Cornering Speed and Posture

[F6BPDX]

Obviously I am sure there are a ton of different answers as no two people are exactly the same but I am curious of a couple things from my fellow wingers.

1) My posture tends to be very upright when I ride, which obviously suits the F6B just fine. I noticed today, completely by accident really, that if I hunch forward (not by a lot just maybe 2"-3" or so) into a more "sportbike" riding position in curves I feel more stable and also it feels like the handling is more crisp and responsive. Thinking about this as I sit here at my desk I assume that it is either completely in my head or that the combination of more weight forward and a more "loaded" positioning of my arms makes for easier dipping of the bike into the curve. I was curious what the thoughts are of folks who have far more than my 8 months of riding experience.

2) What is your standard rule of thumb for entering the following corners (assume we are talking about an average radius/sight line/etc to match the "recommended" corner speed)

----10mph

----25mph

----35mph

I know that I am not pushing my bike anywhere near it's limits or anything as my average entry speed is typically between 5-15 over, but my curiosity is killing me as to where most guys rule of thumb is on the style of bike that we ride. The only thread I have seen was on a sportbike forum and the general vibe was "double everything" but that is obviously on a very different style of motorcycle.

[Scotrod]

Honestly, I tend to pay more attention to the road than I do the signs or the speedo. :iduno:
I'm not a 'speed racer' kinda guy anyway,,, Seen too many of these lately: :cop2:

[bobbyf6b]

I don't do anything unusual, just lean into the turn like normal. The one thing I did learn though, don't try to shift while turning left or you might lose your toes! :icon_doh:

[HogSlayer]

Avg 15-20mph maybe sometimes 20-30 if Im in the real aggressive mode and Im on a familiar road. Unfamiliar rds deserve some respect. Ive never heard of a avg, I would say each rider has their comfort zone. If youre thinkin about stepn up your entry speeds ease into it brother,
Small steps, turn it up my 5mph at a time and ride that until you feel real natural at the higher speed then kick it up another 5mph and so on.
As for your riding position change by crouchin fwd a little that makes ur air signature smaller so less turbulence and your center of gravity gets lowered a little, both help the line the bike can follow thru curve.

[Bruce B]

Obviously I am sure there are a ton of different answers as no two people are exactly the same but I am curious of a couple things from my fellow wingers.

1) My posture tends to be very upright when I ride, which obviously suits the F6B just fine. I noticed today, completely by accident really, that if I hunch forward (not by a lot just maybe 2"-3" or so) into a more "sportbike" riding position in curves I feel more stable and also it feels like the handling is more crisp and responsive. Thinking about this as I sit here at my desk I assume that it is either completely in my head or that the combination of more weight forward and a more "loaded" positioning of my arms makes for easier dipping of the bike into the curve. I was curious what the thoughts are of folks who have far more than my 8 months of riding experience.

2) What is your standard rule of thumb for entering the following corners (assume we are talking about an average radius/sight line/etc to match the "recommended" corner speed)

----10mph

----25mph

----35mph

I know that I am not pushing my bike anywhere near it's limits or anything as my average entry speed is typically between 5-15 over, but my curiosity is killing me as to where most guys rule of thumb is on the style of bike that we ride. The only thread I have seen was on a sportbike forum and the general vibe was "double everything" but that is obviously on a very different style of motorcycle.

Regarding the posture question - I agree that a small , perhaps imperceptible to an observer, lean forward helps me in cornering. I also find that poking a shoulder a bit into the turn helps. I don't do this trying to be some sort of Ricky Racer. I tend to ride briskly but not aggressively. I just find that the small lean forward and pointing with the shoulder makes the bike go where it's pointed and feel less like it's being steered with a tiller. This is for the twisties, not for lazy cruising through wide sweepers. I don't think this posture is even noticeable to those riding with me. I see others going through the same twisties sitting bolt upright with straight arms and that works fine for them. So, as always, whatever works for each of us.

[Limbuck]

Ok Miles, Big Dawg, and Steve. I know ya'll got something on this one. I've seen enough to know that your cornering speed averages somewhere between fast and real fast and your posture likely involves keeping your toes up so they don't burn off. But you guys have a wealth of experience and the skills to ride that way.
But seriously friend, take your time and work up to YOUR comfort zone. The more confident and competent you become the more enjoyable the ride.

