Thoughts on David Hough's danger of motorcycling

[VStarRider]

Any subscribers to MCN (Motorcycle Consumer News) here? Must be, because this is the place I first learned about the magazine.

I typically read the magazine, cover to cover.

Reading David Hough's columns on proficient motorcycling make me anxious. He states that motorcycling is 38 times more dangerous than driving a car. Are we all stupid, crazy, or both? Or is there more to this?

I once heard that 70% of snowmobile accidents involve excessive speed and/or alcohol as factors. The numbers have to be similar for motorcyclists. I know that I take it easy, only getting on the gas in wide open, vacant places. I do not drink and ride. Therefore, I feel I have substantially increased my safety just by not doing those two things.

On the local news, when there is a motorcycle accident, it seems as though they are mostly Harleys and sport bikes. I do not know the exact numbers, but Harley riders tend to be occasional riders, not logging a lot of miles. Cruiser style bikes do not handle all that gracefully, especially in the hands of an inexperienced rider. Sport bikes are meant for speed and handle great, but a lot of those guys seem to have a death wish flying around here.

I practice swerving, emergency braking, and the GW F6B handles quite a bit better than its cruiser cousins, being built on a standard bike platform. I do not attempt stunts. I just ride around. Therefore, haven't I decreased my risk even more?

When on a bike, I feel like I see so much more than in my car. I keep my head up 99% of the time. It seems as though most dangerous situations seem to be reveal themselves prior to happening. I cover the brake and let off the gas when cars are ready to pull out. I keep long following distances. I wear a hi-vis vest. I wear an armor jacket and boots and a full helmet and gloves. I do not ride when I am not feeling in top condition mentally, physically, emotionally.

Is motorcycling really that dangerous for someone like me? Or you?

[willtill]

IMHO... No more dangerous than driving a car.

Except... a motorcyclist is more physically vulnerable in an accident.

[53driver]

I do not know David Hough.....have you a link to share?

By practicing skills and getting familiar with your bike (most bike accidents occur to riders with with 1-5 years experience, but with less than 6 months on the mishap motorcycle) you and the bike learn to work together.
The bike should never 'take you by surprise' and you should never ask more than the bike can deliver.
Other vehicles should also never 'take you by surprise' as you are constantly scanning and predicting behavior - even if that behavior is classified as 'unpredictable.'

But as Willtill points out, ALL the skills in the world will not protect you from the unpredictable driver you failed to forecast as you are extremely vulnerable while on 2 wheels.

If it's the motorcyclist's fault, then so be it. Society will continue to condemn us for being hooligans.
If it's the cager's fault, the motorcyclist pays for it, and - IMH(AWI)O - is arguably also at a certain amount of fault for failure to avoid the mishap through improper scan and not keeping 'adequate' safety margins.

Keep practicing your skills.
Keep playing 'what if' - or more importantly 'WHEN!'
Have two escape routes at any given moment in time.

Cheers,
Steve

[Flhfxd]

There are two categories of motorcycle riders.....those who've crashed....and those who haven't crashed yet. All the kevlar and carbon fiber in the world will not save your ass if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Having said that, some of us do possess a 6th sense and can see / anticipate situations before they happen and proactively employ safe practices. Harley riders are generally not occasional riders (I'm one). We ride more than most so statistically are involved in more incidents. Crotch rocket riders are generally male and less than 20 years of age who have testosterone coursing through the veins. They take chances and usually ride like they are late for a date. Then there's us older dudes.....who just like to loaf along and smell the roses / coffee / fresh bread / etc. along the way. We are not safer. But we are wiser. Ride safe folks. The dummies are out there everywhere and they're trying to run us all down!

