Gun fire and death in Canada

[Steve 0080]

http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cfnews13/news/article.html/content/news/articles/cfn/2014/10/22/canadian_soldier_sho.html

[F6B1911]

Canada provides justice for criminal activity, that guy isn't getting off on any technicality for this event.
Now, if this happened in Detroit, it would be another story.

[cosborn]

So sad to here, our thoughts are with every Canadian at this time. We are not missing out in Au either, couple of weeks ago a young feller who the cops had been watching and trying, with the family to help were stabbed when he requested a meeting with them, he was killed of course, I feel sad for the family.

Chris

[Dfinkelsteinmd]

So sad to here, our thoughts are with every Canadian at this time. We are not missing out in Au either, couple of weeks ago a young feller who the cops had been watching and trying, with the family to help were stabbed when he requested a meeting with them, he was killed of course, I feel sad for the family.

Chris

It is sad to hear of servicemen and women who die for us, whether it is in Iraq, Afganistan, Somalia or at home, but we must remain vigilant and remember that in America we are protected by the 2nd amendment. Make sure you vote next month to maintain your right to be armed and safe. Our brothers and sisters in Canada and Australia do not enjoy this right and so they can expect more violence to be directed at defenseless citizens by mongrel jihadis and wannabe criminals. Arm yourself before someone takes away your right (or your life) because they will not be deterred by gun control laws.

[Darren]

It is sad to hear of servicemen and women who die for us, whether it is in Iraq, Afganistan, Somalia or at home, but we must remain vigilant and remember that in America we are protected by the 2nd amendment. Make sure you vote next month to maintain your right to be armed and safe. Our brothers and sisters in Canada and Australia do not enjoy this right and so they can expect more violence to be directed at defenseless citizens by mongrel jihadis and wannabe criminals. Arm yourself before someone takes away your right (or your life) because they will not be deterred by gun control laws.

It is sad, very sad. More guns are not the solution, that stance has not worked in America and it won't work anywhere else, just makes it easier to obtain better weapons. Better intelligence and a cohesive strategy between all of the relevant agencies is required.

[SmallPasture]

It is sad, very sad. More guns are not the solution, that stance has not worked in America and it won't work anywhere else, just makes it easier to obtain better weapons. Better intelligence and a cohesive strategy between all of the relevant agencies is required.

It's sad no matter where it happens. Prayers out to the soldiers family and Canada as a whole.

But I gotta ask. Wasn't a it good guy w/ a gun that kept this bad guy w/ a gun from killing how many more? I realize he was a Sargent of Arms thus he was armed but, had he not been there after the terrorist walked some 200 yards after killing the solider how many more lives would he have taken? :shrug:

[Darren]

It's sad no matter where it happens. Prayers out to the soldiers family and Canada as a whole.

But I gotta ask. Wasn't a it good guy w/ a gun that kept this bad guy w/ a gun from killing how many more? I realize he was a Sargent of Arms thus he was armed but, had he not been there after the terrorist walked some 200 yards after killing the solider how many more lives would he have taken? :shrug:

I'm not against all weapons, just against all weapons being freely available to the untrained. Countries with the strictest gun control have lower gun related incidents and having been privileged to have traveled extensively and also lived in countries where guns are restricted and where guns are freely available, I have always felt much safer in the restricted countries.

[MidKnight]

Yet another muslim carrying out orders from his Caliphate.

In 1952
President Truman
Established one day a year as a
"National Day of Prayer."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In 1988
President Reagan
Designated the
First Thursday in May of each year as
The National Day of Prayer.
-----------------------------------------------
In June 2007
(then)
Presidential Candidate Barack Obama
Declared that the USA
"Was no longer a
Christian nation."
--------------------------------------------------------------
In 2009
President Obama
Canceled the
21st annual National Day
Of Prayer ceremony
at the White
House under the ruse
Of "not wanting to offend anyone"
---------------------------------------------------------------------
BUT... On September 25, 2009
From 4 AM until 7 PM, A National Day of Prayer
FOR THE MUSLIM RELIGION Was Held on Capitol Hill,
Beside the White House.
There were over 50,000 Muslims In D.C. That day.

HE PRAYS WITH THE MUSLIMS!
I guess it Doesn't matter If "Christians"
Are offended by this event - We obviously
Don 't count as "anyone" Anymore.

