Possible blow out with fuse A?

[masonmike]

Hey Guys. I wonder if someone could help me here. I connected a tire inflator to my accessory port and boom. Now my radio and accessory port do not function at all and my clock doesn't keep time unless the bike is running. Everything else on the bike appears to be working fine. The only fuse I could see blown was the 3 amp next to the accessory port, which I have since replaced. Fuse A & B according to the service manual should only be serviced by the dealer. I attempted to remove A, but it's in there quite tight. I can't say for sure it's still fine, hadn't noticed it before. I was initially thinking I blew my radio amp, but then should that effect my clock, as well as my accessory port? Any comments would be appreciated.
Thank you.

[F6Dave]

I've never needed to use the tire pump on my F6B, but I was concerned that if I did I'd surely blow the fuse on the 12 volt accessory circuit. So last year I made an adapter to power the pump directly from the battery, using the quick-connector for the battery maintainer. Your experience confirms the accessory circuit can't handle much of a load.

[masonmike]

Thanks Dave, It appears my mistake is of use to the forum. It least that much is good.

[willtill]

Ya, I was researching this a little myself. That upper left F6B accessory terminal on the fuse box is only rated for 5 amps. I too, have wired a pigtail directly to my battery for connectivity for my trickle charger and 12v tire inflators. I have the pigtail fused for 15 or 20 amps (can't recall at the moment).

I run 12v tire inflators at a minimum of 10 amps.

O.P. maybe give your bike a reset. Disconnect the battery leads for a bit and then reconnect them. That could chase those gremlins away that you are experiencing. I don't think blowing the accessory terminal is going to knock out your main A and B fuses...

[F6Bster]

That’s my setup also Dave.

I've never needed to use the tire pump on my F6B, but I was concerned that if I did I'd surely blow the fuse on the 12 volt accessory circuit. So last year I made an adapter to power the pump directly from the battery, using the quick-connector for the battery maintainer. Your experience confirms the accessory circuit can't handle much of a load.

[98valk]

O.P. maybe give your bike a reset. Disconnect the battery leads for a bit and then reconnect them. That could chase those gremlins away that you are experiencing. I don't think blowing the accessory terminal is going to knock out your main A and B fuses...


I agree with the above. Give it a shot!

[masonmike]

I agree with the above. Give it a shot!

Thanks for the idea. I gave it a shot and those gremlins you speak of, still refused to vacate the premises. I managed to remove the "A" fuse and it was still good. The bike was totally dead without it. I imagine the "B" fuse would be the same. The real mystery, if it is a blown radio amp, why would the clock not continue to keep time when the bike is not on? As well the accessory port doesn't function. Sounds like the sort of job you leave with a mechanic over the winter months.

[98valk]

There is a guy, "techdude" on another site that is an expert on the wing's electrical. Google, "techdude goldwing" to get started. Good luck!

[F6Dave]

Please keep us posted. I'm interested in knowing where the problem was.

[98valk]

I don't know why it would have blown, but try fuse '29' (15a). It looks like it is for the radio. I think it is live voltage so could affect the clock?

[rdbonds]

masonmike - I'm sorry to hear about the issue. Looking at the fuse block schematic, it looks like the Aux powerlet and the radio share the same fuse (#21). Have you checked that fuse? At 15amps, I'd suspect it would go before the big 100amp mains.

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[SeaSteve]

I'll look at the schematic in my service manual tomorrow. To be more correct...Fuse #21 will supply 12VDC to to the Accessory "Relay". When you turn the Key to ON or ACC the relay is closed allowing 12VDC to the radio, the ACC Terminals via fuse #6, AND anything else Honda considers accessory. (I'm not saying there is any other "accessory", I just don't know.)

The part in the OP's description that worries me is the clock not working. 12VDC must be available all the time to keep the clock working. The voltage won't come from the accessory relay and won't be switched on and off with the key.

I would start by checking each installed fuse in the Fuse box. sometimes fuses fail but you can't see it visually. If you don't have a cheap $10 multimeter, buy one at an Autoparts store.
1. Turn the Key to ON.
2. Set the multimeter to 12V or higher "DC" not AC. You should see a "V" on the dial somewhere with "DC" or straight lines and not a tilde "~" wavy line. Each meter is different.
3. To test the multimeter, You should ALWAYS get 12VDC if you touch EITHER side of a good fuse with the RED lead and touch the bottom (-) terminal of the ACC Terminal with the Black lead.
4. Touch both multimeter lead tip to the exposed metal on EACH side of EACH fuse. It doesn't matter which side is touched with which Red/Black lead.
5. If you get NO reading the fuse is good...Or "shorted" and not dropping voltage. If it's open/blown you will see 12VDC (Red/Black correct) or -12VDC (Red/Black reversed). Again your just looking for any voltage reading.

[rdbonds]

SeaSteve - I agree with systematically testing all fuses as you've recommended.

You're absolutely correct regarding fuse 6 feeding that ACC relay, which then feeds ACC term via fuse 6. I suspected fuse 21, since OP also noted that he lost his audio system, and the ACC relay fed by fuse 21 feeds both. My copy of the manual is from a Full Wing, but I attached the page I think you're referring to below, sir.

Now that you mention that OP also lost his clock, and that it's constant (non-switched) 12v, I'm beginning to suspect fuse 22. According to the fuse map in my copy of the manual (2nd screen cap below) that is the constant 12v supply to the clock. I agree, though, that checking all fuses is a good next step.

Kind Regards.

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[masonmike]

Thanks for all your interest and the many suggestions guys. We have electrical engineers on this forum, good to know. Surprised by all the attention this thread was getting, I decided to take the suggestion and carefully double check the fuse box. By the way, the fuse box diagram sent does't resemble mine in the least. I have at least 8 empty spaces. That being said, when initially checking out the problem, I must have put the fuse for the clock back in the wrong spot. Behold!!! Now the clock works, as well as the radio! Yet, the radio has it's own separate fuse, which was perfectly fine. Another mystery? Problem solved! It was probably the reset by disconnecting the battery, that initially resolved the problem. Those damn gremlins! I'm sorry the solution wasn't more technical. Yes, I feel like an dummy, but a very happy dummy. Thanks again for all your interest.

[tenxxx]

The radio may use a fuse for the radio and a separate one for memory, channel presets.
Not sure some cars do. Just my 2cents.

[rdbonds]

masonmike - Glad to hear that your problem is resolved. Congrats!

Apologies for the somewhat cluttered fuse box diagram. Way back, back, back when I sourced my manual, the F6b ones were in short supply so I ended up with a manual for the full Gold. Wing circa 2010 if I recall correctly. While that means that it includes systems that the F6b does not (reverse, factory cruise, rear suspension adjustment, etc), it's been "close enough" for most things I've needed. :)

[F6Dave]

Thanks for keeping us updated. It's good to know that overloading the 12V power port (we used to call those lighter sockets) doesn't damage any expensive electrical components.

[F6Dave]

I think Honda's manuals covering the F6B were always in short supply. I was lucky enough to find one in 2014, and it even came with the fancy binder!

http://dchealy.com/valk/manual2.jpg

Here's the fuse box diagram for the F6B:

http://dchealy.com/valk/f6b-fusebox.jpg

[rdbonds]

That IS FANCY! :cool:

[98valk]

Thanks for all your interest and the many suggestions guys. We have electrical engineers on this forum, good to know. Surprised by all the attention this thread was getting, I decided to take the suggestion and carefully double check the fuse box. By the way, the fuse box diagram sent does't resemble mine in the least. I have at least 8 empty spaces. That being said, when initially checking out the problem, I must have put the fuse for the clock back in the wrong spot. Behold!!! Now the clock works, as well as the radio! Yet, the radio has it's own separate fuse, which was perfectly fine. Another mystery? Problem solved! It was probably the reset by disconnecting the battery, that initially resolved the problem. Those damn gremlins! I'm sorry the solution wasn't more technical. Yes, I feel like an dummy, but a very happy dummy. Thanks again for all your interest.

Good job, and thanks for the follow up! Which fuse was that that controlled the clock? TIA

[masonmike]

I'd have to get back to you on the number. I recall 3rd from the bottom on the right side column. Could have been #29. I still find it odd that the radio, intercom and USB port would not function at all without the clock fuse in place. As well the clock would keep time only while the bike was running. Whenever I turned off the ignition, the clock would reset back to 1:00. I find it odd that the clock and radio would share their function on two separate circuits. I'm sure there is a logical reason why Honda has done this. Again guys, thanks for your interest, very much appreciated.

[SeaSteve]

Problem solved! It was probably the reset by disconnecting the battery, that initially resolved the problem. Those damn gremlins! I'm sorry the solution wasn't more technical. Yes, I feel like an dummy, but a very happy dummy. Thanks again for all your interest.

Glad you got it fixed and it wasn't a bigger and expensive problem. (DOH! :confused: I completely forgot to look at my service manual yesterday.) You've learned electronics rule number one: It's usually the last thing somebody messed with!


Thanks for all your interest and the many suggestions guys. I decided to take the suggestion and carefully double check the fuse box...(W)hen initially checking out the problem, I must have put the fuse for the clock back in the wrong spot. Behold!!! Now the clock works, as well as the radio! Yet, the radio has it's own separate fuse, which was perfectly fine. Another mystery?

Probably the fuse box shape and SOME of the fuses are the same. Obviously different models have different electrical circuits and fuses but the layout is usually close. The "clock" fuse will be constantly powered so the clock keeps time when the key is off. Probably, that same 12VDC is needed to keep the radio stations memory the AUX USB selection, and individual audio settings stored. Must also be something beyond those needs to operate the radio. The ACC/Audio fuse is keyed through the ACC relay.

[F6Dave]

Here's a question for the electronics guys: why don't vehicle radios and clocks use non-volatile memory (like in flash drives) so the presets and clock time don't get lost when the battery is disconnected?

[Sorcerer]

Because they would need to incorporate a battery into each item. Now they would have to decide is it going to be a rechargeable battery or one like inside of things like computers, yes there’s button batteries in side your computer. If it were say a rechargeable battery it would also need a system to supply power to the charging system. That would be required of every thing that now goes blank when battery power is lost. $ and weight.

[rdbonds]

Sorcerer - 100% agree with you that the clock would need a battery still, to keep the time counting. For radio station presets, I think non-volatile RAM (EEPROM, etc) would work, since there's only the need for storage of information, not time-keeping. I agree with you though that even that small improvement is held up by cost, since volatile RAM is much cheaper.

[F6Dave]

I did some online research into the memory in automotive electronics. I always thought it would make sense to use non-volatile memory, which requires no power at all to retain information (like a USB flash drive), to store data like the station presets. Apparently newer 'infotainment' systems do use flash RAM to store information entered by the user. Modern vehicles store much more information than radio presets. They retain seat position settings, bluetooth phone and other streaming device ids, and favorite locations for the nav system. Reentering all of this after simply disconnecting the battery would be a chore. Since the newer Wings have Apple Carplay (and maybe added Android Auto) I wouldn't be surprised if they use non-volatile memory too.

On a related subject, I always wondered how those old car radios with the 5 mechanical preset buttons worked. It was pretty neat that you could tune to a station, pull a button out, then press it all the way to somehow store the dial location in that particular button. I finally got curious and found a diagram online. It's amazing how things worked back in the pre-digital age.

[SeaSteve]

Here's a question for the electronics guys: why don't vehicle radios and clocks use non-volatile memory (like in flash drives) so the presets and clock time don't get lost when the battery is disconnected?

It has to come down to cost. Why install non-volatile memory or a "watch" battery when you already have a constant 12VDC source. Yes, you would keep everything "stored" when one removes the leads to the battery but that SHOULD happen on very FEW occasions. Also it would take a LOT more to power a crystal oscillator and keep a timer/clock going than a standard USB has to simply refresh it's "stored" ones and zeros data.

It does make sense for the radio and other settings but adds more cost to an industry that has done it the other way for many years.

[F6Dave]

I know this went a little off topic, and thankfully the original problem was solved, however yesterday I got to see how newer vehicles store all the information we enter. My 4 year old car's battery was getting a bit questionable, thanks to sitting in the garage a lot during the year of COVID, so I replaced it. The car has a fairly high-end infotainment system, with satellite radio, nav system, and Sirius 'Travel Link' providing live traffic info and weather maps along with gas prices and even ski conditions.

When I powered it up the clock was an hour behind, so I assume it grabbed the non-daylight savings time from a GPS satellite. The tire pressures were blank, but those should refresh as soon as I drive it. But everything else I checked was there. It still has my AM/FM/sat radio presets. It has the Bluetooth pairing settings for 3 phones. It kept my memorized seat position. And it also has the recent POI addresses I searched for in the nav system. So it looks like newer vehicles are using flash RAM or some other kind of non-volatile memory to save most of the data we enter.

[98valk]

Thanks for all your interest and the many suggestions guys. We have electrical engineers on this forum, good to know. Surprised by all the attention this thread was getting, I decided to take the suggestion and carefully double check the fuse box. By the way, the fuse box diagram sent does't resemble mine in the least. I have at least 8 empty spaces. That being said, when initially checking out the problem, I must have put the fuse for the clock back in the wrong spot. Behold!!! Now the clock works, as well as the radio! Yet, the radio has it's own separate fuse, which was perfectly fine. Another mystery? Problem solved! It was probably the reset by disconnecting the battery, that initially resolved the problem. Those damn gremlins! I'm sorry the solution wasn't more technical. Yes, I feel like an dummy, but a very happy dummy. Thanks again for all your interest.

Just for future reference: Here is a diagram from my manual for a 2013 F6B. Maybe this is like yours? Fuse #29 is labeled "CLOCK FUSE". I should have simply looked at the label vs the schematics. :icon_doh:

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[masonmike]

Just for future reference: Here is a diagram from my manual for a 2013 F6B. Maybe this is like yours? Fuse #29 is labeled "CLOCK FUSE". I should have simply looked at the label vs the schematics. :icon_doh:

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Thanks 98 Valk, yes that is my fuse box and yes I agree, the label is far easier to read than the schematics. Still I managed to put the fuse for the clock in the wrong spot... UGH!!!
I can only say, that will be less likely to happen again.

[SeaSteve]

Thanks 98 Valk, yes that is my fuse box and yes I agree, the label is far easier to read than the schematics. Still I managed to put the fuse for the clock in the wrong spot... UGH!!!
I can only say, that will be less likely to happen again.

BOY, Thank God I've never done something as stupid as that! (wink,wink) Be there, do that but I didn't have to post it on a public forum when I did. :rolleyes: