PDA

View Full Version : 2018 Steering Slop/Loose Tie Rod



Walcrow
02-18-2018, 10:43 PM
Just found this on YouTube. Looks like Max at Traxxion Dynamics has some issues with the new Wing. Check out his multiple videos dealing with the new boy on the block. If I was tempted to wait on getting a new 2018 to get the bugs worked out, Max might have convinced me. That rear rod ain't looking good to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYhrQYdPXsY

And another one with a very loose steering head bearing............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qujrjxXKJdI

olegoat345
02-18-2018, 11:13 PM
Having worked on older steering w/ tie rod ends, they all have a lot of play, new out of the box & they're steering a 4 to 5,000# auto. I've seen rip off mechanics tell people their front end was shot because of the play. I know little about the new GW steering and I may be wrong but I wouldn't be concerned about tie rod play. That's my 2 cents worth.

Zteve
02-19-2018, 07:41 AM
Just found this on YouTube. Looks like Max at Traxxion Dynamics has some issues with the new Wing. Check out his multiple videos dealing with the new boy on the block. If I was tempted to wait on getting a new 2018 to get the bugs worked out, Max might have convinced me. That rear rod ain't looking good to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYhrQYdPXsY

And another one with a very loose steering head bearing............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qujrjxXKJdI

:popcorn:.........

willtill
02-19-2018, 07:47 AM
If there was ever a weak link with this new 2018, it would be those steering rods. I've stated that before.

Am surprised in that second video link that there is clunk already present in the gynormous steering head bearing :shock:

.

VStarRider
02-19-2018, 12:47 PM
Aye Carumba!

Love what I have seen so far with my butt tests of this bike, but YOU KNOW there will be issues with so much new stuff...it is inevitable with any new heavily engineered, heavily re-designed vehicle...

Yamaha tried to engineer a bunch of weight out of their new snowmobiles back in 2006...took out grease zerks, used thinner metal in the skid (suspension system that track wraps around). What happened? Bushings where zerks were removed needing replacing every year; arms in the aforementioned suspension were cracking and breaking after a couple of years. Guess what newer models had? Yep, zerks back into the equation and heavier metal in the suspension components.

Verismo
02-19-2018, 05:00 PM
I, too, have reliability questions and concerns. However, being that Traxxion has a vested interest in the necessity of replaceable components, I'm watching all sides with a skeptical eye. However, that front end sure does feel like magic on the road. Fingers crossed that it lasts as well.

Jason

choptop
02-19-2018, 05:26 PM
Again, I like my '13 F6b ...

Walcrow
02-19-2018, 05:40 PM
I hear you Jason. The interesting item is the steering head bearing being loose after 300 frickin' miles.......WTF Honda? Wonder if ALL-BALLS is already at the drawing board? Wouldn't doubt it and I don't blame Max for tearing a new one apart. He built a better mouse trap for the previous Wings suspension and I wouldn't bet against him that his upgrades will make the new Wing better. It's a great new suspension design but that does not preclude Max from finding various issues that he might just make better.

Jimmytee
02-19-2018, 05:56 PM
You guys do realize this guy Max has a deeply vested interest in convincing all the new 2018 owners that they NEED his services because the new Gold Wing suspension is crap right? :icon_rolleyes::icon_rolleyes:

He has to convince you that a whole new generation of Wing still needs him. Just put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Walcrow
02-19-2018, 06:04 PM
So Jimmy, you're telling us that Will, 53driver, and a host of other members AND non-members pissed away their money with Traxxion on their B upgrades over the years? Max is only doing what probably every other manufacturer does by ripping other companies shit apart to see what they did and might make better. If that head bearing is loose with only 300 miles, and I spent $28,000 on the new Wing, I'd be beyond pissed. No one, including Max, is forcing us to get a Traxxion upgrade, but I won't fault him for putting his empirical knowledge to use based on the "older" Wing.

Sorcerer
02-19-2018, 06:17 PM
What you also need to take into account in the vid is that with the front shock removed that the suspension parts are hanging at angles that they normally will not be operating at when the shock is attached. The clunk that was in the tie rod end, that was at an extreme angle because of the shock being removed. In fairness, at our local 1800 reveal the Honda rep did mention that the tie rods are something that has to be checked on a regularly bases and adjusted as needed.

Walcrow
02-19-2018, 06:25 PM
Thanks for the update. The tie rod design is quite interesting with the left rear connection being totally different than the other 3 points. Any engineers around who could give some insight into that arrangement or was Max blowing smoke up our butts?

willtill
02-19-2018, 06:56 PM
You know... one would really need to get their hands on one themselves. And to report after a couple of thousand miles.

