Crypto Currency Experts ?

[Phantom]

:shock:
Any experts on this forum that can explain this HOT new frenzy.
Thanks in advance.

I've already been on several websites

What in the heck is mining, a crypto wallet, does the money earned become "Capital Gains" when this is not being earned through a US financial institution nor recognized as a legitimate currency?

[ths61]

https://otterlover58.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/popping_balloon.png

P.S.

Like the siggy pict !!!

[Walcrow]

Michael Dell of Dell Computers takes Bitcoins for payment. Provident Metals here in Dallas takes Bitcoin for any of their products, i.e. Monster Boxes of Silver Eagles, Gold, etc. A Bitcoin was "worth" nothing about 8 years ago. Today they are at $11,000 per coin and the projection is that they will hit $20,000 to possibly $30,000 by spring. There are only 21,000,000 that will ever be "available" and 16,714,200 have been mined, or have been produced by miners to be bought, sold, or held. Miners are awarded 12 Bitcoins when they solve complicated algorithms pertaining to the blocks of transactions on the blockchain. There are huge buildings around the world in China, Iceland,etc. loaded with thousands of computers that are mining to solve those algorithms and be awarded those 12 coins now worth over $112,000 today. Once a miner gets awarded those 12, the algorithms get harder to solve. Bitcoins are not a fiat currency like our dollars. They are worth whatever someone is willing to "pay". Homes, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc. have all been purchased over the years with Bitcoins with more and more businesses accepting Bitcoin. It's a peer to peer arrangement that leaves the bankers out of the loop. There are rumors that the Fed might be working on a Fedcoin as the popularity of Bitcoin grows. Many scoff at Bitcoin and predict that they will someday end up worth zero. That may well be true, but the Monster Boxes of silver in my safe will most likely NEVER be worth zero........and they were purchased with BITCOINS :yikes: So as the Fed sits in D.C. and manipulates and prints money like toilet paper, I'm sticking with the finite number of Bitcoins that will ever be mined.......and there aren't many left. IF my Honda dealer would get on board and take 'em, I'd be buying the new Wing next spring with about 2 of them, and that's today. Probably one coin will buy one by next March or April.

P.S. A wallet is basically a secure OFFLINE way to keep Bitcoins. Exchanges like Coinbase can hold them, but that's like keeping your gold and silver in a safe deposit box at the bank. Happy that I wasn't in Greece when they locked the banks up a while back and you couldn't get anything out that you thought was yours. Bitcoins should always be held on your person under what is called a "private key". When you have that private key, YOU and only YOU own those Bitcoins, not some exchange. You don't keep gold in someone else's safe. Same with Bitcoin. Bitcoins are complicated to understand but easy to purchase. It's best to find a mentor who knows what and how it's done and has been in it for some time. If they have for years, and bought them when they were $1 or even $100, they most likely have retired by now.

[jmdaniel]

Never invest in a business you cannot understand. - Warren Buffet

[willtill]

Never invest in a business you cannot understand. - Warren Buffet

+1

[Davidk]

Never invest in a business you cannot understand. - Warren Buffet

This. Personally, I have not trust in it at all. I think it can be devalued just as fast as it inflated. Wasn't there some large bitcoin theft hack in the news a few months ago?

[Walcrow]

This. Personally, I have not trust in it at all. I think it can be devalued just as fast as it inflated. Wasn't there some large bitcoin theft hack in the news a few months ago?

Yes, there was......and your point?

[Davidk]

Yes, there was......and your point?

Really? I thought my two points were quite clear

[Walcrow]

Yes it can be devalued just like our fiat currency and yes, it has been confiscated just like robbing a bank full of cash. One Bitcoin today is worth about 11,000 of your dollars. Would you like to debate VALUE?

[Davidk]

Yes it can be devalued just like our fiat currency and yes, it has been confiscated just like robbing a bank full of cash. One Bitcoin today is worth about 11,000 of your dollars. Would you like to debate VALUE?


A few more hacks and lets see its value

Tell me about the value when that $11,000 coin is worth $1 or is stolen by hackers.

