Cold Stumble

[GaTeach]

Has anyone cured the cold stumble?

[shooter]

Teach , I've never had it. I've heard others talk about it. I do have the Guhl flash but rode it three years before that. I mostly run Shell 93. Not trying to start that debate. If you haven't run any Lucas or Seafoam in the bike you might try that. I believe it's caused by a lean condition. A good cleaner might help. With your mileage have you had a set of plugs installed?

[GaTeach]

I haven't had new plugs. My mechanic thinks it's the fuel pump and they are replacing the fuel pump under warranty. (I don't think it's the fuel pump, but WTH, let them replace the fuel pump)

I've tried Seafoam.

Right now, I have to let her warm up to operating temp or else I get the stumble.

[53driver]

I think new plugs helped Isleen's stumble, but it's still there.
I'm getting an ECM to Guhl soon - too much performance going to waste in the name of the EPA.

While I'm waiting/getting the reflash, I'm going to run a full can of seafoam in the next 3 tankfuls just to ensure her pipes are clean.

It's embarrassing riding out of the driveway and have the bike buck and hiccup.....

[Sorcerer]

On my 13 I learned to start the bike, zip the jacket, put the helmet on, put the gloves on and at under 40-45* plug in the heated gear. The bike was sufficient to ride with some care. My 14 doesn’t have the cold stumble but does have an high idle for a short time. Longer when bellow 45-50*. I know, it’s not really a fix. My 13 had not so nice sounds coming from the clutch/ transmission at any temperature bellow 50* until it reached operating temperature.

[shooter]

I haven't had new plugs. My mechanic thinks it's the fuel pump and they are replacing the fuel pump under warranty. (I don't think it's the fuel pump, but WTH, let them replace the fuel pump)

I've tried Seafoam.

Right now, I have to let her warm up to operating temp or else I get the stumble.

Maybe not so much the pump as the in tank screen/ filter. I still think it's a lean condition , lack of fuel.

[53driver]

Maybe not so much the pump as the in tank screen/ filter. I still think it's a lean condition , lack of fuel.

If it's a screen or filter issue, why would it seemingly disappear at operating temperature?
I been chasing this one for 50,000 miles now....I'm ready to believe almost anything!

[olegoat345]

Stumble? guess I don't have one, 'cause I'm not sure what it is. I get a bit higher rev when I first start my bike, after a minute or 2 it's down to normal.

[shooter]

If it's a screen or filter issue, why would it seemingly disappear at operating temperature?
I been chasing this one for 50,000 miles now....I'm ready to believe almost anything!

Once the engine is warmed up it requires less fuel to operate efficiently.

[53driver]

Once the engine is warmed up it requires less fuel to operate efficiently.

Okay, I'm with you....but I'm still missing something (probably VERY basic):
Let's say that the motor requires "x" amount of fuel when at idle cold, and let's say needs "x/2" when idle warm.
When I crack the throttle at cold to get going - let's say that requires "2*x" of fuel - the motor hiccups almost to the point of stalling, regardless of clutch lever position.

If this was a screen or filter issue, would it then make sense that 'anytime' - warm or cold - I needed "2*x" amount of fuel the motor would at least burp?

Again, I am NOT being willfully ignorant here, I am just not getting it.
Thanks,
Steve

[flat6bagger]

I have the stumble.
I just let it warm up or give it a bit more gas/feather the clutch for a split second when I take off cold.
Until someone mentions it,I do not notice it.
As far as it being a filter or screen issue,I don't think it has anything to do with that.
Here is why.
There appears to be more Goldwings/F6Bs with the stumble than don't have it.
Every one of them has different miles on them.
I don't believe all of these bikes can have a filter/screen issue.
On a side note...the stumble as it is called has never caused a concern for me.
I just ride.:)

[shooter]

I'm not saying that's it Steve. Just supposition. A cold engine can require twice as much fuel as a warm engine. That's why it goes away when it warms up. It could be in the programming in the ECU. Lots of could be all over the place. There is only one constant. It's short on fuel when cold.

