Anti Drone

[Deer Slayer]

:biggthumpup: Well it was clouds and lots of rain today. So I pulled the left side header pipe off so I could get to the inside of the cross over. You will have to un plug the O2 sensor. It's plug is behind and slighty below the audio controls. I noted the crossover is the same id as muffler inlet. Rather than fully block the crossover I chose to weld in a disc with holes. The disc has lots of 1/8 holes. This will pass pressure and not as much noise.
I then installed my hooligan Honda GL1800 mufflers. This extra set has the front baffle removed and 3 extra holes on the outlet for a total of 4 outlets each.
Next I removed the single pipe baffle from both tips and install them. :Saweeet smilie:Daayyuuuummm ! I love the sound. I do not hear any drone. 5500 rpm shifts will put a big ass grin on your face. The rolloff from 5500 rpm is also sweet. :yikes:
Now I have to get Hornblower to ride my F6B and give me a grade.
Tune in for later update.
Yes I did ride in the rain..

[Deer Slayer]

'all/right' Rode 180 miles today. All types roads. The anti drone appears spot on. I can not detect any drone at any rpm. I do know that this sucker sounds great in 4th running between 2500 to 3500 rpm.

I still want to get Hornblower to check this system out. He is down in his back ( pray for him). I think he picked up a heavy wine glass. I did ride over and show off for him. He said my my set up is a 6 into 2 into 8.. Four outlets each muffler. I must say the hooligan mufflers are a tad loud.
More updates to follow. :039:

[bobbyf6b]

'all/right' Rode 180 miles today. All types roads. The anti drone appears spot on. I can not detect any drone at any rpm. I do know that this sucker sounds great in 4th running between 2500 to 3500 rpm.

I still want to get Hornblower to check this system out. He is down in his back ( pray for him). I think he picked up a heavy wine glass. I did ride over and show off for him. He said my my set up is a 6 into 2 into 8.. Four outlets each muffler. I must say the hooligan mufflers are a tad loud.
More updates to follow. :039:

Can we get some pics and video/audio of this please?

[Deer Slayer]

:icon_redface: I know a picture is worth a thousand words. Will post some soon.

[Hornblower]

Yes, DS dropped by yesterday afternoon to show off his exhaust mods :039:. Basically, he fashioned a perforated metal disc and welded it in the cross-over tube. The idea was to eliminate drone but to allow pressures to equalize. He is using OEM mufflers taken off a previous GW that had been given a life sentence for hitting and killing a deer (his second one) :shock: On that muffler system, he had drilled some pretty large holes to pump up the volume just a bit. As he mentioned, I am still recovering from a back "tweak" but drug myself outside to hear this new setup and I must say, the sound is very good. It has a deeper rumble that is quite nice. Some might say the sound is somewhat Porsche-like, at least, that's what came to my mind. My neighbors and I really enjoyed hearing him leave :icon_redface:.

Can we discuss drone just a bit more? What is it? I thought I knew what it was but some of us may be thinking of different things when we mention it. To me, drone is a very resonant and constant hum that can get pretty loud at highway speeds. Others describe drone as a varying noise, rapidly alternating from soft to loud. If the later is truly the definition, then, I don't have drone. This may explain why some with the same setup claim they have drone while others say they don't :shrug:. What do the rest of you think?

[Deer Slayer]

:yikes: HB this should be a good round of post:2cents:
To me drone is compared to a multi engine aircraft with the engines out of syn. This was done in WW II by air forces at night to keep the other side up all night. :woohoo:

[jakec]

HB, I agree with your definition of drone, A constant hum between certain RPMS, usually at highway speeds.
Jakec

[Deer Slayer]

:icon_redface: I know a picture is worth a thousand words. Will post some soon.

Ok, pix 1. note rust in the original tips. The tips are of mild steel. Insides of tips will be treeted with rust stop and holes will be filled. These are scrap mufflers from a deer mishap. My originals will just have 3 pipes per side. I will weld ss pipes to the holes and paint hi temp flat black along with inside of the tips. Work in progress. 3705 :cheers:

Ya'll mite want to look in your own tips. You will have to remove them and look in from inlet end.
7,000 miles, July 2013 on my tips.

[Hornblower]

Ok, pix 1. note rust in the original tips. The tips are of mild steel. Insides will be treeted with rust stop and holes will be filled. These are scrap mufflers from a deer mishap. My originals will just have 3 pipes per side. I will weld ss pipes to the holes and paint hi temp flat black along with inside of the tips. Work in progress3705 :cheers:

So...are you saying you will wind up with your own version of the 6-2-6?

[Deer Slayer]

So...are you saying you will wind up with your own version of the 6-2-6?

happygirl Uh Huh, with only paint cost. You know I am a cheep bastard. :pbt:

[Deer Slayer]

Generation one and two mufflers are the same. High quality stainless steel that lend to modification. Caution when or if you change Honda mufflers, insure the heat shield is in place on the right one! If not you may warm up stuff in the right bag. Read melt? :yikes:

[MichaelG]

Ok, pix 1. note rust in the original tips. The tips are of mild steel. Insides of tips will be treeted with rust stop and holes will be filled. These are scrap mufflers from a deer mishap. My originals will just have 3 pipes per side. I will weld ss pipes to the holes and paint hi temp flat black along with inside of the tips. Work in progress. 3705 :cheers:

Ya'll mite want to look in your own tips. You will have to remove them and look in from inlet end.

DS, this looks very similar to what I did to my OEM mufflers, and to the OEM tips. I have since that time removed those OEM mufflers, and tips, and....they are available for sale...if someone on this forum wanted to TRY out a set of OEM mufflers and tips that have already been drilled out, rather than drill your own. This would allow a rider to TRY out the drilled version, and if they didn't like it, then could reinstall their non-drilled mufflers.

I have since that time installed aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, and the drone is 100 % gone. I have always agreed with Deer Slayer as to where the drone is located, and what causes it, and what it actually is. I would say to any and all that have aftermarket mufflers.....the drone is NOT caused by your aftermarket mufflers, so don't be upset with the manufacturer or supplier, as it is not their fault. Honda simply built a good enough OEM muffler that it masks the drone. Once you remove those OEM mufflers, you will most likely....."most likely"...hear the drone, unless you strain your back from lifting too heavy of a wine goblet. :icon_wink:

Quite Frankly, I think the best set up for these bikes is the OEM mufflers and tips. But, as we all know, to each his own.:039:

I am happy with what I have now, and how the bike sounds, and performs, but given 20/20 hindshight, I would have stayed with OEM mufflers. My personal reasoning for making the change was more due to the "need" to feel the bike through the seat of the pants, because I cannot hear the bike with the OEM mufflers now. Due to my recent hearing loss, the bike sounds like it is an electric bike, when using OEM mufflers. That can be disconcerting when riding in twisties, as we get used to hearing our bikes, and knowing how it is performing, gear shifts, etc. By changing to aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, I can now "FEEL" the bike better.:shhh:

[Deer Slayer]

DS, this looks very similar to what I did to my OEM mufflers, and to the OEM tips. I have since that time removed those OEM mufflers, and tips, and....they are available for sale...if someone on this forum wanted to TRY out a set of OEM mufflers and tips that have already been drilled out, rather than drill your own. This would allow a rider to TRY out the drilled version, and if they didn't like it, then could reinstall their non-drilled mufflers.

I have since that time installed aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, and the drone is 100 % gone. I have always agreed with Deer Slayer as to where the drone is located, and what causes it, and what it actually is. I would say to any and all that have aftermarket mufflers.....the drone is NOT caused by your aftermarket mufflers, so don't be upset with the manufacturer or supplier, as it is not their fault. Honda simply built a good enough OEM muffler that it masks the drone. Once you remove those OEM mufflers, you will most likely....."most likely"...hear the drone, unless you strain your back from lifting too heavy of a wine goblet. :icon_wink:

Quite Frankly, I think the best set up for these bikes is the OEM mufflers and tips. But, as we all know, to each his own.:039:

I am happy with what I have now, and how the bike sounds, and performs, but given 20/20 hindshight, I would have stayed with OEM mufflers. My personal reasoning for making the change was more due to the "need" to feel the bike through the seat of the pants, because I cannot hear the bike with the OEM mufflers now. Due to my recent hearing loss, the bike sounds like it is an electric bike, when using OEM mufflers. That can be disconcerting when riding in twisties, as we get used to hearing our bikes, and knowing how it is performing, gear shifts, etc. By changing to aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, I can now "FEEL" the bike better.:shhh:
Hi Miles, hope you are mending well. After thought I may just keep my original mufflers with front drill for long trips. I love retirement one may change ones mind as required. :cheers:

[f6bdemon]

DS, this looks very similar to what I did to my OEM mufflers, and to the OEM tips. I have since that time removed those OEM mufflers, and tips, and....they are available for sale...if someone on this forum wanted to TRY out a set of OEM mufflers and tips that have already been drilled out, rather than drill your own. This would allow a rider to TRY out the drilled version, and if they didn't like it, then could reinstall their non-drilled mufflers.

I have since that time installed aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, and the drone is 100 % gone. I have always agreed with Deer Slayer as to where the drone is located, and what causes it, and what it actually is. I would say to any and all that have aftermarket mufflers.....the drone is NOT caused by your aftermarket mufflers, so don't be upset with the manufacturer or supplier, as it is not their fault. Honda simply built a good enough OEM muffler that it masks the drone. Once you remove those OEM mufflers, you will most likely....."most likely"...hear the drone, unless you strain your back from lifting too heavy of a wine goblet. :icon_wink:

Quite Frankly, I think the best set up for these bikes is the OEM mufflers and tips. But, as we all know, to each his own.:039:

I am happy with what I have now, and how the bike sounds, and performs, but given 20/20 hindshight, I would have stayed with OEM mufflers. My personal reasoning for making the change was more due to the "need" to feel the bike through the seat of the pants, because I cannot hear the bike with the OEM mufflers now. Due to my recent hearing loss, the bike sounds like it is an electric bike, when using OEM mufflers. That can be disconcerting when riding in twisties, as we get used to hearing our bikes, and knowing how it is performing, gear shifts, etc. By changing to aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, I can now "FEEL" the bike better.:shhh:

Miles,

Were you able to install torq loopz by cutting the exhaust pipes in place without removing entire exhaust system ??
If so, what size cutting wheel did you use and was the o2 sensors in front of the cut ?

Thanks
Rick

[MichaelG]

Miles,

Were you able to install torq loopz by cutting the exhaust pipes in place without removing entire exhaust system ??
If so, what size cutting wheel did you use and was the o2 sensors in front of the cut ?

Thanks
Rick


Rick, we did have to remove the header pipes off the bike, to allow us to make a very clean straight cut. We also removed the O2 sensors prior to doing any cutting, and the O2 sensors are located "behind" the cut, or aft of the cut.

"coffee"

[opas ride]

You know after reading, and being part of this aftermarket pipes issue and all the wasted time spent both on the web-site and screwing around with different options, methods, etc. etc......I think Miles is right on the "money" stating that the OEM exhausts and tips are probably the BEST way to go.... But as said by others , we bikers are always looking for ways to spend money or personalize our rides to our own liking and sometimes we can't see the "forest for the trees".....Oh well!!

[Deer Slayer]

You know after reading, and being part of this aftermarket pipes issue and all the wasted time spent both on the web-site and screwing around with different options, methods, etc. etc......I think Miles is right on the "money" stating that the OEM exhausts and tips are probably the BEST way to go.... But as said by others , we bikers are always looking for ways to spend money or personalize our rides to our own liking and sometimes we can't see the "forest for the trees".....Oh well!!

Agree. It is all in what you want, and to make your F6B look and sound as one wishes. I have a welder and plasma cutter and some crash mufflers, thus I must try different things and sounds. my 6 - 2 - 8 that I am running now is just LOUD:yikes: I completed my tips, blocked the holes left after drilling the spot welds from the single pipe baffles. Got after the rust and flat black on inside. And aluminum paint on the spot covers. Pix soon. I shall put them back on the bike tonight. I must say again, check the inside of your factory tips. Mean ass rust. You know the flake off type. The original baffles appear to hold the moisture. My F6B has 7 k miles and I got it in July. That is fast rust. :301: :cheers:

[MichaelG]

My F6B has 7 k miles and I got it in July. That is fast rust. :301: :cheers:


DS, maybe if you rode it more.......there would be less rust from just sitting around. :duck:

(oh no.......I didn't just say that....did I ?):shock:

:poke:

[Deer Slayer]

DS, maybe if you rode it more.......there would be less rust from just sitting around. :duck:

(oh no.......I didn't just say that....did I ?):shock:

:poke:

.notworthy. I am working on that Miles, I mean my miles. :poke: Photo of rust treated, paint and patched tips.