Now he is encouraging schools to teach the
qua-ran for extra credit in schools, while they cannot
even talk about the bible, God or salute the American Flag.
The direction this country is headed
Should strike fear in the heart of every Christian,
Especially knowing that the Muslim religion
believes that if Christians cannot be Converted,
they should be annihilated.

[Phantom]

I'm not against all weapons, just against all weapons being freely available to the untrained. Countries with the strictest gun control have lower gun related incidents and having been privileged to have traveled extensively and also lived in countries where guns are restricted and where guns are freely available, I have always felt much safer in the restricted countries.

I'll buy you a one way ticket to our country. You have 2 cities to select from, the 2 most strict gun control law cities are Chicago or Washington DC. You must live within the "safest" neighborhoods where murder is the game that the whole street plays.

I also have and continue to travel all around the world. I can tell you that CRIMINALS have access to any weapon they want. Cash talks and bullshit walks .

When you do move to one of the above cities, allow me to place a sign on your front yard that says " No guns inside this home"

[Darren]

I'll buy you a one way ticket to our country. You have 2 cities to select from, the 2 most strict gun control law cities are Chicago or Washington DC. You must live within the "safest" neighborhoods where murder is the game that the whole street plays.

I also have and continue to travel all around the world. I can tell you that CRIMINALS have access to any weapon they want. Cash talks and bullshit walks .

When you do move to one of the above cities, allow me to place a sign on your front yard that says " No guns inside this home"

The country stats for gun violence speak for themselves do the research before you pull the bullshit card with only an opinion to back you up.

[jkelley]

The country stats for gun violence speak for themselves do the research before you pull the bullshit card with only an opinion to back you up.

:jerkit: I believe that's what you did?

Phantom is correct, in jurisdictions where guns are commonplace and some actually legislated crime and gun violence is low, Chicago Philly, and DC where controls are the strictest it's the other way around. Personally, I believe I will continue to carry and be well armed.

[Phantom]

I also have and continue to travel all around the world. I can tell you that CRIMINALS have access to any weapon they want. Cash talks and bullshit walks .


The country stats for gun violence speak for themselves do the research before you pull the bullshit card with only an opinion to back you up.

Don't take my comments out of context to validate your beliefs.

My bullshit comment was in reference to the FACT that criminals can buy any firearm. It was not based on a opinion. The paragraph was self explanatory.

The NUMBERS or facts on gun violence for the cities that i mentioned above are in the top 5 and that is a fact, they also have some of the most strict gun laws on the books and that is a FACT.

Obviously you are not wanting to accept my offer for a one way ticket. I am not surprised.

[Phantom]

Using Darren's argument, I propose a complete BAN on Canadian Whiskey, Wine and Beer. This should reduce the amount of drunk driving deaths in the U.S.

Prohibition didn't work, heck Joseph Kennedy made millions on illegally imported scotch.

[FF-Ed]

"for those who have to fight for it,
Life will have a flavor the protected will never know"

after 10 years in the US ARMY, I live by the motto "Lock & Load"

[bob109]

I'm not against all weapons, just against all weapons being freely available to the untrained. Countries with the strictest gun control have lower gun related incidents and having been privileged to have traveled extensively and also lived in countries where guns are restricted and where guns are freely available, I have always felt much safer in the restricted countries.

The unarmed populaces of Iraq and the likes are nothing more than a "flock of lambs" being slaughtered by the ISIS:icon_doh:. Those who rule by the fear of beheading and such have complete control over the unarmed citizenry. Bet things would be much different if all the folks were armed:icon_wink:

[Elroy]

The country stats for gun violence speak for themselves do the research before you pull the bullshit card with only an opinion to back you up.


I'm not against all weapons, just against all weapons being freely available to the untrained.

You realize that those gun violence 'stats' include all manner of gun-related deaths? That includes but is not limited to, Police shootings (but lets not get derailed on that topic), the senior citizen who shoots an armed intruder in the middle of the night, gang-on-gang violence, an irresponsible adult leaving his firearms out for a child to play with....If it were even possible to break that one lump stat of gun violence out into these categories you might surprised. Data and stats are what you make of them. The situations where a bullet or presence of a firearm stops a crime are not popular with media and you don't hear about them.

