New (Really) Bikes from H-D

[F6Dave]

I see that Harley Davidson is bringing out a pair of new bikes next year, both with water cooled V-Twins. There's the 975 cc 'Bronx' and the 1250 cc 'Pan America', an adventure bike. These are the most interesting (to me) bikes H-D has brought out since the V-Rod. Since adventure bikes seem to be the only bright spot in the industry, this could be a smart move.

[Sorcerer]

Interesting indeed. However a long stretch from HDs previous target customer. I remember when HD ventured into dirt bikes sometime in the early 70s with 125cc models. If I remember HD rebranding another manufacturers bike with HD stickers.
Edit. Found on u tube 1976 XST 125cc two stroke. Ringy dingy ding ding

[Pringle]

The last thing I would want would be a low build quality adventure bike to leave me stranded out in BFE!

[Ghost Rider]

I was in my local Harley dealership last week looking for a harness for my electric gear. As I was leaving sitting next to the door was a 2020 Ultra Classic price on tag was $44,000 way to rich for me.

[pdxstriper]

Over $40K for 1970s technology with a nice paint job. Loud, hot, unreliable.

Who said 'a sucker is born every minute'?

It was your local Harley salesman ;)

[Cooter]

That's funny. I don't care who you are.

[olegoat345]

BUT IT"S A HARLEY !! $$$$$$
ride for 2 hours, work on it for 6 $$$$$.

[billsim]

Interesting indeed. However a long stretch from HDs previous target customer. I remember when HD ventured into dirt bikes sometime in the early 70s with 125cc models. If I remember HD rebranding another manufacturers bike with HD stickers.
Edit. Found on u tube 1976 XST 125cc two stroke. Ringy dingy ding ding

I bought two new rebadged bikes back in 1972. A 1972 350 Sprint SS (single cylinder) and a 1972 125cc Rapido (street/ dirt). The bikes were fun but the vibration had me replacing the speedo and the tail light assemblies a few times. That was back in the AMF days.

[Cali261]

BUT IT"S A HARLEY !! $$$$$$
ride for 2 hours, work on it for 6 $$$$$.

7032

[Cali261]

Harley picks a fight...and shoots itself in the foot.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90458267/harley-davidson-struggling-to-attract-new-customers-picks-a-legal-fight-with-diehard-fans

[JackB]

Why would they not want all that free advertisement
They should go after all the cars and trucks with the shield on the back of the vehicle.

[Frye]

I bought two new rebadged bikes back in 1972. A 1972 350 Sprint SS (single cylinder) and a 1972 125cc Rapido (street/ dirt). The bikes were fun but the vibration had me replacing the speedo and the tail light assemblies a few times. That was back in the AMF days.

The first bike I ever fell in love with was a bud's 350 Sprint. We used to run into each other hill climbing and trail riding in the local spill banks. I had what a 12 year-old buying motorcycles with his grass mowing/snow shoveling/de-tasseling money could afford. An old 1960's 2 stroke Suzuki 80 with dual rear sprockets. My bike sucked but it was mine. My older bud's (he had a drivers licence and didn't have to hide from the police riding to the woods) 350 Sprint would climb any hill out there. I had scooter envy big time! At that time I planned on buying one as soon as I was able, quitting school and bumming around the country on it. Luckily I got my girlfriend knocked up and got married at 17 instead. That was in 1974. Three wives and untold motorcycles later, I've still got a soft spot for the 350 sprints in-spite of (maybe because of) never having owned one.

[Frye]

That Pan American is expected to make 145 HP, that's damned respectable for a 1250 CC twin and a few years ago those numbers would have made Ducati proud. If they actually make them, that 145 HP will nearly double Harley's usual power in that size motor.

I'd be really happy to see HD make this bike.

Honda hasn't made a really significant HP/speed boost to its 6 cylinder bikes since 1997 and it shows. Yeah I know the new wings are supposed to be fast, but let's face reality, "no bike with a 112 mph top speed" can really be considered fast, at least no street bike.

