F6B To The Dark Side

[Teach]

I've run darkside CT in the past, on my Victory Vision. I see a couple of concerns with doing so on the F6B. First off it has a single side swing-arm which means there are TWO major factors that do NOT appear to have been considered; Wheel and Tire weight which do place load on the bearings, which in turn will lead to Final Drive failure. Now please do not take this as throwing stones but you can't just order a tire online because you like the pattern, and cast wheels are heavier, which leads me to the impression that WEIGHT was not considered.
Second, you may not ride on the sidewall, BUT when you lean the bike does in fact roll up over what I refer to as the hump. That's the last inch or two of the tire tread that wraps to the sidewall. Obviously it is more noticeable on a new tire than on one that's been ridden 10k. Nobody mentioned tire pressure that I saw?? What pressure are you running??
And finally for those considering this option.... Besides the aforementioned items to consider, consider riding habits. If you ride in all weather you are going to hydroplane a CT. Contact patch is MUCH wider than a bike tire and as such will ride ON the water rather than pushing it out thru grooves. Simple physics, weight versus contact area.
So while there are some very good reasons one might want to go with a CT, mainly longer mileage, there are other things to consider than just mileage.

Bob, I'd weight both my stock wheel and rim, and the CT w/rim to see how close you are. My guess is your setup is WAY heavier than Honda's. If so I'd consider revising to get as close or lower than the stock weight. Getting a flat is scary enough, tossing the FD bearing would be terrible (and expensive). Enjoy the ride!

[bob109]

I've run darkside CT in the past, on my Victory Vision. I see a couple of concerns with doing so on the F6B. First off it has a single side swing-arm which means there are TWO major factors that do NOT appear to have been considered; Wheel and Tire weight which do place load on the bearings, which in turn will lead to Final Drive failure. Now please do not take this as throwing stones but you can't just order a tire online because you like the pattern, and cast wheels are heavier, which leads me to the impression that WEIGHT was not considered.
Second, you may not ride on the sidewall, BUT when you lean the bike does in fact roll up over what I refer to as the hump. That's the last inch or two of the tire tread that wraps to the sidewall. Obviously it is more noticeable on a new tire than on one that's been ridden 10k. Nobody mentioned tire pressure that I saw?? What pressure are you running??
And finally for those considering this option.... Besides the aforementioned items to consider, consider riding habits. If you ride in all weather you are going to hydroplane a CT. Contact patch is MUCH wider than a bike tire and as such will ride ON the water rather than pushing it out thru grooves. Simple physics, weight versus contact area.
So while there are some very good reasons one might want to go with a CT, mainly longer mileage, there are other things to consider than just mileage.

Bob, I'd weight both my stock wheel and rim, and the CT w/rim to see how close you are. My guess is your setup is WAY heavier than Honda's. If so I'd consider revising to get as close or lower than the stock weight. Getting a flat is scary enough, tossing the FD bearing would be terrible (and expensive). Enjoy the ride!

Those issues/concerns you raise have been addressed by the numerous GL 1800 Goldwing Riders whose bikes share the identical frame, tires, wheel bearings and suspension components as our F6B's and weigh 62 lbs more. To my knowledge I can't recall anyone mentioning the failure of "swing arm bearings" or "final drives". I have however seen numerous entire swing arm assemblies with OEM wheel/tire for sale on e-bay which were removed for trike installation.

Regarding the stock OEM Stone/Wheel wight that would be 34 lbs. I didn't weigh my G-MAX/OEM Wheel prior to installation so I'm relying on, "Tire Rack", info that the G-MAX weighs 18 lbs. If the OEM wheel is 16 lbs. or a tad heavier I doubt there is any concern for swing arm or final drive bearings.

I choose to run a CT not solely based on mileage. Although it's a consideration, I'm more concerned with the overall better handling, braking, smooth ride and wet traction that the CT provides. I've had the opportunity to ride on some 150 to 250 wide MT's which were better suited for surfing when it came to wet roads

When I select a CT for my bike it's after considerable research from various Dark Side Rider and Tire Manufacturer sites. I don't "shoot from the hip" when my personal safety is on the line.