Sounds like a ponzi scheme or pyramid where only early “investors “ win

I’m starting my own currency, DavCoin. Just need to find a couple million people to buy a coin from me for just a dollar.

[Walcrow]

Then do it Dave, and at the same time, quit belching your idiocy about something you know NOTHING about.........FINI :039:

[druggr]

Michael Dell of Dell Computers takes Bitcoins for payment. Provident Metals here in Dallas takes Bitcoin for any of their products, i.e. Monster Boxes of Silver Eagles, Gold, etc. A Bitcoin was "worth" nothing about 8 years ago. Today they are at $11,000 per coin and the projection is that they will hit $20,000 to possibly $30,000 by spring. There are only 21,000,000 that will ever be "available" and 16,714,200 have been mined, or have been produced by miners to be bought, sold, or held. Miners are awarded 12 Bitcoins when they solve complicated algorithms pertaining to the blocks of transactions on the blockchain. There are huge buildings around the world in China, Iceland,etc. loaded with thousands of computers that are mining to solve those algorithms and be awarded those 12 coins now worth over $112,000 today. Once a miner gets awarded those 12, the algorithms get harder to solve. Bitcoins are not a fiat currency like our dollars. They are worth whatever someone is willing to "pay". Homes, Ferrari's, Lambo's, etc. have all been purchased over the years with Bitcoins with more and more businesses accepting Bitcoin. It's a peer to peer arrangement that leaves the bankers out of the loop. There are rumors that the Fed might be working on a Fedcoin as the popularity of Bitcoin grows. Many scoff at Bitcoin and predict that they will someday end up worth zero. That may well be true, but the Monster Boxes of silver in my safe will most likely NEVER be worth zero........and they were purchased with BITCOINS :yikes: So as the Fed sits in D.C. and manipulates and prints money like toilet paper, I'm sticking with the finite number of Bitcoins that will ever be mined.......and there aren't many left. IF my Honda dealer would get on board and take 'em, I'd be buying the new Wing next spring with about 2 of them, and that's today. Probably one coin will buy one by next March or April.

P.S. A wallet is basically a secure OFFLINE way to keep Bitcoins. Exchanges like Coinbase can hold them, but that's like keeping your gold and silver in a safe deposit box at the bank. Happy that I wasn't in Greece when they locked the banks up a while back and you couldn't get anything out that you thought was yours. Bitcoins should always be held on your person under what is called a "private key". When you have that private key, YOU and only YOU own those Bitcoins, not some exchange. You don't keep gold in someone else's safe. Same with Bitcoin. Bitcoins are complicated to understand but easy to purchase. It's best to find a mentor who knows what and how it's done and has been in it for some time. If they have for years, and bought them when they were $1 or even $100, they most likely have retired by now.

Thank you ... I never knew anything about them or that they even existed. Now I want a bunch of them, but can't even afford one :( When did Bitcoins start ???

[98valk]

Sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. Great for those who got in early, and bad for those who get in late. It will be interesting to watch this unfold ... :popcorn:

[Walcrow]

Thank you ... I never knew anything about them or that they even existed. Now I want a bunch of them, but can't even afford one :( When did Bitcoins start ???

They became available around 7 years ago. Since that initial period, $100 then would have a VALUE of $140,000,000.00 today. Here's an interesting Facebook post by Andrew Athan..........

Andrew Athan
December 1 at 10:46pm ·

I note today that the CFTC has approved bitcoin futures to start trading, and that the date is currently set at Dec 18 (other sources state Dec 11). This is a watershed moment for bitcoin and bitcoin exchanges. Do not be asleep at the wheel on the first day of futures trading, or for the days following. Monitor market activity closely, and protect your investment according to your informed opinion, and try to avoid making your trading decisions based purely on emotion or “what everyone else is doing.� That being said, if you don’t feel qualified to make a trading decision for yourself, you may want to follow the advice of someone who is well informed, and that you trust (and you might also want to ask yourself if you’re just betting on the roulette).

Commencement of trading in bitcoin futures means exposure to the movements in bitcoin’s price will be made available to the vast hedge fund industry (with over $3T of assets under management), without trading bitcoin directly on the largely problematic, understaffed, underpowered bitcoin exchanges. Instead, these fund managers will be able to trade based on the cryptocurrency’s price fluctuations directly on the CME and other exchanges (such as NASDAQ). That’s not to say all of that hedge fund money will go into trading bitcoin futures, but some of it will.