Personally I am a little leery of those tie rods but Honda engineering I think would have thought it through pretty well.

The devil is in longevity down the road.

.

Jimmytee
02-19-2018, 07:03 PM
So Jimmy, you're telling us that Will, 53driver, and a host of other members AND non-members pissed away their money with Traxxion on their B upgrades over the years? Max is only doing what probably every other manufacturer does by ripping other companies shit apart to see what they did and might make better. If that head bearing is loose with only 300 miles, and I spent $28,000 on the new Wing, I'd be beyond pissed. No one, including Max, is forcing us to get a Traxxion upgrade, but I won't fault him for putting his empirical knowledge to use based on the "older" Wing.

So Walcrow , you can vouch for the content and truthfulness of his videos? You are also putting a whole lot more words into what I said. Just be advised , is all I am saying. It's pretty odd that you can read someone's glowing review of the handling on the 18 Wing and then not a week later completely does a 180 and says it's trash.:icon_rolleyes:

As far as his upgrades, many who have had them have also had issues with the durabilty of his shocks too.

opas ride
02-19-2018, 07:03 PM
I would not let one or two posts influence any decisions about the new suspension on the 2018's at this point...As willtill has posted, lets have a few riders get some real world miles on these things for a while and then take a look!!!...Some of us are clearly "rushing to judgment" way to early in my opinion....I an sure that Honda has a pretty good handle on what they are doing.....Ride safe

ShanghaiDan
02-19-2018, 08:54 PM
My guess is the issues are really related to dealer prep, not design. The design seems really strong and appropriate, but given that dealers have probably set up a grand total of zero before this one, well - an error in the initial setup would not at all be unexpected.

willtill
02-19-2018, 09:11 PM
My guess is the issues are really related to dealer prep, not design. The design seems really strong and appropriate, but given that dealers have probably set up a grand total of zero before this one, well - an error in the initial setup would not at all be unexpected.

Yea... like the GoldWing brake recall. What a clusterfuck that was initially with many dealers...

Walcrow
02-19-2018, 09:53 PM
So Walcrow , you can vouch for the content and truthfulness of his videos? You are also putting a whole lot more words into what I said. Just be advised , is all I am saying. It's pretty odd that you can read someone's glowing review of the handling on the 18 Wing and then not a week later completely does a 180 and says it's trash.:icon_rolleyes:

As far as his upgrades, many who have had them have also had issues with the durabilty of his shocks too.

I'm not trying to argue. I agree with you about Max having the probability of negating Honda's design to possibly get riders to buy his future products. Every manufacturer does that and advertises that their crap is better his crap. Also, I would like to hear more about Traxxion's shock issues because I have been planning to ride over to Woodstock and have it done. I've read the members here rant and rave about the difference after Max's installs. I haven't read much about the negatives other than the $$$$ it takes to get it done. If the shocks have issues, I'd love to hear about them. As to the videos validity, of course I wasn't there when he took all the crap off. Did he loosen the steering head so the bearing would rattle? Beats me. We both weren't there. Am I to then believe that Max is a big fat shyster? Beats me. Max can do all the investigation he wants as I'm not getting a 2018 anyway. I'm sure we'll get plenty of feedback from those 2018 Wing riders who are either jumping for joy or pissed as hell.

Sorcerer
02-19-2018, 10:29 PM
What you have to remember is that Taxxion shocks are a racing shocks. Front or rear Taxxion on 2017 and back need to be maintained I think they say every 16,000 miles. That may mean you take them off and apart and service the internals. My 13 had 35,000 miles and I was starting to think of replacing the rear shock spring. My 14 with 26,000 miles is still feeling ok.

ths61
02-19-2018, 11:21 PM
Just found this on YouTube. Looks like Max at Traxxion Dynamics has some issues with the new Wing. Check out his multiple videos dealing with the new boy on the block. If I was tempted to wait on getting a new 2018 to get the bugs worked out, Max might have convinced me. That rear rod ain't looking good to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYhrQYdPXsY

And another one with a very loose steering head bearing............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qujrjxXKJdI

Just saw one of the steering slop videos and another video were a test rider said there was exhaust drone @ 63 MPH in the top gear.

ths61
02-19-2018, 11:23 PM
Yea... like the GoldWing brake recall. What a clusterfuck that was initially with many dealers...

After I had the brake recall, my rear brakes will chatter when they are hot under heavy braking. They sound like anti-lock brakes kicking in.

ths61
02-20-2018, 01:49 AM
Here is another video. Traxxion claims the stock shocks are underdampened and undersprung by at least 50%. They also said the front shock is sitting on the shock bumper under just it's own weight.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyECBs6WL9A

ths61
02-20-2018, 01:51 AM
Here is another video describing the electronic dampening. The four modes share 3 dampening settings (1 setting is used for 2 modes).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRFOA2Y4jPo

ths61
02-20-2018, 02:08 AM
Removing the front shock (Timecode(0:38) - 2018 uses same shock preloader as the 2001-2017 models):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s56-FekGqp8

Jimmytee
02-20-2018, 04:53 AM
After I had the brake recall, my rear brakes will chatter when they are hot under heavy braking. They sound like anti-lock brakes kicking in.

That sounds like the symptom of your brakes not being bled properly.

willtill
02-20-2018, 06:30 AM
That sounds like the symptom of your brakes not being bled properly.

As I said. A widespread dealer clusteryouknowwhat... I went through repeat visits for things done wrong during it and ended up making them eat a whole new rear brake caliper assembly.

willtill
02-20-2018, 06:33 AM
What you have to remember is that Taxxion shocks are a racing shocks. Front or rear Taxxion on 2017 and back need to be maintained I think they say every 16,000 miles. That may mean you take them off and apart and service the internals. My 13 had 35,000 miles and I was starting to think of replacing the rear shock spring. My 14 with 26,000 miles is still feeling ok.

Their front shocks have to be serviced every 25K. And from what they showed me; the fluid does not turn as dark from component disintegration as Honda's proprietary internals do; since Traxxion has tighter tolerances within the shock body = less wear.

druggr
02-20-2018, 10:10 AM
It is certainly true for gen 5, and probably the same for gen 6 ... basically the springs are worn out at 20k. The springs and shocks in gen 5 remind me of new cars from the '70s. After 20k, if the shocks were not replaced, the car rode like **it until they were. Back then, cars came with a 80/20 shock. The shocks provided 20% resistance on nose dives and 80% resistance when rebounding up. Which is a great shock for a new springs. However, when the spring softened and begins to sag, it then needs a 50/50 shock ... same dampening up and down.

In one of Max's videos he show his Wing continuing to bounce 3-4 times after pushing down on the bars. Remember the bumper test on cars ??? Push down hard on the front bumper and the bumper continuing to bounce 3-4 times (also called cycles), and with new shocks it settles between 1-1.5 cycles ???

With Gen 6 ... welcome to auto shop class Basic Car Suspension Systems 101.

ths61
02-20-2018, 11:41 AM
That sounds like the symptom of your brakes not being bled properly.

That's what I thought, but my stealer's wrench insists that is normal in really hot weather.

olegoat345
02-20-2018, 03:17 PM
My '13 "B" feels great w/ the OEM shock & front end. I suppose some folks want the advantage of racing style shock & front end & don't mind paying for them. If the OEM goes south, why not get the racing stuff? Go for it.
Having been in business my entire life. I know there's lots of businesses that run down / bad mouth the other guy's product just to make their product look like the greatest thing since sliced bread. As far as any new MC goes, I doubt if any Mfg. will put racing type / style anything on a product designed for cruising & everyday fun. 1) most folks really don't feel the need for it or want it. 2) It would run the price point up and that would chased off buyers. 3) somebodies going to come along and say they have a better mouse trap no matter what. = Personally, I'm not ready to buy into the "bad front end" hype that's being put out only a few weeks after the bike was released. Having said that, it's a all new GW, I'm sure they will be a few bugs to work out and may be few "ah shits." The front end might be one of them, I feel it's just to soon to tell. ==== & that's my 5 cents worth.

willtill
02-20-2018, 04:09 PM
olegoat345, the reason why several of us went to Traxxion is because they install TWO shock cartridges in the front end, compared to Honda's one.

The OEM Honda front end in native form is really lacking. If you are fine with mediocrity, sure then... settle for the Honda OEM.

opas ride
02-20-2018, 06:00 PM
My '13 "B" feels great w/ the OEM shock & front end. I suppose some folks want the advantage of racing style shock & front end & don't mind paying for them. If the OEM goes south, why not get the racing stuff? Go for it.
Having been in business my entire life. I know there's lots of businesses that run down / bad mouth the other guy's product just to make their product look like the greatest thing since sliced bread. As far as any new MC goes, I doubt if any Mfg. will put racing type / style anything on a product designed for cruising & everyday fun. 1) most folks really don't feel the need for it or want it. 2) It would run the price point up and that would chased off buyers. 3) somebodies going to come along and say they have a better mouse trap no matter what. = Personally, I'm not ready to buy into the "bad front end" hype that's being put out only a few weeks after the bike was released. Having said that, it's a all new GW, I'm sure they will be a few bugs to work out and may be few "ah shits." The front end might be one of them, I feel it's just to soon to tell. ==== & that's my 5 cents worth.

I have only 14,000 miles on my F6B so far after 4 years of riding, and do not find much fault with the front end on my 2013...I know many have felt the need to upgrade the suspension to make the bike handle better???...I agree with olegoat for the most part and it be will a "cold day in hell" when this old boy spends $3,000 just to make the front end handle a little more racy...... With my style of riding my bike works just fine thank you!!! Too each his own as they say and ride safe....

willtill
02-20-2018, 08:02 PM
I have only 14,000 miles on my F6B so far after 4 years of riding, and do not find much fault with the front end on my 2013...I know many have felt the need to upgrade the suspension to make the bike handle better???...I agree with olegoat for the most part and it be will a "cold day in hell" when this old boy spends $3,000 just to make the front end handle a little more racy...... With my style of riding my bike works just fine thank you!!! Too each his own as they say and ride safe....

For Christs sake... it's nothing about "racy" it's for better function. WTF?

And Opas... for Gawd's sake yer fricken retired. 14K on your F6B after 4 years...??? Git out of your damned rocking chair and ride. C'mon man....!


:icon_wink:

Verismo
02-20-2018, 09:47 PM
For Christs sake... it's nothing about "racy" it's for better function. WTF?

And Opas... for Gawd's sake yer fricken retired. 14K on your F6B after 4 years...??? Git out of your damned rocking chair and ride. C'mon man....!


:icon_wink:

Lol,I have no criticisms about your shock selection Willtill, but it does bring up a question I've been ponderin'. Most of the reviews I've read of the Traxxion setup mention being much tighter in the corners, and elmination of the low-speed wobble. But they do all sort of hint at a much tighter/sportier feel. I'm thinking of eventually upgrading my F6B suspension, but I'm leaning more towards Arnott Air Shock in the rear and Progressive monotubes up front, because I'm not looking for tighter or sportier at all. I'm looking for a much more plush ride. Do you have any thoughts to add about the overall comfort of your ride? I gather you're a hard nosed guy who likes to ride in what I would consider extremely cold weather, so we might have very diferent ideals here, but do you have any thoughts about the comfort level of the Traxxion setup?

Sorry for the post hi-jack. If you'd rather answer pm instead of inline, that's fine by me. Only tie-in I can think of is to say that I doubt I'd be thinking about doing this upgrade if I bought the new Wing after my test ride. It seems to do both pretty well. Just once again comes down to longevity/reliability.

Jason

ths61
02-21-2018, 12:07 AM
More information on the front shock.

Note: The rider is sitting on the bike with his feet on the ground holding up the bike so not all of his full weight is on the bike yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpskmEWSVQ

Walcrow
02-21-2018, 12:32 AM
Looks like Max might have a new Traxxion shock for sale pretty soon...for the front AND the back. I'd guess by March or April......if the stock bumper lasts that long. At least it bottoms out into rubber instead of steel. Curious to see what the steering head bearing looks like when he gets around to that disassembly. Could All-Balls be next?

ths61
02-21-2018, 01:13 AM
Lol,I have no criticisms about your shock selection Willtill, but it does bring up a question I've been ponderin'. Most of the reviews I've read of the Traxxion setup mention being much tighter in the corners, and elmination of the low-speed wobble. But they do all sort of hint at a much tighter/sportier feel. I'm thinking of eventually upgrading my F6B suspension, but I'm leaning more towards Arnott Air Shock in the rear and Progressive monotubes up front, because I'm not looking for tighter or sportier at all. I'm looking for a much more plush ride. Do you have any thoughts to add about the overall comfort of your ride? I gather you're a hard nosed guy who likes to ride in what I would consider extremely cold weather, so we might have very diferent ideals here, but do you have any thoughts about the comfort level of the Traxxion setup?

Sorry for the post hi-jack. If you'd rather answer pm instead of inline, that's fine by me. Only tie-in I can think of is to say that I doubt I'd be thinking about doing this upgrade if I bought the new Wing after my test ride. It seems to do both pretty well. Just once again comes down to longevity/reliability.