[3Chief]

There are two categories of motorcycle riders.....those who've crashed....and those who haven't crashed yet. All the kevlar and carbon fiber in the world will not save your ass if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time. Having said that, some of us do possess a 6th sense and can see / anticipate situations before they happen and proactively employ safe practices. Harley riders are generally not occasional riders (I'm one). We ride more than most so statistically are involved in more incidents. Crotch rocket riders are generally male and less than 20 years of age who have testosterone coursing through the veins. They take chances and usually ride like they are late for a date. Then there's us older dudes.....who just like to loaf along and smell the roses / coffee / fresh bread / etc. along the way. We are not safer. But we are wiser. Ride safe folks. The dummies are out there everywhere and they're trying to run us all down!

That statement tends to fan the fires here even though I agree. :icon_wink:

Many moons ago, during my apprenticeship, I was required to do a paper on safety. I chose to do it on motorcycles. At the time there were two groups that had significantly higher accident rates. Males under 24 and Males 50+. Males under 24 is generally young, dumb, full of... The normal things. The second group was due to the increase of first time or returning riders whom gave up riding years ago due to various reason and were getting back on bikes for the first time in decades. Older, bolder and better funded they have the money to go buy whatever bike and have either lost a step or didn't have it in the first place. Either groups had significantly higher accident rates. At the time women were not as numerous on bikes and statistics for women riders were not as readily available.

[Flhfxd]

That statement tends to fan the fires here even though I agree. :icon_wink:

Many moons ago, during my apprenticeship, I was required to do a paper on safety. I chose to do it on motorcycles. At the time there were two groups that had significantly higher accident rates. Males under 24 and Males 50+. Males under 24 is generally young, dumb, full of... The normal things. The second group was due to the increase of first time or returning riders whom gave up riding years ago due to various reason and were getting back on bikes for the first time in decades. Older, bolder and better funded they have the money to go buy whatever bike and have either lost a step or didn't have it in the first place. Either groups had significantly higher accident rates. At the time women were not as numerous on bikes and statistics for women riders were not as readily available.

For sure. Makes a lot of sense. Ride safe all.

[VStarRider]

I do not know David Hough.....have you a link to share?

By practicing skills and getting familiar with your bike (most bike accidents occur to riders with with 1-5 years experience, but with less than 6 months on the mishap motorcycle) you and the bike learn to work together.
The bike should never 'take you by surprise' and you should never ask more than the bike can deliver.
Other vehicles should also never 'take you by surprise' as you are constantly scanning and predicting behavior - even if that behavior is classified as 'unpredictable.'

But as Willtill points out, ALL the skills in the world will not protect you from the unpredictable driver you failed to forecast as you are extremely vulnerable while on 2 wheels.

If it's the motorcyclist's fault, then so be it. Society will continue to condemn us for being hooligans.
If it's the cager's fault, the motorcyclist pays for it, and - IMH(AWI)O - is arguably also at a certain amount of fault for failure to avoid the mishap through improper scan and not keeping 'adequate' safety margins.

Keep practicing your skills.
Keep playing 'what if' - or more importantly 'WHEN!'
Have two escape routes at any given moment in time.

Cheers,
Steve

Steve, David is a writer of several books on riding bikes and a contributor to MCN, mostly writing about safety. Most of his work is proprietary, so there is no direct link to his writing for free.

Here is his bio on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_L._Hough

[VStarRider]

That statement tends to fan the fires here even though I agree. :icon_wink:

Many moons ago, during my apprenticeship, I was required to do a paper on safety. I chose to do it on motorcycles. At the time there were two groups that had significantly higher accident rates. Males under 24 and Males 50+. Males under 24 is generally young, dumb, full of... The normal things. The second group was due to the increase of first time or returning riders whom gave up riding years ago due to various reason and were getting back on bikes for the first time in decades. Older, bolder and better funded they have the money to go buy whatever bike and have either lost a step or didn't have it in the first place. Either groups had significantly higher accident rates. At the time women were not as numerous on bikes and statistics for women riders were not as readily available.

Here is an example from last night in Rochester, NY that fits your statement:

http://www.whec.com/news/motorcycle-crash-park-ave/4467836/

Based on what has been reported, the rider hit the back of a truck. Age: 24. Bike: Yamaha R6 sport bike. Park Ave is a hip part of town, sidewalk cafes, etc.

