TIRES TIRES TIRES

[thunder217]

Changed my first rear tire today all by my self. The Wing is a great bike to work on and it very user friendly. Toss it on its side and just like the Youtube said move the center stand just a little to bring the bike further from the ground and remove the five bolts and make the change. I was one of those guys that bought a one off rear wheel from the trike conversion. Brand new tires all around. She rides like a brand new bike. LOL

[bob109]

Changed my first rear tire today all by my self. The Wing is a great bike to work on and it very user friendly. Toss it on its side and just like the Youtube said move the center stand just a little to bring the bike further from the ground and remove the five bolts and make the change. I was one of those guys that bought a one off rear wheel from the trike conversion. Brand new tires all around. She rides like a brand new bike. LOL

What kind of mileage did you get from your OEM tires?

[Texas TC]

Bob,
I am wondering the same thing. I changed my rear tire at 11000 before my trip to Az but felt it had another 2000-3000 miles left in it. My front tire has 16500 miles on it and still looks and performs great. I hope to get 20000 out of it.

4451
Rear tire replaced at 11000 miles.

[bob109]

Bob,
I am wondering the same thing. I changed my rear tire at 1100 before my trip to Az but felt it had another 2000-3000 miles left in it. My front tire has 16500 miles on it and still looks and performs great. I hope to get 20000 out of it.


Rear tire replaced at 11000 miles.

Tom:

I pulled the rear stocker at 1190 mile and on went the General G-Max CT. My rear OEM Stone closely resembles yours! I have the original Stone on the front and with almost 14k miles I appears it may go to 19/20k. I keep the front AP at 40psi and I'm sure that has resulted in its longevity. Have 13.75k miles on the Max running 41psi and expect to get 22/24k miles service life. I'm still amazed how a 840+ lb. bike carves corners so well:041:

[bobbyf6b]

That's cool Thunder. Was it hard to hold the wheel still when you unbolted and bolted it? What did you use?

BTW, I'm still on my original rubber @ 16,500 miles.

[Phantom]

That's cool Thunder. Was it hard to hold the wheel still when you unbolted and bolted it? What did you use?

BTW, I'm still on my original rubber @ 16,500 miles.

Bobby, just put in gear.

The pressure to remove the bolts will not harm the transmission, it's a lot less then when you are cranking the throttle.


16,500 miles is fantastic !!!!

[Bama Bagger]

What does the forum consider to be a good "balanced" tire that provides good high speed handling, rain grip, and longevity!!!:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

[thunder217]

I pulled them off at 13000 because of planning trip to Daytona and would rather be safe than sorry. The front still had plenty of tread and rear was still good but did have a flat spot so it was going.

[edgeman55]

What does the forum consider to be a good "balanced" tire that provides good high speed handling, rain grip, and longevity!!!:popcorn::popcorn::popcorn:

I don't see how anything could be much better then the OEM Stones that came with the bike.Handle great wet or dry and give pretty decent mileage for motorcycle tires.

[Texas TC]

Well, my plans to get 20000 miles on my front tire went out the window today. I ran over some unknown item earlier this week and a tiny puncture flattened my front tire over night. My original front tires life came to an end at 17,100 miles. It still had plenty of tread, minimal cupping, and still performed like new. Hated to see my old friend go but its' life was, unfortunately, over.

[Steve 0080]

I have installed Ride On in my tires....if I pick up a screw...just pull it out and continue on!!!!!!



http://www.ride-on.com/

[Texas TC]

Never heard of it Steve. Looks like it would have taken care of my tiny puncture. Will look at installing with my next tire change.

[bobbyf6b]

I finally replaced my original tires @ 18,000 miles. The rear was getting a bit squirmy on the lines in the road so it was time. On my tire guys recommendation, and from another forum members experience, I decided to go with the Dunlop Elite 3. I wanted to get a CT but I don't have the equipment for changing tires and it was just a hell of a lot less hassle to get MT's. So after a couple days of riding, I have to say these tires are AWESOME. The bike is much more sporty handling and the grip is amazing. I had it up to some high speeds yesterday on a mountain ride and they performed outstanding. These tires are radials, specifically designed for the Goldwing. Here's a little write up in Cycle World:

5033 5034 5035 5036

I got my set, out the door, for just under $500.

[yabiah]

Rear tire with 14,567 miles.
I really thought it'd last a little longer.
Replaced it with an Elite 3. Will also be going to the Elite 3 on the front when necessary.
6585

[Fla_rider]

I use "Ride On" in my NC700. The bike actually felt more stable with it in. Never had a flat! Speaking of tires why hasn't anyone talked about Darksiding?

[bob109]

I use "Ride On" in my NC700. The bike actually felt more stable with it in. Never had a flat! Speaking of tires why hasn't anyone talked about Darksiding?

Come now! You know folks who "Dark Side" are absolutely crazy and will face a untimely and horrible death. This is especially true if they "Double Dark Side":stirthepot: Why would a person install a 195/55-R16 General G-Max Directional Radial Car Tire on the rear and then install a 130/70-18 Bridgestone BT45 Battlax Rear Cycle Tire on the front:yikes: Could a 840+ lb. behemoth like the F6B wear tires like that and not kill the rider:shock: It surrrrrrrre can:clap2:

[Scotrod]

Speaking of tires why hasn't anyone talked about Darksiding?

Just about every MC forum has it DS riders,,, Stick around,, won't take long,,,,


Come now! You know folks who "Dark Side" are absolutely crazy and will face a untimely and horrible death. This is especially true if they "Double Dark Side":stirthepot: Why would a person install a 195/55-R16 General G-Max Directional Radial Car Tire on the rear and then install a 130/70-18 Bridgestone BT45 Battlax Rear Cycle Tire on the front:yikes: Could a 840+ lb. behemoth like the F6B wear tires like that and not kill the rider:shock: It surrrrrrrre can:clap2:

Why look! There's one a them rascals right now! :icon_biggrin:

[Hook]

I went to the dark side at 14000. I went a Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT and 33psi AND I LOVE THIS TIRE. I now have 15600. miles on my front with a lot of miles left on It. But I'm going to Sturgis and I don't want to worry about my front tire.

[bob109]

I went to the dark side at 14000. I went a Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT and 33psi AND I LOVE THIS TIRE. I now have 15600. miles on my front with a lot of miles left on It. But I'm going to Sturgis and I don't want to worry about my front tire.

Hook:

You're half way to "Double Dark Sider". You can purchase a BT45 Ax from American Motorcycle Tire for $105 and change with no shipping fee! Absolutely no regrets on my part in using this tire. I have just shy of 2K miles on it and prefer it over the OEM Stone. The tire is 1/4" narrower than the 709 and it truly improves "corner handling" on the 6. With initial installation there was a "high frequency vibration" in the bars. Not major but noticeable. That has abated with accumulated miles. I'm in possession of my second Ax and have it stored in my motorhome for possible use in Florida this winter:icon_wink:
I chose to mount the tire with the "direction arrow" same as the OEM Stone. Some folks are mounting "reverse rotation". From what I can glean from various forums/sources that practice is by "trike riders". Most who have the Ax are stating it will work in either rotation direction:icon_biggrin:

[bubbaj1]

I ran through 2 sets of the factory 704 and 709 tires in 12k. So I just put on the dunlop american elite tires similar to what harley runs. I will post up another time how they hold up. I am fixing to leave on a 10 day motorcycle vacation.

[Trail-runner]

How are you guys getting this kind of mileage out of the stock tires? This is after 9700 miles.

[hiflyer]

How are you guys getting this kind of mileage out of the stock tires? This is after 9700 miles.

Whoa !:yikes:

[srt8-in-largo]

Does the Elite 3 come in OEM size (180/60)?

[Steve 0080]

How are you guys getting this kind of mileage out of the stock tires? This is after 9700 miles.



By not putting the front wheel in a chock and smoking off the rear tire!!!

[fxdl2051]

So nobody here likes Metzlers or Dunlops? Just wondering since Harleys run them a lot, though drive shafts and more hp may have their own needs.

[Trail-runner]

I have ran the Elite 3 tires on my street glide. It was my tire of choice for that bike. I would get around 14,000 mile out of a set. They handled better than any other tire I've had on that bike. I have stuck with the Bridgestones for the F6b. Everyone seems to like them. They handle good enough, but I just wish they would last longer.

[bubbaj1]

I have ran e3 and bridgestones and metzlers a bunch.. my favorites so far are the american elite by dunlop they are sticky and wearing well.

[ruouthere]

I don't see how anything could be much better then the OEM Stones that came with the bike.Handle great wet or dry and give pretty decent mileage for motorcycle tires.

I agree, ran them on both of my GL1800 Gold Wings with a combined 120,000 miles. Great tire under all road and weather conditions with and w/o pulling my trailer two up. I averaged approx. 10K out of each set but I tended to replace a little early to be safe.

[CoCoKola]

darn, I have 6k now and didn't realize I was past 50% of the life of the tire.. at least I know what to get now.. ;)

[naga viper]

8035 :shock:
8000.miles I had high hopes for 10k or more.I guess my need for acceleration shows. :nono:
but my mpg's have been awesome! :icon_mrgreen:
I will be changing out most likely this weekend! Not worth a bad day over trying to get more miles out of it.

[srt8-in-largo]

How are you guys getting this kind of mileage out of the stock tires? This is after 9700 miles.


:shock:
8000.miles I had high hopes for 10k or more.I guess my need for acceleration shows. :nono:
but my mpg's have been awesome! :icon_mrgreen:
I will be changing out most likely this weekend! Not worth a bad day over trying to get more miles out of it.

You guys are wearing your tires WAY too thin, seriously.

Those tires are hydroplane city. Hydroplaning on a bike usually means death or serious injury.

[CoCoKola]

You guys are wearing your tires WAY too thin, seriously.

Those tires are hydroplane city. Hydroplaning on a bike usually means death or serious injury.

so how many miles would you go, or at what point of wear?

[srt8-in-largo]

1/16" absolute minimum. I start looking for new tires at 2/16".

[Madmax]

Took my new to the darksided 2013 F6b for a run over the holiday weekend to the NJ shore ... The intended purpose of my F6B is a highway machine , I have other bikes for back road knee dragging , tire sliding bikes .
I could never see putting a car tire on any of the light weight bike , as for the Goldwing series bikes can't imagine going back to a cycle tire on that machine .
I was running 32 psi but have had the tire aired up to 42 adds a bit more crown to the tire for more back road riding ... you can still do the back roads with the darkside tire .
Just my 2cents .

[grendl]

Question on this subject..
My front tire at 9200 miles is starting to cup. Bike still handles well and it's just the visual I noticed. I have been running it at 40, religious on checking tire pressure. Running the shock at halfway- a little harsh- but I ride the mountain twisties in between a couple road trips and want the additional handling .
It has always had a little headshake if I let go the bars at 30-40 mph.
Any ideas ?

[cueman]

Try 41 and see if it gets better. :icon_wink: cueman

[srt8-in-largo]

Question on this subject..
My front tire at 9200 miles is starting to cup. Bike still handles well and it's just the visual I noticed. I have been running it at 40, religious on checking tire pressure. Running the shock at halfway- a little harsh- but I ride the mountain twisties in between a couple road trips and want the additional handling .
It has always had a little headshake if I let go the bars at 30-40 mph.
Any ideas ?

Check the tire for balance.

[bobbyf6b]

Does the Elite 3 come in OEM size (180/60)?

Yes, they have a set made exclusively for the GL 1800. Radials.

[bobbyf6b]

I have ran e3 and bridgestones and metzlers a bunch.. my favorites so far are the american elite by dunlop they are sticky and wearing well.

Are those Radials? The Elite 3's I have are radials made just for the GL1800.

[BARRYS770]

Question on this subject..
My front tire at 9200 miles is starting to cup. Bike still handles well and it's just the visual I noticed. I have been running it at 40, religious on checking tire pressure. Running the shock at halfway- a little harsh- but I ride the mountain twisties in between a couple road trips and want the additional handling .
It has always had a little headshake if I let go the bars at 30-40 mph.
Any ideas ?

Stop letting go of the handlebars!

[Steve 0080]

UMMMMM.... Why are some getting 8K out of a tire and some getting 20K out of a tire ...when both swear that they keep the tires at 40 psi..... I have 16.5 on the front, and can go another 3K or so, and got 15 out of the back...could have gone father but had a Alpine and wanted it on the bike!!!



Here is my thought..... what are the ages of the tires on our bikes????? Is Honda putting some NEW and some OLD tires on our bike to get RID of them?????

My front shows 49/12= 49 week of 2012

[hiflyer]

Going dark side with the spare wheel. Talked to several at the rally and fellow board member KJ this morning about it. This is getting weird .....I'm kinda excited to try it.

[Steve 0080]

Go Michelin Alpine, Run Flat!!! 32psi on the flats and 36psi in the twistys...on this last trip I did go up to 36 psi and the bike did great ...

[hiflyer]

Go Michelin Alpine, Run Flat!!!

Ordered today!!

[shooter]

I just put my G-Max on yesterday. Took a 1 hour ride yesterday evening. Its a little different. I haven't played with the pressure yet. Takes a little more body English in the corners. Not a lot , just a little. Rides better. Smoother. More stable at slow speeds , ie. coming up to a stop. I like it. Gonna try it two up this weekend. Got about 350 miles planned. I like the looks of that fat tire out back. Still corners great. Not much negative to say , lots of positives. If it works out I will probably try the Michelin later on. I own a tire store so its a little easier for me to try things. No body tells me I can't put a CT on a MC wheel. I'll let you know how the ride goes 2 up.

[shooter]

By the way thanks to Bob109 for some information and encouragement. Been riding MC's for 45 years and I was a little hesitant on the CT. But Being in the business it made sense to me, I've always thought that MC tire manufacturers stick it to us. I sell a lot of great CT's in my shop. In some aspects MC tires leave a lot to be desired. I sometimes think they don't try too hard and when they do it costs me $300. I got the G-Max for under $80. Not a very expensive experiment. I'm tickled shytless so far.

[Mr. PDQ]

For those of us not in the tire biz, please explain G-max. Thanks

[shooter]

General G-Max 195/55-16 car tire. Wasn't trying to be a know it all. If you read the forums then I figured you would know it. "The Biz" don't have anything to do with it.

[bob109]

For those of us not in the tire biz, please explain G-max. Thanks

The attached thread will give you some good info on the General G-Max. I just turned 20K miles on mine and anticipate 23/24K miles of wear before I replace it with the identical tire. So good was the Max's performance, I bought 4 spares. Sold one to my brother-in-law who has yet to mount it. I, personally, will never have a MT on the rear of my 6. IMHO a good "directional radial car tire" is the only to fly:icon_biggrin:


http://hondaf6b.com/showthread.php?232-F6B-To-The-Dark-Side

[Scotrod]

You'll shoot your eye out with one of those things!!! :shock:

:crackup:

:cheers:

[F6Pilot]

Go Michelin Alpine, Run Flat!!! 32psi on the flats and 36psi in the twistys...on this last trip I did go up to 36 psi and the bike did great ...

I mounted a Michelin this past weekend running at 32. It does feel different but I'm adjusting accordingly. I may bump up to 36 as suggested and give that a try. The only flats I run are the ones that get me to the twistys.

[VP8]

I have installed Ride On in my tires....if I pick up a screw...just pull it out and continue on!!!!!!



http://www.ride-on.com/

Steve, thank you for introducing me to Ride On. I have never heard of this product before. I shared your link with my buddies, and they too are very fascinated by it and are interested in purchasing it. My question to you is, have you experienced a puncture in your tires with the sealant inside? If so, did it work as described?

[naga viper]

Has anyone tried the metzler 888? How was mileage?
I'm sure us at the 8k plateau got a different batch than the rest.will see on this next pair.
Not to :spank: anyone or to:icon_deadhorse:but
I read a post some time ago. And a darksider did tons of damage to drivetrain from over 100000 miles.
there was a lot of emphasis on the drag that a car tire has ie improved acceleration. Improved braking. But if I remember correctly had some real statistics on why driveshaft, rear diff, and gears in transmission were all chewed to pieces.
Don't shoot the messenger just trying to help out I'm sure it could be found on Google.

[Scotrod]

Have not heard of the Darkside situation you described. :shrug:

Not sure the Goldwing version of the 888 has been out long enough to get much feedback,,,

The Wing does pretty good on tires compared to my old V-Twins,,, Only got about 8K on rears with those bikes but 13+ on the Wing. Same roads/rider.

Bikes all weighed about the same. The flat six lays down the power in smaller/shorter intervals than the twins,,, Kinda like 6 framing hammers vs, 2 sledges,,,

[shooter]

Has anyone tried the metzler 888? How was mileage?
I'm sure us at the 8k plateau got a different batch than the rest.will see on this next pair.
Not to :spank: anyone or to:icon_deadhorse:but
I read a post some time ago. And a darksider did tons of damage to drivetrain from over 100000 miles.
there was a lot of emphasis on the drag that a car tire has ie improved acceleration. Improved braking. But if I remember correctly had some real statistics on why driveshaft, rear diff, and gears in transmission were all chewed to pieces.
Don't shoot the messenger just trying to help out I'm sure it could be found on Google.

If you drag the tire on the brake side the brake pads are holding the rotor so no stress on the drivetrain. As far as the takeoff unless you are trying to smoke the tire stress would be no different. Some people can find fault with anything. Mostly those kind of people don't know shyt from tar. You have to have a little common sense , research the subject or actually talk to someone knowledgeable. MC tires don't slip on normal braking or on normal shifting. But you know anything can be broken if you try hard enough. Besides , whats the bitch. 100,000 miles? That's three Harley's lifetimes.

[shooter]

Have not heard of the Darkside situation you described. :shrug:

Not sure the Goldwing version of the 888 has been out long enough to get much feedback,,,

The Wing does pretty good on tires compared to my old V-Twins,,, Only got about 8K on rears with those bikes but 13+ on the Wing. Same roads/rider.

Bikes all weighed about the same. The flat six lays down the power in smaller/shorter intervals than the twins,,, Kinda like 6 framing hammers vs, 2 sledges,,,

That's creative even for you Scot. I do enjoy your post's though.

[srt8-in-largo]

Check this out: http://www.goldwingowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63017

Tire blew out on the interstate at 65 mph. Looks like the sidewall detached. Bike totaled. Rider and passenger injured. Cause unknown. Tire brand... Metzler.



Yes, they have a set made exclusively for the GL 1800. Radials.

Gracias.



Has anyone tried the metzler 888? How was mileage?
I'm sure us at the 8k plateau got a different batch than the rest.will see on this next pair.
Not to :spank: anyone or to:icon_deadhorse:but
I read a post some time ago. And a darksider did tons of damage to drivetrain from over 100000 miles.
there was a lot of emphasis on the drag that a car tire has ie improved acceleration. Improved braking. But if I remember correctly had some real statistics on why driveshaft, rear diff, and gears in transmission were all chewed to pieces.
Don't shoot the messenger just trying to help out I'm sure it could be found on Google.

Can you find that post?

[srt8-in-largo]

Notice the tread; it looks like there should have been a LOT more left in it.

Idk, guys. This kind of stuff is spooky.


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-l-72abpLLxY/VBETyLHfCpI/AAAAAAAACJQ/gqeNe3PjMUA/s800/Totaled%2520Goldwing%25208-21-14%2520tire%2520blow%2520out.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-lpdzd_Hy6kk/VBETyGERHXI/AAAAAAAACI0/g5RZmhZSR44/s800/Totaled%2520Goldwing%25208-21-14%2520tread%2520picture.jpg

[bob109]

After doing a search of rear cycle tire failures there are two reported incidents! One describing a Bridgestone MT on a GL1800. Hope this attachment works:icon_wink:

Here's the post!
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVj7ZIRFU3kcAN0wPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBzajE3bzE 3BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMTAEY29sbwNiZjEEdnRpZAM-/RV=2/RE=1410437722/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fgl1800riders.com%2fforums%2fshowth read.php%3f327273-Bridgestone-Rear-Tire-Failure/RK=0/RS=q2MfKxi_uh42sZDQzKhy43Z4Bik-
http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVvS7JBFUbW4AHbQPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTBzbWhqN3A 2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMjYEY29sbwNiZjEEdnRpZAM-/RV=2/RE=1410438459/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.pashnit.com%2fforum%2fshowthre ad.php%3f28054-Major-tire-failure/RK=0/RS=sm4mhaeG90e6eXOp7Ue2zJvZKRo-

[Scotrod]

There was also a post a few years back about a CT RF rear failure,,, Crash/burn.

Story goes he ran the RF long enough with low/no air pressure that the sidewalls shredded out. Bike had NO TPMS.

Here's a old thread from ~some guy~ (:shrug:) on the VTX Café about the same incident,,,: http://www.vtxcafe.com/showthread.php/33748-Darkside-tire-failure-video

(Unclear, but the vid does not appear to be current/active. As I remember it, it was taken at the dealership who removed the shredded CT. just showed the tire, said it came off a Gwing,,, Nothing was said in the vid about 'cause'. I went to the darkside forum to find out what happened as I was sportin a Mich HE at the time)

*******

Many use RF's as a rapid loss of air pressure on a NRF CT mounted on a MC rim can result in the bead disengaging from the rim. (YEE HAW!!! HANG ON ETHEL!!!)

The MT / MC rim are specifically designed to 'marry/seat' with a small ridge in the MC rim. MT bead sits just outside that ridge, helping the bead to stay seated longer in the even of low/no air pressure.

CT beads are wider, and will not fit down in the rim channel outside that ridge.

I can see where the addition of TPMS to any CT equipped bike would be beneficial, RF or no RF. The OEM TPMS system on Wings doesn't always play well with the pressures DS'ers run, so 'work-arounds' may be required.

I (now) run MT's on MC rims w/no TPMS. Everyone else can make their own decision.

[Scotrod]

That's creative even for you Scot. I do enjoy your post's though.

Actually, the 'lay down of the power' was 'stolen' and was described a bit differently in an article I read a few years ago. It was referring to how the new (at that time) MC cross-plane racing engines had an advantage at the track in powering through the corners without breaking the tires loose as each power pulse to the rear tire was 'smaller/more evenly distributed over (1) complete engine power cycle than comparably powered 2 cylinder bikes.

In a manner of speaking, the same overall HP/TQ was transferred to the road with less chance of the tires breaking loose as the smaller/more frequent power pulses put less strain on the tires,,

"Like 6 framing hammers vs 2 sledges,,,"

:icon_wink:

[Scotrod]

Check this out: http://www.goldwingowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63017

Tire blew out on the interstate at 65 mph. Looks like the sidewall detached. Bike totaled. Rider and passenger injured. Cause unknown. Tire brand... Metzler.

Not enough info here or in the link know what happened.

My speculations:

Riding 2 up,,, Overloaded? Underinflated? Underinflated/gradual loss of pressure after a small puncture? :shrug:

A few years ago, The Metz 880's I had on my VTX were excellent tires. I was having repeated belt failures in rear Avon Cobra's, (Most likely due to exceeding Honda's recommended weight capacity)

Bought a Yami after the VTX and haven't ran Metz since.

Seems like recently, 'a few' folks have indicated they have had trouble with Metz, which,,,, you really didn't hear a lot about before,,, :shrug:

IMHO, the OEM 'stones on our 6's are both proven and tough to beat. I'm more than willing wait for feedback on the 888's before I drop coin.

[Cheesyryder]

I only have 4 weeks and 3,500 miles to judge, yet am happy with stock rubber. So why change?

[shooter]

Guys the number one cause of tire failure is under inflation. I ride with guys that don't check their tire pressure but once every six months. I check mine before every ride. If its appreciably low I know I have a leak and address the problem. These same guys gripe cause they only get 3000 mles on the tire before it gets choppy. Good maintenance is the life of anything. Only takes a few minutes.

[shooter]

I only have 4 weeks and 3,500 miles to judge, yet am happy with stock rubber. So why change?

You don't need to change. Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with. This thread is just to present different perspectives and ideas. I only ride the B two up so my situation is different than yours probably. Thus the change to the better load carrying ability of the CT. My M109R I run a MT. I don't just do things to be doing them. I always have a reason. That OE MT had a two inch flat spot in the middle at only 1800 miles. That's running 42 psi. Tread was half gone. I'm not a little guy and my gal isn't petite. I wanted to be safe and now I feel that I am.

[2kewlgypsy]

Metezler - I had two blow outs on my Road Glide over the course of a couple of years - the second one I know pressure was spot on, both also had plenty of tread.
I will never ride on Metezlers again -- can't afford all the new underware.

[Scotrod]

I'm not small,,, neither is the Mrs. Yet another reason we each ride our own instead of doubling up and exceeding Honda's rated weight carrying capacity. (420# or so, I believe :shrug:)

The 580 lb carrying capacity rating of the Vic X-roads was a strong pull for me at one time, but not really a factor today.

I believe the 'Lop Elite 3 has the highest weight carrying capacity of any Wing-size rear tire,,,

If you are having tire troubles caused by overloading that specific tires weight rating, sure, a higher weight-rated tire will help with your tire troubles, but it still doesn't change the capacity of the bike. It addresses the symptom, but really not the root cause, so to speak,,,,

Can it be done? Sure, happens all the time. Could it be better? Not without keeping the load at/below the MFR's limit.

That also includes everything that wasn't on the bike when ya got it.

Maybe not so much on our 6's, but folks bolt on / add all kinds of stuff to lots of bikes. Shields/fairings/bags/engine guards/stereo systems etc etc etc,,,, Lotsa times, there are very few folks out there riding 2 - up on 'typical' bikes that aren't already over the limit,,,

Strap on some luggage, add a trailer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Time to pull off the badges and write FREIGHTLINER on the side!!! :yikes:

[naga viper]

Check this out: http://www.goldwingowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63017

Tire blew out on the interstate at 65 mph. Looks like the sidewall detached. Bike totaled. Rider and passenger injured. Cause unknown. Tire brand... Metzler.




Gracias.




Can you find that post?

I will look for it. it was on a vtx site vtxoa or the cafe??

[Scotrod]

ole chit!!! Look at this Stone!!

http://www.goldwingowners.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=95809&d=1410346517

[Mr. PDQ]

Thanks I appreciate your help.

[srt8-in-largo]

If I may play the devil's advocate to darksiding... http://www.ridermagazine.com/browse-by-type/tires/tales-from-the-dark-side-putting-car-tires-on-motorcycles.htm/

[Scotrod]

While there are several published articles with quite a bit of information why you shouldn't use a CT on a MC, there are no/none/zip/nada documents from any Tire or mass-produced Motorcycle Manufacturer that indicate CT's are even 'an acceptable substitute' for a MC tire.

But even after all that, some folks like 'em anyway! :icon_mrgreen:

Buncha dang Hooligans, I say!! :yikes:

:crackup:

[shooter]

While there are several published articles with quite a bit of information why you shouldn't use a CT on a MC, there are no/none/zip/nada documents from any Tire or mass-produced Motorcycle Manufacturer that indicate CT's are even 'an acceptable substitute' for a MC tire.

But even after all that, some folks like 'em anyway! :icon_mrgreen:

Buncha dang Hooligans, I say!! :yikes:

:crackup:

Or maybe Trailblazers , Innovators , Forward Thinkers or hell , Risk Takers. If it wasn't for people like this we would still be riding horses and fighting Indians. Don't be afraid of something new. It's a principle this country was founded on.

[srt8-in-largo]

I like rockin' the boat as much as anyone :icon_biggrin:

Honestly, when I first started reading that I thought the guy was gonna come around and say CT's were great on a bike. The take away I got was just what you said, there are no industry experts who recommend darksiding. But I do understand that the experienced riders who run on the darkside are fully aware of the characteristics that are being changed, gained, or lost.

I'm considering running a CT and am doing some reading in order to make an informed decision... and thought I'd share that article to give a counter perspective to the overwhelming affirmative recommendations given in the forum for darksiding.

The last point being made in the article was one I hadn't considered yet. How would insurance handle a claim if they discover you have a car tire on the bike?

[srt8-in-largo]

Or maybe Trailblazers , Innovators , Forward Thinkers or hell , Risk Takers. If it wasn't for people like this we would still be riding horses and fighting Indians. Don't be afraid of something new. It's a principle this country was founded on.

It's not new. People have been running CT's on bikes since the 1950's.

[Deer Slayer]

Industry Experts never bite the hand that feeds them! :cheers:

[srt8-in-largo]

This is what concerns me, actually.... cheerleading for CT's as if there should be no considerations at all. Doing so is a dis-service to forum members trying to become educated about the tradeoffs. And there are trade-offs.

The argument that industry experts don't recommend darksiding because it'll hurt business is false IMO. There are sound and proven reasons why the "experts" recommend tires that were specifically engineered for bikes to be used on bikes.

I'm not afraid of new ideas in the least but if someone makes an *informed* decision to stay with MC tires that's fine with me and they are certainly not stuck in the past fighting indians. I respect *informed* decisions; so don't be a sheeple and do something just because all the cool kids are doing it :icon_biggrin:

[shooter]

You obviously didn't read all the above posts. You only saw what you wanted to see so you could become self righteous. Read the above page before putting someone's ideas down.

[bobbyf6b]

If I may play the devil's advocate to darksiding... http://www.ridermagazine.com/browse-by-type/tires/tales-from-the-dark-side-putting-car-tires-on-motorcycles.htm/

No offense but we've seen that article maybe a dozen times on this forum.

Car tires are just as safe as any other mods we do to our bikes. The only reason I haven't tried it yet is convenience. I don't have the tools to mount it myself and I haven't found a local source for mounting yet.

As for insurance, what if you lower the bike? Add spacers to the handlebars? Change the wind screen? All of these change the operating and handling of the bike.

[hiflyer]

Remember some of the custom bike makers? Big Dog comes to mind. Some of the so called fat "motorcycle" tires they put on these bikes looked like they belonged on a Mack truck. I rode a former neighbors bike and couldn't turn the thing. On top of that, the primary had to be extended out so far to get the chain to the wheel that there was no ground clearance to speak of on the left side. Combined this seems far more dangerous than putting a car tire on a M/C. And these were massed produced for the public. Check this out.

http://www.empirecyclesny.com/bigdog.htm

[bobbyf6b]

Boss Hoss has had CT's for years. That's the first bike I rode with one back in the mid 90s.

8555

[Scotrod]

Or maybe Trailblazers , Innovators , Forward Thinkers or hell , Risk Takers. If it wasn't for people like this we would still be riding horses and fighting Indians. Don't be afraid of something new. It's a principle this country was founded on.

Personally, the DS is nothing new to me, or to MC's either. I've been there, done that, years ago,,, not going back.

This is not some 'new frontier' either. No one needs to feel like they are Columbus, a Viking, a Cowboy in the Wild West, a 'Pioneer in the field' or anything remotely close to 'an explorer' by slapping a CT on their 6. CT's on MC's have been around since the start, and the evolved tire / motorcycle technology of today is exactly why we don't equip ALL MC's with 'car tires' anymore.

The thought of 'trying something different' for yourself will always be there. The emotion of 'getting one over on the system' has it's pull, but the 'rationalization' used for CT's on MC's is, like it or not, 100% limited to 'armchair experts'. There is NO support for CT use by anyone involved in Tire or mass produced MC manufacturing. (If it wasn't for having 2 wheels, the Boss Hoss wouldn't be considered a motorcycle, and it's not what most would consider as a 'mass produced' bike either)

But, hey, if it makes ya feel good, what can I say? You can equip your bike as you please.

I actually saw an old Valk with a CT on the way home yesterday,,, Kinda got a chuckle out of it! He's happy, I'm tickled, and life goes on! :yes:

[Scotrod]

Remember some of the custom bike makers? Big Dog comes to mind. Some of the so called fat "motorcycle" tires they put on these bikes looked like they belonged on a Mack truck. I rode a former neighbors bike and couldn't turn the thing. url]

Yep, and those big fat rear MC tires affect the geometry of a bike in the corners much the same way as a CT does.

Once you wrap your mind around 'why' the bike handles different with a CT, the changes in geometry, the under-steer it creates, eh, well they don't look so 'appealing' after all. Of course, if you drive in a straight line most of the time, you'll might not mind the trade-off.

Draggin pegs more, wearing out front tires quicker than before,,,, Some say this is '100% proof' they are going faster,,,

Uh, if you REALLY think that's the 'cause/effect', more power to ya!!!.

I've said it 100 times, I never knew how much I missed a MT till I went back to one.

I really don't care about the cost/mileage. (Over $1200 for 4 tires on my RAM that should last 60k+,,, About the same as 2 tires totaling $320 lasting for ~15k~)

I understand the difference in sidewall/tire construction, and why the cushy ride isn't there, but that same difference provides a 'surgical precision' in cornering that can't be beat.

But hey,,, everyone can equip their bike as they want. :yes:

[bob109]

Personally, the DS is nothing new to me, or to MC's either. I've been there, done that, years ago,,, not going back.

This is not some 'new frontier' either. No one needs to feel like they are Columbus, a Viking, a Cowboy in the Wild West, a 'Pioneer in the field' or anything remotely close to 'an explorer' by slapping a CT on their 6. CT's on MC's have been around since the start, and the evolved tire / motorcycle technology of today is exactly why we don't equip ALL MC's with 'car tires' anymore.

The thought of 'trying something different' for yourself will always be there. The emotion of 'getting one over on the system' has it's pull, but the 'rationalization' used for CT's on MC's is, like it or not, 100% limited to 'armchair experts'. There is NO support for CT use by anyone involved in Tire or mass produced MC manufacturing. (If it wasn't for having 2 wheels, the Boss Hoss wouldn't be considered a motorcycle, and it's not what most would consider as a 'mass produced' bike either)

But, hey, if it makes ya feel good, what can I say? You can equip your bike as you please.

I actually saw an old Valk with a CT on the way home yesterday,,, Kinda got a chuckle out of it! He's happy, I'm tickled, and life goes on! :yes:

Could you be kind enough to embellish a bit more on "Armchair Experts".

[Scotrod]

Could you be kind enough to embellish a bit more on "Armchair Experts".

Folks who do not design M/C tires or Car tires for a living would be a good start. :icon_wink:

***************************

Anybody here work for a MC tire manufacturer as a Designer, an Engineer? :shrug:

Anybody here work for a Car tire manufacturer as a Designer, an Engineer? :shrug:

Anyone have more to bring to the discussion than "It fits/I like it/I haven't had any problems?" :shrug:

Someone who would actually know as a result of professional-level technical training each individual component of either a MT or CT, what each individual component does, how they work in unison, and what results when one or more of those components are changed /altered?

These are the same folks saying ya need to use MC tires on a MC.

The rest of us are all 'armchair experts'.

[shooter]

Its not new but it is forward thinking Scot. I don't see anyone twisting arms. But its an opinion that deserves consideration. And Bob you're right. I have an M109R and you have to really work that 260 rear MC tire to get around a corner. I can drag the pegs with it but it's like riding Moto GP. Takes a lot of body English to get results. Even with the CT on the B it out handles the 9 easily. I can't tell a whole lot of difference.

[Scotrod]

Its not new but it is forward thinking Scot. .

See my post above.

To have any of us 'armchair expert's' experiment with CT's is not true 'forward thinking' at all.

Maybe for that individual and/or on an extremely 'elementary/Bubba likes it' level it is, but the real world 'experimentation/forward thinking' done at the manufacturing level is light years ahead of what any 'armchair expert' does when he grabs a CT off a shelf and slaps it on his bike.

If folks can't or otherwise refuse to understand that, well,,, I can't help 'em. :icon_biggrin:

[bob109]

Its not new but it is forward thinking Scot. I don't see anyone twisting arms. But its an opinion that deserves consideration. And Bob you're right. I have an M109R and you have to really work that 260 rear MC tire to get around a corner. I can drag the pegs with it but it's like riding Moto GP. Takes a lot of body English to get results. Even with the CT on the B it out handles the 9 easily. I can't tell a whole lot of difference.

I, like you, had a 2006 Suzuki M109. It came shod from the factory with a 240 rear tire. After 6000 miles the tire was replaced with a 250 Venom R. That tire, like the OEM tire, was great for conversation at local "Bike Nights" and other cycle gatherings but was worthless in good cornering and rain riding. Had a experience in a rain storm where my a$$ puckered as I thought I was wave surfing. The 109 was all over the road from hydro-planing.

I'm, by no means a pioneer in Dark Siding, nor am I a Tire Engineer. My experience is based solely on a personal accumulation of approximately 80,000 "dark side miles" on three different "heavy cruisers" with three different tires. Each of those experiences were different which would be considered reasonable due to tire and bike design. Guess that makes me a "Armchair Expert".

One thing about cycle manufacturers! They will re-write the rule book to suit themselves and their "bottom line". A perfect example is Yamaha's "Raider" which sports a "bias front tire and radial rear". Here we have a manufacturer contradict the long held belief that radials and bias tires should never be mixed. For whatever reason they have thrown caution to the wind or a Yamaha Engineer has done some extensive testing to support this division. Sure hope he checked with the "legal folks" and had the blessings of top management:shock:

Unlike Scotrod, my personal "Dark Side Experience" has been a good one without any "drama", hence I'll continue to use what is best for me. I don't promote or endorse what I do as the "norm" or as a "maverick". I simply choose to do and enjoy the handling and performance the CT provides for the type of riding I do:icon_wink:

My personal safety and well-being are paramount! I'm a stickler for detail and specifics and document every event with my CT experience. I like to do "tire autopsy" be it CT or MT and get to the heart of the matter on how its constructed. I do the same with "oil filters". Knowing how it "Ticks" provides some clear evidence and eliminates conjecture:icon_doh:

Ride Safe

[shooter]

Bob we may be related. That was a well written post.

[hiflyer]

[QUOTE=Scotrod;46724]Personally, the DS is nothing new to me, or to MC's either. I've been there, done that, years ago,,, not going back.

QUOTE]

I've got two rear wheels, I'm going to mount up a C/T on one of them and draw my own conclusions.

[shooter]

See my post above.

To have any of us 'armchair expert's' experiment with CT's is not true 'forward thinking' at all.

Maybe for that individual and/or on an extremely 'elementary/Bubba likes it' level it is, but the real world 'experimentation/forward thinking' done at the manufacturing level is light years ahead of what any 'armchair expert' does when he grabs a CT off a shelf and slaps it on his bike.

If folks can't or otherwise refuse to understand that, well,,, I can't help 'em. :icon_biggrin:

I don't agree with that at all. As an ASE Certified Master Technician I work on defective pieces of shyt that the "manufacturers" put out every day. If you think that our safety is paramount when it comes to manufacturing practices then you truly were born last night. Their bottom dollar is what drives them and is absolutely the most important thing. And when you get what they give you its not necessarily what's best for you or even what you should have. Its what they can give you for a set dollar amount.

[shooter]

[QUOTE=Scotrod;46724]Personally, the DS is nothing new to me, or to MC's either. I've been there, done that, years ago,,, not going back.

QUOTE]

I've got two rear wheels, I'm going to mount up a C/T on one of them and draw my own conclusions.
And that's what its all about. Freedom to draw your own conclusions and make an informed decision.

[Steve 0080]

I don't agree with that at all. As an ASE Certified Master Technician I work on defective pieces of shyt that the "manufacturers" put out every day. If you think that our safety is paramount when it comes to manufacturing practices then you truly were born last night. Their bottom dollar is what drives them and is absolutely the most important thing. And when you get what they give you its not necessarily what's best for you or even what you should have. Its what they can give you for a set dollar amount.

I was at my new powder coater's home last night picking up some parts. He had a Valk on a lift and we got started talking Valks and the like.... he had made a statement at he shop where we first met that the D.S. would never be on one of his bikes because insurance companies would not pay the bill if wrecked. I asked him them what HIS agent said. He had no answer . I suggested again that before he draw conclusions he needed to try it to have an opinion. I left with him saying he should at least try it!

Hey! it ain't for everyone...I do believe you should try something in order to have an opinion .... having said that....safety is not your governments first concern nor is it the manufactures either.... it is ALWAYS the dollar..... and IMHO most engineers I know are educated idiiots...just sayin....

[shooter]

I was at my new powder coater's home last night picking up some parts. He had a Valk on a lift and we got started talking Valks and the like.... he had made a statement at he shop where we first met that the D.S. would never be on one of his bikes because insurance companies would not pay the bill if wrecked. I asked him them what HIS agent said. He had no answer . I suggested again that before he draw conclusions he needed to try it to have an opinion. I left with him saying he should at least try it!

Hey! it ain't for everyone...I do believe you should try something in order to have an opinion .... having said that....safety is not your governments first concern nor is it the manufactures either.... it is ALWAYS the dollar..... and IMHO most engineers I know are educated idiiots...just sayin....

Amen Brother to all of that.

[srt8-in-largo]

I don't agree with that at all. As an ASE Certified Master Technician I work on defective pieces of shyt that the "manufacturers" put out every day. If you think that our safety is paramount when it comes to manufacturing practices then you truly were born last night. Their bottom dollar is what drives them and is absolutely the most important thing. And when you get what they give you its not necessarily what's best for you or even what you should have. Its what they can give you for a set dollar amount.

Scot's point was that the engineers who design the components are working with a LOT more information than Joe Customer who simply buys the tire, rides on it, and forms an opinion. That is indisputably true.

Regarding the bottom dollar being more important than safety... what do you think happens to the bottom dollar when safety is not there? People stop buying those products and profits suffer or the company goes under. History is littered with such cases. You're on the service side of a products lifecycle; my hat's off for being Master Certified. But if you spend time on the design side you would quickly realize that safety is in fact a very high priority. Ask me how I know :icon_biggrin:



I was at my new powder coater's home last night picking up some parts. He had a Valk on a lift and we got started talking Valks and the like.... he had made a statement at he shop where we first met that the D.S. would never be on one of his bikes because insurance companies would not pay the bill if wrecked. I asked him them what HIS agent said. He had no answer . I suggested again that before he draw conclusions he needed to try it to have an opinion. I left with him saying he should at least try it!

Hey! it ain't for everyone...I do believe you should try something in order to have an opinion .... having said that....safety is not your governments first concern nor is it the manufactures either.... it is ALWAYS the dollar..... and IMHO most engineers I know are educated idiiots...just sayin....

If we believe vehicle manufacturers are driven solely by the dollar, why would we not believe insurers do the same. Discovering a car tire on a bike would be a pristine reason to refuse a claim.

Your powder coater friend could very well have turned the table and asked if you ever had a claim paid after crashing on the darkside. I assume the answer is no. I know very little about insurance but I do understand there's some discretion given to the adjuster. *Some*, not a lot. I tend to believe the insurance argument is not clear cut one way or the other... but the risk of a refusal exists and should be considered.

[bobbyf6b]

Someone who would actually know as a result of professional-level technical training each individual component of either a MT or CT, what each individual component does, how they work in unison, and what results when one or more of those components are changed /altered?

These are the same folks saying ya need to use MC tires on a MC.

Same folks that say I need catalytic converters because of global warming. :icon_lol:

Just messing with you Scotrod.

[bob109]

If we believe vehicle manufacturers are driven solely by the dollar, why would we not believe insurers do the same. Discovering a car tire on a bike would be a pristine reason to refuse a claim.



The same could be said or implied for riding a bike without a helmet and have a head injury and have your claim denied for that fact!

The same could be said or implied for folks who are "vertically impaired" and operate a cycle on their tippy toes!

The same could be said or implied for anyone lowering their cycle so they can flat foot (only applies to vertical impaired folks)!

The same could be said or implied for driving a 840 lb. cruiser like a sport bike!

The same could be said or implied for towing a trailer with a motorcycle!

The same could be said or implied for driving on a rear tire with the cords showing!

The above, like your statement on using a CT as a excuse to deny a claim, are all assumptions and conjecture!:shock:

Unless one has definitive proof that a insurance denial has occurred (News Paper Article etc.) we add nothing to a debate except "what ifs":icon_wink:

About insurance companies! They operate on the business practice of " The losses of the few are covered by the premiums of the many"

Ride Safe

[Steve 0080]

Scot's point was that the engineers who design the components are working with a LOT more information than Joe Customer who simply buys the tire, rides on it, and forms an opinion. That is indisputably true.

Regarding the bottom dollar being more important than safety... what do you think happens to the bottom dollar when safety is not there? People stop buying those products and profits suffer or the company goes under. History is littered with such cases. You're on the service side of a products lifecycle; my hat's off for being Master Certified. But if you spend time on the design side you would quickly realize that safety is in fact a very high priority. Ask me how I know :icon_biggrin:




If we believe vehicle manufacturers are driven solely by the dollar, why would we not believe insurers do the same. Discovering a car tire on a bike would be a pristine reason to refuse a claim.

Your powder coater friend could very well have turned the table and asked if you ever had a claim paid after crashing on the darkside. I assume the answer is no. I know very little about insurance but I do understand there's some discretion given to the adjuster. *Some*, not a lot. I tend to believe the insurance argument is not clear cut one way or the other... but the risk of a refusal exists and should be considered.



I asked my agent ... he said it had no effect ...State Farm ...Lake Mary,FL

I go back to what has been said MANY MANY MANY times on this and or boards...if you ain't tried it not sure how anyone could have an opinion either way, on anything!!!

[2kewlgypsy]

So, assuming insurance would be ok with it, would warranty service? Can Honda refuse to fix a motor problem or a trans problem because the found a CT (or for that matter you use 15W40 when their manual states 15W30?)
This is my first ever bike that I bought with 0 miles. I do all my work myself, and always have, but got to admit the warranty idea is appealing, I'd just hate to shoot it all to hell cause I have a CT on the bike when I roll it in. Anyone know for SURE what Honda would do?
2~kewl

[bob109]

So, assuming insurance would be ok with it, would warranty service? Can Honda refuse to fix a motor problem or a trans problem because the found a CT (or for that matter you use 15W40 when their manual states 15W30?)
This is my first ever bike that I bought with 0 miles. I do all my work myself, and always have, but got to admit the warranty idea is appealing, I'd just hate to shoot it all to hell cause I have a CT on the bike when I roll it in. Anyone know for SURE what Honda would do?
2~kewl

Doing your own maintenance will not void your warranty! Keep all your receipts for oil, filters, hypoid gear oil etc. I make a note on each receipt of the date the items were used with the mileage recorded.

Living in Pennsylvania I have a requirement for yearly vehicle inspections. Be it car, truck or motorcycle, the vehicle has to be submitted to a local inspection station for mechanical inspections which includes brake linings, horn, lights and of course tires. The Pa. Inspection Criteria states a DOT Approved Tire on a DOT Approver Rim! I carry a copy of that criteria on my motorcycle. I have never had issue at inspection time with my Car Tire. I've have read of one account where a motorcycle dealership mechanic refused to inspect a cycle which had a car tire. He stepped beyond his authority in doing so. If that were the case simply take the bike to another inspection station and "getter done":icon_wink:

With the addition of many aftermarket non OEM parts added to motorcycles, especially lowering kits and trailering kits the bikes are traded and sold by the dozens at Honda Dealerships! I've traded bikes at my local dealership and they would only accept the bike if I removed the CT and installed a cycle tire prior to doing the deal. That saves them the cost of tire replacement which they would add to the resale cost anyway!

[srt8-in-largo]

The same could be said or implied for riding a bike without a helmet and have a head injury and have your claim denied for that fact!

The same could be said or implied for folks who are "vertically impaired" and operate a cycle on their tippy toes!

The same could be said or implied for anyone lowering their cycle so they can flat foot (only applies to vertical impaired folks)!

The same could be said or implied for driving a 840 lb. cruiser like a sport bike!

The same could be said or implied for towing a trailer with a motorcycle!

The same could be said or implied for driving on a rear tire with the cords showing!

The above, like your statement on using a CT as a excuse to deny a claim, are all assumptions and conjecture!:shock:

Unless one has definitive proof that a insurance denial has occurred (News Paper Article etc.) we add nothing to a debate except "what ifs":icon_wink:

About insurance companies! They operate on the business practice of " The losses of the few are covered by the premiums of the many"

Ride Safe

Obviously the smart thing to do, then, is to add one more reason for a possible claim denial :icon_biggrin:




I asked my agent ... he said it had no effect ...State Farm ...Lake Mary,FL

I go back to what has been said MANY MANY MANY times on this and or boards...if you ain't tried it not sure how anyone could have an opinion either way, on anything!!!

Interesting; I wonder if they were being honest.

Not sure if you were implying that I have an opinion on the topic, because I don't. My only opinion is that folks become educated before making the plunge.

I've been seeing some mention that motorcycle rims have a different bead design than car tires. What is this difference and how does it impact CT fitment (rhetorical). Maybe most here understand such nuances but I don't and I assume many other new readers don't either.

[DMAGOLDRDR]

Along with my F6B and my Valk I have a 1978 GL1000 with a California Sidecar mounted. I will say the Sidecar is an accepted non OEM addition to my Old Wing but that Sidecar sure is a much larger alteration to my Motorcycle than the car tire is on my Valk.

My point is that many of us make changes that an Insurance Co or Good Lawyer can exploit if push comes to shove in a court room. A chance we must except with our changes!!


While i'm into it I will throw my Car Tire thoughts into the mix...............

For years I wanted to try a car tire on my Valk. It is a 2000 Interstate and as of late 2012 I had a bit under 90 thousand miles on the bike. The Valk is not my only bike, but the one that makes the larger trips as it is set up for long haul two up riding. I decided for this trip to take a friend up on his offer to throw a car tire on. He has 3 Valkyries all with Car Tires and had an extra mounted new tire on a Valk rim ready to go. I had done my researching and reading over the years and started adding up the pros and cons of a car tire on a road trip.

As in the past, our Sturgis trips take in 7000 miles in two weeks so this will be a great test.
I have found the extended highway speeds in the July/August heat, along with the bike tipping the scales at 1200lbs once loaded with gear and riding two up, sure does tear up tires fast. Sooo I mounted the NEXEN 205/60Ri6 tire

NOW after running the CT for well over 10 thousand miles and a years time...
I will say for anyone that thinks they a car tire doesn't handle, just look at what's left of my pegs... You will still corner just as hard and lean just as far as you always had. NO CHANGE. I had thought I would sacrifice cornering with a car tire but that was a non issue. No change from Bike to Car tire in the twisties. This year to Sturgis we took the Northern route from New England thru Canada down into North Dakota. Three days of rain gave a good wet road test. Straight up stopping is awesome with the car tire, and even leaned over I still had good traction on the wet roads.
BUT I think the Bike tire has a bit better traction leaned over on dry roads. That may change with your car tire choice. The NEXEN has very small tread blocks on the sides and I think the larger surface area of the bike tire gives it an edge . Although I never felt any slipping until I was accelerating a bit harder that I should have while leaning in a hard corner up hill...

PRO...
Flat repair much easier and can be run with a plug
Better at heavy load handling
Better wet traction Much better tread life
No Cupping to deal with.. (a big problem with bike tires)
On the Bearthooth Pass we ran into construction and rode 10 miles of dirt in the rain... I was glad I was on a Car Tire for that!!!

Con...
Low speed handling on uneven pavement
Motorcycle dealers don't like to deal with them (but small tire shops have no problem)

Pro or Con depending on how you look at it...
Slightly higher RPM (very slight, maybe 200rpm at 70mph)

[srt8-in-largo]

That last "Pro or Con" is due only to geometry, yes?

Another size CT would have slightly lower RPM, or if you go with OEM diameter RPM would stay the same.

[DMAGOLDRDR]

That last "Pro or Con" is due only to geometry, yes?

Another size CT would have slightly lower RPM, or if you go with OEM diameter RPM would stay the same.



There are many other options, I did not want to have any clearance issues. It gets pretty tight in there with a square tire. A taller but thinner tire such as the Austone Taxi Tire may work better.

[bob109]

Along with my F6B and my Valk I have a 1978 GL1000 with a California Sidecar mounted. I will say the Sidecar is an accepted non OEM addition to my Old Wing but that Sidecar sure is a much larger alteration to my Motorcycle than the car tire is on my Valk.

My point is that many of us make changes that an Insurance Co or Good Lawyer can exploit if push comes to shove in a court room. A chance we must except with our changes!!


While i'm into it I will throw my Car Tire thoughts into the mix...............

)

Thank you for your simple but eloquent description of your Dark Side Experience.:icon_biggrin: I don't believe I've ever read a more informative post on the subject:clap2: You covered all the bases and hit a Home Run:icon_wink: I could almost "Swear" that your post was written by Daniel Meyer, author of "Life is a Road":shhh:

[Scotrod]

Do any of you DS'ers actually know WHY the bike handles different with a CT than a MT, or do you just shrug it off as an anomaly? :shrug:

Can any of you explain (and/or understand) exactly why more counter-steer is required? Can you explain exactly what happens differently on your bike when you use a CT?

Or is it "don't know, doesn't matter, don't care?" :shrug:

Scraping hardparts and reduced front tire life (the latter more prevalent on aggressively ridden bikes) are direct clues, but I'm afraid 'cheap price/extended wear intervals/cushy ride' are talking the forefront of you decision making process, with 'haven't had any problems' as your sole justification/proof of redemption.

Each individuals decision making process / sense of values / is different. When you don't understand, don't have an opinion, don't care about 'an anomaly', your decisions may be different than those who do.

:stirthepot:

[bob109]

Do any of you DS'ers actually know WHY the bike handles different with a CT than a MT, or do you just shrug it off as an anomaly? :shrug:

Can any of you explain (and/or understand) exactly why more counter-steer is required? Can you explain exactly what happens differently on your bike when you use a CT?

Or is it "don't know, doesn't matter, don't care?" :shrug:

Scraping hardparts and reduced front tire life (the latter more prevalent on aggressively ridden bikes) are direct clues, but I'm afraid 'cheap price/extended wear intervals/cushy ride' are talking the forefront of you decision making process, with 'haven't had any problems' as your sole justification/proof of redemption.

Each individuals decision making process / sense of values / is different. When you don't understand, don't have an opinion, don't care about 'an anomaly', your decisions may be different than those who do.

:stirthepot:

Scot!

Just how bad was your Dark Side Experience:stirthepot:

[bob109]

Hope these video work:icon_biggrin:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIKnqxVUPXIALsr7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByYX I3cnIwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDNA--?p=auto+tire+testing&vid=4b57456f0b6da38db353863a8a3d228a&l=1%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 08032434410029221%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dnm o_dkNZIHM&tit=Tire+Force+Test&c=3&sigr=11as0aand&sigt=10f4vc64b&age=0&hsimp=yhs-vz&hspart=vz&tt=b

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=auto+tire+testing&vid=23bd283fc13f5c46c155a0c9f7d3a68c&l=1%3A24&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 08026799414576853%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8v 7Xcwxqp98&tit=Indoor+tire+testing&c=5&sigr=11aa145ah&sigt=10jsft74p&ct=p&age=0&hsimp=yhs-vz&hspart=vz&tt=b

[Scotrod]

Scot!

Just how bad was your Dark Side Experience:stirthepot:

It wasn't horrific, by any means, but as I'm sure I've said before,,, I never knew how much I missed a MT till I went back to a MT.

Stiffer ride? Yep, but the 'muddy' handling I'd "adapted to/learned to accept" with the CT after fiddle-fartin around with different air pressures was replaced with near effortless, crisp, precise handling whne I went back to a MT. Instead of 'carving a wide line', it felt like I could ride the white line with complete confidence...

That same precise handling is something that's never discussed as an issue with ANY MT at ANY 'close to normal' pressure, but with a CT, the very first thing you'll hear is 'adjust the pressure' to find that 'sweet spot',,, Up 2, down 4,,,, Break in the tire/loosen up the sidewalls,,, That 'fine tuning' is never needed for handling purposes on a MT, but it's 'step number one' with CT's,,,

Yet folks new to CT's seldom question 'why' all that fiddle-fartin around is necessary. Sooner or later, in the search for the 'sweet spot', you forget what the MT was like, and focus only on the characteristics of the CT. "Adaptation and Acceptance'

On my CT experience, I never questioned why all the fiddle fartin around was required, as I was certain there was some Holy Grail of "CT Superiority" somewhere,,, All I had to do was find that 'sweet spot',,,

Then I slipped on a MT,,, and the rest is history. :icon_wink:

And NEXT,,,, I wanted to know the 'science' behind exactly WHY there was such a difference in handling,, after all, if a tire is a tire is a tire***, why the difference? Why the understeer? Why am I draggin pegs all of a sudden? (*** We hopefully all know better, but for the sake of discussion, we'll consider CT and MT's 'equal')

If everything is equal,,, what is that CT doing to the bike that a MT doesn't that makes the difference in handling?

EXACTLY how is the CT affecting cornering,,, WHY does it require more counter-steer? Why does it create understeer?

THAT is the question so few DS'ers seem to be able to answer,,, (Those who ride MT's don't have to worry about it, so why should they bother with 'understanding' it?)

The Mic is open,,, Lets hear from the DS crowd exactly why CT's handle 'differently'? What do they do to the bike?

:stirthepot:

[Hornblower]

Scotrod...do you happen to remember what CT you had?

[srt8-in-largo]

Hope these video work:icon_biggrin:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=A2KLqIKnqxVUPXIALsr7w8QF;_ylu=X3oDMTByYX I3cnIwBHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDNA--?p=auto+tire+testing&vid=4b57456f0b6da38db353863a8a3d228a&l=1%3A33&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 08032434410029221%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dnm o_dkNZIHM&tit=Tire+Force+Test&c=3&sigr=11as0aand&sigt=10f4vc64b&age=0&hsimp=yhs-vz&hspart=vz&tt=b

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play?p=auto+tire+testing&vid=23bd283fc13f5c46c155a0c9f7d3a68c&l=1%3A24&turl=http%3A%2F%2Fts2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DVN.6 08026799414576853%26pid%3D15.1&rurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D8v 7Xcwxqp98&tit=Indoor+tire+testing&c=5&sigr=11aa145ah&sigt=10jsft74p&ct=p&age=0&hsimp=yhs-vz&hspart=vz&tt=b

What's your point here; that tires undergo testing, or CT's can carry a heckuva load, or something else?

We can be certain that CT's mounted on CT rims can handle higher loads but what load can a CT handle when mounted on a MT rim?





...

If everything is equal,,, what is that CT doing to the bike that a MT doesn't that makes the difference in handling?

EXACTLY how is the CT affecting cornering,,, WHY does it require more counter-steer? Why does it create understeer?

THAT is the question so few DS'ers seem to be able to answer,,, (Those who ride MT's don't have to worry about it, so why should they bother with 'understanding' it?)

The Mic is open,,, Lets hear from the DS crowd exactly why CT's handle 'differently'? What do they do to the bike?

:stirthepot:

Construction, materials, and geometry. Not only is a CT shaped differently than a MT, its' construction is different using different rubber compounds than a MT.

EDIT: The question remains, how do these differences work to produce the difference in handling.

[bob109]

Do any of you DS'ers actually know WHY the bike handles different with a CT than a MT, or do you just shrug it off as an anomaly? :shrug:

Can any of you explain (and/or understand) exactly why more counter-steer is required? Can you explain exactly what happens differently on your bike when you use a CT?


Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on the valid concerns/observations you raised. In a attempt to answer your questions I had to take some pictures of my 6 with the General G-max. Hopefully they will be of assistance in demonstrating what occurs with a CT when at rest, leaned etc.

First and foremost beyond the obvious difference in a MT's rounded thread/tread profile and the flat thread of a CT, the radial construction is different. My reference to a CT for this discussion is a non-run flat radial which in my case is the G-Max, having a single ply sidewall. The MT have extremely stiff sidewalls which are required to support and hold the curved tread profile in place while cornering and eliminate any sidewall "squirm" which is the first noticeable difference between it and a standard radial CT. The OEM G704 Bridgestone has the following! Thread/Tread 2 Aramid + 4 Nylon....Sidewall 3 Nylon. In comparison the G-Max has Thread/Tread 1 Polyester, 2 Steel, 2 Polymide....Sidewall 1 Polyester.

The extreme "stiffness" of the MT 3 ply sidewall makes the tire ride hard in comparison to the soft 1 ply sidewall of a normal non-runflat.
Herein is the key to the difference in handling. The MT simply rolls off tread center when cornering with zero resistance because of its stiff sidewalls and curved radius. The G-Max in this case relies on the soft 1 ply sidewall to actually "squat" which allows the thread edge to flatten. This actions is what some refer to as "tire squirm" and in reality what is occurring is "sidewall squat" for the lack of a better term.

Most normal non-runflat radial car tires exhibit sidewall bulge. Just take a good close look at any auto or truck which has conventional radials and you will notice the lowest portion to the sidewall protruding beyond the thread edge. It is this normal function of a radial CT which allows it to work on a motorcycle. When cornering with the CT you are actually making the sidewall bulge enlarge in the direction you are turning and the opposite side of the thread which is now "unloaded" has no bulge showing. When uprighted the normal sidewall bulge on both sides of the tire returns. Turn in the opposite direction and the same sidewall action occurs. This action allows the use of the entire width of the thread/tread without ever riding on the sidewalls!

I have some personal preference regarding CT's. First is thread design with a symmetric, directional thread with sufficient sipes for water channeling. As CT carry a Tread-wear Rating a 400 or above is a good start. Maximum Pressure rating should be at least 50 PSI.

One of the most important functions when equipping a cycle with a CT is discovering the "sweetspot" for air pressure. Too high and the tire will tend to break loose in hard cornering! Too soft and the tire will exhibit unacceptable "squirm"! After scrubbing off the mold release agent which usually occurs within the first 50/100 miles I'll adjust the pressure from a starting point of 36/38 lbs. in 2 lb increments. My current G-Max started at 38psi and I finally settled at 41/42 for the "Holy Grail".

I'm attaching some pics of my bike on the side stand. I'm sure if my 250lb. a$$ was in the saddle the "radial tire bulge" would be a bit more pronounced:yikes:

8593859485958596

This G-Max has just over 20K of wear. You can note the tread wear is even across the tire face and there is not a sign of any sidewall wear:icon_wink:

[DMAGOLDRDR]

[QUOTE=Scotrod;46987]Do any of you DS'ers actually know WHY the bike handles different with a CT than a MT, or do you just shrug it off as an anomaly? :shrug:

Can any of you explain (and/or understand) exactly why more counter-steer is required? Can you explain exactly what happens differently on your bike when you use a CT?

Or is it "don't know, doesn't matter, don't care?" :shrug:




I am no expert by any means, but understand how and why. I don't know if I could explain it very well though.
Tire and Motorcycle designers put much effort into tire size, rake and trail to get a Motorcycle to handle well. BUT as many orther aspects of a motorcycle they are very general (such as seat and windshields) The OEM is looking for a good well rounded handling Motorcycle that will fit everyones needs. Tire size and the difference in size front to back changes handleing. Larger tire in the rear will change rake and trail and change the steering effort. So will lowering the rear. Everthing makes a difference.
With two rounded tires, or M/T front and back, as you lean the tire diameter gets smaller and the bike rolls into a corner but slow ever so slightly, which is why riders are always told to ease on the throttle in corners. But a C/T does not get smaller in diameter as you lean so you need to ad input (counter steer) to help the bike lean and go through the corner.
As I reread this I just don't think I can get my point across well. I will have to see what may be written on the subject to help me get my poin across...

[Scotrod]

Scotrod...do you happen to remember what CT you had?

Yup,,, Michelin HE on a VTX1800. Unclear on the exact size, other than the 'recommended' size. (Was also the 'recommended/popular' MFR/model of CT for the bike at the time.)

[Scotrod]

Good efforts so far at 'the difference',,,, :yes:

It all boils down to keeping the front and rear contact patch's in line relative to the centerline of the bike.

The front stays relatively 'close' to the CL regardless of lean as its a narrow, 'very rounded' profile tire.

As, for all intents and purposes, the front tire seldom get a huge modification in width/rounded profile,,, It remains a ~constant~ in this explanation

Changing the rear (most common) is where the imbalance is created.

The contact patch on CT (or some 'look at me!' fat azz MT's) will move farther away quicker from the bikes C/L when camber (lean) is added than a OEM sized/shaped MT. In essence, you have the rear tire's contact patch following a tighter line around a corner than the front,,, requiring more counter-steer /, more lean / more 'push' on the front tire than if the rear was 'in line' with the front. Crab steer. All of a sudden, your draggin hard parts,,, not because you are going faster, but because you're leaning farther to correct the understeer.

The worst possible tire with the least amount of lean required to move the rear contact patch the farthest away from C/L the quickest would be a wide, stiff-walled tire with a flat tread face (Example would be a RF CT),:icon_frown: :no:

A 'soft wall' CT requires more lean before the 'outside' sidewall starts lifting the tread than a RF,,, but in the meantime, the 'inside' sidewall is deforming/being compressed as the inside rim bead bears down against the tire.

This is where the 'sweet spot' you hear about can come into play,,,, You want just enough air to keep that inner sidewall from turning 'limp' in a corner, but no so much air it remains rigid/lifts the outer sidewall too far. The 'goal' is to get that CT to corner like a MT, by keeping roll/lift to a minimum, and keeping both the front and rear contact patch's as close to in line with each other and the centerline of the frame,,,,, regardless of camber. Something that folks who use OEM sized MT's typically don't have to worry about,,, (We ain't talking about Big Dog bikes, WCC, or other store-bought 'choppers',,,)

Sidewalls on MC tires are stiff as wood. CT sidewalls are limp. Go down to the local Wally World and push in a sidewall with your finger on any display tire. Then go to a Stealer and try to do the same with a MT. No comparison. Much stiffer SW on the MT, which results in consistent tire shape regardless of lean. Combine that with the rounded profile of the MT tread, and you are as close as you most likely will ever be with the rear contact patch following the same line as the front contact patch while cornering.

Skinny front tires and 'look at me' jumbo-wide rear MT tires are equally 'mis-matched',,,, Looks good sittin still at the local bar, but corners like an old pickup truck,,, :icon_doh:

Once you wrap your mind around the 'cause/effect' of the CT, RF or NRF, and what it does to the suspension geometry of your bike while cornering, it isn't quite so appealing,,,

[hiflyer]

So to change the discussion up a little, what the heck is going on with my front tire? 11k miles running 40psi, monitored closely. Seems like a weird wear pattern to me.

[Steve 0080]

So, assuming insurance would be ok with it, would warranty service? Can Honda refuse to fix a motor problem or a trans problem because the found a CT (or for that matter you use 15W40 when their manual states 15W30?)
This is my first ever bike that I bought with 0 miles. I do all my work myself, and always have, but got to admit the warranty idea is appealing, I'd just hate to shoot it all to hell cause I have a CT on the bike when I roll it in. Anyone know for SURE what Honda would do?
2~kewl

HONDA dealer did my Progressive suspension install and did not mention the CT on the rear? As far as warranty, take it off before you go in if you feel there will be an issue... I did have an idiot at a dealer tell me because I had drilled the pipes on my Rune, that was the reason the throttle body went bad..... kinda like when I was a child and put shocks on my 1967 Firebird... My Dad asked if it was faster??? Hell Ya!!!

[Steve 0080]

So to change the discussion up a little, what the heck is going on with my front tire? 11k miles running 40psi, monitored closely. Seems like a weird wear pattern to me.

Check the date it was made...short of that...Have you really been keeping a close eye on the air pressure???

[hiflyer]

Check the date it was made...short of that...Have you really been keeping a close eye on the air pressure???

Really!

[Steve 0080]

I have only run two CT's on bikes... The first was a Bridgestone Potenza , The second, is the Michelin Alpine RF..... With the Potenze you did have to counter steer the bike...I did not really like this tire or the feel. With the Michelin, there is no difference that I can feel between it and a MT.

As far as Sweet Spot.... this was explained to me..... get some white shoe polish and mark a line across your tire...drive for 100 feet as vertical as possible...stop and see if the white mark is worn evenly if not adjust accordingly ...

At the risk of :icon_deadhorse: this discussion will never end or change anyones minds...we are to old to change our minds.....just sayin

[Steve 0080]

Really!



Check your man date on your tire...there must be a reason why some get poor mileage and others get great mileage when both really check their air pressure. I think it because of older tires... will have to see if anyone has older tires...mine where 4 months old when installed???

[hiflyer]

Check your man date on your tire...there must be a reason why some get poor mileage and others get great mileage when both really check their air pressure. I think it because of older tires... will have to see if anyone has older tires...mine where 4 months old when installed???

I check them every Saturday morning, for me, that's monitored closely.

[Steve 0080]

I check them every Saturday morning, for me, that's monitored closely.



OK then...when were your tires made???

[bobbyf6b]

So to change the discussion up a little, what the heck is going on with my front tire? 11k miles running 40psi, monitored closely. Seems like a weird wear pattern to me.

Mine wore the same way. I think it's because of the harder rubber compound in the middle for longer wear. The sides are softer for better traction.

[bob109]

Mine wore the same way. I think it's because of the harder rubber compound in the middle for longer wear. The sides are softer for better traction.

+1 My OEM front exhibited the same wear pattern with 16.5K miles!

[Hornblower]

Yup,,, Michelin HE on a VTX1800. Unclear on the exact size, other than the 'recommended' size. (Was also the 'recommended/popular' MFR/model of CT for the bike at the time.)

The reason I ask is that I had a somewhat similar experience with a Michelin Pilot Sport AS on my Rocket III. It wasn't all that bad really but did exhibit some of the characteristics that you described, the most noticeable of which was countersteering effort. The Kumho Ecsta RF currently on my "6" is much better in that regard. No doubt, tire choice is of supreme importance in going darkside. Just because a few other people run a particular tire doesn't necessarily guarantee you've made the best choice.

[Phantom]

So to change the discussion up a little, what the heck is going on with my front tire? 11k miles running 40psi, monitored closely. Seems like a weird wear pattern to me.


Looks like normal wear as others have mentioned.

The Bridgestone front tire is a Dual compound tire, like Bobby stated, the side rubber is softer and designed for better traction yet wears faster then the center hard rubber designed for the long haul.

[Scotrod]

Looks like normal wear as others have mentioned.

The Bridgestone front tire is a Dual compound tire, like Bobby stated, the side rubber is softer and designed for better traction yet wears faster then the center hard rubber designed for the long haul.

Although I don't believe the DC feature is advertised by B-stone, I'm not sure how else the wear characteristics we are seeing in the fronts could be achieved.

I know Avon Cobra's use VBD (Variable Belt Density) to 'adjust' the tires rate of flex per degree of camber,,,

A understood by me, the center section has a denser concentration of steel wires, while the sides have a lesser concentration, resulting in a wider footprint,,,

I remember when I went from the worn out OEM rear 'Lop to a new Cobra rear on my VTX,,,, Initial thought was the rear tire felt underinflated/soft while cornering,,, :shock: I remember re-checking the pressure,,, the difference between the old/new was that 'pronounced',,,

I really liked the handling of those Cobra's,,, but,,, 2 outta of 2 times, I had belt separation/failure in the exact same spot of tread, each time at about 75% wear / 8-9k miles,,,

(The 2nd Cobra was a pro rated replacement for the first. It was also the same MT I had laying around that went on after I pulled the CT. )

[bob109]

I'm providing these pics of sectioned tire carcasses without any captions! I'll leave that up to Scottrod to demonstrate his wisdom on what they are and what they represent. Never being short for words or offering his opinion, I know he'll jump on the opportunity like a good Beagle on a Rabbit:stirthepot:

86638664866586668667

[bob109]

I'm providing these pics of sectioned tire carcasses without any captions! I'll leave that up to Scottrod to demonstrate his wisdom on what they are and what they represent. Never being short for words or offering his opinion, I know he'll jump on the opportunity like a good Beagle on a Rabbit:stirthepot:

86638664866586668667


Oh where, oh where is Scotrod when we need him:lolup::stirthepot:

[Scotrod]

I've seen all these pics before. Do you see something in them now that's contrary to statements made in this thread?

if so, which ones? :shrug:

[BIGLRY]

I run darkside on some and not on others, I have my reasons that I won't go into here, but since there were pic I thought I'd add another to the thread.
Also it might be noted that the pro motorcycle road racers rear tires are usually never bigger than a 180, you don't see them with the big Phat tires so many guys like to run on the street..... ever wonder why that is?:icon_lol:

Another special characteristic of motorcycle tires is the use of large camber angles when turning.....
8785

[srt8-in-largo]

How bout this guy, is he "light"siding? :icon_biggrin:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-tKzKx4lpozc/VCNh6yHj94I/AAAAAAAACJk/ipPutlUI1sg/s800/MillikenMX1CamberCar1960.jpg

[Scotrod]

And some of this stuff ya just can't make up!!!

From a DS forum,,,,

Here is a still from a guy who made a movie,,, Proclaiming his love for a CT:

8787

Posts there after:

Interesting video. Do all tires flex like that in the turn? Just curious.

They all flex to some extent, depending on pressure and sidewall stiffness. Wouldn't want one that didn't.

And ya know,,, somebody, somewhere, deep in their heart,,, is honestly going to think "What's wrong with that?"

[bobbyf6b]

Come now! You know folks who "Dark Side" are absolutely crazy and will face a untimely and horrible death. This is especially true if they "Double Dark Side":stirthepot: Why would a person install a 195/55-R16 General G-Max Directional Radial Car Tire on the rear and then install a 130/70-18 Bridgestone BT45 Battlax Rear Cycle Tire on the front:yikes: Could a 840+ lb. behemoth like the F6B wear tires like that and not kill the rider:shock: It surrrrrrrre can:clap2:

Bob, do you have any handling issues with a front bias tire and a rear radial? I was always told to NEVER mix the two on the same vehicle, especially a motorcycle. I finally scored a spare rear rim so I'll be crossing over to the darkside soon.

9059

[bob109]

Bob, do you have any handling issues with a front bias tire and a rear radial? I was always told to NEVER mix the two on the same vehicle, especially a motorcycle. I finally scored a spare rear rim so I'll be crossing over to the darkside soon.

9059

Absolutely none! The Bias Battlax Front, IMHO provides "crisper handling" than the OEM Stone. Like you, I had "old school" training about mixing bias/radial tire until Yamaha released it 1900cc Raider with a stock Bias Front and Radial Rear. When a major manufacturer like Yamaha takes it on their own, or at least it engineers, to step to the plate and endorse the concept, who am I to argue:icon_wink:

With just over 5400 miles of wear on the Ax, I'm elated with its wear and performance:icon_biggrin:

[bobbyf6b]

Absolutely none! The Bias Battlax Front, IMHO provides "crisper handling" than the OEM Stone. Like you, I had "old school" training about mixing bias/radial tire until Yamaha released it 1900cc Raider with a stock Bias Front and Radial Rear. When a major manufacturer like Yamaha takes it on their own, or at least it engineers, to step to the plate and endorse the concept, who am I to argue:icon_wink:

With just over 5400 miles of wear on the Ax, I'm elated with its wear and performance:icon_biggrin:

That's good to hear, thanks.

[vstar09]

Honda makes cars... Honda makes Motorcycles......Why do they put car tires on cars and motorcycle tires on motorcycles......Must be a reason....?

[bobbyf6b]

Anyways...

:icon_rolleyes:

[bob109]

Honda makes cars... Honda makes Motorcycles......Why do they put car tires on cars and motorcycle tires on motorcycles......Must be a reason....?

Kind of hard to ride on the rims:icon_doh:

[hiflyer]

Got a Michelin on the bike last evening, will be going for a ride this afternoon to check it out.

[Steve 0080]

Got a Michelin on the bike last evening, will be going for a ride this afternoon to check it out.


Great tire...!!!!!

[Scotrod]

First Crack,,, then Meth,,,

and now Bobby / HiFly on CT's,,,, :shock:

Same rational,,, You know everyone says you shouldn't do it, but,,, but,,, you go ahead anyway,,,

Fred down the street 'does it',,, He says it's friggin GREAT!!!! Besides,, you get the 'wink wink nod nod' ~cookies~ and ya get a Darth sticker for your our bike, kinda like the rainbow Gay folks use,,,

But,,,,, after that first ''ride'', That first 'buzz',, That first "I didn't die!!!!",,,, you forget the downsides,,, You do it again and again just because you KNOW all the nay-sayers were WRONG!!! Your very existence is proof positive YOU know the 'secret', and that the world is full of deceit,,, You KNOW you have been lied too!!!

You continue to overlook the side effects,,, doesn't matter,,, You did it, you like it, you didn't die,,, what more proof do you need???

Your hooked,,,,

:icon_frown:

And they say there is no Satan,,,

:icon_laugh:

[hiflyer]

First Crack,,, then Meth,,,

and now Bobby / HiFly on CT's,,,, :shock:

Same rational,,, You know everyone says you shouldn't do it, but,,, but,,, you go ahead anyway,,,

Fred down the street 'does it',,, He says it's friggin GREAT!!!! Besides,, you get the 'wink wink nod nod' ~cookies~ and ya get a Darth sticker for your our bike, kinda like the rainbow Gay folks use,,,

But,,,,, after that first ''ride'', That first 'buzz',, That first "I didn't die!!!!",,,, you forget the downsides,,, You do it again and again just because you KNOW all the nay-sayers were WRONG!!! Your very existence is proof positive YOU know the 'secret', and that the world is full of deceit,,, You KNOW you have been lied too!!!

You continue to overlook the side effects,,, doesn't matter,,, You did it, you like it, you didn't die,,, what more proof do you need???

Your hooked,,,,

:icon_frown:

And they say there is no Satan,,,

:icon_laugh:

I may get me an overdose of crack this evening.....wife has been out of town, due back this evening.....about the same time I get back from my ride. I'll let you know how both rides go.:icon_wink:

[Scotrod]

I may get me an overdose of crack this evening.....wife has been out of town, due back this evening.....about the same time I get back from my ride. I'll let you know how both rides go.:icon_wink:

:postpics:

:icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin: :icon_biggrin:

[bobbyf6b]

G-Max on order. I can't wait.

Now I need to find a rainbow Darth Vader sticker. :crackup:

[SpeedyWho]

We need to do an actual test a brand new CT vs a brand new MC. Many times people swap tires out when their current tire is wore out, so a new tire is going to handle and ride much better. I would like to know if anyone has tried new vs new tires.

[Scotrod]

G-Max on order. I can't wait.

Now I need to find a rainbow Darth Vader sticker. :crackup:

Careful now!!!

http://ih1.redbubble.net/image.16564833.7569/sticker,375x360.png

http://www.redbubble.com/people/instinckt/works/11867453-rainbow-darth-vader-shirt?p=t-shirt

:yikes:

Bobby,,, there's still time,,,,,,

Like Nancy R would say,,, "JUST SAY NO!" :nono:

[Scotrod]

We need to do an actual test a brand new CT vs a brand new MC. Many times people swap tires out when their current tire is wore out, so a new tire is going to handle and ride much better. I would like to know if anyone has tried new vs new tires.

How about comparing a 2500 mile CT vs a new Cobra?

Been there, done that, The CT went out to the curb! :icon_biggrin:

(:shhh: Actually, any good darth-sider will tell ya you have to 'break in' the new CT sidewalls a bit,, and then find that 'sweet spot' of inflation,,, so at 2500, it's about as good as it's gonna get, BETTER than new!!! )

[Scotrod]

I may get me an overdose of crack this evening.....wife has been out of town, due back this evening.....about the same time I get back from my ride. I'll let you know how both rides go.:icon_wink:

So where's Hi-Fly???

A victim of "Dangerous Curves", or still fiddling with his air pressure? :shock:

[hiflyer]

So where's Hi-Fly???

A victim of "Dangerous Curves", or????

Yesterday was a good day, wifey made it home safely, and I rode all afternoon.....on a car tire!:yikes: I have to say that I was expecting the bike to handle differently, yet after a few miles, I didn't give it anymore thought. I like it, in spite of what some may say are downsides. Excuse me, what were they again?

[Scotrod]

. Excuse me, what were they again?

LOL!!!! How soon you forget!!!

Same old song and dance,,, "Didn't die", so it must be good! :shock:

It's too late for you,,, you're already in denial!!! :spank:

Go getcha one of them stickers now!!! :crackup:

[hiflyer]

LOL!!!! How soon you forget!!!

Same old song and dance,,, "Didn't die", so it must be good! :shock:

It's too late for you,,, you're already in denial!!! :spank:

Go getcha one of them stickers now!!! :crackup:

All I said, was I like it. You tried it and made your choice of what you will do going forward. That's all I'm doin' man, just trying it out, to make my own decision.

[Scotrod]

Heh heh heh!

Yep, I liked mine when I first tried it too!!! Rode it 2500 miles,,, I got very 'used to it',,,

Only after going back did I realize exactly what I was missing. If I had to define that in one word, it would be 'Precision'. Some folks have different priorities / different expectations. Ya never know until ya try, and in my case, never knew until I went back.

[hiflyer]

Heh heh heh!

Yep, I liked mine when I first tried it too!!! Rode it 2500 miles,,, I got very 'used to it',,,

Only after going back did I realize exactly what I was missing. If I had to define that in one word, it would be 'Precision'. Some folks have different priorities / different expectations. Ya never know until ya try, and in my case, never knew until I went back.

:icon_doh: Now I know why all those guys coming at us were running wide on the Dragon when we were up there for the rally. They musta had car tires on their bikes. Yep, that's it. No other reason for that type a non-precision ridin. :shrug:

[bobbyf6b]

I mostly want it for the mileage. I use my 6 as a daily commuter 60+ miles round trip. All freeway. Usually you get two rear MC tires to one front tire. Getting them to wear out at the same time would be sweet.

[srt8-in-largo]

If I can be open to the idea of God and space aliens, I think I can be open to the idea of certain uses that favor car tires... but, man, you guys on CT's must not be pushing your bikes very hard in the handling department. It would bug me to have to go around turns sitting vertically (:stirthepot:). The 6 has a 43 degree lean potential... that's sport bike territory... and that's a lot of fun to be giving up for better mileage, cost, and rain performance. I guess we all have a different set of trade-offs.

[srt8-in-largo]

Since the rear is so easy to change... maybe ideally you'd have a CT on one rim for long trips and a MT on another rim for FUN days :icon_biggrin:

[Phantom]

you guys on CT's must not be pushing your bikes very hard in the handling department. It would bug me to have to go around turns sitting vertically (:stirthepot:).


:crackup:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzPRD_oRDPY

[shooter]

Yesterday was a good day, wifey made it home safely, and I rode all afternoon.....on a car tire!:yikes: I have to say that I was expecting the bike to handle differently, yet after a few miles, I didn't give it anymore thought. I like it, in spite of what some may say are downsides. Excuse me, what were they again?

Don't pay any attention to Scot. He's just jealous. It's not everyone that can tempt fate , stare death in the face and laugh at it , go to hell and back or just put a tire on your scooter and ride it. You didn't catch fire and you didn't wreck. Helluva day.

[shooter]

If I can be open to the idea of God and space aliens, I think I can be open to the idea of certain uses that favor car tires... but, man, you guys on CT's must not be pushing your bikes very hard in the handling department. It would bug me to have to go around turns sitting vertically (:stirthepot:). The 6 has a 43 degree lean potential... that's sport bike territory... and that's a lot of fun to be giving up for better mileage, cost, and rain performance. I guess we all have a different set of trade-offs.

I'm generally horizontal.

[53driver]

I like at 8:40ish, the Wing pulled away like it was meant to fly....
Awesome vid. Probably shouldn't have watched it given my plans for tomorrow.....lol.
Cheers,
Steve

[hiflyer]

Since the rear is so easy to change... maybe ideally you'd have a CT on one rim for long trips and a MT on another rim for FUN days :icon_biggrin:

Exactly. But to open another can of worms, why do most guys on motorcycles think they are "Speed Racer". I've seen way too many guys on the verge of out of control, anytime they get on a road that's not straight. I'm probably not the norm, but I would rather ride a thousand miles a day and see this great country of ours, as opposed to 10 miles of "go as fast as you can and hope you don't crash" twisties. I've done the racing thing,(on a race course where it belongs) topped off with a #1 championship, I can enjoy twisting roads without going balls to the wall.

[srt8-in-largo]

That guy is getting good lean but look at how tentative he is in the curves... he's even counter-weighting with his body against the turn as if there's some lack of confidence.

Contrast that to YellowWolf:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nrMQ3QwyPo

[srt8-in-largo]

Maybe this is a contrast in driving skill but YW looks a lot more inspired and confident, to the point of actually accelerating out of the curve. The guy above looks like he's coasting through the curves :icon_lol:

[SpeedyWho]

Since the rear is so easy to change... maybe ideally you'd have a CT on one rim for long trips and a MT on another rim for FUN days :icon_biggrin:

Thats a good point I like that idea.:clap2:

[srt8-in-largo]

Yes! Thanks Speedy; with your confirmation I have now reached my quota of one good idea per year :icon_lol:

[Steve 0080]

If I can be open to the idea of God and space aliens, I think I can be open to the idea of certain uses that favor car tires... but, man, you guys on CT's must not be pushing your bikes very hard in the handling department. It would bug me to have to go around turns sitting vertically (:stirthepot:). The 6 has a 43 degree lean potential... that's sport bike territory... and that's a lot of fun to be giving up for better mileage, cost, and rain performance. I guess we all have a different set of trade-offs.

I was in NC this past week with some of the FASTEST guys know to man on a Goldwing, Racecraft.....Only one had a MC tire...I can promice you...for a fact for me to TRY to stay with them would lead to my untimely death !!! Those guys are that good...not sure about the 43* lean angle...all I saw was sparkes leaving me in the dust!!!!! And yes I do have a heart condition !

[srt8-in-largo]

Here's an interesting read; actually the arguments in the comments section are more interesting than the article!

The points about technological progression, and the money and markets that drive that progression, are good ones.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/voices/why-so-called-darksiders-prefer-auto-tires-on-their-motorcycles?src=soc_fcbks

[hiflyer]

Here's an interesting read; actually the arguments in the comments section are more interesting than the article!

The points about technological progression, and the money and markets that drive that progression, are good ones.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/voices/why-so-called-darksiders-prefer-auto-tires-on-their-motorcycles?src=soc_fcbks

Interesting article. The Bruce Steever dude that calls himself a professional cracked me up. Professionals do not use foul language in a public forum, nor are they abusive in their conversations. He is a wanttabe.

[choptop]

When I was a young farm boy my first car was jacked up in back and had an implement tire on it, no body could figure out how a hay wagon could do a i legged burn out. Always had wide tires in back but ended up lowering things, might have been the influence of the Hispanic wife of (4) years, always loved the rumble of glass packs, my Warrior, a couple of bikes back, had a 280 on the back, I was poised to go and put a 23" or so on the front of my harley w/the needed rake and then I found the 6. Was all hot to get the ct and go w/an aftermarket exhaust, must be getting older, like the looks of a mc tire on a motorcycle and love to listen to my first ever radio on a bike.

And life goes on.

[srt8-in-largo]

Interesting article. The Bruce Steever dude that calls himself a professional cracked me up. Professionals do not use foul language in a public forum, nor are they abusive in their conversations. He is a wanttabe.

Yeah.. not sure if that was his finest hour. He seems to be a pretty good example of someone who is so anti-darksiding that they can't even recognize that there are some benefits. The darksiding that he did was 10 years ago, was for only a handful of miles, and gave no regard to finding the right air pressure.

I bet he doesn't believe in God or space aliens either :icon_biggrin:

[srt8-in-largo]

I was in NC this past week with some of the FASTEST guys know to man on a Goldwing, Racecraft.....Only one had a MC tire...I can promice you...for a fact for me to TRY to stay with them would lead to my untimely death !!! Those guys are that good...not sure about the 43* lean angle...all I saw was sparkes leaving me in the dust!!!!! And yes I do have a heart condition !

I have no doubt that a skilled rider can handle a darksided bike better than me on any MT... however... I still tend to believe that a MT would (or should) work better in the twisties.

[srt8-in-largo]

I'm generally horizontal.

:lolup:

[bobbyf6b]

Got it mounted. Gonna add Ride On in the morning and try it out.

9178

[bob109]

Keep us posted as to your DS Experience:icon_biggrin:

[bobbyf6b]

9180 9181 9182

Mounting on the bike was super easy. Literally took five minutes.

32 psi. First impression is it turns slower. Feels heavier. Instead of the bike feeling half its size it feels like you would think a bike this size would feel. I need more air though. It's a little squirrely out of a corner with hard throttle.

I like it! It's just a learning curve. For commuting it will be perfect and if I want to switch back to the MC tire it only takes a few minutes.

[Steve 0080]

I have no doubt that a skilled rider can handle a darksided bike better than me on any MT... however... I still tend to believe that a MT would (or should) work better in the twisties.

All I can say is Murgie is THE FASTEST person to ride a GW in the USA !!! Then again I am sure he would allow anyone to try and pass him as well.....

[bob109]

9180 9181 9182


32 psi. First impression is it turns slower. Feels heavier. Instead of the bike feeling half its size it feels like you would think a bike this size would feel. I need more air though. It's a little squirrely out of a corner with hard throttle.


Go to 42psi and you will be "golden"! Looks like your tire is a General G-Max by its thread pattern:icon_biggrin:

[Steve 0080]

Bob, I run 32# in my Alpine and like they way it handles the Tail of the Gator.... Yes I have run the pressures up in the twistys but for normal driving 32# works out great...is the difference just the tire?

[bob109]

Bob, I run 32# in my Alpine and like they way it handles the Tail of the Gator.... Yes I have run the pressures up in the twistys but for normal driving 32# works out great...is the difference just the tire?

Steve:

If your Alpine is a Run Flat the 32psi would be fine due to its stiff sidewall. Unlike the Apline, the General G-Max has a single ply sidewall and requires the higher pressure i.e. 40/42psi to reduce/eliminate "tire squirm". I'm just shy of 22K miles on my Max and have maintained 42psi for over 19K of those miles and the ride and performance have been well above my expectations regarding a Non-Run Flat Tire! I brought along a mounted spare and will be mounting it shortly, as I arrived in sunny Fl. With the potential for quick and unpredictable "downpours" I don't want to be caught with a well worn CT:shock:

[bobbyf6b]

Steve:

If your Alpine is a Run Flat the 32psi would be fine due to its stiff sidewall. Unlike the Apline, the General G-Max has a single ply sidewall and requires the higher pressure i.e. 40/42psi to reduce/eliminate "tire squirm". I'm just shy of 22K miles on my Max and have maintained 42psi for over 19K of those miles and the ride and performance have been well above my expectations regarding a Non-Run Flat Tire! I brought along a mounted spare and will be mounting it shortly, as I arrived in sunny Fl. With the potential for quick and unpredictable "downpours" I don't want to be caught with a well worn CT:shock:

That's where I went wrong! :icon_doh: For some reason 32psi was stuck in my head. That's for the RF. I will put 42 in and try again. Thanks Bob!

And yes it's a G-Max, per your recommendation. I like the tread pattern and I didn't really want a winter tire in the heat we have here. I also didn't get a RF for a smoother ride. I'm sure reducing the pressure evens that out.

[bigbird]

http://hondaf6b.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9180&d=1413654988

Sorry, but that looks sooooooo wrong.

[bob109]

http://hondaf6b.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9180&d=1413654988

Sorry, but that looks sooooooo wrong.

Put the "Logic" back on the shelf! It doesn't belong anywhere in or on the Dark Side Subject:shhh:

[Scotrod]

That's where I went wrong! :icon_doh: For some reason 32psi was stuck in my head. That's for the RF. I will put 42 in and try again. Thanks Bob!

.

Remember,,,,,,,,,, Ya gotta find that 'Sweet Spot'!!! Once the tire gets 'broke in', you might have to add a couple lbs,,, Bump it up for the twisties, back it down some for the super slab,,, :icon_mrgreen:

Put about 480 miles on the new 888 / 709 today. (No 'sweet spot' required!) :icon_biggrin:

Handling??? '100% Seamless',,, from 1/2 a degree lean to shootin sparks,,, Very light and 'flickable'. No boat-rowing the bars, no under steer, just a great bike acting like it's manufacturer intended it to.

Perhaps the only test will be to see how long the 888 lasts. Still hard to beat the Stones for the 'bang for the buck'.

[Scotrod]

http://hondaf6b.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9180&d=1413654988

Sorry, but that looks sooooooo wrong.

Once in a blue moon, here in Houston. I see a CT poking out from under a bike,, Kinda gives me a chuckle!

Saw a guy with one on some 'Metric twin' a while back,,, Center worn out, edges all cupped ta snot,,, and he was bragging to his buddies about how great it was,,, :shock:

He was true "Jerry Springer Show" material,,,,,,,, He just had that 'aura' about him, ya know!?!? :crackup:

[bobbyf6b]

Once in a blue moon, here in Houston. I see a CT poking out from under a bike,, Kinda gives me a chuckle!

Saw a guy with one on some 'Metric twin' a while back,,, Center worn out, edges all cupped ta snot,,, and he was bragging to his buddies about how great it was,,, :shock:

He was true "Jerry Springer Show" material,,,,,,,, He just had that 'aura' about him, ya know!?!? :crackup:

9192

[Scotrod]

The beatings will continue until morale improves!!!

:spank:

:067:"darth/vader2'

:crackup:

[bobbyf6b]

9195

[Scotrod]

LOL!

Not familiar with that one, but it looks like fun! :icon_biggrin:

[Blotar]

Almost 15K miles on my Falken Ziex 912. No learning curve. Very little slow speed inputs from the tire. I love it and fully expect to get another 15k out of the same tire. I really do love this tire!
Blotar:icon_biggrin:

[Hornblower]

Almost 15K miles on my Falken Ziex 912. No learning curve. Very little slow speed inputs from the tire. I love it and fully expect to get another 15k out of the same tire. I really do love this tire!
Blotar:icon_biggrin:

The fastest guys on Gold Wings that I know are running the Falken 612 (same tire as 912, I'm told). I have one ready to put on next. If it's any better than my current Kumho, it will be fantastic.

[bobbyf6b]

The fastest guys on Gold Wings that I know are running the Falken 612 (same tire as 912, I'm told). I have one ready to put on next. If it's any better than my current Kumho, it will be fantastic.

I wonder why they choose that tire, it's not a directional tread.

[Hornblower]

I wonder why they choose that tire, it's not a directional tread.

Basically, it's trial and error. Also, these guys ride so aggressively, they're going through a lot of tires. As a result, they want tires that perform great but aren't expensive. I bought this last Falken 612 at Discount Tire for around $70 including tax.

[shooter]

That's where I went wrong! :icon_doh: For some reason 32psi was stuck in my head. That's for the RF. I will put 42 in and try again. Thanks Bob!

And yes it's a G-Max, per your recommendation. I like the tread pattern and I didn't really want a winter tire in the heat we have here. I also didn't get a RF for a smoother ride. I'm sure reducing the pressure evens that out.
Bobby I run the G- Max and ride two up most of the time. 45 psi works great for me.

[Scotrod]

Also, these guys ride so aggressively, they're going through a lot of tires. .

If that's their 'style', I kinda wonder why they don't get a bike made for aggressive riding??? :shrug:

I mean, jeez, Wings are like Suburbans/Excursions,,, You can rail the snot out of 'em, but they are still behemoths, and yes, you will go through a lot of tires doing so,,, :shrug:

[bob109]

Bobby I run the G- Max and ride two up most of the time. 45 psi works great for me.

The nice thing about the G-Max is its 51psi Max Pressure feature. There's plenty of pressure room to zero in on the "sweet spot". My advice to anyone using the tire would be to start at 40psi and work up the pressure scale in increments of 2psi. With its 1 ply side wall, the Max doesn't like lower pressures. Tire Squirm will be really noticeable with lower pressures:icon_wink:

[Steve 0080]

If that's their 'style', I kinda wonder why they don't get a bike made for aggressive riding??? :shrug:

I mean, jeez, Wings are like Suburbans/Excursions,,, You can rail the snot out of 'em, but they are still behemoths, and yes, you will go through a lot of tires doing so,,, :shrug:

I was told that they want to run their race craft at the extreme edge of its ability, what ever that race craft is...they choose a Goldwing!

[Hornblower]

If that's their 'style', I kinda wonder why they don't get a bike made for aggressive riding??? :shrug:


Being, more or less, a wannabe like one of those guys, I can tell you why I'm doing it. First of all, to me, the F6B is like an old man's sport bike. I can go fast, relatively speaking, and I can do it in comfort. And, like one of the "fast" guys told me, what's fun is pushing a bike to 80% of it's limit. Obviously, one can buy a real sport bike but then, to push it to 80%, you're talking about speeds I really don't want to go...been there, done that. Apparently, pushing a bike is not fun for you, Scotrod, but many of us ride two wheels for this reason. I hate to think what I'd have to spend to get a car that performs like my F6B. Anyway, to answer your original question, I did get a bike made for aggressive riding and so did the other "fast" guys!

[dickiedeals]

Being, more or less, a wannabe like one of those guys, I can tell you why I'm doing it. First of all, to me, the F6B is like an old man's sport bike. I can go fast, relatively speaking, and I can do it in comfort. And, like one of the "fast" guys told me, what's fun is pushing a bike to 80% of it's limit. Obviously, one can buy a real sport bike but then, to push it to 80%, you're talking about speeds I really don't want to go...been there, done that. Apparently, pushing a bike is not fun for you, Scotrod, but many of us ride two wheels for this reason. I hate to think what I'd have to spend to get a car that performs like my F6B. Anyway, to answer your original question, I did get a bike made for aggressive riding and so did the other "fast" guys!

Dickie agrees with Hornblower 100%. Love this bike on the Twisties..........................Dickie

[Scotrod]

What fun is pushing a bike to only 80% of it's limit? Well, as they say, crashing sucks, and old folks don't heal up as good as youngsters do,,, :shrug:

Depends a lot on your background as well,,,,,,,

I won't go into details, but I spent a couple decades with no respect for my own safety or the safety of those around me. Had my fun, still alive to talk about it.

After all that, it takes 'quite a bit' to get this old fart truly excited,,,

Maybe others want to test their skills by 'pushing their envelope', but eventually, you will meet either your own personal (or your equipment's) limit, and then,,, :stretcher:

[bobbyf6b]

So I rode to work today with the proper tire pressure and I have to say, the tire handles much better. Even a bike tire would handle bad with 10 less psi. It was windy so I need more time to evaluate the handling in the highway. One thing I have noticed is that it sits up more straight on the kickstand . Gotta be more careful where I park. Hopefully it will be all that I hoped for, but if not at least I tried it.

I think of it as the difference between skiing and snowboarding. (I've done both) Each will get you down the mountain fast but skis are narrow and turn quick and snowboards are wide and take a little more effort and finesse.

[flyboy]

Remember,,,,,,,,,, Ya gotta find that 'Sweet Spot'!!! Once the tire gets 'broke in', you might have to add a couple lbs,,, Bump it up for the twisties, back it down some for the super slab,,, :icon_mrgreen:

Put about 480 miles on the new 888 / 709 today. (No 'sweet spot' required!) :icon_biggrin:

Handling??? '100% Seamless',,, from 1/2 a degree lean to shootin sparks,,, Very light and 'flickable'. No boat-rowing the bars, no under steer, just a great bike acting like it's manufacturer intended it to.

Perhaps the only test will be to see how long the 888 lasts. Still hard to beat the Stones for the 'bang for the buck'.

I don't understand it either Scotrod, I run CTs on my cars and MTs on my motorcycles and skids on my helos just like the manufacturer intended. I figure they know more than I do about the product they made. Each to his own I guess!

[bobbyf6b]

Here's what I think after a week on a CT. I don't think it's for me. I will experiment with it more in the future but for now I'm back to my MT.

At first it felt a little "square", I expected that. It didn't take long to get used to that feeling but it took more effort to throw the bike around. Instead of the bike feeling half it's size, it felt twice it's size. I had the psi at 42 which is the same as the MT and it rode very smooth. Turning in curves or around corners was no problem, in fact I noticed more clearance for my left foot when shifting in a left turn.

Most of what I didn't like was when riding straight or changing lanes. The tire would grab the grooves in the road and I could feel any imperfection. If the road banked left it would try to take me left and if the road banked right it would pull me right. In a construction zone it threw me all over the place. And it doesn't like going over speed bumps at a 45 degree angle. That was like being rocked in a boat.

The worst part for me was at high speed. I like to ride fast and hard sometimes and I need a machine that will respond with me. Ever since the day I got this bike I felt like it was an extension of my body. It seems to know exactly what I want to do and where I want to go. The CT screwed that up, and at high speed my bike started to wobble. A couple times I thought I might lose control. I was thinking it might be the Ride-On I added to the tire but it didn't go away. I just rode home tonight and it freaked me out again. I was going around a curve and the bike started wobbling and that was enough for me to switch back when I got home. This machine is so perfect, why am I screwing it up? Who the hell knows why we do the crazy things we do. I had to try it for myself. I think if someone is an experienced rider they can handle it. I know I can, but when I want to push the bike I want it to be there for me.

Please don't say, "I told you so". I had to learn on my own. I'm not against anyone using a CT. If it works for you then great! I think after my MT wears out I will give it another try with more psi, but I'm not sure if it will be for me.

Pros:
More tread life
Great traction
Smooth ride
More turning clearance
Bike balances better when coming to a stop

Cons:
Turns take more effort
Tire follows every imperfection in the road
High speed wobbles (In my experience)
Heavier tire takes more power to turn
Bike less stable on kickstand

9340

[bob109]

Bobbyf6b:

Thanks for sharing your personal experience with a CT. Your observations about the tires handling characteristics on irregular road surfaces i.e. construction zones is dead on. As someone new to a CT it's a bit unnerving when one first encounters the tires reactions to road anomalies. I, like you, encountered handling variations when I first started Dark Siding. With just shy of 100K miles on CT I find their handling as "normal". I anticipate rough roads, construction zones and the like. The handling IMHO is a excellent trade off for the benefits the CT provides.

Regardless of what you have on the rear, ride safe:039:

[srt8-in-largo]

Good feedback Bobby; I appreciate you sharing those thoughts.

I've been toying with trying it too for long trips and it sounds like, if I do, I should mount the CT well before a trip just to get use to it.

[bobbyf6b]

I'm guessing maybe the run flat would be more stable but I'm not sure and I'm not buying another tire to try it. Just a theory.

[Hornblower]

I'm guessing maybe the run flat would be more stable but I'm not sure and I'm not buying another tire to try it. Just a theory.

A guess indeed...for comparison, I am mounting a non-run flat (Falken 612) to compare to my run flat (Kumho Ecsta SPT). Of course, I'm not sure how scientific that comparison will be since they are two different brands of tire. If it performs any better than my Kumho, I will be ecstatic. As a starting point, I will be running about 10 more psi in this new tire.

[SoCal Rich]

Bobby, did you ever report back on your mileage comparison of OEM versus Dunlop rear tire? I can't find it, and it would be very helpful as I am about to buy. Thanks.