And I am trained with my firearms. Plural. A first time gun buyer is untrained until he decides that that piece of hardware could save his life, and decides to learn to use it effectively. A victim of a violent crime stands a better chance of survival if they have a firearm, trained or not! The criminal is going to have a weapon of some sorts one way or another. Again, I'm confident with my weapon. Let the untrained thug, whose only training is holding his handgun sideways to take a selfie, try and invade my home or hurt my family. I'll be damned if any liberal or government legislation is going to take away my advantage.

Now that I've ranted, I'll leave it to Phantom and jkelley who seemed to be representing pretty well. :icon_biggrin:

[Elroy]

On a side note, this forum seems to have gotten awfully political of late....I like it. :icon_biggrin: But I blame Steve. :yes:

[jkelley]

Well said Elroy.

There are those that believe as I do gun control means being able to hit your intended target, Then there are those that believe control is disarming the general population and all will be well.
Fact is as Phantom said cash talks, and the bad guy can always get armed in one way or another.
I firmly believe if you are going to own a firearm of any kind and count on it for the protection of you and yours there is a big responsibility that comes along with it, and you should educate yourself in the handling, storage, and maintenance of it. We have a couple of ranges close by that have certified instructors and offer real life classes on street situations, recognizing threats and how to handle those. They are also a lot of fun!!

[jaygollner]

Don't take my comments out of context to validate your beliefs.

My bullshit comment was in reference to the FACT that criminals can buy any firearm. It was not based on a opinion. The paragraph was self explanatory.

The NUMBERS or facts on gun violence for the cities that i mentioned above are in the top 5 and that is a fact, they also have some of the most strict gun laws on the books and that is a FACT.

Obviously you are not wanting to accept my offer for a one way ticket. I am not surprised.

Of course the Chicago gangs can buy any gun they want, they buy most of them here in Indiana about 5 miles from my house at the Lake County fairgrounds gun show. Want a fifty cal anti tank rifle? There was one there the last time I went. Want black powder by the kilo no problem. I don't have a problem with gun sales but it would nice if all gun buyers had to go through a background check before buying, at our local gun show that is not always the case.

[Phantom]

I don't have a problem with gun sales but it would nice if all gun buyers had to go through a background check before buying, at our local gun show that is not always the case.

WHAT difference does a BACKGROUND check make? Criminals, thugs and druggies PURCHASE guns illegally with CASH, CASH, CASH, CASH, you guys just don't get it. :banghead:

Background checks are for law abiding citizens, criminals just laugh at the laws, pay a premium for a stolen or ill-gotten fire arm and then kill at will with NO RESPECT FOR A LIFE ... what makes you think they are going to respect a stupid law or fulfill a background check? That there is a funny :crackup::banghead:

[Retired Army]

All violence originates in the brain so how bout mind control instead of gun control? Look how much success was had with a simple lobotomy. :banghead:

[53driver]

...should be a convenience store chain - not a bureaucracy.
My $0.02.

Steve

[jaygollner]

WHAT difference does a BACKGROUND check make? Criminals, thugs and druggies PURCHASE guns illegally with CASH, CASH, CASH, CASH, you guys just don't get it. :banghead:

Background checks are for law abiding citizens, criminals just laugh at the laws, pay a premium for a stolen or ill-gotten fire arm and then kill at will with NO RESPECT FOR A LIFE ... what makes you think they are going to respect a stupid law or fulfill a background check? That there is a funny :crackup::banghead:

So it sounds as if you are the type of guy that thinks screw it lets just sell ak47's at the local mini mart. Am I missing something?

[Darren]

Don't take my comments out of context to validate your beliefs.

My bullshit comment was in reference to the FACT that criminals can buy any firearm. It was not based on a opinion. The paragraph was self explanatory.

The NUMBERS or facts on gun violence for the cities that i mentioned above are in the top 5 and that is a fact, they also have some of the most strict gun laws on the books and that is a FACT.

Obviously you are not wanting to accept my offer for a one way ticket. I am not surprised.

Controls must be country wide not state wide.

Your city comments are irrelevant if you can just leave the city and buy a gun and by pass any restrictions. If I wanted to I'd live in any city, i would. I've lived in many cities from London in the UK to Joberg in SA. You simply cannot argue that countries with gun control are safer than countries without.