Not rushing to judgement, but running into the back of a truck turning left indicates rider responsibility. Hope he recovers.

[Bob Penn]

In just this morning's news they are telling of a local 46 year old male rider being killed on his Harley. It seems he was cruising down the road when a lady pulled out in front of him. Naturally the news reported on the fact he was wearing a helmet. A helmet can only do so much!!

Who's at fault? It's easy to say the crazy lady but she walked away. He didn't!

Was he riding as defensively as he could have been? Didn't he see her, was he riding like he had the right of way or was he just not paying attention?

Always remember if your going to ride you may be right but the 4 wheeler wins the initial argument every time no matter what your wearing. Alway expect the other driver to do exactly what you never thought he would.

[3Chief]

In just this morning's news they are telling of a local 46 year old male rider being killed on his Harley. It seems he was cruising down the road when a lady pulled out in front of him. Naturally the news reported on the fact he was wearing a helmet. A helmet can only do so much!!

Who's at fault? It's easy to say the crazy lady but she walked away. He didn't!

Easy, it's her fault. If it had been the riders fault the news would have been all over it. Hence why they mentioned the helmet. Whether it was deliberate or accidental on her part is another story

Was he riding as defensively as he could have been? Didn't he see her, was he riding like he had the right of way or was he just not paying attention?

All it takes is a split second of inattention on either parties fault. A very good friend of mine had a car chase him into a ditch. This guy is one of the best riders I know and did everything in his power to avoid the oncoming car to no avail. The sober driver was coming back from the casino as he was heading to work at 0400. She was very tired and focused on his headlight for some reason. He lived, but had several broken bones and other injuries.


Always remember if your going to ride you may be right but the 4 wheeler wins the initial argument every time no matter what your wearing. Alway expect the other driver to do exactly what you never thought he would.

Exactly, 99% of the time you're going to loose the battle with a cage. You or your family may win the lawsuit, however the pain's probably not worth it.



Also watch out for other riders as they may not have the skill or situational awareness necessary for the ride at hand. A co-worker was coming home from work when another rider pulled up beside him. The other rider passed him within the lane and then when the cage in front of them braked the other rider swerved cutting off my co-worker who had nowhere to go but the ditch. Not only did my co-worker total his bike but he was found at fault as he was the trailing bike and his insurance paid $40k for the other riders broken finger.

Ride long, ride often, ride safe

[VStarRider]

Also watch out for other riders as they may not have the skill or situational awareness necessary for the ride at hand. A co-worker was coming home from work when another rider pulled up beside him. The other rider passed him within the lane and then when the cage in front of them braked the other rider swerved cutting off my co-worker who had nowhere to go but the ditch. Not only did my co-worker total his bike but he was found at fault as he was the trailing bike and his insurance paid $40k for the other riders broken finger.

Ride long, ride often, ride safe

Yikes. That's something I would like local media to cover more often. What happens to cagers who are at fault for causing a motorcycle fatality or severe injury...perhaps having their insurance premiums double, triple, or even get booted into the risk pool may cause people to think twice because often it is their pocketbook that gets their attention. Not to mention, garnished wages, lawsuits, losing possessions, etc.

Also, in NYS, we have a ridiculous minimum liability coverage of $25,000 per person, $50k per accident. If someone causes $500k worth of disabilities and/or medical bills to you, and they have only $25/50k insurance, you had better have supplemental uninsured/underinsured and personal injury protection on your bike policy. I carry $250/500k liability plus a $1 mil. Umbrella just in case...we have a teenager driver on the policy also, so I sleep better at night with up to $1.5 million in liability coverage.

