12 murders because of a PENCIL, simply senseless

[Phantom]

:067:

I ask why?

I don't understand how a religion that claims to be "Peace Loving" would want to kill so many.
Why do they instill so much hatred into the minds of their followers?

Artists from around the world ..........

http://twistedsifter.com/2015/01/artists-respond-to-charlie-hebdo-attack-with-art/

[Ridlikhel]

Not all religions are the same. If worries me sometimes, the direction in which we are headed.

[cosborn]

I think that we should remind ourselves that Islamic religion has been hijacked by fundamentalists, yep the same ones that Christians had back in the Crusades. The real losers here are the peaceful Muslims who are paying the price.

We in Australia are feeling the threat but we are generally trying to embrace our Muslim population rather than condemning the whole religion.

Regards and best to all religions

Chris

[Limoles]

... and Gods are watching , unable to prevent evil from destruction among us ...

[AdTaleur]

I'm French and today I'm sad
But I'm CHARLIE

[choptop]

As someone who went to church every morning before church and felt the wrath of the nuns and fortunately not the attention of a father, I now see the symbol Jesus being systematically removed from our society while we seem to be embracing islam. Fear and intimidation are radical islams weapons and they have a long range plan to take over the world. They have a strong presence in many countries and if we don't watch ourselves we will find ourselves in the same predicament as Europe. Were is the outcry and condemnation that I wait to her from the muslim community as a whole. I won't be holding my breath. Just my opinion, you are welcome to yours.

[Scotrod]

Their 'Prophet' wasn't a 100%, 24/7, 'warm/fuzzy' kind of guy,,,

And their book of their 'Prophet' is held in such high regard that to challenge anything that is written about their 'Prophet' is in direct conflict with their faith,,, (The same 'Blasphemy' that folks we're sent to the gallows over back in the Medieval/Crusade era.)

As with any Religion, interpretation and application is key,,, Better off to stand back, soak it all in, and look at 'the big picture/overall direction' than to bury your head so far up in it you can't see around you,,,

[Scotrod]

I'm French and today I'm sad
But I'm CHARLIE

Many of us share your feelings. It's very big news here,,, Definitely not going un-noticed, and people here are quite upset.

[Phantom]

Many of us share your feelings.

X2 !!!!

Several good points made on the above posts.

Even though France and the US have had our differences in the past decades, we cannot forget that FRANCE was our FIRST ally when we sought freedom from England.

We stand united, we feel your pain. We are all Charlie.

grouphug

[Deer Slayer]

X2 !!!!

Several good points made on the above posts.

Even though France and the US have had our differences in the past decades, we cannot forget that FRANCE was our FIRST ally when we sought freedom from England.

We stand united, we feel your pain. We are all Charlie.

grouphug

Well said P.:cheers:

[Spirit Rider]

I was surprised to find a comment on this matter here. That proves once again that this community is great, let's keep it this way...
As a born french, asia lover, new zealand citizen, now living in canada I thought I'd share a bit. shortly though...

We hear every day about massacre around the world, these massacres only resonates when you feel concerned... I grew up in the Charlie Hebdo generation with their sense of humor, disrespect but most importantly their freedom of expression... I feel so sad that guys like Wolinsky Cabus end their lives like this...

It's about time for the highest ranking officials of Islam to send a clear message to everyone which should be relayed in any mosque, Islam isn't terrorism! otherwise soon ... any jobless kid unhappy with his life, having no future or passion whatsoever will turn to this new found way of life: anger. That is so easy to promote by Djihad's recruiters... if the message isn't relayed strongly, soon the confusion will increase and people will soon think that terrorism=islam=arabic ...

I understand how easy it can be to become upset with any government... terrorism doesn't make history ! otherwise native indians should kill all americans and canadians, mexicans should kill spanishs...

What courage does it take to dress with a bullet proof jacket and kill unarmed people... ?? So to all potential Djiadists: be a man, be courageous, strong, refuse violence, study and act to make a difference in other people's life. Follow the exemple of Madiba and Gandhi, forgive and bring people together instead of using your anger to solve your directionless pathetic lives.

Not sure this is the place to express ideas here ... :) but for once... I did.
Take care buddies riders! Can't wait for spring, I miss the sound of my bike....

[Limoles]

This is not about radical Islam only . The all world is messed up and global anger is growing . We live in reality , where children are killing own parents ( and vice versa ) , spouses mis-distrust turns love into mutual hate followed by dramatic events , disrespect for authorities is a norm , abuse of minorities , or ethnic cleansing is a daily fact , unjust wars destroys all cultures , political hypocrisy became "the law" , power of few serves them for the mega profit only and inequality of wealth distribution ( usually national treasuries ) diminish morality for the rest . Values of ethics disappear forever. I'm always trying to find the cause of all of it and ask the question : "Who Start the Fire" and "Are We really so Human" ( as we claim for Superiority Purpose ) ... and what is that anyway ?

[valkmc]

Brainwashing....it is seen through out history. The crusades, Hitler, etc. Once the powers to be get a large segment of the population to buy into their BS bad things can happen.

[Darren]

It is truly a sad event.

Religious freedom should only be allowed where it does not forcibly impact the freedom of others.

[bigbird]

Another view, not necessarily mine:

The biggest prank on humanity is religion, caused by alien visitation.
If you can't explain something, it's god's doing.

Do I believe it?
t's not out of the realm of possibility.

[sshake1905]

some very sensitive posts today on this forum remind me how fortunate we are to live in democratic nations where our personal views and opinions are voiced without the fear of negative results or threats....

Spirit Riders mention of the 90% + of the 1.7 billion Muslims in this world who are slowly becoming the possible victims of the lunatic fringe of their own religion....

those 1.6 million Muslims, who want to live in a modern world of compromise and compassion....instead of a world of confrontation and chaos....must gather together to shun and control the threat of radical terrorists within their own ranks....it seems the only way to turn this tide of terror.....

If Muslims step up to lead this fight against there own, it will be justified....If Christians, Jews and other religions lead the fight, as they as now, things will continue to get worse....

sure...we must defend ourselves, do all we can to prevent this terror, respond correctly and quickly to acts of terror and murder....but...

this threat of terror will exist until the day that the majority of Muslims decide to act and lead..

We must all remember not to stereotype the mass of any group of humans because for the actions of its lunatic fringes on the left or the right

my opinion only...with hopes it offends no one...

[taxfree4]

There are people who use a religion as a vehicle to carry out horrific acts against their fellow man. They are not Muslims in spirit, only in their warped minds. 1.7 billion with a "b" Muslims and maybe .001 percent are radicalized to the point of committing these horrific crimes, maybe. These animals rape, starve, torture and murder their own kind under the guise of purification in the twisted way they interpret the scriptures.The other 1,698,300,0000 go about their lives like the rest of us. Let's not hold a whole religion responsible for a microscopic few. France decided to allow Muslim communities to police themselves and would not even go in there so it was a prescription for disaster. The extremists infiltrated and had a field day, unabated, and this was the result. This was a political correctness decision that ALWAYS backfires. As far as the Crusades, the reason for Pope Urban II to call the first crusade, and take back the Holy Land, was because the few radical Muslims who occupied it would not allow Christians to visit the Holy sites and to free them from Muslim rule.

[Old Ryder]

People on this planet all want the exact same things for the most part--- a decent job, food, clean water, to have somebody to love and also be loved. Most people are not bad. Most people are not out to harm anybody, but it only takes a few bad examples to destroy the image of a lot of good people.

History ebbs and flows.......................... The Catholic church 800 years ago is todays ISIS. Humans due ungodly things in the name of God. It gives the true God a bad name. He is watching and I promise you he is unhappy. Least we forget, it was the highest religous leaders that had Jesus Christ put to death. This is really nothing new---just a different generation.

[unsub]

History ebbs and flows.......................... The Catholic church 800 years ago is todays ISIS. Humans due ungodly things in the name of God.

That is a good observation. The humans that perpetrate these terrible acts against other human beings are/were simply murderous animals and societal misfits to begin with. They simply discovered a place at some point in their lives, that would "allow" them act out their anti social doings under the protection of religion.

Ah, good ol' religion, a convenient cover for all shapes and sizes of bad people.

Hey, and if you're not religious before you commit your bad deeds, you can always conveniently convert to the religion of your choosing to minimize in the eyes of your peers anyway, the bad things you've done.

God has been asleep at the switch I'm afraid.

[taxfree4]

The only way to cure this is with overwhelming, military bombardment not delegated by the rules of engagement from a political civilian but complete absolute destruction and systematic routing of present and potential terrorists by unshackled military leadership, in other words Crusade the bastards.

[Steve 0080]

The only way to cure this is with overwhelming, military bombardment not delegated by the rules of engagement from a political civilian but complete absolute destruction and systematic routing of present and potential terrorists by unshackled military leadership, in other words Crusade the bastards.


+1 ... I have always been confused by our leaders/people... we want our military to be boyscouts when what we need is stone killers....don't shoot back until shot at...I can see this spilling over into our law enforcement soon as well .... instead of shooting them/who ever off the fence and moving forward...

Good thing I am not in charge !

[grendl]

Reading this thread gives me pause,so many thoughts and emotions on what we are seeing our world denigrate to.
To our French member(s).
Yes we feel your pain. Don't believe what our politicians say or have said about your amazing country and culture.I for one remember my history lesson that your country stepped up to assist in our initial freedom which allowed us to become a great country.What has happened there will become the norm if we don't all get busy on these cowards. These groups whether they are sanctioned or not by any group are nothing more than barbarous cowards. They will not stand and fight and know that the vast majority will NEVER agree with them.
As much as I don't want to go that way,I am afraid that in order to conquer this enemy we may have to become them.
In Africa they have killed over 2000 people in an innocent town of people just like most of us. Dealing with their problems,raising their children and no match for any military presence or aggression. .These small towns come and go with no notice of most of the world.Attacked by cowards with no possible resistance.
While we are observing this in the world,we also have to be cognizant of where our own society is going.Defending things that are wrong,allowing different entities in both our government and corporate world to lead us down the same path.Ignoring basic rights that we proclaim to uphold so dearly to further agendas that serve only a few. Using Christian religion to defend atrocities that are becoming more common.
The way I was raised and believe is if I have a beef,I stand for myself against the offender and get it worked out.Not sneaking around hurting innocent people. That has worked for 65 years successfully. That is a true man's or woman's way.
I say again these people that do this deserve nothing,they are cowards. Nothing more.
I was taught first not to be one and never accept it,especially from bullies.
Running the risk of being censored on the forum I say F**k these A$$holes. Off my planet-by any means necessary...

[wantone]

One has to go beyond organized religion to know the truth. Hope this answers a lot of what is going on.

http://www.ananda.org/ask/mary-mother-of-jesus-as-explained-by-yogananda/

[Steve 0080]

One has to go beyond organized religion to know the truth. Hope this answers a lot of what is going on.

http://www.ananda.org/ask/mary-mother-of-jesus-as-explained-by-yogananda/


?????????????????????

[misterc]

Following the butchery at the Paris magazine Charlie Hebdo, we are in the middle of another blizzard of post-facto hash-tag bravery. All over the Internet there are whole mobs holding up little signs: “I am Charlie Hebdo,” “We are Charlie Hebdo.” The idea, I presume, is to broadcast their commitment to the Western idea of freedom of speech and the press. Let’s put it plainly: The solidarity would have been a lot more impressive, more persuasive, some time before this week’s mass butchery.

Indeed, at our universities, newspapers and broadcasters, we have seen an ever-shrinking defence of free speech, a timid reluctance to take on those who claim special privilege to shut down those they simply don’t like. The great institutions of the West, the press and the universities, have been at best complicit and at worst cowardly when it comes up to defending freedom of speech — not from threats of Islamist fanatics with guns, but in much less demanding circumstances.

Where was this “we” when a video critical of Islam was mendaciously identified as the “cause” of the terror attack on Benghazi? Where was “we” when Hillary Clinton went on Pakistani television to declaim against this “reprehensible” video and revile its maker, and at the Benghazi victims’ funerals said: “We’ve seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful Internet video that we had nothing to do with.” Where was “we” when the filmmaker was arrested, while to this day the butchers of Benghazi roam the Earth unmolested?