The contracts are USD denominated and paid out according to the “BRR� (Bitcoin Reference Rate: http://www.cmegroup.com/tradi…/cf-bitcoin-reference-rate.htm). This BRR is essentially “the price of bitcoin according to CME,� and will be calculated on the basis of data provided by a few bitcoin exchanges. Namely, Bitstamp, GDAX, itBit and Kraken. You can draw your own conclusions about how the CME feels about those exchanges relative to others in the ecosystem.

The contracts will initially carry a 35% margin rate, but speculation is that this rate may go as low as 10% at some point. This means futures contracts may be purchased for between 3x and 10x the value of your deposits at your broker. In other words, the bitcoin hedge funds that currently hold about $2-3B in assets, will be able to leverage that at least 3x, to bet on the movement of bitcoin using futures. However, I am uncertain as to whether they’ll be able to do that without actually converting their bitcoin holdings into USD first.

The contracts will be for 5 bitcoin at a time, and priced at $5 increments. This means that you can’t make bets on less than a $5 movement in the price of bitcoin, and it also means that to buy a single contract, you need ~$50k, or enough deposits to meet the 35% margin requirement (i.e., ~35% of $50k). The price fluctuation of the contracts at CME will be limited to 20% per day.

You’re probably wondering how trading futures at the CME matters to trading bitcoin on existing exchanges. The answer is that, via the activity of arbitragers, at least long term, after a period of volatility, the prices at CME and exchanges should be in direct correlation.

Take a quick look at https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/#markets. You’ll see about $7B of bitcoin was traded today. NASDAQ traded 2.4B shares valued at $133B. NYSE appears to be doing about half that. Futures markets and FX markets are ~5x and ~50x larger, respectively. Take away: Bitcoin exchanges are small.

A gorilla is about to enter the room.

[Walcrow]

Sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. Great for those who got in early, and bad for those who get in late. It will be interesting to watch this unfold ... :popcorn:

98........

In June of 1997, Amazon was $1.50 per share. Today it closed at $1134.00. That's a 66,600% return. Is Amazon a pyramid scheme? I think not. Many got hammered in 2008 in the market. Is Wall Street a pyramid scheme? Again, I think not. Bitcoins are not for everyone, I agree. But for those who have purchased them, and continue to purchase them, and one can buy 1/1000 of a Bitcoin today, have seen and will see returns that will cause them to curse the day they didn't buy even a sliver of a Bitcoin. In May of 1982, Apple was .20 cents per share. Wish I'd bought 10,000 shares back then. Today it's worth $1,670,000.00. The majority of humanity has no clue what a Bitcoin is and the analogy of Bitcoin to Amazon and Apple is apparent. Those who wish to jump on the BTC train will be pleased they did. Some see Bitcoins as trash, others like myself see the treasure. To each their own. FYI, tomorrow, time allowing, I'll probably take 1 Bitcoin and buy 8 American Gold Eagles @ $1345 per Eagle......and that's NOT a pyramid scheme. :039:

[98valk]

98........

In June of 1997, Amazon was $1.50 per share. Today it closed at $1134.00. That's a 66,600% return. Is Amazon a pyramid scheme? I think not. Many got hammered in 2008 in the market. Is Wall Street a pyramid scheme? Again, I think not. Bitcoins are not for everyone, I agree. But for those who have purchased them, and continue to purchase them, and one can buy 1/1000 of a Bitcoin today, have seen and will see returns that will cause them to curse the day they didn't buy even a sliver of a Bitcoin. In May of 1982, Apple was .20 cents per share. Wish I'd bought 10,000 shares back then. Today it's worth $1,670,000.00. The majority of humanity has no clue what a Bitcoin is and the analogy of Bitcoin to Amazon and Apple is apparent. Those who wish to jump on the BTC train will be pleased they did. Some see Bitcoins as trash, others like myself see the treasure. To each their own. FYI, tomorrow, time allowing, I'll probably take 1 Bitcoin and buy 8 American Gold Eagles @ $1345 per Eagle......and that's NOT a pyramid scheme. :039:

Yeah, Wall Street is somewhat of a pyramid scheme, in that prices are manipulated. Suckers are sought for and found. Still, not the same as bitcoin. And I am sure that you know that already.

[Pumper]

98........

In June of 1997, Amazon was $1.50 per share. Today it closed at $1134.00. That's a 66,600% return. Is Amazon a pyramid scheme? I think not. Many got hammered in 2008 in the market. Is Wall Street a pyramid scheme? Again, I think not. Bitcoins are not for everyone, I agree. But for those who have purchased them, and continue to purchase them, and one can buy 1/1000 of a Bitcoin today, have seen and will see returns that will cause them to curse the day they didn't buy even a sliver of a Bitcoin. In May of 1982, Apple was .20 cents per share. Wish I'd bought 10,000 shares back then. Today it's worth $1,670,000.00. The majority of humanity has no clue what a Bitcoin is and the analogy of Bitcoin to Amazon and Apple is apparent. Those who wish to jump on the BTC train will be pleased they did. Some see Bitcoins as trash, others like myself see the treasure. To each their own. FYI, tomorrow, time allowing, I'll probably take 1 Bitcoin and buy 8 American Gold Eagles @ $1345 per Eagle......and that's NOT a pyramid scheme. :039:

Rather interesting stuff, but what does this have to do with F6b's?
I thought this was a motorcycle forum...not a financial debate

Pumper

[Phantom]

YIKES,


$15,4000

Where is the ceiling ?

[Walcrow]

Nope. Try $16,687 as of 10:51am CST. There is no ceiling since there will only be 21,000,000 issued coins. Finite supply, unlimited demand. Old predictions are now being tossed aside as to the price. What would a gallon of water go for if there were only 21,000,000 gallons available for the planet, forever. What would that ceiling price be?

[Davidk]

Another hack. http://money.cnn.com/2017/12/07/technology/nicehash-bitcoin-theft-hacking/index.html

[F6Bster]

This thread needs to be in the Off-Topic Forum.

[Walcrow]

It was started by the ADMINISTRATOR. Take it up with him.

[F6Bster]

Still doesn’t mean it’s in the right place. I generally don’t read off-topic stuff as that’s not the reason I come to this forum. Oil is contentious enough for me!!!!


It was started by the ADMINISTRATOR. Take it up with him.

[Phantom]

Still doesn’t mean it’s in the right place. I generally don’t read off-topic stuff as that’s not the reason I come to this forum. Oil is contentious enough for me!!!!


The reason why I posted it in the General section was exactly for the reason that you stated that you don't generally visit the off topic section.
Since this is a topic that many are not aware of I posted it here because so few visit the off topic section.
I just wanted the maximum exposure. I have had my questions answered, Thank you all.
I will move this to the off topic section, sorry if this inquiry offended anyone. Just seeking knowledge from as many people as possible.:cheers:

[F6Bster]

Thanks Tony!!!!

[jm21ddd15]

Bit Coins, Good! Don't trust this program? Well, do you trust banks and the "normal" financial system? I think Wall Street is crooked. JMO

[willtill]

Stock up on something much more in the coming future. Ammunition and toilet paper :shhh:

This is what bothers me about investing in Bitcoin. I took a quote from Warren Buffet:

" Bitcoin is not backed by a company's earnings, or the strength of a government and rule of law. There's also no interest or dividends".

[BIGLRY]

https://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2016/08/04/78m-lost-bitcoin-breach/



https://techtalk.pcpitstop.com/2017/12/04/bitcoin-value-skyrocketed-invest/?bitcoin=&ad_id=505330&share-ad-id=1

Humm... I thought about them, but decided it was not for me. "They’re a digital currency. Therefore, there is nothing tangible about them. They have to be stored in a digital wallet. These “wallets” vary based on the type of device used (computer, phone, tablet, external hardwallet, etc.), and come with potential risks." a risk I personaly did not want to take. "Ultimately, it’s a risk. But aren’t all investments? Bitcoin value changes daily, similar to the stock market.