Here's some pics which compare the tire contact surfaces/sipes of the OEM Stone and the G-MAX. Not splitting hairs, the Stone has 6 each major sipes for 12" while the MAX has 12 for the same 12". Side sipes for the Stone are 7 while the MAX has 11. That fact seems to contradict your statement that a CT will hydro-plane because of a wider contact patch. There are substantially more sipes on the CT to channel water which reduces the risk to hydro-plane.

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[Mustangjake]

Bob how many miles do u have on it now ?
I am get the General Altimax HP 195/55-16 V-rated
Grand Touring All-Season
$108.00 to my door
pic from Daniel Meyer !

[bob109]

Bob how many miles do u have on it now ?
I am get the General Altimax HP 195/55-16 V-rated
Grand Touring All-Season
$108.00 to my door
pic from Daniel Meyer !

Jake:

I'm just shy of 1900 miles. Sitting here typing this and drying out! Just returned from a ride and got caught in a good downpour. The G-MAX handled perfectly, just as I expected. After hosing down the bike I'm leaving it sit in the rain. No water spots that way

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Your selection of the General Altimax HP is a good choice. Directional with lots of good sipes and heavy lugs along the edges. That tire is extremely popular with Yamaha Stratoliner Owners and is also used by numerous Goldwing GL1800 Owners. If you visit either the "Riding Dark Side Forum" or the "Goldwing Darkside Riders Forum" you'll find info on the mounting pressure and the most common "Sweet Spot Tire Pressure". You may have to tweek your tire pressure to your riding style and rider/cycle weight combination. Usually that pressure is within 1 to 2 pounds of what everyone else is using

I'll do a quick check of the databases and see what info I can find.

Bob

[bobbyf6b]

I love this idea. Since this is my first GW I have never heard of using a car tire on a bike before, except for the old Boss Hoss I rode back in the 90's. That was a large tire. It was still maneuverable although a little slow in the turns. No worse than a 250-300mm bike tire. How do you decide the car tire size and will anyone install them? I guess I'll check out the dark side forums too.

[Teach]

bob, you are going to run what you want so there is little to debate. However you cannot get around science, even though the folks on the DS forums seem to think so. Physics states the more contact, the greater the likelihood of hydroplaning, it is SCIENCE, not opinion.
I'll go one step further in pointing out that ALL of the tire manufacturers who produce tires that are routinely used by DS riders, have gone on record in stating it is NOT SAFE.
You might want to have a look at the FD parts breakdown to see how the lateral force applied by running a CT is going to affect your FD, along with the additional 4lbs minimum your setup has over stock. You ARE loading the bearings in a way they were not designed to be loaded.
Will you get away with running a DS setup? Sure, maybe, probably, not..... I sure wouldn't want to be that one fella who's FD goes, that is for sure.

I have NO desire to fight with you about this topic, BUT I also don't want to see some newb reading this, think its a great idea, and then getting him/herself killed. You went shopping on the DS forums for reinforcement for what you wanted to do, and you found it. I can point out a dozen sites that claim the Holocaust never happened, back it up with all kinds of info, BUT we both know the reality.

[bob109]

bob, you are going to run what you want so there is little to debate. However you cannot get around science, even though the folks on the DS forums seem to think so. Physics states the more contact, the greater the likelihood of hydroplaning, it is SCIENCE, not opinion.
I'll go one step further in pointing out that ALL of the tire manufacturers who produce tires that are routinely used by DS riders, have gone on record in stating it is NOT SAFE.
You might want to have a look at the FD parts breakdown to see how the lateral force applied by running a CT is going to affect your FD, along with the additional 4lbs minimum your setup has over stock. You ARE loading the bearings in a way they were not designed to be loaded.
Will you get away with running a DS setup? Sure, maybe, probably, not..... I sure wouldn't want to be that one fella who's FD goes, that is for sure.

I have NO desire to fight with you about this topic, BUT I also don't want to see some newb reading this, think its a great idea, and then getting him/herself killed. You went shopping on the DS forums for reinforcement for what you wanted to do, and you found it. I can point out a dozen sites that claim the Holocaust never happened, back it up with all kinds of info, BUT we both know the reality.