If the 145 HP Harley numbers are rear wheel numbers, that will leave our B's in the dust. Then, maybe we'll see if Honda still remembers how to compete in the performance field. I sure hope they step up to the plate. There is no good reason Honda isn't getting 160 HP out of the 6 cylinder engines except perhaps, because they have no competitors pushing them to do so. In 1985 my Honda V65 cruiser would do 0-60 in 3 seconds and was still comfortable and dependable enough for long distance riding. Honda builds no touring/cruiser today that can compete with those V4's they built 30+ years ago. I know about the ST's of course, but they are sport-touring bikes. Not touring-sport-cruisers.

Of course, HD will probably decide against producing these bikes, and Honda will probably continue allowing liability attorneys and safety Nazis to run its engineering department but it doesn't hurt to hope for a resurgence of Muscle Bikes here in the heartland.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/harley-gives-a-first-glimpse-at-new-revolution-max-engine

[billsim]

The first bike I ever fell in love with was a bud's 350 Sprint. We used to run into each other hill climbing and trail riding in the local spill banks. I had what a 12 year-old buying motorcycles with his grass mowing/snow shoveling/de-tasseling money could afford. An old 1960's 2 stroke Suzuki 80 with dual rear sprockets. My bike sucked but it was mine. My older bud's (he had a drivers licence and didn't have to hide from the police riding to the woods) 350 Sprint would climb any hill out there. I had scooter envy big time! At that time I planned on buying one as soon as I was able, quitting school and bumming around the country on it. Luckily I got my girlfriend knocked up and got married at 17 instead. That was in 1974. Three wives and untold motorcycles later, I've still got a soft spot for the 350 sprints in-spite of (maybe because of) never having owned one.

I loved my bike for just the same reason. "It was mine". Bike was great for riding offroad and had a lot of torque. Biggest issue was kick starting. Occasionally it would kick back and bang the hell out of your leg. Still loved mine.

[valkmc]

That Pan American is expected to make 145 HP, that's damned respectable for a 1250 CC twin and a few years ago those numbers would have made Ducati proud. If they actually make them, that 145 HP will nearly double Harley's usual power in that size motor.

I'd be really happy to see HD make this bike.

Honda hasn't made a really significant HP/speed boost to its 6 cylinder bikes since 1997 and it shows. Yeah I know the new wings are supposed to be fast, but let's face reality, "no bike with a 112 mph top speed" can really be considered fast, at least no street bike.

If the 145 HP Harley numbers are rear wheel numbers, that will leave our B's in the dust. Then, maybe we'll see if Honda still remembers how to compete in the performance field. I sure hope they step up to the plate. There is no good reason Honda isn't getting 160 HP out of the 6 cylinder engines except perhaps, because they have no competitors pushing them to do so. In 1985 my Honda V65 cruiser would do 0-60 in 3 seconds and was still comfortable and dependable enough for long distance riding. Honda builds no touring/cruiser today that can compete with those V4's they built 30+ years ago. I know about the ST's of course, but they are sport-touring bikes. Not touring-sport-cruisers.

Of course, HD will probably decide against producing these bikes, and Honda will probably continue allowing liability attorneys and safety Nazis to run its engineering department but it doesn't hurt to hope for a resurgence of Muscle Bikes here in the heartland.
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/harley-gives-a-first-glimpse-at-new-revolution-max-engine

https://youtu.be/45TF1I1IqEg

I remember when the V65 came out. There was a brochure that claimed it would exceed the national speed limit in 1st gear. Wanted one bad but settled for a 86 1100 Shadow that I rode for almost 100k.

[F6Dave]

I had a 1984 Honda V65 Sabre. It had a few issues, like cam lobe wear and heat buildup that caused fumes on hot days. But it was smooth, comfortable, and incredibly fast. Mr. Honda was still alive back then and Honda was a completely different company. Motorcycles were his passion, and he made sure his company took a back seat to nobody. Honda dominated the industry.

As good as my F6B and the new Wings are, they don't push the envelope at all. Ducatis and the new Rocket 3 are much more exciting than anything Honda offers. So when Harley brings out a 1250 cc adventure bike with lots more power with our 1800s I can't help but wonder 'what happened to Honda'?

[Frye]

https://youtu.be/45TF1I1IqEg

I remember when the V65 came out. There was a brochure that claimed it would exceed the national speed limit in 1st gear. Wanted one bad but settled for a 86 1100 Shadow that I rode for almost 100k.

I can't remember what MPH red line was in first gear but 55 or over sounds right. In the lower two gears it was hard for my brain to keep up with the smoking rear tire, lofting front tire and shift point, seemingly all at once. I seem to remember shifting into third at 77 mph (near red line) would pick the front wheel back up and light the rear up again and it had 6 gears! Sixth was an OD though and I don't think it could pull redline in 6th. I had it to 125-130 many times and it was still accelerating hard. Mine would start to get unstable above that though (probably the big clear fairing/windshield) so I still have no idea what the top speed was. Fast, for sure. I bought it new in 86. Until buying my B new in 2016 it was the only new bike I'd ever owned. It was for sure the fastest bike I've owned although my Valk was the easiest bike to go fast on I've owned if that makes sense? My B probably ties the Valk in that regard as long as I stay off gravel roads. I hate the linked brakes on gravel roads.

Twisting the throttle on the V65 made the rider feel like a "flea on the ass of a charging buffalo". It was truly thrilling but the occasional accidental wheelie at 65 while passing cars would make the heart race. It had a lot of "shaft effect" also. As in, getting hard on the throttle would raise the rear and extend the rear shocks somewhat and chopping the throttle in a hot corner could drop it back down, reduce your ground clearance and put a peg on the road. When I bought it the dealer strongly recommended a passenger backrest as he'd had a customer who shortly after buying a new one dumped his wife off the back on the interstate due to an accidental wheelie.

It was the easiest bike to ride wheelies on I've ever owned. With it's bottom end torque (could pull away from a stop, with a passenger and luggage without touching the throttle) and high red line I could ride 75 yard wheelies with the wife on the back and the wheel only a foot or so off the road. The rectangular headlight was superb and cut a hole in the dark of rural nighttime highways that could have killed rabbits.

On top of that, the self canceling turn signals worked better than my current ones, the forks were 0-6psi air adjustable and had a two position anti-dive adjustment that worked well. I rode that bike like I stole it for years, seldom made it through a tank of gas without seeing triple digits and the only problem I ever had with it was a broken fort brace caused by the back tire hooking up unexpectedly necessitating a sharp jab on the back brake to get the front end down. I made a new fork brace out of 1/4" plate steel and the problem was solved.

Every full size Honda after that should have had equal or better performance but they've only gotten slower since then.

At that time, Honda made the V65, Suzuki made the Madura, Kawasaki made the Eliminator and Yamaha made the VMax. Of the muscle bikes or power cruisers as they were sometimes called, only the Max remains. Occasionally during those years you'd also see a 6 cylinder Benelli Sei. They were rumored to be fast but although I saw one or two I can't speak for their performance, never saw one hammered. The VMax would toast my V65, but not by a lot. Other than the Max, few if any vehicles on the road at that time could stay with a V65. And few would be able to today.

[Frye]

Many times I wished I'd bought the Sabre instead of the Magna. For long distance and day to day riding I'm sure the Sabre would have been the superior bike and possibly faster too.

[F6Dave]

Many times I wished I'd bought the Sabre instead of the Magna. For long distance and day to day riding I'm sure the Sabre would have been the superior bike and possibly faster too.

I splurged and bought the Hondaline fairing, which was basically the same one that came on some later models of the CBX. It was a great looking bike and made a pretty good sport tourer, though the handling couldn't match it's awesome power.

At the time I remember reading that the Sabre had a slightly different header design, giving it a bit more power that the Magna. Something like 121 vs. 113 HP. Whether true or not, it was extremely fast. Mr. Honda made sure that his flagship motorcycles were second to none. If he were around today it would be interesting to see his response to a Diavel, Rocket 3, or K1600.