Where is this We of the Hash-tags when whole swathes of the press, and some political leaders, refuse to call acts that are plainly terroristic by their proper name? Can those who refuse to say the word “terrorism” after a terrorist act now claim they are Charlie Hebdo?


And where was We of the Hash-tags when President Obama made the inexplicable declaration at the United Nations that “the future does not belong to those who slander the Prophet?” More than anything else, that sounds like a fulsome statement of accord with those who denounce cartoons and videos and editorials about the “Prophet,” who riot after he is “traduced” by someone in the West. There is no “We are Charlie Hebdo” in that statement. There is surrender instead.

And what about our prophets, of the Enlightentment and democracy, who made free speech the core of our lives and politics? We are notoriously timid in defending them, and almost tumid with the desire to speak up for those who despise them. Why do we wallow in some shallow hollow of factitious guilt, moaning over our failings to “understand” after 9/11, after Mumbai, after London, after Ottawa, after Paris this week, rather than laying the guilt on the real perpetrators and the ideology that fires them?

Our universities bleat about inquiry and free speech, but they are feeble and craven, caving in to protestors and special interests, pleading “sensitivity” and the “wish not to offend” any time some topic or speaker threatens to “hurt” the professionally agitated on campus. Where was “we” when a band of fatuous progressives protested former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice giving a convocation address at Rutgers University? She worked for Bush, so free speech be dammed.

Where was We of the Hash-tags when Ann Coulter was pre-emptively cautioned about what she could or should say by officials at the University of Ottawa? Where was “we” when Ayaan Hirsi Ali was humiliated and an honourary degree invitation revoked after campus activists at Brandeis University — faculty and students — protested? Brandeis mounted a defence of free speech that would have Patrick Henry drooling with envy: “[Ali] is a compelling public figure and advocate for women’s rights. … That said, we cannot overlook certain of her past statements that are inconsistent with Brandeis University’s core values.” A Presidential Medal of Freedom for that wonderful “that said.”

There are more examples closer to home: Christie Blatchford howled from the stage at the University of Waterloo, a pro-life speaker at St. Mary’s University in Halifax met with the feverish chant of “No hate speech in our school!” — and the administration, of course, shutting down the talk.

I could continue for a week. This part of the world has a sack full of pieties when it comes to free speech, but its own actions, and frequently its own words, put the lie to all of them. Bowing to ruthless protest has become a habit. Labelling speech some people simply do not wish to hear as “hate speech” succeeds in silencing it. In matters big and small, on issues from global warming to abortion, there is collusion — we call it political correctness — over what should not be said, what cannot be said.

It’s worth adding too that there is no such fastidiousness when it comes to images rebuking, mocking, insulting or demeaning any of the symbols — the cross, the host, the mass — of the Christian faith. The North American media and so-called comedy shows make a tiresome habit of slandering or crudely defaming the majority faith of the North American continent, all the while lying — yes lying — that they are equal opportunity offenders.

In the domain of the laugh-generators of late night TV, Christ gets a pie in the face every 10 minutes while Mohammed is awarded the incense of silence, becomes “he whose name must not be spoken.” Jon Steward is not Charlie Hebdo. He is that wonderful self-contradiction, a “safe-target” satirist. Bush jokes are the coward’s idea of humour.

All of which makes this hash-tag war, all the We are Charlie Hebdo manifestations, so very, very hollow. If we will not speak for free speech when it is shut down by special interests, protestors of the politically correct, on campuses and in newspapers, we manifest that we are not serious about free speech. There is no “we” after the killings. There are very few worthy of that claim … and, alas, under the shout of allahu akbar, 12 of them are now quite dead.

National Post

[Hornblower]

And that, IMHO, is an awesome post :clap2:

[taxfree4]

When you capture these animals have public executions with every media outlet there to televise it. There was a very good reason for publicly offing someone as it put it on display, the consequences, to one and all, the result of committing crimes against your fellow man. We hide death these days, that is why bad children who grow into bad people, nowadays, they think they are invincible. There is a very decisive wake-up call when you see a public hanging or firing squad and you're the little rebel who thinks he's going to grow up to be a bad ass. Put every murderers, rapists, kidnappers execution on pay-per-view and take the proceeds and give it to the victim's family, watching it would be public service.