[Steve 0080]

NO !!! All he is saying is that criminals are criminals because they violate the law...up to and to include any gun laws that may be in the way of purchasing any gun(s).

Actually a pretty easy concept to grasp.... Good will do good, Bad will do bad....simple

[Steve 0080]

Controls must be country wide not state wide.

Your city comments are irrelevant if you can just leave the city and buy a gun and by pass any restrictions. If I wanted to I'd live in any city, i would. I've lived in many cities from London in the UK to Joberg in SA. You simply cannot argue that countries with gun control are safer than countries without.

You also can not argue that all of those folks are sheep to a slaughter....just sayin

[Darren]

You also can not argue that all of those folks are sheep to a slaughter....just sayin

if there are any left after you've killed each other

[jaygollner]

The unarmed populaces of Iraq and the likes are nothing more than a "flock of lambs" being slaughtered by the ISIS:icon_doh:. Those who rule by the fear of beheading and such have complete control over the unarmed citizenry. Bet things would be much different if all the folks were armed:icon_wink:

Iraq ranks number 8 in in the world for guns per capita so I am not sure why you think they are all a bunch of pu**ies. In fact didn't they manage to kill a whole bunch of American GI'S when they were in the mood to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

[opas ride]

Man has been killing man since Cain and Able without any gun laws or whatever law is available..If someone wants to kill others, rocks, clubs, knives, swords, slingshots, etc.etc.etc..become weapons of choice...Nothing is going to change among man-kind and his actions until the World comes to an end...Which will eventually happen!!!!...Guns laws, gun control, whatever control...DOES NOT WORK!!!

[Phantom]

So it sounds as if you are the type of guy that thinks screw it lets just sell ak47's at the local mini mart. Am I missing something?

Never implied such a ridiculous statement, you missed my point


NO !!! All he is saying is that criminals are criminals because they violate the law...up to and to include any gun laws that may be in the way of purchasing any gun(s).

Actually a pretty easy concept to grasp.... Good will do good, Bad will do bad....simple

BINGO !!!! :winnergold1:


if there are any left after you've killed each other



You're implying that we're all criminals who kill. 99.9% of Gun owners are responsible citizens.
There is nothing wrong with being prepared to defend yourself, your family or anyone that is being victimized by a gun wielding thug.

I prefer to have a firearm and NOT need it ..... instead of NEEDING a firearm and not having one.
I believe if everyone had a gun, criminals would think twice before doing something stupid that may ultimately be their last time doing something stupid.

Even though here in Florida, Helmets are not required .... I wear my Helmet and leather jacket 99.9% of the time .... again, I rather wear my gear (and it gets hot) and not need it instead of needing it as I go down and not wearing it. It's PREVENTATIVE or reducing the amount of risk or damage caused on to you. It's a TOOL, use it wisely.

For those criminals that become lost and try to break into my home, I let them know exactly where they are at .... :biggthumpup:

[Phantom]

I've lived in many cities from London in the UK to Joberg in SA. You simply cannot argue that countries with gun control are safer than countries without.

Years ago my brother and I were nearly killed by 3 shady characters in PARIS France (a so-called SAFE gun control city). It was the first time that I experienced adrenaline as I defended myself at 3:00am in a foreign land where I thought it was safe to visit. It was a very violent episode and 2 of the French thugs ended up with permanent life altering injuries. I did what I had to do to keep myself and brother alive, there are NO RULES when you are minding your own business and all of a sudden you are unexpectedly attacked.

That changed my outlook on life, I thought that I was going to die that night.
I now protect myself from anyone that doesn't value my life as much as I value it.

This is the internet, we're always going to have different views of opinion. Mine are based on my personal experiences.

I respect your choice to NOT carry, but please don't take the choice TO carry away from me.
I'll not think twice to protect a fellow citizen if necessary.

[bob109]

Iraq ranks number 8 in in the world for guns per capita so I am not sure why you think they are all a bunch of pu**ies. In fact didn't they manage to kill a whole bunch of American GI'S when they were in the mood to?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

I stand by my statement! In comparison to the U.S.A. the Iraq citizenry is out gunned by ISIS. RPG and heavy truck mounted machine guns in the hands of trained terrorists outweigh the firepower of the average Iraqi household. I'm not questioning that American GI's were hurt or killed by Iraqi citizens. We lost many of our own to "fratricide". Unfortunately a very sad product/result of war:icon_frown:

[jaygollner]

[QUOTE=Phantom;51662]Never implied such a ridiculous statement, you missed my point


I got to call BULL SHIT on that last statement, you said...


Quote Originally Posted by Phantom View Post

WHAT difference does a BACKGROUND check make? Criminals, thugs and druggies PURCHASE guns illegally with CASH, CASH, CASH, CASH, you guys just don't get it.

Background checks are for law abiding citizens, criminals just laugh at the laws, pay a premium for a stolen or ill-gotten fire arm and then kill at will with NO RESPECT FOR A LIFE ... what makes you think they are going to respect a stupid law or fulfill a background check? That there is a funny

[shooter]

What you don't get Jaygo is that if you outlaw guns , only the outlaws will have guns. Guns have been banned in London for years yet they have one of the highest rates of gun violence of any city in the world. I think it should be a law that every law abiding competent citizen shall own and be proficient with a handgun. Jeff Cooper always said that an armed society is a polite society. For over 30 years I have carried on a daily basis. Basically if I have my pants on there is a 45 somewhere on me. I'm not bragging. I'm not proud of it. No one knows it except my family and a small circle of my closest friends. Believe me the circle is small. I don't talk about it and I have only had to take it out once. I refuse to be a victim and I will protect my loved ones. It's not for offense it's for defense. And I practice , I do drills , I still compete occasionally. I'm no expert , I have worked at being proficient with a handgun for over 40 years. When I was a kid I used to squirrel hunt with a handgun. Nowadays I keep the Groundhogs thinned out with various 45's. I hit what I aim at. All I can say is get you a gun and practice. It might come in handy one day. The groundhog population is spreading.

[Ray H]

I remember some verbiage that sort of sums it up for me... "If you ever need a gun and don't have one, there's a good chance you'll never need one again."

[Darren]

What you don't get Jaygo is that if you outlaw guns , only the outlaws will have guns. Guns have been banned in London for years yet they have one of the highest rates of gun violence of any city in the world. .

This is bullshit. Please show where you get this from. London ranks well below every city in America, as does every city in Europe. I was a police officer in the metropolitan police in the 80's, during the height of the mainland bombing campaign of the IRA. Us beat bobbies were armed only with cuffs and and a stick, no body armor and no guns or pepper spray. We had access to armed specialist units (SO 19) who were highly trained. I never felt that I needed to be armed and dealt with any number of potentially violent and violent situations, instead I relied on my training and my intelligence. In fact the only time I've ever wished for a gun was an incident in Nigeria and when it was over I was glad i didn't have one because if I'd had one I would have been tempted to use it and would have been killed.

I'm not arguing for the banning of guns in the states, I understand that part of the 2nd, if you feel you need one for personal protection why not, but I fail to see how you can use that excuse to then justify unregulated access to fully/semi automatic rifles. I know someone is going to say it's in case the government goes rogue, but that means you need access to tanks and planes and nukes.

[jkelley]

NO unregulated access for fully automatic, you have to have a class 3 license and that's not real easy.
Semi automatic, yes those are common I have several hunting rifles that are semi.
However, again with cash you can own anything you want.
There is no law or gun control policy you can put in place that will address or control a criminal or nut job.
However, on the other side of the coin if every one was qualified and carried, those criminals and nut jobs wouldn't get very far!
We have become a PC society where the police are even ridiculed and harassed for shooting an attacking suspect, thus making them ineffective.

Further. On soap box now. No matter the subject, as in the case of this one being debated on an open forum I have seen several lately that touch on the edges of politics and become heated and on the verge of personal attacks. while we are all passionate about some subject matters remember there aint nuttin personal! Try not to get butt hurt if you express your opinion and get your ass handed to you on a platter. Enjoy the ride and reading the posts when you cant. I not a mod, just my opinion. but some folks just take shit way too hard.

[Elroy]

This is bullshit. Please show where you get this from. I'm not arguing for the banning of guns in the states, I understand that part of the 2nd, if you feel you need one for personal protection why not, but I fail to see how you can use that excuse to then justify unregulated access to fully/semi automatic rifles. I know someone is going to say it's in case the government goes rogue, but that means you need access to tanks and planes and nukes.

This stinks of :bsII: I would like for YOU to show where you get the information from that we have unregulated access to fully automatic rifles. I could not just run out and purchase one. As jkelley said, this requires a class III permit and requires all sorts of hoops to jump through...not an easy process....people who believe what you have said are the same who call any rifle that's 'black and scary' a, wait for it.....ASSAULT RIFLE! :yikes:

[Elroy]

I'm sure some of you have seen this. Loved this the first time I read it:

Senator Dianne Feinstein,

I will not register my weapons should this bill be passed, as I do not believe it is the government's right to know what I own. Nor do I think it prudent to tell you what I own so that it may be taken from me by a group of people who enjoy armed protection yet decry me having the same a crime. You ma'am have overstepped a line that is not your domain. I am a Marine Corps Veteran of 8 years, and I will not have some woman who proclaims the evil of an inanimate object, yet carries one, tell me I may not have one.

I am not your subject. I am the man who keeps you free. I am not your servant. I am the person whom you serve. I am not your peasant. I am the flesh and blood of America. I am the man who fought for my country. I am the man who learned. I am an American. You will not tell me that I must register my semi-automatic AR-15 because of the actions of some evil man.

I will not be disarmed to suit the fear that has been established by the media and your misinformation campaign against the American public.

We, the people, deserve better than you.

Respectfully Submitted,
Joshua Boston
Cpl, United States Marine Corps
2004-2012

[SmallPasture]

“The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” Eighteenth-century criminologist Cesare Beccaria:

[jkelley]

Hard to argue with that at all!

Another of my concerns with the way this PC group of asshats we have running this country. WHEN they decide to try and disarm the general population there will be hell to pay. Most of my guns are registered, since my local laws requires a permit before buying be issued by your counties Sheriff dept. the scary part is along with those records they have a way to track those weapons, and thus an avenue to search them out.
Further I am a concealed carry permit holder and those are more records that could be used. Being a law abiding citizen may in fact bite me in the ass?:jerkit:

[Phantom]

Further. On soap box now. No matter the subject, as in the case of this one being debated on an open forum I have seen several lately that touch on the edges of politics and become heated and on the verge of personal attacks. while we are all passionate about some subject matters remember there aint nuttin personal! Try not to get butt hurt if you express your opinion and get your ass handed to you on a platter. Enjoy the ride and reading the posts when you cant. I not a mod, just my opinion. but some folks just take shit way too hard.

X 2

Please remember that we will not solve the worlds' problems on any FORUM
We all have had our own unique experiences through life. I live my life in the way that I think is best for myself and my country without shoving my beliefs down anyones throat or preventing someone else to live their life in a completely different way then mine. We all have choices and freedoms, having more Government regulations to reduce or remove my choices/freedoms is something that I have a hard time with.

Before you hit the send button as you reply to a post, just envision the person standing in front of you. There have been many subjects that I have wanted to respond but chose to bite my bottom lip and moved on. As I have said in the past ... I'm willing to listen to others, however there are times that we MUST agree to disagree and just walk away from the discussion table.

Finally, we are grown men.... if a discussion is not going your way, just ignore it and DON'T let the post effect your blood pressure. Life is too short.

Now, I'll leave you all to continue this discussion ..... I'm headed for the range :068:

[Deer Slayer]

'chill/pill':cheers:

[Steve 0080]

X 2

Please remember that we will not solve the worlds' problems on any FORUM
We all have had our own unique experiences through life. I live my life in the way that I think is best for myself and my country without shoving my beliefs down anyones throat or preventing someone else to live their life in a completely different way then mine. We all have choices and freedoms, having more Government regulations to reduce or remove my choices/freedoms is something that I have a hard time with.

Before you hit the send button as you reply to a post, just envision the person standing in front of you. There have been many subjects that I have wanted to respond but chose to bite my bottom lip and moved on. As I have said in the past ... I'm willing to listen to others, however there are times that we MUST agree to disagree and just walk away from the discussion table.

Finally, we are grown men.... if a discussion is not going your way, just ignore it and DON'T let the post effect your blood pressure. Life is too short.

Now, I'll leave you all to continue this discussion ..... I'm headed for the range :068:



I call these folks " key board warriors " becareful what you type...you may see the person at a rally on at another event and someone may want to cash the check.....

[jkelley]

I call these folks " key board warriors " becareful what you type...you may see the person at a rally on at another event and someone may want to cash the check.....

LOL, yup keyboard commandos, easy to be brave when you are sittin in your jammies, sippin tea, watchin Springer, behind your monitor.

[jaygollner]

What you don't get Jaygo is that if you outlaw guns , only the outlaws will have guns. Guns have been banned in London for years yet they have one of the highest rates of gun violence of any city in the world. I think it should be a law that every law abiding competent citizen shall own and be proficient with a handgun. Jeff Cooper always said that an armed society is a polite society. For over 30 years I have carried on a daily basis. Basically if I have my pants on there is a 45 somewhere on me. I'm not bragging. I'm not proud of it. No one knows it except my family and a small circle of my closest friends. Believe me the circle is small. I don't talk about it and I have only had to take it out once. I refuse to be a victim and I will protect my loved ones. It's not for offense it's for defense. And I practice , I do drills , I still compete occasionally. I'm no expert , I have worked at being proficient with a handgun for over 40 years. When I was a kid I used to squirrel hunt with a handgun. Nowadays I keep the Groundhogs thinned out with various 45's. I hit what I aim at. All I can say is get you a gun and practice. It might come in handy one day. The groundhog population is spreading.

Not sure where you are going with the jaygo thing, if it's supposed to be a slur it's more juvenile then anything else. As to your false claim about London I see that it was already addressed. Finally I have held a CCW permit in Indiana for over 35 years so don't mistake me for a shirking violet while you are boasting about being mr handgun.

[jaygollner]

NO unregulated access for fully automatic, you have to have a class 3 license and that's not real easy.
Semi automatic, yes those are common I have several hunting rifles that are semi.
However, again with cash you can own anything you want.
There is no law or gun control policy you can put in place that will address or control a criminal or nut job.
However, on the other side of the coin if every one was qualified and carried, those criminals and nut jobs wouldn't get very far!
We have become a PC society where the police are even ridiculed and harassed for shooting an attacking suspect, thus making them ineffective.

Further. On soap box now. No matter the subject, as in the case of this one being debated on an open forum I have seen several lately that touch on the edges of politics and become heated and on the verge of personal attacks. while we are all passionate about some subject matters remember there aint nuttin personal! Try not to get butt hurt if you express your opinion and get your ass handed to you on a platter. Enjoy the ride and reading the posts when you cant. I not a mod, just my opinion. but some folks just take shit way too hard.


Maybe you have not seen this product to me that essentially legally converts your standard AR15 into a fully automatic AR15. Hell even Cabellas is carrying them now.
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Slide-Fire-AR-Stock/1403492.uts
Slide Fire™ AR-15 Stock



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• Safe, legal and fun
• Works on most AR-15s
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Available: Right hand, Left hand.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_U6tORrODJE

[Steve 0080]

Time to put this one to :165fs373950:

[Darren]

Just thought I'd add this for those who are interested in the stats

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

[Elroy]

Just thought I'd add this for those who are interested in the stats

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

OK, I was going to let this sleeping dog lie, but after reading your link I need to respond to this. Taken directly from your link

"The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
• Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean

The full data is below - what can you do with it?"

For having the highest amount of gun ownership in the world by a large margin, a firearm murder rate of 2.97 people per 100,000 is pretty damn good! I don't pretend to know much about Puerto Rico, Africa, and Nevis' gun laws, but I imagine they are not that strict. You argue for stricter gun control and less guns, but if, as you say, more guns = more deaths, shouldn't the US top both categories?!? According to your source the US is 28th in the world for firearm deaths and we have 33 more guns per 100 people than any other nation!!! The fact is, our gun control in the US is sufficient, again 2.97 deaths for every 100,000 people and we have 270 MILLION firearms.

England only has 6.2 firearms per 100 people, and getting a handgun is difficult. Would their firearm deaths increase if it became easier to obtain a gun? Probably. But at a difference of only 2.9 more deaths in the US vs. the UK, I'd prefer to live in a country that recognizes MY OWN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to arm and protect myself and family.