The second risk are the hackers. Cyber criminals know the value of one bitcoin. They know its value has skyrocketed. They also know this is a digital currency that is often kept on one’s devices. How convenient — hackers know how to hack into devices! Once the bitcoin is hacked, it’s gone.

The last risk is losing the bitcoin because of hardware failures. If your hard drive crashes and the data isn’t recoverable — neither is your bitcoin. Ouch! Or if you store your bitcoin on an external storage device and lose that device, it’s gone. That would be a hard pill to swallow.

Are you okay with those odds?"

[Broken Hand]

BTC (bitcoin) is a strange concept to wrap one’s mind around. There are crypto currencies popping up all over now. I took a dive into IOTA which is a currency for the Internet of Things. Microsoft, Bosch, Volkswagen, Cisco and dozen more companies have jumped on that technology. It’s money I’m willing to lose, but the speculation can’t be denied.

BTC is like the U.S. dollar reserve for trading barrels of oil. Every other crypto is valued against BTC. BTC will be around a long time, but cashing it out is when the government will get you.
It’s too hard at this point to strictly live on BTC. Still need cash. I don’t see BTC going to zero, but I can this crypto bubble pop when new technology in the future supplants it.

America seems to be inching toward a cashless society, still decades away, I think.

[MisterB]

Proof that bitcoin and cryptocurrency has "arrived".

https://www.theonion.com/bitcoin-plunge-reveals-possible-vulnerabilities-in-craz-1821134169
https://www.theonion.com/bitcoin-on-path-to-functioning-just-like-real-currency-1821128169

[BIGLRY]

Proof that bitcoin and cryptocurrency has "arrived".

https://www.theonion.com/bitcoin-plunge-reveals-possible-vulnerabilities-in-craz-1821134169
https://www.theonion.com/bitcoin-on-path-to-functioning-just-like-real-currency-1821128169

Humm...
"NEW YORK—Saying it may account for the precipitous drop in the digital currency, financial experts on Friday told reporters that the recent plunge in bitcoin value could reveal vulnerabilities in crazy imaginary internet money. “This should serve as a clear indicator of how susceptible weird invisible money that only exists online can be to sudden fluctuations in the market,” said economist Bernard Gregerson, explaining that the 18 percent decline in bitcoin’s value might be a predictor of more drastic fluctuations to come in the price of bizarre make-believe cryptocurrency that has no reality in the physical realm. “This volatility may be connected to the fact that we’re dealing with a pile of ones and zeros with no attachment to any bank or government and calling it legal tender, but we can’t say for certain.” At press time, bitcoin had recouped some of its losses, which experts attributed to the fact that even ghost money best suited for anonymously buying heroin could sometimes rebound."


Yea...I love that line "ghost money best suited for anonymously buying heroin":icon_lol:

[Phantom]

Proof that bitcoin and cryptocurrency has "arrived".

https://www.theonion.com/bitcoin-plunge-reveals-possible-vulnerabilities-in-craz-1821134169
https://www.theonion.com/bitcoin-on-path-to-functioning-just-like-real-currency-1821128169

The ONION is a Satirical website, over the years it has created some funny reports solely for entertainment.:icon_lol:

[BIGLRY]

The ONION is a Satirical website, over the years it has created some funny reports solely for entertainment.:icon_lol:
https://cdn0.iconfinder.com/data/icons/is_google_plus_one_icons/256/google_plus_one_-plus-1_button.png
Yea they do some funny stuff, always good for a laugh.

[MisterB]

The ONION is a Satirical website, over the years it has created some funny reports solely for entertainment.:icon_lol:
Yep, my point is that a certain level of notoriety is required before you will appear in the Onion or MAD.
Regarding Bitcoin, when it started out it seemed like it was going to be some cool, counter-culture, underground way of making payments off the grid or bypassing traditional methods.
It doesn't look like that any more.