[flat6bagger]

"It's short on fuel when cold"

That is a fact.

[53driver]

I am in FULL agreement that there is a fuel flow issue.
But is it one or all of the following:
Electrical
- The demand signal
- The demand signal feedback loop
- A sensor somewhere giving false information
Mechanical
- The fuel pump not responding to the demand flow (main jet / pilot jet issue??? lol )
- A filter
- Mechanical feedback in the throttle body

I believe it's in the ECU - no one with a Guhl reflash has had this problem.
Can't wait to get mine to him and back.

I also want to see if GaTeach's mech had the solution.

[shooter]

Steve I do know a couple guys on another forum that still had a problem. Sent the ECU back to Guhl a second time and no issues after that. If it was me I would tell Don about the problem so he could pay special attention to that area.

[Pumper]

Steve,
I believe also it is in the ECU...Fuel injection has a cold start circuit. That is controlled through the ECM of whatever vehicle it is.
Cold start stumbles, typically are a result of misinformation being sent (sensor) to the ECM. Hence the ECM will produce a lean condition.

Sensors are hard to diag. as they have gremlins and we all know how hard they are to catch...

Has anyone had a code thrown due to the stumble??

[shooter]

On a side note , you get that flash you better hang on in first and second. It ain't the same bike.

[53driver]

Steve,
I believe also it is in the ECU...Fuel injection has a cold start circuit. That is controlled through the ECM of whatever vehicle it is.
Cold start stumbles, typically are a result of misinformation being sent (sensor) to the ECM. Hence the ECM will produce a lean condition.

Sensors are hard to diag. as they have gremlins and we all know how hard they are to catch...

Has anyone had a code thrown due to the stumble??

Interesting point! I'll check the manual and see if there is a code for that that perhaps the MIL doesn't light up for as the bike does continue to run.
Thanks mate.

[53driver]

Steve I do know a couple guys on another forum that still had a problem. Sent the ECU back to Guhl a second time and no issues after that. If it was me I would tell Don about the problem so he could pay special attention to that area.

I shall - thank you.


On a side note , you get that flash you better hang on in first and second. It ain't the same bike.

I don't think I'll have a problem with that part!!!

[flat6bagger]

There is a guy on a GL forum that had to have his reflashed 3 times I believe he said before it took care of it.

[opas ride]

I have learned to live with this minor issue..Start the bike, put on helmet and other gear wait a few seconds then back down my driveway slowly, take it a little easy getting out my sub and by the time I get to the main roads I am generally good to go....No big deal after 4 or so years now....Ride safe

[GaTeach]

On a side note , you get that flash you better hang on in first and second. It ain't the same bike.

Wait what????

[shooter]

Opas I think the problem is some people have it lot worse than others. I think Teach could ride a carbureated mule but she has problems with that B when it's cold. It's not if you can but rather should you have to. The answer to that is no. You have the right to expect your bike to perform properly. And if the problem is bad enough it can be a hazard.

[GaTeach]

Opas I think the problem is some people have a lot worse than others. I think Teach could ride a carburated mule but she has problems with that B when it's cold. It's not if you can but rather should you have to. The answer to that is no. You have the right to expect your bike to perform properly. And if the problem is bad enough it can be a hazard.

Lol. I know that of SG doesn’t warm to operating temps, she will stumble. That’s ok 99% of the time, but sometimes I’m in a “hurry” and usually that’s when I’m in the parking lot with fifty high school students watching. Lol

[shooter]

Wait what????
You'll know WHAT if you ever ride a Guhl flashed B. On a hard 1-2 change at about 6300 rpm I can get a little air under that front tire. And that Alpin leaves a nice black mark on the pavement.

[shooter]

Lol. I know that of SG doesn’t warm to operating temps, she will stumble. That’s ok 99% of the time, but sometimes I’m in a “hurry” and usually that’s when I’m in the parking lot with fifty high school students watching. Lol

Lol , yeah that's when you really NEED to look cool. Lmao

[GaTeach]

You'll know WHAT if you ever ride a Guhl flashed B. On a hard 1-2 change at about 6300 rpm I can get a little air under that front tire. And that Alpin leaves a nice black mark on the pavement.

Oh my. Too many MCs around here for me to have that capability. Lol.

[GaTeach]

Lol , yeah that's when you really NEED to look cool. Lmao

You know I talk way too much shit to be stumbling in the parking lot!!!!

[tenxxx]

There are a few fixes that some owners have had luck with. NGK plugs were supposed to help.
Flashing is the only real way to go.
Mine does it but I know how to use the throttle to get past it. Just be aware of it and don't goose it while its cold.
Mine also has a high idle while its cold. All my cars do as well. Normal for injected motors.
And the noise coming from the clutch while its in neutral, the service man says he's herd worse.
I could go on but that takes away from my riding time.

[53driver]

I guess when things like this are out there.....it's enough of an issue.

http://electricalconnection.com/index.php/product/honda-gl1800-f6b-ecm-enhancer-stumble-stop/

Cheers,
Steve

[GaTeach]

I guess when things like this are out there.....it's enough of an issue.

http://electricalconnection.com/index.php/product/honda-gl1800-f6b-ecm-enhancer-stumble-stop/

Cheers,
Steve

Lol not in a million years

[GaTeach]

There are a few fixes that some owners have had luck with. NGK plugs were supposed to help.
Flashing is the only real way to go.
Mine does it but I know how to use the throttle to get past it. Just be aware of it and don't goose it while its cold.
Mine also has a high idle while its cold. All my cars do as well. Normal for injected motors.
And the noise coming from the clutch while its in neutral, the service man says he's herd worse.
I could go on but that takes away from my riding time.

I don’t know how others’ are, but I don’t have to goose it for it to stumble. Go ride :)

[53driver]

I guess when things like this are out there.....it's enough of an issue.

http://electricalconnection.com/index.php/product/honda-gl1800-f6b-ecm-enhancer-stumble-stop/

Cheers,
Steve


Lol not in a million years

Especially when you can get a Guhl reflash for about double that......

[VStarRider]

I also have the cold stumble. It is annoying, but only lasts for about 30 seconds, thank goodness, between 1/3 of the way to normal and 2/3 of the way to normal temp.

Be careful with the gas when making turns during the stumble.;)

[Zteve]

I've been using the Boosterplug for a couple years. It does work!

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/honda-1100-and-up-series-53c1.html

[Sorcerer]

I had my 13 dynoded and the tec told me that the bike ran very lean.

[53driver]

I had my 13 dynoded and the tec told me that the bike ran very lean.

Things that make one go: "Hmmmmmmm"

[53driver]

That there are TWO aftermarket products, plus the Guhl reflash, to fix this nonsense, tells me that Honda engineering needs to be rectified.

Unfortunately, it also tells me that Sweet Georgia will be getting a free fuel pump for no apparent reason - although I could be VERY, VERY wrong.

[shooter]

Teach it never hurts. A nice new pump is peace of mind.

[Joflewbyu2]

I've been using the Boosterplug for a couple years. It does work!

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/honda-1100-and-up-series-53c1.html

That tricks the ECM in thinking the air temperature is cooler/denser than it really is and enriching the fuel ratio. Simple cheap resistor on the air temperature sensor. The other simple way would be to put a resistor on the oxygen sensor to trick the ECM to think the outgoing exhaust is too lean so the ECM adds more fuel to enrichen the air/fuel ratio.

I added fuel injector cleaner to a tank of fuel and my stumble disappeared. Next fill up will be with ethanol free gas.

[GaTeach]

Teach it never hurts. A nice new pump is peace of mind.

Ummmmmmmmmmm especially as often as I ride with that yellow light on :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Pumper]

No worries..think of it as the old choke on carbed engines. Does the same thing (or is designed) to allow a richer mixture during cold starts...