Jason

Jason,

I have had the Traxxion system on 2 bikes for 2 different reasons. On my F6B, the biggest improvement was the front end. It got rid of the handlebar vibrations, wandering and holds the lines much better. You will appreciate it even if you are not an aggressive rider. A friend who used to do motocross rode my B and then got the Traxxion system for his full wing. He is a much more aggressive rider than I am and really likes the upgrade.

It also got rid of the anti-dive valve so you have an actual suspension when you need it (when you are braking). I haven't tried the Progressive system, so I can't compare the two.

If I had to do it again, I would probably try the air-system that JimmyTee put on the rear of his F6B. My wife still complains that the F6B's rear end is very harsh (both with the stock and the Traxxion rear shock). I don't think I would give up the Traxxion front end on my F6B.

On my Victory Vision, the biggest improvement was the rear shock which removed the sag and kept the bike from bottoming out. The front probably helped eliminate some sag, but I attribute most of the improvement to the rear shock on the Vision. It was very apparent by just sitting on the Vision before and after the install. Ground clearance was preserved. The front of the Vision did not have the vibration/wandering issues the F6B had.

HTH

Verismo
02-21-2018, 01:27 AM
Jason,

I have had the Traxxion system on 2 bikes for 2 different reasons. On my F6B, the biggest improvement was the front end. It got rid of the handlebar vibrations, wandering and holds the lines much better. You will appreciate it even if you are not an aggressive rider. A friend who used to do motocross rode my B and then got the Traxxion system for his full wing. He is a much more aggressive rider than I am and really likes the upgrade.

It also got rid of the anti-dive valve so you have an actual suspension when you need it (when you are braking). I haven't tried the Progressive system, so I can't compare the two.

If I had to do it again, I would probably try the air-system that JimmyTee put on the rear of his F6B. My wife still complains that the F6B's rear end is very harsh (both with the stock and the Traxxion rear shock). I don't think I would give up the Traxxion front end on my F6B.

On my Victory Vision, the biggest improvement was the rear shock which removed the sag and kept the bike from bottoming out. The front probably helped eliminate the sag, but I attribute most of the improvement to the rear shock on the Vision. The front of the Vision did not have the vibration/wandering issues the F6B had.

HTH

That's excellent info, HTH, and will indeed make me think more seriously about the Traxxion up front. Mine wanders a bit up front. The vibrations don't bother me too much, but it would be nice to have less of them. I also don't really mind the low speed wobble, save for the fact that if something like that is not engineered properly, then it can really only go one direction--worse. I'll have to also factor in cost. I'm not sure if there is a negligible difference in Traxxion vs. Monotubes with installation. That Arnott is expensive, and so is installation, and I have no experience and the equivalent confidence in wrenching on suspensions. Jimmytee seems to have done a bang up job. He installed a beautiful mod by including an inline guage next to the gas key to read the shock's air pressure. Really slick. I wish this stuff didn't cost a fortune to get worked on! I really appreciate the info.

Jason

Zteve
02-21-2018, 07:58 AM
My B is looking better and better.

willtill
02-21-2018, 08:42 AM
Lol,I have no criticisms about your shock selection Willtill, but it does bring up a question I've been ponderin'. Most of the reviews I've read of the Traxxion setup mention being much tighter in the corners, and elmination of the low-speed wobble. But they do all sort of hint at a much tighter/sportier feel. I'm thinking of eventually upgrading my F6B suspension, but I'm leaning more towards Arnott Air Shock in the rear and Progressive monotubes up front, because I'm not looking for tighter or sportier at all. I'm looking for a much more plush ride. Do you have any thoughts to add about the overall comfort of your ride? I gather you're a hard nosed guy who likes to ride in what I would consider extremely cold weather, so we might have very diferent ideals here, but do you have any thoughts about the comfort level of the Traxxion setup?

Sorry for the post hi-jack. If you'd rather answer pm instead of inline, that's fine by me. Only tie-in I can think of is to say that I doubt I'd be thinking about doing this upgrade if I bought the new Wing after my test ride. It seems to do both pretty well. Just once again comes down to longevity/reliability.

Jason

That Traxxion front end is more stiff than the OEM instance. But there is no slop.


.

willtill
02-21-2018, 08:49 AM
More information on the front shock.

Note: The rider is sitting on the bike with his feet on the ground holding up the bike so not all of his full weight is on the bike yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpskmEWSVQ

Yea... this is NOT good.

jm21ddd15
02-21-2018, 09:34 AM
More information on the front shock.