[willtill]

Bitcoin mining 101 :shhh:

https://www.bitcoinmining.com/

[Davidk]

Now you have gone and done it! This is why we can't have nice things

North Korea is hacking bitcoin exchanges as currency value soars, expert says

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2017/12/10/north-korea-is-hacking-bitcoin-exchanges-as-currency-value-soars-expert-says.html

[Davidk]

The bitcoin whales: 1,000 people who own 40 percent of the market

On Nov. 12, someone moved almost 25,000 bitcoins, worth about $159 million at the time, to an online exchange. The news soon rippled through online forums, with bitcoin traders arguing about whether it meant the owner was about to sell the digital currency. Holders of large amounts of bitcoin are often known as whales. And they’re becoming a worry for investors. They can send prices plummeting by selling even a portion of their holdings. And those sales are more probable now that the cryptocurrency is up nearly twelvefold from the beginning of the year.
About 40 percent of bitcoin is held by perhaps 1,000 users; at current prices, each may want to sell about half of his or her holdings, says Aaron Brown, former managing director and head of financial markets research at AQR Capital Management. (Brown is a contributor to the Bloomberg Prophets online column.) What’s more, the whales can coordinate their moves or preview them to a select few. Many of the large owners have known one another for years and stuck by bitcoin through the early days when it was derided, and they can potentially band together to tank or prop up the market.
“I think there are a few hundred guys,� says Kyle Samani, managing partner at Multicoin Capital. “They all probably can call each other, and they probably have.� One reason to think so: At least some kinds of information sharing are legal, says Gary Ross, a securities lawyer at Ross & Shulga. Because bitcoin is a digital currency and not a security, he says, there’s no prohibition against a trade in which a group agrees to buy enough to push the price up and then cashes out in minutes.

Regulators have been slow to catch up with cryptocurrency trading, so many of the rules are still murky. If traders not only pushed the price up but also went online to spread rumors, that might count as fraud. Bittrex, a digital currency exchange, recently wrote to its users warning that their accounts could be suspended if they banded together into “pump groups� aimed at manipulating prices. The law might also be different for other digital coins. Depending on the details of how they are structured and how investors expect to make money from them, some may count as currencies, according to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Asked about whether large holders could move in concert, Roger Ver, a well-known early bitcoin investor, said in an email: “I suspect that is likely true, and people should be able to do whatever they want with their own money. I’ve personally never had time for things like that though.�
“As in any asset class, large individual holders and large institutional holders can and do collude to manipulate price,� Ari Paul, co-founder of BlockTower Capital and a former portfolio manager of the University of Chicago endowment, wrote in an electronic message. “In cryptocurrency, such manipulation is extreme because of the youth of these markets and the speculative nature of the assets.�

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/the-bitcoin-whales-1000-people-who-own-40-percent-of-the-market/ar-BBGo6Pq?li=BBnbfcN&ocid=thanksDHP

[Walcrow]

Spend a few minutes listening to this billionaire.......he covers both sides of the argument for and against Bitcoin.

https://youtu.be/DozrRY2NENU

[opas ride]

Anything goes in today's crazed world and Bitcoin is one of those deals....I suppose some will get rich, others will lose their shirts, but for me and my little world I will stay away from "get rich schemes" as I desire not to run the risk as I get older...I have a few small investments which keep me going and I have no plans to change to something this un-predictable....I guess it is like the lottery, if you don't play the thing you will never win, or lose!!!.....JMHO and ride safe..

[Phantom]

Well Bitcoin is about the same as it was 2 weeks ago around $16,500. It spiked to $19,800 and dropped to $14,800 along the way.

This madness, it will drive someone to drink :tequila:

[Walcrow]

Go to this site, then click on any crypto currency to look at it's chart. Somewhat beats the crap out of the stock market....and when the DOW bubble bursts again, hold onto your DEPENDS and your significant other's panty hose when the top 20 or so cryptocurrencies take off like a rocket. Do you think Michael Dell was stupid for taking one Bitcoin not too long ago for a computer when they were $1,000? Today it's $16,700. Something tells me Michael's digital wallet is getting rather thick. When they hit $25,000, I'll cash one in for a new Gold Wing to go with my B........and it'll happen before the Cortez trip next August. On August 25th, 2016, Bitcoin was $573.63. My guess is this time next year, they might be hitting $40,000 to $60,000, possibly higher. If they hit zero, I'll have the Wing, if they go higher, I'll buy one in each color.

https://coinmarketcap.com/