[Hornblower]

Went for a ride with Deer Slayer yesterday so we could compare exhaust systems. My setup is Torq Master Daytona's without baffles and no crossover mods. DS is sportin' a drilled-out OEM exhaust with a perforated disc welded in the crossover pipe. First of all, DS's bike is LOUD, probably due to overdoing it on the drilling. It sounds great, has a deep rumble, but generates too much noise for either of us going down the road. I could barely hear my Daytona's by comparison and they're not exactly what you would call quiet. Anyway, we did a 5th gear roll-on comparison and he was slightly faster which suggests that modding the crossover pipe wasn't a bad thing. Also, his mpg during our 200 mile or so run was about the same as before the crossover mod so again, no harm done. Based on these results, we will be doing the crossover mod on my bike the first chance we get.

[Deer Slayer]

Went for a ride with Deer Slayer yesterday so we could compare exhaust systems. My setup is Torq Master Daytona's without baffles and no crossover mods. DS is sportin' a drilled-out OEM exhaust with a perforated disc welded in the crossover pipe. First of all, DS's bike is LOUD, probably due to overdoing it on the drilling. It sounds great, has a deep rumble, but generates too much noise for either of us going down the road. I could barely hear my Daytona's by comparison and they're not exactly what you would call quiet. Anyway, we did a 5th gear roll-on comparison and he was slightly faster which suggests that modding the crossover pipe wasn't a bad thing. Also, his mpg during our 200 mile or so run was about the same as before the crossover mod so again, no harm done. Based on these results, we will be doing the crossover mod on my bike the first chance we get.

.notworthy. Hornblower I believe the home fried chicken will have to be attacked again. Twas very good. I removed the loud ass mufflers an reinstalled my front plate drilled Honda units. To me it has a nice sound above stock and you can hear the music on helmet ear phones. Thats all folkes. :039: happygirl

[Blotar]

Boy was I suprised when I got my Cobras yesterday and stayed up too late and got them installed. Went to work this morning and Viola, I know what drone is! I never even started the bike with the baffles in. the gutted Cobras were terrible going to work this morning. I was sick about it all day long. As soon as I got home, I stuck all the baffles in and started the beast up. (too quiet). Next I removed two baffles, no drone. Finally, I removed two more baffles and I couldnt believe that the drone was mostly gone but I had a little noise to make me happy! I guess there is some kind of resonance that just seems to fill my head. I finally know what drone is. Now I need to find out what torque loops are and how do I install them.
Blotar

[CobraUSA]

DS, this looks very similar to what I did to my OEM mufflers, and to the OEM tips. I have since that time removed those OEM mufflers, and tips, and....they are available for sale...if someone on this forum wanted to TRY out a set of OEM mufflers and tips that have already been drilled out, rather than drill your own. This would allow a rider to TRY out the drilled version, and if they didn't like it, then could reinstall their non-drilled mufflers.

I have since that time installed aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, and the drone is 100 % gone. I have always agreed with Deer Slayer as to where the drone is located, and what causes it, and what it actually is. I would say to any and all that have aftermarket mufflers.....the drone is NOT caused by your aftermarket mufflers, so don't be upset with the manufacturer or supplier, as it is not their fault. Honda simply built a good enough OEM muffler that it masks the drone. Once you remove those OEM mufflers, you will most likely....."most likely"...hear the drone, unless you strain your back from lifting too heavy of a wine goblet. :icon_wink:

Quite Frankly, I think the best set up for these bikes is the OEM mufflers and tips. But, as we all know, to each his own.:039:

I am happy with what I have now, and how the bike sounds, and performs, but given 20/20 hindshight, I would have stayed with OEM mufflers. My personal reasoning for making the change was more due to the "need" to feel the bike through the seat of the pants, because I cannot hear the bike with the OEM mufflers now. Due to my recent hearing loss, the bike sounds like it is an electric bike, when using OEM mufflers. That can be disconcerting when riding in twisties, as we get used to hearing our bikes, and knowing how it is performing, gear shifts, etc. By changing to aftermarket mufflers and Torq Loops, I can now "FEEL" the bike better.:shhh:

I agree that the drone issue is from the catalytic converters causing resonance.

[Blotar]

does anyone have any experience with putting a couple of holes in the Cat Converters to 'bust up' the resonance frequency?
Blotar

[Deer Slayer]

does anyone have any experience with putting a couple of holes in the Cat Converters to 'bust up' the resonance frequency?
Blotar

The Torque Loops will allow you to remove the cats. For me, I would not do in the cats as one may need them in the future and replacement will lighten your billfold. With a kit from Torque Loops you can return the cats to service if one needs to. :017: :cheers:

[Blotar]

do torque loops affect the original warranty?

[MichaelG]

do torque loops affect the original warranty?


Blotar, yes, removing the CATs and installing the Torq Loops does in fact affect the bikes' warranty.

And, for the last time, please read this carefully...the DRONE is NOT caused by the CATs. Despite what anyone else, or any other company may say, or tell you...It is a harmonic resonance that is located INSIDE the cross-over tube. The...CROSS-OVER TUBE.:icon_twisted:

[Scotrod]

. The...CROSS-OVER TUBE.:icon_twisted:

:poke:

'chill/pill'

:icon_biggrin:

[opas ride]

Probably a dumb question, or not, and maybe answered elsewhere, but if the drone resonance is in the cross-over tube , then why do the stock mufflers not make the drone sound?..Or do they...Have not ridden with the stocks so I do not really know...Just curious....

[Big Jay]

No drone from the stock pipes, and I can hear them now that I have a shield that sends the wind over my head."batsmiley"

[Deer Slayer]

Blotar, yes, removing the CATs and installing the Torq Loops does in fact affect the bikes' warranty.

And, for the last time, please read this carefully...the DRONE is NOT caused by the CATs. Despite what anyone else, or any other company may say, or tell you...It is a harmonic resonance that is located INSIDE the cross-over tube. The...CROSS-OVER TUBE.:icon_twisted:

Amen! :icon_ditto:

[MichaelG]

Probably a dumb question, or not, and maybe answered elsewhere, but if the drone resonance is in the cross-over tube , then why do the stock mufflers not make the drone sound?..Or do they...Have not ridden with the stocks so I do not really know...Just curious....

Opas Ride, that is a very sound question...pun intended.
The answer is that HONDA builds their mufflers well enough with ther intent of silencing the drone. That is it, in a nutshell.

:039:

[opas ride]

Thanks for the replies..As I said a while back I will ride the bike with the Cobra's when better weather comes, (Good Luck), and then decide if I want to put the stocks back on...Ride safe all....

[Blotar]

OK, Thanks for the info:
Now I understand what I saw about the 'soft plugs' in the crossover. I will do more research on previous posts with a clearer understanding. This is a Great Group! It feels a lot like the VRCC. I am having a huge amount of fun here and I still have a lot of catching up to do. My problem is I want all this stuff Now. Maybe I need to take a chill pill. LOL!
Blotar

[Deer Slayer]

Just so you may see a cat and cross over. 3805 :cheers:

[Blotar]

Thanks for the pic. does the header have to be removed to get a look at the inside of the crosover or is there enough flex to work a plug into the opening? Someone said that the ID of the crosover is the same as the ID of the muffler inlet. I havn't taken that measurement yet. I'm planning on finding a freeze plug or make one if I have to.
Blotar

[Mustangjake]

Blotar that was exactly what I was thinking just plug it with a freeze plug !
If it's not freezing tomorrow I am going to try it!
I know I live in Fl. But it's been in the 30s

PS: I don't have any Drone I am clueless to what it is !
just want to see what it does

[Deer Slayer]

Thanks for the pic. does the header have to be removed to get a look at the inside of the crosover or is there enough flex to work a plug into the opening? Someone said that the ID of the crosover is the same as the ID of the muffler inlet. I havn't taken that measurement yet. I'm planning on finding a freeze plug or make one if I have to.
Blotar

41 mm..:cheers: And you must remove it as you MUST NOT weld on a Goldwing. :yikes:

[CaptRob]

41 mm..:cheers: And you must remove it as you MUST NOT weld on a Goldwing. :yikes:

You guys are great! :rock:I was going to install torq loops because my new 6 into 6 drone. I think I will try your 41mm plug! Aprox how many 1/8" holes did you drill into the plug? Thanks. and if this works with the Cobras, I'll owe you one!!

[Deer Slayer]

You guys are great! :rock:I was going to install torq loops because my new 6 into 6 drone. I think I will try your 41mm plug! Aprox how many 1/8" holes did you drill into the plug? Thanks. and if this works with the Cobras, I'll owe you one!!

Around 15 size 1/8" holes. Used 4 tack welds. Placed about 1/4" into the pipe. Update, went to Key West 2240 miles gas mileage just over 38 mpg from 70 to 80 mph. I be happy.:cheers:

[Hornblower]

At this point, I don't believe there is anything particularly scientific about the size or number of holes that might get the best results. Until more people try different combinations and compare results, it's pretty much a shot in the dark. That said, what DS has experimented with so far doesn't seem to have hurt anything and may have improved the drone phenomenon. If I've done the math correctly, DS's mod leaves the crossover tube approximately 8% open.

As an interesting side-note, while in Daytona, DS and I spoke to the Cobra rep about this subject and his opinion was that closing off the crossover tube improves sound but possibly hurts performance. School is still out on that one as far as I'm concerned. In fact, before I did the mod on my bike, DS and I did a side-by-side roll-on comparison and also compared gas mileage and he came out slightly better on both accounts. Since doing the mod on my bike, we haven't checked again but I'm sure we will soon :icon_biggrin:

[Deer Slayer]

At this point, I don't believe there is anything particularly scientific about the size or number of holes that might get the best results. Until more people try different combinations and compare results, it's pretty much a shot in the dark. That said, what DS has experimented with so far doesn't seem to have hurt anything and may have improved the drone phenomenon. If I've done the math correctly, DS's mod leaves the crossover tube approximately 8% open.

As an interesting side-note, while in Daytona, DS and I spoke to the Cobra rep about this subject and his opinion was that closing off the crossover tube improves sound but possibly hurts performance. School is still out on that one as far as I'm concerned. In fact, before I did the mod on my bike, DS and I did a side-by-side roll-on comparison and also compared gas mileage and he came out slightly better on both accounts. Since doing the mod on my bike, we haven't checked again but I'm sure we will soon :icon_biggrin:

I must say this, I love my deep note, with the disc mod and Honda mod mufflers. ( muffler front plate opened and small hole pattern in muffler above the outlet again about 15 ea 1/8 holes. Baffle removed from tips. ):icon_cool: Price ain't bad also. :woohoo:

[CaptRob]

Around 15 size 1/8" holes. Used 4 tack welds. Placed about 1/4" into the pipe. Update, went to Key West 2240 miles gas mileage just over 38 mpg from 70 to 80 mph. I be happy.:cheers:

I was thinking about grinding a slot in that pipe and fabricate a disk with the holes and a 1" lip on both sides of half the disk , this would allow me to use the black clamp from stock pipes over the slit and flanges I put on the disk ! With or W/O gasket not sure on that yet
Maybe a custom clamp too to act as a splint stiffen that spot where I put the grinder. In think tank mode now"coffee"

[CaptRob]

I must say this, I love my deep note, with the disc mod and Honda mod mufflers. ( muffler front plate opened and small hole pattern in muffler above the outlet again about 15 ea 1/8 holes. Baffle removed from tips. ):icon_cool: Price ain't bad also. :woohoo:

Wish me luck! I would try that mod but spent all this dough on the cobras! So, if this plug mod works, I owe you a giant beer!:041:

[Hornblower]

Capt--The nice thing about the way DS went about plugging the crossover is that the entire process is reversible. There was NO cutting of the OEM piping whatsoever. This way, if you want to go back to stock, you simply grind through the 4 tack welds holding the plug in place and remove it. You never know when you want to return to stock :icon_biggrin:

[CaptRob]

Capt--The nice thing about the way DS went about plugging the crossover is that the entire process is reversible. There was NO cutting of the OEM piping whatsoever. This way, if you want to go back to stock, you simply grind through the 4 tack welds holding the plug in place and remove it. You never know when you want to return to stock :icon_biggrin:

Damn it !:banghead: I guess I'm going to the garage to put the stock pipes back on!!:banghead::banghead::bang head:

There will be a set of 6 into 6 black cobras for sale with 30 minutes on them:icon_redface: