12 murders because of a PENCIL, simply senseless

[taxfree4]

We're not dealing with ideas, we're dealing with ideas that become actions in a specific location, like what happened in France. Israel doesn't deal with their terrorists by educating the terrorist's women, they do it by using their military to infiltrate, apprehend and incarcerate current and future terrorists. Billions of people find solace in religion, whatever that religion may be, and lead a quiet, peaceful life bothering noone so I would refrain from blaming religion or its' faithful with a broad brush. I find that people who have a problem with faith are the people who have a hard time adhering to rules. It's hard for an adulterer, thief, molester etc. to bring themselves to God because it would take them to admit their wrongdoing. That is why they have psychiatrists and therapists to explain away their problems and hold responsible everything and everyone else for their problem.



BTW looking through my old stuff I found this patch

[Old Ryder]

Actually, I did get the point. The problem is that I really love these types of debates. The best were the Harley vs Honda on the VTX boards. There was one about the Westboro Church that went on for weeks. I like to know not just what you think, but why you think that way, and I will lob a slow pitch in there to see what happens. It’s all good. One of the issues is that we cannot understand or accept when a different culture has different values. Especially in this case when they go about voicing their displeasure is such a bad and wrong way. See my first post (#18)—I have no ties with organized religion. I am a Christian, but do not want to be connected to any of them, as they have misled humanity and shaped worship to line their pockets and hurt others.

BUT CONSIDER THIS…………………………

I have done a pretty good job to establish the importance of free speech and how horrible it is when somebody’s words get substituted or mis-quoted. The founding fathers placed this right above all others. The militants are upset and ready to die because they feel/think their religious leader has been made fun of, belittled, and humiliated by Charlie. So what we are saying is that my right of free speech supersedes your right to hold something sacred and important. Isn’t that backwards? Poking fun of something that a group sees as very important and holy seems like a giant display of disrespect. I can see where they do not value your right to laugh and be entertained at the expense of their god. Is that so wrong? We all agree that their response is wrong. It is a different set of values and standards at the root. Assuming you have a God to worship, does it make you angry when comedians and magazines poke fun? If it is important to you then it should. You should not react the way they do, but you should feel something. Or do you think God likes to be mocked and laughed at?

Food for thought.

And yes, 12 murders because of a pencil is senseless. We all agree on that.

[53driver]

...I like to know not just what you think, but why you think that way...

Bingo. Been saying that for years.

OBTW: This goes for the terrorists too....

[Darren]

We're not dealing with ideas, we're dealing with ideas that become actions in a specific location, like what happened in France. Israel doesn't deal with their terrorists by educating the terrorist's women, they do it by using their military to infiltrate, apprehend and incarcerate current and future terrorists. Billions of people find solace in religion, whatever that religion may be, and lead a quiet, peaceful life bothering noone so I would refrain from blaming religion or its' faithful with a broad brush. I find that people who have a problem with faith are the people who have a hard time adhering to rules. It's hard for an adulterer, thief, molester etc. to bring themselves to God because it would take them to admit their wrongdoing. That is why they have psychiatrists and therapists to explain away their problems and hold responsible everything and everyone else for their problem.



BTW looking through my old stuff I found this patch

I'm sure your right. After all it's not like anyone who has found god has committed a crime or molested a child or required therapy. In this instance though religion is the key factor, by the way don't confuse that with belief in a god, they are not necessarily exclusive.

[taxfree4]

That wasn't the point, to accuse religion of being the culprit is like holding the gun responsible for the crime. People who do these acts use religion as a cover for their acts of terror, the microscopic few. Noone is saying that within these organized religions, whatever that is, there aren't sinners but there is a prescription, if one chooses, to correct the evil that one does, should they choose to. Religion is just a collection of beliefs so if that is in a cathedral, temple, mosque or by yourself around a tree worshiping the environmental god that is your religion or beliefs. Like the people who believe if you had educated a particular sex the massacres in France wouldn't have happened, that's the religion of Liberalism, or political correctness - take your pick, that's what got them into the mess in the first place. Or you can call it a fairy tale. I just prefer to be a part of an organized religion as opposed to an unorganized religion, I like things tidy.

[Darren]

That wasn't the point, to accuse religion of being the culprit is like holding the gun responsible for the crime. People who do these acts use religion as a cover for their acts of terror, the microscopic few. Noone is saying that within these organized religions, whatever that is, there aren't sinners but there is a prescription, if one chooses, to correct the evil that one does, should they choose to. Religion is just a collection of beliefs so if that is in a cathedral, temple, mosque or by yourself around a tree worshiping the environmental god that is your religion or beliefs. Like the people who believe if you had educated a particular sex the massacres in France wouldn't have happened, that's the religion of Liberalism, or political correctness - take your pick, that's what got them into the mess in the first place. Or you can call it a fairy tale. I just prefer to be a part of an organized religion as opposed to an unorganized religion, I like things tidy.

Unfortunately everything they have done is linked and allowed within that religion, without it the acts would not have occurred. I was actually pointing out the absurdity of the bomb them calls as this is not linked to one place but instead is linked to an idea. Where would the bombs be dropped, which country? Your going to have to find another solution for your jihad. It's a shame that those who claim to worship the same god can't get on, after all they all claim to be religions of peace.

There is no religion of liberalism and I do not see how you can blame this on that even if there was.

[taxfree4]

Where in the Quran is bombing and the senseless murder of innocent people allowed? Now who's blaming a whole population for a microscopic few? Ideas don't murder or detonate bombs people, who are twisted, do. Have you ever said "I'll kill you" to someone knowing full well you are really not going to kill them? Or maybe you were really so enraged with someone and became so enraged, for a split second, you visualized taking them out? After that split second you snap back into reality and the thought is gone, I know I have. Although judging by my exchanges with you you may want to hug someone to death. Anyway, there is a great divide between having the IDEA of doing something and ACTUALLY doing it. There is some faulty wiring up there that makes you actualize your thoughts. That is why what someone thinks doesn't bother anyone, however, what they do certainly will. Religion doesn't do that sick, warped human beings do. And it's not a jihad it's a crusade jihads are initiated offensives, Crusades are responses to those actions. As far as worshiping the same God, I don't know where you got that, if you don't believe Jesus the Christ is the way to salvation, we ain't in the same religion.

Liberalism, progressives, political correctness (6 of 1 half a dozen of the other) is most definitely a religion, as a religion is defined: "a*system*of*thought,*feeling,*and*action*that*is* shared*by*a*group*and*that*gives*the*members*an*ob ject*of devotion;*a*code*of*behavior*by*which*individuals* may*judge*the*personal*and*social*consequences*of* their*actions;*and*a*frame of*reference*by*which*individuals*may*relate*to*th eir*group*and*their*universe." And that's a encyclopedic definition and if that doesn't describe tree-hugging, Upper West Side hipsters nothing else will. It was liberal, politically correct policy that prevented the French cops from patrolling these sections as not to oppress the citizenry. That closed them off from interaction with police and further isolated them from the rest of the the community which was ripe for terrorists to go unabated. Liberalism - it fails every time it's tried.

[Darren]

if you don't believe Jesus the Christ is the way to salvation, we ain't in the same religion.


You don't know your god very well, since Judaism, Islam and Christianity all follow the Abrahamic god of the old testament.

[taxfree4]

if you don't believe Jesus the Christ is the way to salvation, we ain't in the same religion.


You don't know your god very well, since Judaism, Islam and Christianity all follow the Abrahamic god of the old testament.

You're delusional, Catholicism came out of Judaism as the Apostles were still going to temple in the infant church, however, Judaism does not recognize Jesus as a messiah but they do regard him as a great teacher that is where it ends, maybe you can tell me their stance on the Holy Ghost and the Holy Trinity altogether. That is why in temple they stress the Talmudic teachings because, unlike the Old Testament, which foretold of the coming of Christ, there are no messianic predictions because their messiah hasn't come yet. As far as Islam they hold the Blessed Mother and Jesus in high esteem but don't consider Her Immaculate not Jesus the messiah, their messenger is Muhammed. We follow the New Covenant because the Old Covenant was fulfilled, as Jesus said, by Him. That is our road map, we pay homage to the Old Covenant in our mass by way of Psalms and readings but that is where it ends. The New Covenant (Testament) it's the GPS to our salvation. Can I copyright that?