Thanks for sharing that with me!

I "personally" do not endorse the use of a CT's on anyone's motorcycle other than my own, however I like to exercise my "freedom of choice" when it comes to my motorcycle, tires, oil, filter, paint color, options, grades of gas, tire pressure etc. etc. etc.

I promise, you will be the first one I notify should I have a FD failure or other catastrophic event which resulted from my use of a CT. As this will be the my third "heavy cruiser" to wear a CT, I'm confident that my selection is "right for me".

With you sincere concerns on this matter, I do hope that you take them to the Goldwing Darksiders Forum where hundreds of riders are routinely "throwing caution to the wind" and running CT's without failures of any sort, be it a tire or mechanical in nature.

In closing I'd like to express my utmost confidence in "Mother Honda" to "overbuild" the F6B like every other machine they manufacture. I'm especially confident that the FD which is shared with the regular Wing are "bullet proof".

In the interest of "Personal Safety" I admit that the owners manual clearly states not to use a "car tire" on the F6B. That info is amongst a host of other warnings to include not towing a trailer, overloading, speeding etc.

Cordially

Bob

P.S. In regards to your statement of "loading the bearings" because of the of the additional 4lb. tire weight! Suggest you read and understand "unsprung/sprung weight".
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7...r/sprung-c.htm

[FlyinF]

Just for gee-whiz I searched the net for motorcycle failures with car tires........................could not find a one, but I sure found lots of failures with motorcycle tires, I mean serious failures with fatal injuries, totaled bikes and multiple law suits. Kinda scary reading about all those failures, many low mileage tires, many with experienced riders who check tire pressure all the time and even the morning of the day of the failure. I'm not for or against any kind of tire, I believe we are all free to do what we want with our bikes, it's your call.

[bobbyf6b]

I called a local bike tire shop today. All they do is install bike tires. You bring it in, on the bike or not, and they install it. I asked if they would install a car tire on a bike rim. "No we will not, it's not safe!" Well, alrighty then. Thanks for your OPINION. I know for a fact that it's only "unsafe" because if someone did get hurt, whether the fault of the tire or not, somebody is gonna get sued. I guess I'll have to invest in a tire mounting machine if I really want to do it.

If hydroplaning was even an issue, then why would Harley, or anyone else, put wide car tires on a TRIKE? :think:

[bob109]

You might want to have a look at the FD parts breakdown to see how the lateral force applied by running a CT is going to affect your FD, along with the additional 4lbs minimum your setup has over stock. You ARE loading the bearings in a way they were not designed to be loaded.
[/QUOTE]

I simply had to return to this post and address your comment regarding "Lateral Force" and the "loading of bearings" because of the additional "4lbs minimum over the stock wheel/tire.

After some research I was able to glean some great info on actual motorcycle tire weights from E-Tires Unlimited. I have to laugh because according to your assumption my FD bearings are in jeopardy of failure due to the increased weight of the 18lb G-MAX. Your assumption also suggest that any tire which weighs more than 15.5lbs (actual weight of the stock Bridgestone G704) is "overloading the bearings.

As a refresher the stock F6B tire/wheel weight is 34lbs. The Bridgestone 180/60-R16 G704 weighs 15.5lbs. Quick math, 34lbs minus 15.5lbs gives a wheel weight of 18.5 lbs.

Now the best part Your suggestion, that any wheel/tire combination exceeding 34 pounds total weight should not be used, has eliminated five of the six tire manufactures who have "recommended tires" for the Goldwing/F6B

Bridgestone G704 180/60 R-16.......15.5lbs

Metzeler ME880 180/60 R-16..........18lbs (same weight as G-MAX CT)

Pirelli Night Dragon 180/65-16........20lbs
180/70-16.......22lbs

Shinko SE890 180/60-R16..............20lbs

Michelin Commander II 180/65-16...21lbs

Dunlop Elite 3 180/60-HR16............22lbs

Wow! Guess Wing/F6B riders really have only one choice in a cycle tire, that being the 15.5lb Bridgestone G704

In ending, I'll leave "Lateral Force" to "front steering tires"