Take a look at the countries ahead of the US in % of firearm homicides. Italy, Brazil, Switzerland (and the Swiss always seemed so peaceful). As I said in my earlier post, data and stats are what you make of them----as your website said "the full data is below - what can you do with it?"

I'm failing to see how this link has supported your position.....

[Elroy]

Not sure where you are going with the jaygo thing, if it's supposed to be a slur it's more juvenile then anything else....you are boasting about being mr handgun.

Pretty sure he was just shortening your screen name....perhaps you need to quit reading into stuff so much....

And you say he was boasting, I say he was passionate about his belief and training....

[SmallPasture]

OK, I was going to let this sleeping dog lie, but after reading your link I need to respond to this. Taken directly from your link

"The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
• Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean

The full data is below - what can you do with it?"

For having the highest amount of gun ownership in the world by a large margin, a firearm murder rate of 2.97 people per 100,000 is pretty damn good! I don't pretend to know much about Puerto Rico, Africa, and Nevis' gun laws, but I imagine they are not that strict. You argue for stricter gun control and less guns, but if, as you say, more guns = more deaths, shouldn't the US top both categories?!? According to your source the US is 28th in the world for firearm deaths and we have 33 more guns per 100 people than any other nation!!! The fact is, our gun control in the US is sufficient, again 2.97 deaths for every 100,000 people and we have 270 MILLION firearms.

England only has 6.2 firearms per 100 people, and getting a handgun is difficult. Would their firearm deaths increase if it became easier to obtain a gun? Probably. But at a difference of only 2.9 more deaths in the US vs. the UK, I'd prefer to live in a country that recognizes MY OWN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to arm and protect myself and family.

Take a look at the countries ahead of the US in % of firearm homicides. Italy, Brazil, Switzerland (and the Swiss always seemed so peaceful). As I said in my earlier post, data and stats are what you make of them----as your website said "the full data is below - what can you do with it?"

I'm failing to see how this link has supported your position.....

Thank you! :yes:

[jkelley]

Elroy closed this one up nicely, I am with Steve, put it to bed.

[Darren]

OK, I was going to let this sleeping dog lie, but after reading your link I need to respond to this. Taken directly from your link

"The key facts are:

• The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - an average of 88 per 100 people. That puts it first in the world for gun ownership - and even the number two country, Yemen, has significantly fewer - 54.8 per 100 people
• But the US does not have the worst firearm murder rate - that prize belongs to Honduras, El Salvador and Jamaica. In fact, the US is number 28, with a rate of 2.97 per 100,000 people
• Puerto Rico tops the world's table for firearms murders as a percentage of all homicides - 94.8%. It's followed by Sierra Leone in Africa and Saint Kitts and Nevis in the Caribbean

The full data is below - what can you do with it?"

For having the highest amount of gun ownership in the world by a large margin, a firearm murder rate of 2.97 people per 100,000 is pretty damn good! I don't pretend to know much about Puerto Rico, Africa, and Nevis' gun laws, but I imagine they are not that strict. You argue for stricter gun control and less guns, but if, as you say, more guns = more deaths, shouldn't the US top both categories?!? According to your source the US is 28th in the world for firearm deaths and we have 33 more guns per 100 people than any other nation!!! The fact is, our gun control in the US is sufficient, again 2.97 deaths for every 100,000 people and we have 270 MILLION firearms.

England only has 6.2 firearms per 100 people, and getting a handgun is difficult. Would their firearm deaths increase if it became easier to obtain a gun? Probably. But at a difference of only 2.9 more deaths in the US vs. the UK, I'd prefer to live in a country that recognizes MY OWN INDIVIDUAL RIGHT to arm and protect myself and family.

Take a look at the countries ahead of the US in % of firearm homicides. Italy, Brazil, Switzerland (and the Swiss always seemed so peaceful). As I said in my earlier post, data and stats are what you make of them----as your website said "the full data is below - what can you do with it?"

I'm failing to see how this link has supported your position.....

I was just showing the data, I made no comments as to whether they proved or disproved my position, just thought people would be interested in the raw data. Make of it what you will.

[red dog]

ill keep my guns.......thank you.........