Note: The rider is sitting on the bike with his feet on the ground holding up the bike so not all of his full weight is on the bike yet.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTpskmEWSVQ

Another reason to not buy the 1st year of a new model. Let any bugs get worked out. My F6 is not perfect, but it does what I need, and is an all around great bike.

Walcrow
02-21-2018, 10:07 AM
You might be right JM. I've got a 2015 B.....14 years after coming out.....I'll wait for the 2032 Wing. All should be good by then.

opas ride
02-21-2018, 11:33 AM
For Christs sake... it's nothing about "racy" it's for better function. WTF?

And Opas... for Gawd's sake yer fricken retired. 14K on your F6B after 4 years...??? Git out of your damned rocking chair and ride. C'mon man....!


:icon_wink:

Will, I would ride more if I could, but with my wife having major surgery on her back last year and the lousy weather lately, I don't get much chance to ride...Hopefully the new year will be better...BTW, what do you mean by "better function" with a $3,000 suspension upgrade??...Just curious and ride safe

willtill
02-21-2018, 12:15 PM
Will, I would ride more if I could, but with my wife having major surgery on her back last year and the lousy weather lately, I don't get much chance to ride...Hopefully the new year will be better...BTW, what do you mean by "better function" with a $3,000 suspension upgrade??...Just curious and ride safe

That $3,000 is a variable; it would be the full upgrade. I only did the front end...

This has been discussed ad nauseam... The F6B's front forks in OEM form are of poor design with only half the dampening ability that could be afforded by two functional shocks. Traxxion solves that issue.

Watch all three video's. They explain it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCIO7uGziS8

willtill
02-21-2018, 12:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4JARq0LWn8

willtill
02-21-2018, 12:16 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-utxXayalz4

VStarRider
02-21-2018, 12:18 PM
I don't understand how the reports of great ride quality from the front end are co-existing with the reports from Traxxion about having 1" of shock travel and the shock bottoming bumper coming into play frequently.

willtill
02-21-2018, 12:20 PM
I don't understand how the reports of great ride quality from the front end are co-existing with the reports from Traxxion about having 1" of shock travel and the shock bottoming bumper coming into play frequently.

How pliable is that new 2018 front shock bumper? Possibly it allows for more shaft travel than we can see?

Walcrow
02-21-2018, 12:29 PM
Looked the rubber bumper is part of the shock dampening system!!. The top of the shock hits the damper and gives it that "rubberized road feel". Honda should come out with a rubber bumper like a Superbrace that comes in 2 pieces. Just screw a new one on every 500 miles or so, then hit the next rest area. Parts Dept. will sell 'em with 500 to the case.

OR.....Max says the travel of the shock is 53mm and the bumper takes up 60% of that travel. Maybe the bumper compresses to about 59% of that amount. I'd get the 4 year extended warranty on that bumper......OR.....Honda is going to get real pissed if they have to pay to replace that sucker every so often under warranty if it wears out prematurely. If what I saw had 300 miles on it, that piece might not last too long.

opas ride
02-21-2018, 01:52 PM
That $3,000 is a variable; it would be the full upgrade. I only did the front end...

This has been discussed ad nauseam... The F6B's front forks in OEM form are of poor design with only half the dampening ability that could be afforded by two functional shocks. Traxxion solves that issue.

Watch all three video's. They explain it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCIO7uGziS8

Thanks, very interesting video....I plan to stay with the stock stuff for now as I might trade the bike next year for something else...Regards and ride safe

ths61
02-21-2018, 02:43 PM
How pliable is that new 2018 front shock bumper? Possibly it allows for more shaft travel than we can see?

It appears the front bumper is acting as an anti-dive valve and coil spring. If so, it will wear quickly.

TD said new shocks won't be expensive, but the labor will because both shocks are buried and require a lot of time to get at them and cover them back up again. That means replacing a worn bumper frequently will rack up the shop labor $$$.

Walcrow
02-21-2018, 03:13 PM
It appears the front bumper is acting as an anti-dive valve and coil spring. If so, it will wear quickly.

TD said new shocks won't be expensive, but the labor will because both shocks are buried and require a lot of time to get at them and cover them back up again. That means replacing a worn bumper frequently will rack up the shop labor $$$.

Yep, I think the dealers will love it. They'll see another new Wing come in the service dept and the first thing they say....."We got any more of them bumper things in stock?" .....Six more hours charged back to Mama Honda.

Verismo
02-21-2018, 03:21 PM
Since I am a neophyte when it comes to suspensions, I have neophyte thoughts about them, such as: given that the bumper is noticeably different in size and proportion to other bumpers, is it possible that Honda designed the new one to function in a slightly different way? From the description in the video, you would think there would be a very regular feeling of "bottoming out" the front end, given the tiny amount of available travel on the shock. That is the opposite of what I felt from the front end on my test ride. It was never harsh, actually most comfortable front end I've ever felt on a bike. Maybe I didn't push it hard enough in the corners to experience the limitation?

Jason

ShanghaiDan
02-21-2018, 05:19 PM
I don't understand how the reports of great ride quality from the front end are co-existing with the reports from Traxxion about having 1" of shock travel and the shock bottoming bumper coming into play frequently.

It's all about ratios and lever arms. My CTX700 has "only" 1.5 inches of shock travel, but because of the 2.5:1 ratio of the shock to swing arm, it gives me a little over 4 inches of travel before bottoming. So having a shock move just 1 inch is really not an issue, and doesn't mean anything without knowing the lever arm ratio to determine what that 1 inch of travel actual means.

willtill
02-21-2018, 05:50 PM
It's all about ratios and lever arms. My CTX700 has "only" 1.5 inches of shock travel, but because of the 2.5:1 ratio of the shock to swing arm, it gives me a little over 4 inches of travel before bottoming. So having a shock move just 1 inch is really not an issue, and doesn't mean anything without knowing the lever arm ratio to determine what that 1 inch of travel actual means.

Someone needs to get a camera in that front end and film that shock shaft; as the shock is being articulated....

ths61
02-21-2018, 06:20 PM
Someone needs to get a camera in that front end and film that shock shaft; as the shock is being articulated....

That would be a great video to have while the bike is being ridden one and two up..

Like the DarkSide GoPro videos showing the car tire's contact patches.

Walcrow
02-21-2018, 09:58 PM
Here's the steering head rattle issue from Max.................

https://youtu.be/cHcTiEQDIjY

choptop
02-21-2018, 11:14 PM
Not necessarily something a person wants to see or hear but good to know.:yikes:

daleglide
02-22-2018, 10:47 AM
After demo riding the 2018 Gold Wing Tour I could feel the front end slop you are talking about. Not all the time, but it was noticeable.

Pumper
02-22-2018, 02:28 PM
Amen....perfect explanation why to leave stock suspension behind. Honda has inferior suspension from the factory...the worst of any major brand, why cheap. Loading one fork only is the worst possible scenario you can have on a two leg fork system. The forks never act the same in turning or stopping, as they are unbalanced and then throw in an anti-dive piece of crap and it only gets worse.

Those of us who have gone with the Traxxion upgrade never say, boy I wish I had my stock suspension back...LOL

ShanghaiDan
02-23-2018, 11:01 AM
Someone needs to get a camera in that front end and film that shock shaft; as the shock is being articulated....

Yep, it seems to me to be basically the same type of forces on the front shock as on a rear monoshock setup. Short stroke, lever arm for operation/usable stroke. Mainly in-and-out forces since both ends can rotate freely about an axis.

Zteve
02-23-2018, 03:14 PM
Our B's rear shock has too much pre load and it looks like the new Wing's front has too little. :confused: Someone needs to check on the guys in the suspension dept.

VStarRider
02-23-2018, 08:26 PM
Our B's rear shock has too much pre load and it looks like the new Wing's front has too little. :confused: Someone needs to check on the guys in the suspension dept.

Agreed. My rear shock/spring is too stiff, even with the lowest preload setting, under my 230 lb arse.

opas ride
02-24-2018, 11:26 AM
I am beginning to think that some of you constant complainers about the Honda suspension issues should perhaps start looking for another ride...Nothing is perfect and no one will ever find the ultimate bike that satisfies all...Enjoy the ride, be thankful you can and do it and move on!!!!....Regards and ride safe

Zteve
02-24-2018, 11:48 AM
At this point in motorcycle evolution you'd think the suspension would be a non issue. If what's being shown about the new Wings front suspension is true (which it appears to be) then it's kinda hard not to talk about.

opas ride
02-24-2018, 12:39 PM
Could be "fake news" as they say, but I agree that only time will tell as the newer generation bikes get thousands of miles on them...At this point most of this suspension talk, is in my opinion, just talk!!!!....Regards

willtill
02-24-2018, 04:13 PM
I am beginning to think that some of you constant complainers about the Honda suspension issues should perhaps start looking for another ride...Nothing is perfect and no one will ever find the ultimate bike that satisfies all...Enjoy the ride, be thankful you can and do it and move on!!!!....Regards and ride safe

Opas... please. There is always room for improvement... in anything. Or should all of us be satisfied with our government issued cheese and sawdust bread? ...and a Honda OEM suspension?

Walcrow
02-24-2018, 04:18 PM
Could be "fake news" as they say, but I agree that only time will tell as the newer generation bikes get thousands of miles on them...At this point most of this suspension talk, is in my opinion, just talk!!!!....Regards

Something tells me Max isn't in to "fake news". I've heard he hates CNN AND MSNBC.

Sorcerer
02-24-2018, 04:34 PM
Agreed. My rear shock/spring is too stiff, even with the lowest preload setting, under my 230 lb arse.

If you are set all the way down your bottoming the rear shock. Crank it up to 2/3rds to 3/4 of the way. You’ll be much happier.

opas ride
02-24-2018, 04:39 PM
I am not suggesting that there may, or may not, be room for improvement, but it just appears to me that some are just "rushing to judgment" way to early on the 2018 suspension without any real world issues as yet..Maybe the Traxxion people are a little anxious to sell upgrades already that may not be necessary or needed....I am not looking for negative arguments and I am well aware that some things can be made better and many after-market companies sell great products to improve on OEM parts....but merely saying, lets wait and see first for a while....In any event, I probably should "shut-up" on this issue as I have no plans to purchase a 2018 model in the near or distant future.....Regards and ride safe

F6Bster
02-24-2018, 05:25 PM
As I read this thread one thing clearly comes to mind: Winter results in too much time on the web and not enough time riding. Come on warm weather!!!!

Note: the above definitely applies to me.

willtill
02-24-2018, 06:25 PM
As I read this thread one thing clearly comes to mind: Winter results in too much time on the web and not enough time riding. Come on warm weather!!!!

Note: the above definitely applies to me.

Ditto! Cabin fever and P.M.S. runs rampant during this time of year....

ShanghaiDan
02-24-2018, 10:06 PM
At this point in motorcycle evolution you'd think the suspension would be a non issue. If what's being shown about the new Wings front suspension is true (which it appears to be) then it's kinda hard not to talk about.

I still hold that this isn't from design, it's from dealer prep/setup. When I got my CTX700 (the 3rd my dealer had ever had), the rear was WAY too soft - they left it from the factory, which was essentially zero preload. As a big-boy, I cranked it all the way to full preload and it's been great ever since. Was that a design flaw? Nope! Dealer prep flaw, and if it was a 150 pound "idealized" Honda rider, it would have been great. Being over twice that, though, I needed a LOT of preload.

Walcrow
02-25-2018, 12:15 AM
Dan...

The issue here is not about dealer set up as to the front steering head bearing and the races. Honda apparently did a crappy job installing those races, according to the Max video. I'll agree with you about dealer prep being sloppy at times, but I don't think that most dealers would have shaken a new customers front suspension and then tell the service dept. to take it apart and check those races. Mama Honda screwed up on the one that Max got hold of and I think he did new Wing owners a "pay if forward" by pointing it out. I'll agree with opas that Max will soon have a new Traxxion shock out for the new Wing. That's the business he's in and I applaud him for attempting to improve upon something he feels is inferior. No one HAS to buy it, and can opt to if they have the cash. It also looks like Mama Honda had plenty of leftover rear shocks from 2017 to stick on the 2018. Seems cheesy to me for a $28,000 bike.

Walcrow
03-08-2018, 11:17 PM
Max and his new video on the tie rods and their purpose...................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY6OvsuZj3w

Zteve
03-09-2018, 12:09 AM
I sat on two Goldwing Tour bikes at a dealer. One had a lot of tie rod play and the other had much less.

ths61
03-09-2018, 01:03 AM
I don't understand how the reports of great ride quality from the front end are co-existing with the reports from Traxxion about having 1" of shock travel and the shock bottoming bumper coming into play frequently.

I would speculate there are multiple reasons such as:

1) Pride of Ownership/Denial after spending $30K on a first year bike.
2) Variances in bikes first off the line.
3) Variances in riders perceptions and riding styles. Some people notice things, others don't, just like with anything else.

Wart reports are popping up around the internet for multiple issues (paint, fit & finish, mechanical, software) from early adopters and not just from vendors. Not unexpected for an initial production run.

Walcrow
03-12-2018, 06:18 PM
Max's video from today about more tie rod slop................

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZNgTz3rut0


and another short one from Max...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtRJ1XZLOD8