[VStarRider]

That tricks the ECM in thinking the air temperature is cooler/denser than it really is and enriching the fuel ratio. Simple cheap resistor on the air temperature sensor. The other simple way would be to put a resistor on the oxygen sensor to trick the ECM to think the outgoing exhaust is too lean so the ECM adds more fuel to enrichen the air/fuel ratio.

I added fuel injector cleaner to a tank of fuel and my stumble disappeared. Next fill up will be with ethanol free gas.

I am not a mechanic or a physicist, but I did stay at Holiday Inn Express in Albany once (very generous continental breakfast and nice rooms).

For whatever it is worth, I read that the ethanol in gas actually serves a cleanser; after all, it is alcohol; and that fuel injector cleaner has become obsolete. I am not saying you or anyone else is wrong, just parroting what I read. In my own experience, ethanol gas is a big no-no in carbureted two-strokes because the cleansing action can free up grime that would otherwise just stay in the bowl or other parts of the carb but get washed away and end up in bad places. This, in turn, can partially plug a jet, creating a lean condition ... and a lean condition on a two-stroke = pistons melting.

[tenxxx]

Steve,
I believe also it is in the ECU...Fuel injection has a cold start circuit. That is controlled through the ECM of whatever vehicle it is.
Cold start stumbles, typically are a result of misinformation being sent (sensor) to the ECM. Hence the ECM will produce a lean condition.

Sensors are hard to diag. as they have gremlins and we all know how hard they are to catch...


Has anyone had a code thrown due to the stumble??

There would be no code since the ECU thinks its doing what its supposed to.
I read a lot about this before I got mine. It is programed that way, And Honda will do nothing under warrantee.
There are even units designed to fool it into thinking its seeing a different air temp than what it actually is.
But I guess they don't always work.
Its the air temp to fuel ratio thats causing the stumble.
The ECU is cutting the fuel mixture down before its warmed up enough.
They have this all figured out when you get the reflash done.
Getting my reflash done this fall.

[Allen Framen]

It looks like every member who has contributed to this thread is from the eastern half of the country. Is this a data point that is of any value? Fortunately, my 2016 has been flawless for 23,000 miles. I should probably go for a ride today just to make sure.

allen

[Zteve]

My bike is still under warranty and a re-flash might void it. The Boosterplug can simply be removed. It's $150 bucks well spent.'gw-smiley'

[Pumper]

Exactly..the bike is set to a lean condition, hence the stumble when cold. To much air and not enough fuel...The enriching circuit is not good on these machines. Could be bad mapping of the ECM, mismatched factory sensors (with ECM). Several components come into play on this circuit (cold start).

[Joflewbyu2]

Please investigate ethanol fuel before making assumptions. With water and vapor issues it is not recommended over ethanol free fuel.

[3Chief]

It looks like every member who has contributed to this thread is from the eastern half of the country. Is this a data point that is of any value? Fortunately, my 2016 has been flawless for 23,000 miles. I should probably go for a ride today just to make sure.

allen

I believe I've had the stumble once or twice, however I usually let the bike warm up for a minute or so as I close the garage and put on my gloves. Given my experiences with different vehicles and MC's I would tend to agree it's something with the ECM. I know my VTX gets crap for mileage if it's under 80 degrees out. It could be that wherever the B reads the temperature at gives a false value. My buddies truck (yes yes different animal) has an issue on the cold weather circuit on his ECM that causes similar issues to the stumble described by many here.

Sensors and gizmos oh my, sometimes I'd prefer that carbureted mule. Easier to diagnose and repair.

[Donncat]

Gents, on my 2013B I experienced that stumble only on one occasion or should I say for one tank of gas. I have always run premium fuel and after reading other threads I decided to try Mid-Grade gas and the stumble appeared and stayed till I filled up again. If you haven't tried Premium fuel exclusively you might just find the solution there. I do not get any stumble warm or cold, low RPMs or high. Just Sayin.

[rdbonds]

Mine had it on the factory plugs, but the OEM replacements seem to have solved it...for now.