[Bigcityd]

As a former profession motorcycle rider (Motor Cop) I have logged a hundred of thousand miles or more on two wheels. Mostly Harleys and now I have both a Harley and an F6B. I have been knocked down twice by inattentive cage drivers. I was crushed by an 18 Wheeler who swore I came out of nowhere. I have even hit a bear on the BRP. Two of my crashes resulted in hospital visits with surgery to repair busted legs. I wear an helmet. I was knocked down and dragged for 300 yards by a lovely old lady in 60's era Mercedes who had to be told by a taxi driver that she was dragging a motor cop by her back bumper. My helmet was sanded flat on the bottom. It was the difference between a loss of pride and a visit to the morgue. In my experience, and the stats back up my anecdotal observations, the problem is 76% of others cause the motorcyclist crash. The other 34% is the bike's fault. The reason they make the news is even a 40 mile per hour crash will kill a biker. That speed of collision between two cages might set off the airbags. If you are attentive and ride defensive you have a better chance to avoid the crash. I was cut off twice yesterday when I was out for a 200 mile ride. That's an avoided collision every 100 miles. The short version of all of this is that statistically, if you put enough miles down, you'll crash. The collision rate in cars isn't really any different. The difference is you're likely to get hurt on you bike. Live life today.

[willtill]

Headlight Modulators. They REALLY help. I won't ride a bike without them.

[Redlinez]

My observations of other drivers when in my car or on my bike is that the majority suck and drive like they are the only ones on the road. I see people running stop signs and red lights every single day. Laws apply less each and every day and we all know why. People are more easily distracted by technology more than ever. People can not safely talk on a cell phone and drive at the same time. Everyone is in a rush unless you are. I watch people not look when they pull out and change lanes. How many people do you know look at something without turning their head on a regular basis?
When I ride, I ride like no one knows I'm there or like I'm carrying the football on a field. I used to ride with guys on sportbikes and we decimated the speed limit on curvy backroads every time we rode. After 4 months of that, I felt I played my luck enough and sold the bike and went "dormant" for a few years. That was 2009. They still ride like that, only faster and do track days. Several have wrecked, broken bones, had surgery. One passed away while riding at speed. Adrenaline will make you do stupid things, we as men are prone to it. Those guys are one helluva group to hang with, they would do anything for one another. I can say they are like a brotherhood. I just choose to take rides with my wife at a "spirited" pace.

[53driver]

Headlight Modulators. They REALLY help. I won't ride a bike without them.

Just finished my install....had 'em out twice.
People diving out of the way.
Very cool....

Cheers,
Steve

[willtill]

Just finished my install....had 'em out twice.
People diving out of the way.
Very cool....

Cheers,
Steve

:yes: :yes:

Steve, soon you will realize a VERY perceptible difference; of almost a lack of people no longer pulling out in front of you, as compared when you were not running them. The ones that may pull out in front of you; do it on purpose. The other's that used to because they did not see you previously; will no longer do it. That is how noticeable you are now.

[Retired Army]

Look at it this way, a airplane has to be safely landed on the ground to put a foot on it. A motorcycle is always on the ground.

[Old Ryder]

I can't begin to count the accidents I had on my bicycles over the years. Lots of skin and flesh on the asphalt in middle Georgia.

Bought my first motor bike in 1977. Had my first crash in 1977 (my fault for not paying attention) My last crash was on the same day as my first. I learned a lot about respect and fear and paid far less than many. I live in a county that has 15K people in it and 5 stop lights---TOTAL! I ride to Raleigh ever so often and I am never comfortable---in the city or the 4 lane getting there.

I am thoroughly convinced that the most dangerous thing on the road today is the cell phone. Riding a bike is a lot more dangerous that riding in a car. But riding in a car is a lot more dangerous than sitting on the couch watching TV but people do that, too.

I'll take my chances----EYES WIDE OPEN!

As I read on a poster a long time ago: Everybody crashes---some ride again. Some don't. Some can't.

Be safe out there!

[VStarRider]

I can't begin to count the accidents I had on my bicycles over the years. Lots of skin and flesh on the asphalt in middle Georgia.