[motozeke]

Shifting your weight forward will more heavily weight the front wheel, which should improve steering responsiveness. I don't own a F6B so I can't speak specifically about that bike but as a general rule you want to move your weight forward in a turn for just that reason. The downside is that the rear might be a little more susceptible to stepping out on you, but I doubt with the Wing's weight that's much of an issue.

http://www.sportrider.com/ride/146_0608_body_positioning_steering_techniques/

[Steve 0080]

Thank You Limbuck..... to answer the query... there are to many variables...starting with road conditions, bike conditions, how you are feeling that day and so on and on....

No real mystery here... just tried and true...look thru the corner, if coming in to hot use front brake to scrub some speed and bend that bike over... I am not a good person to get advise here..been riding to long and have many good and bad habits...

I will say that when flat landers go to the mountains usually bad things happen... here in Fl if the curve is marked 20 you can do 40..if you are good, 60 and if really good more... usually in the mountains for the first few trips or days the curve speed is all you want...( I still have issues with blind curves )...figure it out and begin to increase speed when ability has increased...I have used the term, " current " before...current means you do whatever often enough that there are no issues.... Sadly, I don't get up to the mountains as often as possible, so although maybe above average I also am no longer a speed demon... add that to a couple of friends dead and you will slow down. At my age I have nothing to prove to anyone and don't care. How ever I do like speed !

I also believe if you don't scare yourself or increase blood flow , what is the use of living!!!

Bottom line, ride your ride...period this ain' kinder garden and no one needs to impress anyone else...

If you are looking for advise as far as cornering..... here is my best advise..... go to a large parking lot, get the bike in third gear, and do circles, 10 left, 10 right....no gas, no clutch just bend the bike over and do circles..... now get the peg on the ground and drag the peg...full circle 10 right 10 left.....when you can do that, do it in second gear..... to boring go back to third gear and take one hand off the bar, 10 right 10 left....your confidence level will be sky high and most if not all fear gone...then go to Franklin....

[Mrf13]

Steve
I have never heard anyone say use the front brake if you are entering a turn to hot.
Someone told me a few years back to gently apply or drag the rear.
This technique has has helped me tremendously.

[Phantom]

Steve
I have never heard anyone say use the front brake if you are entering a turn to hot.
Someone told me a few years back to gently apply or drag the rear.
This technique has has helped me tremendously.

The linked braking system will apply 33% REAR brake when the front is applied.

I also use my front brakes to slow down if approaching/entering a curve too fast, 70% of the bikes weight is on that front tire when braking. The rear will brake lose much quicker in a curve than a front. Everyone has their own habits.

[BARRYS770]

However or whatever riding style you choose, do not exceed your comfort level when riding. Always enter a corner with a speed that will allow you some room to tighten up your line. Once you've entered the corner, you can always increase your speed as you see your exit point. Especially when riding with others. If someone is faster than you, DO NOT exceed your comfort level while trying to keep up. It's better that your buddies wait for you at the next stop point than for them to have to come back for you and find you in a ditch or on the hood of an oncoming car. As I get older & my testosterone level has dropped, I can share this wisdom with you.

Barry

[motozeke]

If someone is faster than you, DO NOT exceed your comfort level while trying to keep up. It's better that your buddies wait for you at the next stop point than for them to have to come back for you and find you in a ditch or on the hood of an oncoming car. As I get older & my testosterone level has dropped, I can share this wisdom with you.

Barry

As another wise rider says, "There is no trying in motorcycling." A corollary is the 3rd Rider rule: Riders 1 and 2 are more highly skilled and are riding faster. Rider number 3 is trying to keep up… until he augers it in on a turn.

Don't try! Don't be the 3rd Rider!

[Scotrod]

Unclear of everyone's experience level or desires, but they do offer a 'advanced riders course' at several of the same places that have the MSF classes. It's BYOB, so you'll have an opportunity to test you on your 6. Might be a decent place to pick up a few pointers in a 'hands on' group setting.

Braking into a corner after discovering you are too hot,,,, both brakes,,, Use every little bit of traction you can without loss of control. (Easier said than done! LOL!!!)

[Steve 0080]

I believe I said in Franklin......( no one will ever say they are not the best bike rider out there ) and then some one proved me right. If your using your rear brake coming into a curve hot, then God bless you...you have been very lucky! And this is why I don't like these discussions and why I would rather ride with a group of not more than 4 riders that I KNOW !!!

Here is Loris Capirossi coming into a corner to hot...notice the abundant use of rear brake!

[MichaelG]

And this is why I don't like these discussions and why I would rather ride with a group of not more than 4 riders that I KNOW !!!



And this is why I intentionally stayed out of this discussion, until now. I read the original post by Mike, a few minutes after he posted it, and decided that I did not want to enter that fray. We can discuss accessories, maintenance, locations to ride, etc, but when it comes to advising another rider how to become a better rider...that is difficult to do in posts on as forum. As Scott suggested, they do offer an advanced riders course, but...in my opinion, I think an advanced riders course "may" be too advanced for Mike. I think he needs either a one on one instructor, or...learn on his own.

As Steve stated about riding in groups...especialy with riders of unknown abilities, that is exactly what I surmissed in the parking lot at the hotel in Franklin, and why I said I would ride with Big Dawg, as I wanted to avoid being in the middle of 10 riders that did not have experience riding with one another, or in a group that size, with unknown abilities...like how to read a GPS (sorry, I ad to get that dig in there) :shhh:

F6BPDX, (Mike), if you want, I will make myself available to give you one on one instructions in riding. I know that you are fairly new to riding, only about 8 months of riding, so if I can lend a hand, I will.

[Lunatic Fringe]

I haven't had the pleasure of riding a wing/f6b but I would leave a lot of leeway in the twisties on a bike so big and heavy. You're gonna want to have plenty of time and space to adjust for those unknown surprises around the next corner. Have fun but ease into picking up the pace. Things can go bad quickly on large heavy fast machines.

[Bama Bagger]

F6BPDX (Mike),

Something to consider is picking up Keith Code's latest book on motorcycle riding, A Twist of the Wrist 2: The Basics of High-Performance Motorcycle Riding (Paperback) for around $15.00 on Amazon. As stated on the Amazon page - "Straight facts about riding! A Twist of the Wrist, the acknowledged number one book on rider improvement for ten years straight, brought riders worldwide to a new understanding of vital riding skills. Uncovers and traces, action by action, the direct links between man and machine".

Many riders think this book is only for Hyper-bike riders and yes many of the scenarios written about are based on track riding, however, it is an incredible book containing a vast knowledge of good riding skills tests and techniques. I've been riding 40+ years on the road and I still consult this book whether riding my 2011 Suzuki Hayabusa or my new 2013 F6B...safe and correct riding skills translates to any motorcycle! :yes:

Just my :2cents: :039:

[Mrf13]

My apologizes Steve. I read your post to quickly. Your advice is right on the money.

I have ridden street and mx for years, and what I feel has kept me on two wheels is not my riding skill but my ability to ride at my skill level. Not riding over my head or skill level.

[jkelley]

My apologizes Steve. I read your post to quickly. Your advice is right on the money.

I have ridden street and mx for years, and what I feel has kept me on two wheels is not my riding skill but my ability to ride at my skill level. Not riding over my head or skill level.

Zactly, everyone has to know their own limitations and ride within them. I have read horror stories, and seen many people that have survived accidents and heard the phrase "had to lay it down" too many times. More often than not the rider simply overrode their ability and froze, or got into a situation they were not prepared for. My wife who has now been riding for three years and rapidly becoming a very good rider has done as suggested here. Read the books, taken all the courses and had plenty of one on one time with me. I might add the ride like a pro videos are also a good source for information. Because if you are like me I need to see it and do it rather than read about it. I am lucky, I started out very young and have spent all my life making mistakes and learning the hard way. My hat is off to you for seeking advise and asking rather than being one of those that are afraid to swallow their pride and acknowledge that most including me have room for improvement in our skills, and possibly end up in a hospital or die due to inability or ignorance. Take up the offer for the one on one instruction and learn from someone that has been there. I think you will find it invaluable. Just because you can make a bike go down the road does not mean you can actually ride one!

[Limbuck]

Well there F6BPDX you got a lot of wisdom laid on you from some experienced riders. Amen to all of it. Slow and easy as you skill up.
And Miles. I knew you'd be there before long and such a generous offer F6BPDX should take advantage of if anyway possible. Riding our bikes is great but the selflessness of our rider community is unbelieveable.
Good w/e to all.

[Big Dawg]

The most important advice I could offer, is "situational awareness"! Which covers dozens of factors like condition of the pavement, condition of the tires and equipment. Pryor knowledge of the road and the surroundings, side roads, turnouts, mail boxes, traffic, etc. The best way that I can tell you how to find your speed is to: approaching the corner, Turn your head and eyes, to look through (as far as you can see) the corner, move over in the saddle towards the inside of the corner, Be SMOOTH as possible, downshift (engine braking). Toes on the pegs, apply front brake (Only) all the way to the apex if necessary. Drag pegs thought the corner, roll on the gas at the exit. In your helmet, yell "Yee Haw" and look for the next corner!

Find a series of corners that you can practice on to develop the "feel" for the amount of lean you have in the corners. You can use you toe as a feeler in the beginning. With your toe on the peg, as you are thinking you are at max lean, try to touch the pavement with your toe. It will teach you that you can lean the bike over a lot further even after the pegs have touched down. In the flat land, you can get on an interstate clover leaf and spend the day making right hand turns and never leave the clover leaf.

[Scotrod]

( no one will ever say they are not the best bike rider out there )

Yep. 95% will tell you they are 'above average'! :shock:

[F6BPDX]

Thanks for all of the helpful info guys.

Obviously yes I am new, been riding since April. Put 6700 miles on a Suzuki C50 and now have an additional 2200 on the F6B.

My main purpose of this post was to see if the "forward lean" making turning feel more solid was all in my head, which it sounds like is not the case.

Entry speed was more a curiosity than anything else. My comfort level at this stage in my riding is 5-15 over "generally" speaking. I am most definately not going to rush out and hit a 30mph corner at 60mph just because someone here (or anywhere) else says it can be done. Worst case scenario I would crash, best case I would need a new seat because of the permanent pucker mark in the center of mine. I am just not at that point yet. I didn't start riding to be a speed demon, not really in my nature, so pushing to the absolute limit isn't ever really going to be my goal anyhow. That being said I am always up for improving my skills and having them incase I need them so I will finish David's book and then read Keith's.

[Big Dawg]

Thanks for all of the helpful info guys.

Obviously yes I am new, been riding since April. Put 6700 miles on a Suzuki C50 and now have an additional 2200 on the F6B.

My main purpose of this post was to see if the "forward lean" making turning feel more solid was all in my head, which it sounds like is not the case.

Entry speed was more a curiosity than anything else. My comfort level at this stage in my riding is 5-15 over "generally" speaking. I am most definately not going to rush out and hit a 30mph corner at 60mph just because someone here (or anywhere) else says it can be done. Worst case scenario I would crash, best case I would need a new seat because of the permanent pucker mark in the center of mine. I am just not at that point yet. I didn't start riding to be a speed demon, not really in my nature, so pushing to the absolute limit isn't ever really going to be my goal anyhow. That being said I am always up for improving my skills and having them incase I need them so I will finish David's book and then read Keith's.

BABY STEPS. Ride at a pace that you are comfortable with, especially in the mountains, it is a different skill set! Totally different from straight and flat! Enjoy your bike.

[jkelley]

Thanks for all of the helpful info guys.

Obviously yes I am new, been riding since April. Put 6700 miles on a Suzuki C50 and now have an additional 2200 on the F6B.

My main purpose of this post was to see if the "forward lean" making turning feel more solid was all in my head, which it sounds like is not the case.

Entry speed was more a curiosity than anything else. My comfort level at this stage in my riding is 5-15 over "generally" speaking. I am most definately not going to rush out and hit a 30mph corner at 60mph just because someone here (or anywhere) else says it can be done. Worst case scenario I would crash, best case I would need a new seat because of the permanent pucker mark in the center of mine. I am just not at that point yet. I didn't start riding to be a speed demon, not really in my nature, so pushing to the absolute limit isn't ever really going to be my goal anyhow. That being said I am always up for improving my skills and having them incase I need them so I will finish David's book and then read Keith's.

I understand your question, but all of what has been said rings true. I really don't think about it much any more. I do lean forward and change my riding position when I know I want to ride twisties, or know I am going to be pushing speed, or in heavy traffic. When just cruising around on the interstate I am mostly on the highway pegs, leaned against the back rest listening to the stereo. All the references about you being new, or relatively short in experience were not meant to be derogatory in nature, but rather meant to be as helpful as possible. Most of these guy's here seem to be more than willing to help anyone because most of us have been there and or seen the outcome from those that think they know more than they actually do.
I hope you have a great time on the F6, and ride safely.
Jim

[Bama Bagger]

Thanks for all of the helpful info guys.

Obviously yes I am new, been riding since April. Put 6700 miles on a Suzuki C50 and now have an additional 2200 on the F6B.

My main purpose of this post was to see if the "forward lean" making turning feel more solid was all in my head, which it sounds like is not the case.

Entry speed was more a curiosity than anything else. My comfort level at this stage in my riding is 5-15 over "generally" speaking. I am most definately not going to rush out and hit a 30mph corner at 60mph just because someone here (or anywhere) else says it can be done. Worst case scenario I would crash, best case I would need a new seat because of the permanent pucker mark in the center of mine. I am just not at that point yet. I didn't start riding to be a speed demon, not really in my nature, so pushing to the absolute limit isn't ever really going to be my goal anyhow. That being said I am always up for improving my skills and having them incase I need them so I will finish David's book and then read Keith's.

F6BPDX,

You can also get the Twist of the Wrist 2 in an actual video with actors and Keith Code walking you through his riding skills test! It is a great companion to the book. All of the information shared so far has been excellent and meant to be a help. Many of us have paid our dues so to speak to the asphalt gods over the years (both good and bad) so as I am an avid believer in "Knowledge is Power" principle. BTW, have you taken either the MSF Riders Safety Course or the GoldWing Riders Course...both excellent teachings for safe and sound riding! The biggest thing that always surprises me in talking to "seasoned" riders is they have no concept of "Counter Steering" and/or the proper "braking techniques" for straight way or curved road riding. It's amazing how many motorcyclists are afraid of using their front brake which provide 65% to 85% of brake power.

Best regards and keep learning!!!

Jim

[F6BPDX]

I understand your question, but all of what has been said rings true. I really don't think about it much any more. I do lean forward and change my riding position when I know I want to ride twisties, or know I am going to be pushing speed, or in heavy traffic. When just cruising around on the interstate I am mostly on the highway pegs, leaned against the back rest listening to the stereo. All the references about you being new, or relatively short in experience were not meant to be derogatory in nature, but rather meant to be as helpful as possible. Most of these guy's here seem to be more than willing to help anyone because most of us have been there and or seen the outcome from those that think they know more than they actually do.
I hope you have a great time on the F6, and ride safely.
Jim

Jim,

I didn't feel that anyone was being unhelpful or harsh on me for being new. I knew full well by posting the question that I didn't have near the experience levels of most here.

I am loving the ride and the community. :yes:

[F6BPDX]

F6BPDX,

You can also get the Twist of the Wrist 2 in an actual video with actors and Keith Code walking you through his riding skills test! It is a great companion to the book. All of the information shared so far has been excellent and meant to be a help. Many of us have paid our dues so to speak to the asphalt gods over the years (both good and bad) so as I am an avid believer in "Knowledge is Power" principle. BTW, have you taken either the MSF Riders Safety Course or the GoldWing Riders Course...both excellent teachings for safe and sound riding! The biggest thing that always surprises me in talking to "seasoned" riders is they have no concept of "Counter Steering" and/or the proper "braking techniques" for straight way or curved road riding. It's amazing how many motorcyclists are afraid of using their front brake which provide 65% to 85% of brake power.

Best regards and keep learning!!!

Jim

I did take the MSF (Team Oregon) course as it is required to get an endorsement here, and I feel it was worth every penny even if it hadn't been required I would have been glad I had taken it.

[Scotrod]

Turn your head and eyes,

That's one of my biggest shortcomings / bad self-taught habit's. Not so much that I stare at the front wheel, but I need to look further,,,

[Big Dawg]

This is a little extreme, but the same principals apply, Turn your head and eyes, move over towards the inside of the corner, Down shift, Trail brake (front brake) to the apex, toes on the pegs.

This picture is our new world Champion in Moto GP. His name is Marc Marquez and he is 20 years old. Needless to say, he is the best in the world today.

BTW, he was recorded at 62 degrees of lean angle and no, he didn't crash!

[Big Dawg]

interesting video here from the final race of the season last weekend.

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2013/MotoGP%20Rewind%20Valencia

[F6BPDX]

interesting video here from the final race of the season last weekend.

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2013/MotoGP%20Rewind%20Valencia

I watched it live at 5am...ugh. Marc is a crazy person and so is Jorge.

[BARRYS770]

interesting video here from the final race of the season last weekend.

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2013/MotoGP%20Rewind%20Valencia

I noticed that all of these extraordinary riders were using motorcycle tires. Where are the dark side riders????

Barry

[1951vbs]

I noticed that all of these extraordinary riders were using motorcycle tires. Where are the dark side riders????

Barry

Here you go. I think Bigdawg rides with this guy, Yellow Wolf. Pretty sure he is running a CT.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDVJFDblQ2A

[Hornblower]

I noticed that all of these extraordinary riders were using motorcycle tires. Where are the dark side riders????
Barry

By this line of reasoning, you also don't see extraordinary racers selecting the F6B for Moto GP. Does that mean the F6B is not a great bike? Obviously not!

Beyond that, dark side riders don't lean at 62 degrees and, I'm assuming, neither do you :icon_doh: For the record, I don't recall anyone suggesting extreme riding on car tires. What I do recognize is that for normal and even very spirited riding, dark side riders enjoy some distinctive advantages. There are legitimate reasons for so many going this route. That said, it's certainly not for everyone but it has become a legitimate, accepted choice for many bikes and styles of riding. To each his own!

[JesseS]

Having ridden sport bikes a lot, and having ridden in Europe, I tend to be aggressive in cornering. I sit up and lean a bit forward, head stays upright at all times (tilting your head in a turn is a good way to misjudge road angel & depth ), I tend to neutral steer most of the time ('pushing' into the inside handlebar) to minimize the effort needed to overcome the bikes inertia in changing direction (the F6 'snaps' down and back up well) . I find most other riders tend to take the twisties quite a bit slower than I want to, but everyone needs to ride their ride and stay within their capabilities, and have fun of course.

[Limbuck]

The guy following that Yellow Wing weren't slouching. Damn that got my blood flowing. E-a-s-y now,,,

I be riding this w/e if it ain't wet. i'm blessed with twisties in every direction.

[Scotrod]

I'm THE FASTEST in our group, BAR NONE!!!

EACH and EVERY time!!!!

EACH and EVERY corner!!!!

ZERO exceptions!!!!!

(It's just me and the wife,,,, and she's real dayum slow!!! LOL!!!)

Goin fast can be fun. I got most all of that out of my system years ago.

Enjoy your ride!

[Big Dawg]

First of all, None of the advice that I have supplied is my own. I have collected it from various sources over the years I have taken riding schools, road racing schools, and spent years riding sport bikes and a few years road racing bikes. All the information is available to you and it is cheap and easy information. The problem with it is; it is worthless without practice! If you want to learn to ride at a quicker pace, then ask someone to coach you and listen to what the have to say. I have taught a lot of folks the proper technique for going around corners. I have had some not so good results with those who followed and said they knew how to ride. I do not go fast on the straight a ways, especially in the mountains, It takes a lot of practice to figure out how fast you can approach a corner and navigate though it. There are also several different techniques for taking a corner, and several different factors that could dictate which method is best at that moment. It all goes back to one of the statements that I made in an earlier post. Situational awareness. Conditions change, sometimes in moments. If you want to challenge yourself, Learn your bike, be comfortable, downshifting and using the front brake. Be comfortable leaning the bike over and be smooth! Enjoy, be safe. be smart.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-jb6FIzx-A

[Hornblower]

The guy following that Yellow Wing weren't slouching. Damn that got my blood flowing. E-a-s-y now,,,


Hey, Ricky...my thoughts exactly. Man, if that video doesn't get you going, nothing will :yikes:

[dickiedeals]

I noticed that all of these extraordinary riders were using motorcycle tires. Where are the dark side riders????

Barry

What he said................Dickie

[Hornblower]

What he said................Dickie

Well, we're right here, dude :icon_doh:

[Scotrod]

D-siders are out there,,, pretty rare, but there. Quite a few bikes here in Houston, and every once in a blue moon you'll see one.

I'm tickled, they're tickled, no worries! 'all/right'