[tenxxx]

Had the stumble yesterday. Drove through the grass to get to a parking lot. Was off the bike for 30 - 40 minuets.
When leaving I anticipated the stumble and was very careful. Gave it a little gas to get up a hill and nothing.
So I sat there idling for a minuet. Took off and it happened again. I'm in the grass, when it did go it set me sideways. But I was ready for it.
People looked at me like I did it on purpose,
Not fun!

[VStarRider]

Gents, on my 2013B I experienced that stumble only on one occasion or should I say for one tank of gas. I have always run premium fuel and after reading other threads I decided to try Mid-Grade gas and the stumble appeared and stayed till I filled up again. If you haven't tried Premium fuel exclusively you might just find the solution there. I do not get any stumble warm or cold, low RPMs or high. Just Sayin.

I will start running premium non-ethanol fuel in about a month, anticipating storage. I will have to see if that stumble goes away during those few tankfuls. Ever since this thread came up, I have been paying more attention to the stumble and have noticed that it does not occur during EVERY warm up after all...about every third or fourth.

[GaTeach]

Just to let y’all know:

My mechanic determined that the fuel pump was out of its tolerances and if we replaced the fuel pump, the stumble would cease to exist!

He called Honda and got the fuel pump replacement covered under warranty.

I picked SG up yesterday, cranked her, jumped on, and took off. And she immediately stumbled.

But....I have a new fuel pump at almost 80,000 miles and I’ve made a New Fuel Pump Resolution to QUIT running around with that orange low fuel light on.

(And I have no doubt that resolution will last about as long as my New Year resolutions last)

[Zteve]

Should re-name this thread to "LETS GET REAAAADY TO STUMBLE"

[VStarRider]

Should re-name this thread to "LETS GET REAAAADY TO STUMBLE"

Where is the "like" button?

Mine stumbled while making a sharp, low speed left turn in traffic. Not cute.

[Navvet]

Just to let y’all know:

My mechanic determined that the fuel pump was out of its tolerances and if we replaced the fuel pump, the stumble would cease to exist!

He called Honda and got the fuel pump replacement covered under warranty.

I picked SG up yesterday, cranked her, jumped on, and took off. And she immediately stumbled.

But....I have a new fuel pump at almost 80,000 miles and I’ve made a New Fuel Pump Resolution to QUIT running around with that orange low fuel light on.

(And I have no doubt that resolution will last about as long as my New Year resolutions last)

I don't remember, did I stumble walking away from the Taco Bell in Cherokee ???

[tenxxx]

should re-name this thread to "lets get reaaaady to stumble"

like

[53driver]

Isleen grew into the cold stumble after ~20k miles.
I've always used 87, per the owner's manual.
I'm trying 92/93 now and I'll see if that makes a difference.
Cheers,
Steve

[F6Bster]

I've followed the posts on this thread and thought several times about replying...but never did until now.

My 2016 F6B can move right out as soon as I start it. I always let it run about 30-60 seconds just to let oil get circulated and I take it easy on the throttle until it gets warmed up. Never have had a stumble. I wonder if it could be that here at 8,500 feet it runs just a little richer because of the thin air and that this helps. I know the ECM makes the adjustment for the altitude, but still could be a little richer than for those at lower elevations.

As for octane, at this elevation regular gas is 85 octane (same anti-ping result as 87 at lower elevations) and that's what I have run for 14k miles, except on a couple of trips that were a little lower in elevation and the regular gas was 87 octane. Have never had pinging on my F6B, even when rolling hard on the throttle.

My 2002 GL1800 Wing performed the same way until I was running back east at lower elevations and HOTTER temperatures -- crank it hard and I would get pinging with 87 octane so I used middle-grade in those cases.

[ReserveBum]

unless i let her warm up for @ 8 min or more.....she stumbles out of the driveway and up the street. Always done that, since new. Even happens if you go somewhere and shut her down for an hour or so, still have to let her warm up or.....You are going to be "That Guy". Mentioned it to dealer and all I got is " there is no issue, you just have to feather the clutch".
Funny you mention it but I do not recall the issue happening in Colorado.....but I did get a tankfull where I got 50mpg!

[2wheelsforme]

I have never had a stumble at all but I did appear to get really good gas mileage while in Colorado. I asked a local to high altitude and He said no it was just because I was riding slower. Once got 265 on a tank. Back to sea level and 220 miles tanks have returned. I think either the altitude or the type gas may be the reason.

[3Chief]

I have never had a stumble at all but I did appear to get really good gas mileage while in Colorado. I asked a local to high altitude and He said no it was just because I was riding slower. Once got 265 on a tank. Back to sea level and 220 miles tanks have returned. I think either the altitude or the type gas may be the reason.

+1, gas mileage is back down to normal.

[GaTeach]

I don't remember, did I stumble walking away from the Taco Bell in Cherokee ???

Wait, was that you in the bed of that pickup ordering nachos grande with extra quacamole?

[GaTeach]

Isleen grew into the cold stumble after ~20k miles.
I've always used 87, per the owner's manual.
I'm trying 92/93 now and I'll see if that makes a difference.
Cheers,
Steve

Shooter has convinced me to try the 93. Yesterday was my first tank. AND I filled up before the orange light came on. I’m quite proud of myself.

[2wheelsforme]

I don't see how a higher octane will help with a stumble. Octane is a measurement of a gasolines resistance to knock. I think what we call marine gas or pure gas instead of that 10% crap might help.

[53driver]

I've had the 92/93 in for two tankfuls now....no help with the stumble.
I'll try the "no-ethanol" solution next tank.....
Cheers,
Steve

[53driver]

Shooter has convinced me to try the 93. Yesterday was my first tank. AND I filled up before the orange light came on. I’m quite proud of myself.

That fuel pump will last forever with attention like that!

[tenxxx]

The lower octane has a lower flash temp. Dip your finger in it and blow,, gone like alcohol.
!0% ethanol lowers it even more. It burns very fast and a hot spark plug tip can ignite it before the spark gets there.[spark nock]
High octane= slower burn.
High octane higher flash temp. Burns longer and through out the power stroke.
Slower burn = more consistent, efficient flame. The hotter the spark the better the burn.
With high octane gas you can open the spark plug gap to max setting, if yer gonna run it all the time.
But what effect it has on the stumble is a good?

[53driver]

The cold stumble is definitely not a pinging or knocking issue.
It is a fuel to air ratio issue generated by the ECM when it gets input from the sensors that the fuel map then translates to a mix that is "not exactly correct" for the current conditions.
Is it the sensors providing false info?
Is it the ECM going wonky?
Is the fuel mapping artificially leaned out for EPA regulations?
Will non-ethanol make a difference given these variables?
If so, how?
Too many questions....time for a Makers Mark.
Cheers,
Steve

[Zteve]

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/hon...ries-53c1.html

Id'll fix dat B rite up

[53driver]

https://www.boosterplug.com/shop/hon...ries-53c1.html

Id'll fix dat B rite up

Quite possibly, but I'ma gonna spend about 2x that and get the dang fuel mapping fixed right & proper.
Along with a few other minor things I don't want - like a speed limiter....
Go go gadget Guhl!

Cheers,
Steve

[Joflewbyu2]

Changed the Denso plugs to the NGKs and the problem disappeared. Put fuel injector cleaner in with non ethanol fuel and the bike runs like a bat out of h3ll. It has never run better. I wouldn’t touch the Honda map. The unlimited R&D with years of experience racing on and off the track can not be beat. Why raise the limiter? Bikes power peak at 5500 rpms in top gear is 124 mph. Power peak starts to drop and there is only another 500 rpms before 6k redline which might give you another 10 mph. How often are you hitting the 124 mph?

[Zteve]

Quite possibly, but I'ma gonna spend about 2x that and get the dang fuel mapping fixed right & proper.
Along with a few other minor things I don't want - like a speed limiter....
Go go gadget Guhl!

Cheers,
Steve

I would've went with the remap also but Honda might get anal with the warranty.

I guess you could buy a spare ECU for warranty. So with ECU + re-flash your into it for quite a few hundred.

[GaTeach]

I would've went with the remap also but Honda might get anal with the warranty.

This fuel pump replacement was the last thing done to SG under warranty. She’s 2013, but I got her brand new late summer of 2015. So they replaced the fuel pump and now no warranty. I think I got a new battery under warranty, but I can’t think of anything else.

[unsub]

Changed the Denso plugs to the NGKs and the problem disappeared. Put fuel injector cleaner in with non ethanol fuel and the bike runs like a bat out of h3ll. It has never run better. I wouldn’t touch the Honda map. The unlimited R&D with years of experience racing on and off the track can not be beat. Why raise the limiter? Bikes power peak at 5500 rpms in top gear is 124 mph. Power peak starts to drop and there is only another 500 rpms before 6k redline which might give you another 10 mph. How often are you hitting the 124 mph?

Like button selected! :yes:

[GaTeach]

The cold stumble is definitely not a pinging or knocking issue.
If so, how?
Too many questions....time for a Makers Mark.
Cheers,
Steve

In which case you may want to revisit the answers in the morning.

[unsub]

This fuel pump replacement was the last thing done to SG under warranty. She’s 2013, but I got her brand new late summer of 2015. So they replaced the fuel pump and now no warranty. I think I got a new battery under warranty, but I can’t think of anything else.

This cleared something up for me. I had a question about warranty this late..:yes:

[GaTeach]

Like button selected!

I love your sig line!

[53driver]

Changed the Denso plugs to the NGKs and the problem disappeared. Put fuel injector cleaner in with non ethanol fuel and the bike runs like a bat out of h3ll. It has never run better. I wouldn’t touch the Honda map. The unlimited R&D with years of experience racing on and off the track can not be beat. Why raise the limiter? Bikes power peak at 5500 rpms in top gear is 124 mph. Power peak starts to drop and there is only another 500 rpms before 6k redline which might give you another 10 mph. How often are you hitting the 124 mph?

The few times I have hit it? I needed a few more MPHs.....
I'm running NGKs - no joy.
Done the fuel injector cleaning, MMO, Sea Foam, STP, etc.
Got a spare ECM (for warranty issues) - time to get 'er done!

[53driver]

In which case you may want to revisit the answers in the morning.

Truer words never spoken....but here I am!

And...I'm off to bed.

[GaTeach]

Truer words never spoken....but here I am!

And...I'm off to bed.
I know we're in different time zones but I don’t think it’s morning yet. Have another!

[53driver]

I know we're in different time zones but I don’t think it’s morning yet. Have another!

Effing DAMN good idea!!!!!!
I'm on it!!!!!
In bed with adult beverage on the night stand....life is grand!

[unsub]

Effing DAMN good idea!!!!!!
I'm on it!!!!!
In bed with adult beverage on the night stand....life is grand!

Idea. If that does wonders for the soul, maybe a few drops in the tank is what the bike is looking for? This could be a breakthrough!

[53driver]

Idea. If that does wonders for the soul, maybe a few drops in the tank is what the bike is looking for? This could be a breakthrough!

Not sure about "wonders for the soul" or if it "makes the soul wonder."

But either way, maybe some "premium distillate from Kentucky" would make Isleen happier?!?!?
I'll try anything right now.....
Cheers,
Steve

[tenxxx]

The lower octane has a lower flash temp. Dip your finger in it and blow,, gone like alcohol.
!0% ethanol lowers it even more. It burns very fast and a hot spark plug tip can ignite it before the spark gets there.[spark nock]
High octane= slower burn.
High octane higher flash temp. Burns longer and through out the power stroke.
Slower burn = more consistent, efficient flame. The hotter the spark the better the burn.
With high octane gas you can open the spark plug gap to max setting, if yer gonna run it all the time.
But what effect it has on the stumble is a good?

Forgot to mention that higher octane also burns a bit cooler.

[Allen Framen]

So, after a quick catch-up read, it seems like we're down to: Maker's Mark helps with the stumble. Right?

allen

[2wheelsforme]

It might not cure it but it will help you not care!

[Pumper]

The cold stumble is definitely not a pinging or knocking issue.
It is a fuel to air ratio issue generated by the ECM when it gets input from the sensors that the fuel map then translates to a mix that is "not exactly correct" for the current conditions.
Is it the sensors providing false info?
Is it the ECM going wonky?
Is the fuel mapping artificially leaned out for EPA regulations?
Will non-ethanol make a difference given these variables?
If so, how?
Too many questions....time for a Makers Mark.
Cheers,
Steve

Steve, You have a valid point there: EPA regulations. cause mfgs. do all sorts of inventive ideas. Just ask VW how far they will go...

[GaTeach]

There was a guy on one of the F6B facebook pages talking about this. He mentioned the O2 sensors.

[53driver]

There was a guy on one of the F6B facebook pages talking about this. He mentioned the O2 sensors.

You should invite hime to join this discussion - unless of course he's unwilling or unable.
I welcome ALL input on this topic.
Cheers,
Steve

[tenxxx]

I guess when things like this are out there.....it's enough of an issue.

http://electricalconnection.com/index.php/product/honda-gl1800-f6b-ecm-enhancer-stumble-stop/

Cheers,
Steve
Ya, adjustable. I like choices.

[ckwizard]

I have the stumble on my 13 but if I let it warm up so the temp needle moves a tick or two it's gone.
This tells me that the base map is too lean at warm up and would need to re-program to eliminate it.
But like I said it's not a problem because I let it warm up.

[GaTeach]

I have the stumble on my 13 but if I let it warm up so the temp needle moves a tick or two it's gone.
This tells me that the base map is too lean at warm up and would need to re-program to eliminate it.
But like I said it's not a problem because I let it warm up.

When I first got SG, she would only stumble if I didn't let her idle drop down to normal. Then I had to let her warm up until the temp needle moved "a tick or two" or she would stumble. Now she has to warm to operating temp or she stumbles.

[DaWadd]

My 13 will do it when cold. Tried premium fuel, ecm reset, new plugs, nothing cured it. I know when it will happen(needle at second line) so I adjust how I apply throttle for the 10 seconds or so that my bike is in that mood.

[Kokomo Kevin]

I got a red 13 like teach, yes she stumbles a bit, I just take off out of neighborhood and leave it in 3rd gear around 3K RPM for a while, she warms up fast!

[6gun]

I may be wrong but I believe our problem is CARB. They tend to be the strictest measure of everything. If you want to sell it in California, you must meet CARB requirements. There are more than a few people living in California so most companies want to sell there. All of my new lawn equipment runs terrible until they warm up. Once warmed up they perform brilliantly. I have a chain saw that needs a simple carburetor adjustment. They have very cleverly designed it so that only their unique tool will fit. It is against the law for me to own the tool. My point is - I think Honda has purposely mapped the cold engine fuel curve on our bikes at the ragged edge. I do not think Honda wanted to do this. I believe they were forced to do this. My motorcycle running to lean when cold is somehow compensating for your farting cow.

[tenxxx]

I may be wrong but I believe our problem is CARB. They tend to be the strictest measure of everything. If you want to sell it in California, you must meet CARB requirements. There are more than a few people living in California so most companies want to sell there. All of my new lawn equipment runs terrible until they warm up. Once warmed up they perform brilliantly. I have a chain saw that needs a simple carburetor adjustment. They have very cleverly designed it so that only their unique tool will fit. It is against the law for me to own the tool. My point is - I think Honda has purposely mapped the cold engine fuel curve on our bikes at the ragged edge. I do not think Honda wanted to do this. I believe they were forced to do this. My motorcycle running to lean when cold is somehow compensating for your farting cow.

I like my cow lean. So I can put up with a stumble burger now and then.

[Kokomo Kevin]

Damn Communists in Kalifornicate, Would bet Aunt Maxine or Aunt Nancy is the root cause.......