Bought my first motor bike in 1977. Had my first crash in 1977 (my fault for not paying attention) My last crash was on the same day as my first. I learned a lot about respect and fear and paid far less than many. I live in a county that has 15K people in it and 5 stop lights---TOTAL! I ride to Raleigh ever so often and I am never comfortable---in the city or the 4 lane getting there.

I am thoroughly convinced that the most dangerous thing on the road today is the cell phone. Riding a bike is a lot more dangerous that riding in a car. But riding in a car is a lot more dangerous than sitting on the couch watching TV but people do that, too.

I'll take my chances----EYES WIDE OPEN!

As I read on a poster a long time ago: Everybody crashes---some ride again. Some don't. Some can't.

Be safe out there!

I like your post.

As for what you wrote in red, that reminded me of a county in New York with demographics that may shock those who think New York = New York City and people everywhere. Hamilton County, NY, in the heart of the Adirondack Mountains, has a population of 5,000 and ZERO traffic lights total. It has the lowest population density of any county east of the Mississippi. It is not a small county either, being larger than 1,000 square miles (a little smaller than Rhode Island).

As for your light blue comment, that reminds of a guy I know who got up to pee at 3am, slipped on the bathroom floor, hit his arthritic neck on the vanity countertop, and damaged his spinal cord. This paralyzed him from the neck down. He is now in a wheelchair. Why not face some risk with wisdom to mitigate a lot of it, than sit around in fear?

I must remind myself to not be afraid to live and do the things I enjoy. I would rather die while living than die while dying.

[wjduke]

Yikes. That's something I would like local media to cover more often. What happens to cagers who are at fault for causing a motorcycle fatality or severe injury...perhaps having their insurance premiums double, triple, or even get booted into the risk pool may cause people to think twice because often it is their pocketbook that gets their attention. Not to mention, garnished wages, lawsuits, losing possessions, etc.

Also, in NYS, we have a ridiculous minimum liability coverage of $25,000 per person, $50k per accident. If someone causes $500k worth of disabilities and/or medical bills to you, and they have only $25/50k insurance, you had better have supplemental uninsured/underinsured and personal injury protection on your bike policy. I carry $250/500k liability plus a $1 mil. Umbrella just in case...we have a teenager driver on the policy also, so I sleep better at night with up to $1.5 million in liability coverage.

Mass is 20/40....ask me how I found out.

[DTOM]

I like your post.

As for what you wrote in red, that reminded me of a county in New York with demographics that may shock those who think New York = New York City and people everywhere. Hamilton County, NY, in the heart of the Adirondack Mountains, has a population of 5,000 and ZERO traffic lights total. It has the lowest population density of any county east of the Mississippi. It is not a small county either, being larger than 1,000 square miles (a little smaller than Rhode Island).

As for your light blue comment, that reminds of a guy I know who got up to pee at 3am, slipped on the bathroom floor, hit his arthritic neck on the vanity countertop, and damaged his spinal cord. This paralyzed him from the neck down. He is now in a wheelchair. Why not face some risk with wisdom to mitigate a lot of it, than sit around in fear?

I must remind myself to not be afraid to live and do the things I enjoy. I would rather die while living than die while dying.

Amen brother!

[tiltingf6b]

I can't begin to count the accidents I had on my bicycles over the years. Lots of skin and flesh on the asphalt in middle Georgia.

Bought my first motor bike in 1977. Had my first crash in 1977 (my fault for not paying attention) My last crash was on the same day as my first. I learned a lot about respect and fear and paid far less than many. I live in a county that has 15K people in it and 5 stop lights---TOTAL! I ride to Raleigh ever so often and I am never comfortable---in the city or the 4 lane getting there.

I am thoroughly convinced that the most dangerous thing on the road today is the cell phone. Riding a bike is a lot more dangerous that riding in a car. But riding in a car is a lot more dangerous than sitting on the couch watching TV but people do that, too.

I'll take my chances----EYES WIDE OPEN!

As I read on a poster a long time ago: Everybody crashes---some ride again. Some don't. Some can't.

Be safe out there!

:yes: