exactly statistically representative of America for several reasons.
HOWEVER, it is a valid statistical sampling of this microcosm which IS our world here as a Group.
The division is strong and seemingly defendable by each side.

Our country is divided into 2 completely different ideologies.
I'll not delve - y'all know the issues.
Race, creed, & color seem to span both sides.

But right now, this country is hurting badly - whatever the cause.
Follow the money......
We are reportedly almost $20trillion in debt and that is just the debt, it doesn't count the interest due which brings the total to almost $80trillion. Yes. $80TRL needs to be paid back.
And how is that ever going to happen? On the backs of the taxpayers. And who might they be?
The jobless rate that everyone seems to quote 4-5-6% does NOT include those people who have stopped looking for work. The real number of unemployed people is near 10% of those so able.
In this table, U3 is the "official government unemployment rate - but looking at all the classifications, you can see how the numbers are massaged. And that's assuming these numbers are not "fudged" somewhere else.
https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t15.htm

The taxpayer base is dwindling...
The fiscal stress funding the "social programs" is increasing as more people are allowed into the country and are not in the tax payer base...
And? It's not showing any signs of turning soon.

America's Federal government is hurting.
America's Federal government cannot survive economically like this - our own households would have fallen apart a long time ago had we run up that kind of debt.
The Government has failed the American citizens for years, taking us off the gold standard, making Social Security part of the "General Fund", borrowing money with no plan to pay it back, and the other branches just sit there and stare while havoc is wreaked by Legislative, approved by the Administrative and condoned by the Judicial.

More coffee....
Steve

Excellent post !

[Phantom]

Some people need to understand that upsetting fellow members/brothers on this motorcycle forum is nothing short of wasted energy. ALL POLITICIANS are liars, cheats and thieves ... that's the sad truth.

Call it age ... but I have come to the realisation that no matter how disgusted I become with politicians ... I just have to focus on my life and do what's best for my family.

I vote for politicians with real world experience, I once had an argument with a college professor that criticised my way of applying my "on the field" experience towards my classroom assignments, some of my knowledge was based on real world experience not what a book said was supposed to work.

I flat out told him that the reason why he was a professor was because he would've failed in the real world as a businessman. Books smarts/ fantasies .... don't always match reality.

[Bill1584]

Some people need to understand that upsetting fellow members/brothers on this motorcycle forum is nothing short of wasted energy. ALL POLITICIANS are liars, cheats and thieves ... that's the sad truth.

Call it age ... but I have come to the realisation that no matter how disgusted I become with politicians ... I just have to focus on my life and do what's best for my family.

I vote for politicians with real world experience, I once had an argument with a college professor that criticised my way of applying my "on the field" experience towards my classroom assignments, some of my knowledge was based on real world experience not what a book said was supposed to work.

I flat out told him that the reason why he was a professor was because he would've failed in the real world as a businessman. Books smarts/ fantasies .... don't always match reality.

Dang, Phantom. Thou art wise. Surely your professor was given pause to consider his place in the universe, if not in class then later on. Too funny.

I agree for the most part with your assessment of politicians. I have only known one personally, and found him to be fair, honest, and level-headed. Maybe it is only because I agreed with him for the most part. I voted for Mr. Trump in the hope that he would be less AFFECTED by past ways of doing things, and therefore more EFFECTIVE as a leader. I have seen nothing, save a few ill conceived comments on twitter, to make me think he won't do just that. His experience is entirely from living his life in business, not politics.

Late last year, I entertained and old friend and his wife. In conversation after dinner, he began to wonder whether I was leaning right enough. So he asked if I believed there should be a massive wealth re-distribution. I told him yes, to be certain. I believe that far too few hold far too much wealth, and that the solution seemed clear to me. Simple, really. I believe each person in the country should wake up, face the provider in the mirror, and go out and make a million bucks. Or at least try. Utilize skill, hard work and perseverance. Now THIS would re-distribute a bunch of wealth. He laughed, thank goodness.

[Old Ryder]

Some people need to understand that upsetting fellow members/brothers on this motorcycle forum is nothing short of wasted energy. ALL POLITICIANS are liars, cheats and thieves ... that's the sad truth.

Call it age ... but I have come to the realisation that no matter how disgusted I become with politicians ... I just have to focus on my life and do what's best for my family.
.

No more calls, please. We have a winner!

[Old Ryder]

A foreign diplomat made the comment that the American Government will work fine until the people figure out they are being bribed with their own money.

That has happened and everybody wants their share of the pie---some want a bigger piece--others are asked to provide them with it.

Was Robin Hood a hero or a thief???????????? It depends on if he was helping you are hurting you.

I have heard the quote "Share the wealth" and I have also heard the quote "Share my work ethic".

Many years ago, politicians were called public servants and they worked for the people. The roles have now seem to have changed--people are the servants and they work for the politicians.