[bigbird]

When you capture these animals have public executions with every media outlet there to televise it.

Great Idea!
The American version of ISIS.

[taxfree4]

There's a big difference, ISIS executes innocent journalists, civilians, despises freedom and supports terrorism. But then again there are some so-called Americans who believe the biggest threat to the world is the freedom and way of life of America.

[Limoles]

Sir - I really admire your enlighten point of view and absolutely intelligent correctness . The only problem with "WE" is , that ... WE ARE NOT UNITED !

[flyboy]

Another view, not necessarily mine:

The biggest prank on humanity is religion, caused by alien visitation.
If you can't explain something, it's god's doing.

Do I believe it?
t's not out of the realm of possibility.

+1

[MarcPW]

10548
It say: Hi ! This is Charlie...
They are not Muslim, they are fundamentalist. They kill more Muslims arround the world than Christians. I am french and so proud of the massive support and amazing amount of people that walked this Sunday in France. From all religions.

[Phantom]

:icon_evil:

Today they fire bombed a GERMAN newspaper that re-printed the French cartoons :banghead:

[Steve 0080]

Until Muslim's speak against this, nothing will change, and they will not or the same will happen to them, blasphemy I believe is the word that comes to mind.

Again, to stop this our army's will have to get down to their level and as I have said before , we do not have the stomach for it...

[Steve 0080]

10548
It say: Hi ! This is Charlie...
They are not Muslim, they are fundamentalist. They kill more Muslims arround the world than Christians. I am french and so proud of the massive support and amazing amount of people that walked this Sunday in France. From all religions.

Hopefully the leaders from that part of the world will be able to stop this type behavior...you did notice that the USA was not represented and the ATTY GEN was there !!!

[taxfree4]

Although the marches of solidarity are fine it's what happens after them that matter. If France doesn't change its' policy about law enforcement having a presence inside these Muslim enclaves, ramping up its' counter-intelligence there to route out current and potential terrorists, then all this rallying is just symbolism over substance, a show. Temporarily declare martial law, which will suspend habeas corpus, catch these maggots and drag them before a military tribunal and let them handle it with no civilian, political interference. Put a permanent military presence inside these communities and the good citizens of these areas will feel safe because they can't be threatened or intimidated by the radicals since they are just as much hostage of these same radicals as the rest. Once you restore order these citizens will trust you that you are not the enemy, which they are brainwashed to believe. Complete and absolute cleansing by overwhelming military force is the only thing that will work and nothing short of it will matter.

[hoglaw]

Islam is a cult.

[MarcPW]

Islam is a cult.

It is not.

[taxfree4]

Ladies, that was not my original post as you can read my original post right before Scotrod altered it. I am sorry he thinks Jews are terrorists. If anyone read it, and understood it they would never have come to that conclusion. Anti-Semitism and illiteracy is a dangerous thing by themselves but together it is a prescription for disaster. Don't alter my posts, if you don't understand them just ask and I will break it down in plain words.

[MarcPW]

10565

this one is for hoglaw...

[Phantom]

:what:

:wrong:

:no:.batman-smilie. :no:.batman-smilie. :no:.batman-smilie.


I had not read the altered "quote" until just now.
The original post did not mention "JEWS" as it was altered to do so and has mislead others to view a fellow member in a different light that he did not deserve. If you don't like a post IGNORE IT! We don't need this type of crap, just agree to disagree. I only ask that everyone act your age NOT your shoe size. There is nothing wrong with having a little fun at each others expense, I'm the biggest GOOFBALL on here, but please not in these type of conversations.

I started this post to have an intelligent dialogue between us, reading different views is what I sought.

I've gone back and cleaned up the thread. taxfree4, please accept my apologies

[taxfree4]

It's not that simple, when someone is trying to alter your words to convey that you are something you're not, you have to respond. This is supposed to be a forum for adults to exchange ideas and opinions and not adolescent little girls who can only respond with emotional hissy fits, sans intellect. If we are adults let's act like it and keep the discussion from disintegrating to this schoolyard bullshit.



No need to apologize, thank you Phantom, now let's continue what was a very spirited exchange.

[bigbird]

taxfree4, please accept my apologies

And mine as well.
I didn't know another member had butchered your original post.
Not funny or cool.

[taxfree4]

Sometimes you have to pause having fun and respond to the horrific events that are the topic of every newscast and most conversations, this is not just a French problem. Maybe if the French Military used F6B's, pulling a gunner with a 50 caliber, to patrol those neighborhoods it would ease the locals and scare the terrorists. I think I tied it all in. No apologies needed bigbird and no hard feelings, even to Scotrun, anyone can have a bad moment, I know that all too well.

[Scotrod]

Aye Carrumba! Y'all puff and blow, full of pizz and vinegar, talking about taking absolute control,, no mercy,,, and my comparison get 'poo - poo'ed...

Oh well,,

As some would say,,, There's nothing new here to see,,, move along now,,,

And I agree.

[Old Ryder]

So did Scotrod's freedom of speech get blown up? Is he Charlie?

Oh my???


Again----what does this have to do with motorcycles?

[taxfree4]

To end this that wasn't a comparison or freedom of speech, it was plagerism within direct quotes. And, yes, to handle this you must handle the terrorists like Israel does, military occupation combined with excellent counter intelligence is the only solution. The cops alone can't handle it, as was demonstrated when the terrorist assassinated that poor French cop, already wounded on the ground, who put his hand up as a last sign of desparation before the trigger was pulled.

[Phantom]

So did Scotrod's freedom of speech get blown up? Is he Charlie?

Oh my??? Again----what does this have to do with motorcycles?

I started this thread asking why this senseless act?

Post #9 (It has to do with humanity)
I stated in respect to our fellow French F6B members,

"We stand united, we feel your pain. We are all Charlie"

The altered post was misleading and unfortunately it worked, causing another member to react incorrectly.
Wether it was satire or not, it was a false quote and merited its removal.

[Old Ryder]

I have no dog in this fight. I have no Muslim friends nor do I have Jewish friends. I find this exchange entertaining. Nearly 2 billion people are judged by the action of a few hundred or thousands

What Scotrod did was simply change the group from Muslim to Jews and suddenly it is a horrible thing to say those words. His post is deleted because it offended---kind of like a French magazine offends in the name of humor. I think that's ironic--- and true.


A little known fact is that Germany never had more than 33% of the population belonging to the Nazi party and yet we think of all Germans of the 1930-1940s as being the worst of humanity

Here is my message----Judge the person and not the group. Now that everybody's thinking and angry, I will enjoy that fact. :icon_cool: it never hurts to wear somebody else's shoes for a while.

[Phantom]

What Scotrod did was simply change the group from Muslim to Jews and suddenly it is a horrible thing to say those words. His post is deleted because it offended---kind of like a French magazine offends in the name of humor. I think that's ironic--- and true.
.

You are missing the point, his post was deleted because it was a FALSE representation of another quote/member, it triggered incorrect assumptions which in turn caused another member to smear undeservingly the non-offending member.

If you guys want to wrongfully piss off your fellow riders .... there are several motorcycle websites where that is their primary sport. I prefer to keep this website without any of the BS. I'm not perfect nor will I be able to please everyone.

Please remember that if you have not paid your membership dues to this website ... and your post is deleted don't expect a refund.

Please .... let's stick to the thread topic. Thanks

[Old Ryder]

You are missing the point, his post was deleted because it was a FALSE representation of another quote/member, it triggered incorrect assumptions which in turn caused another member to smear undeservingly the non-offending member.
Thanks

maybe I am.

A blanket statement about X group is ok. The same blanket statement against y group is offensive.

How many individuals of either group do we personally know?

Let us say that I am Muslim in a country in the Middle East. I am actually a fat old bald guy in NC! but if I were how should I react to all of this?

[Phantom]

maybe I am.

A blanket statement about X group is ok. The same blanket statement against y group is offensive.

How many individuals of either group do we personally know?

Let us say that I am Muslim in a country in the Middle East. I am actually a fat old bald guy in NC! but if I were how should I react to all of this?


'stop now' YOU ARE MISSING MY POINT !!!!! I don't care of what group you want to speak of !

If you want to talk about a specific group then OWN your own post, don't make it look like someone else made the statement.

his post was deleted because it was a FALSE representation of another quote/member .....

:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead: :banghead:

[taxfree4]

Phantom don't waste your breath because apparently the people who are commenting didn't read or didn't understand what they were reading. Scotrod didn't replace the word Muslim with Jew because my focus wasn't on the Muslims, it was on the terrorists, who were hiding inside the Muslim enclaves. And if you (from the original post)"Put a permanent military presence inside these communities and the good citizens of these areas will feel safe because they can't be threatened or intimidated by the radicals..." because then you would have (from the original post) "route out current and potential terrorists". That was the focus, not the law abiding Muslim citizens inside these communities, and once you restore order they (from the original post) "can't be threatened or intimidated by the radicals since they are just as much hostage of these same radicals as the rest. Once you restore order these citizens will trust you that you are not the enemy, which they are brainwashed to believe." Scotrod then went ahead and replaced terrorists with the word Jew. Like I said previously, if you don't understand what you're reading I will explain it.

[Darren]

The problem is there is no military solution that will work, as you are dealing with an idea, not a location or a people. Education is the key, especially of women, since the majority of religions are misogynistic in nature.

[taxfree4]

We're not dealing with ideas, we're dealing with ideas that become actions in a specific location, like what happened in France. Israel doesn't deal with their terrorists by educating the terrorist's women, they do it by using their military to infiltrate, apprehend and incarcerate current and future terrorists. Billions of people find solace in religion, whatever that religion may be, and lead a quiet, peaceful life bothering noone so I would refrain from blaming religion or its' faithful with a broad brush. I find that people who have a problem with faith are the people who have a hard time adhering to rules. It's hard for an adulterer, thief, molester etc. to bring themselves to God because it would take them to admit their wrongdoing. That is why they have psychiatrists and therapists to explain away their problems and hold responsible everything and everyone else for their problem.



BTW looking through my old stuff I found this patch

[Old Ryder]

Actually, I did get the point. The problem is that I really love these types of debates. The best were the Harley vs Honda on the VTX boards. There was one about the Westboro Church that went on for weeks. I like to know not just what you think, but why you think that way, and I will lob a slow pitch in there to see what happens. It’s all good. One of the issues is that we cannot understand or accept when a different culture has different values. Especially in this case when they go about voicing their displeasure is such a bad and wrong way. See my first post (#18)—I have no ties with organized religion. I am a Christian, but do not want to be connected to any of them, as they have misled humanity and shaped worship to line their pockets and hurt others.

BUT CONSIDER THIS…………………………

I have done a pretty good job to establish the importance of free speech and how horrible it is when somebody’s words get substituted or mis-quoted. The founding fathers placed this right above all others. The militants are upset and ready to die because they feel/think their religious leader has been made fun of, belittled, and humiliated by Charlie. So what we are saying is that my right of free speech supersedes your right to hold something sacred and important. Isn’t that backwards? Poking fun of something that a group sees as very important and holy seems like a giant display of disrespect. I can see where they do not value your right to laugh and be entertained at the expense of their god. Is that so wrong? We all agree that their response is wrong. It is a different set of values and standards at the root. Assuming you have a God to worship, does it make you angry when comedians and magazines poke fun? If it is important to you then it should. You should not react the way they do, but you should feel something. Or do you think God likes to be mocked and laughed at?

Food for thought.

And yes, 12 murders because of a pencil is senseless. We all agree on that.

[Darren]

We're not dealing with ideas, we're dealing with ideas that become actions in a specific location, like what happened in France. Israel doesn't deal with their terrorists by educating the terrorist's women, they do it by using their military to infiltrate, apprehend and incarcerate current and future terrorists. Billions of people find solace in religion, whatever that religion may be, and lead a quiet, peaceful life bothering noone so I would refrain from blaming religion or its' faithful with a broad brush. I find that people who have a problem with faith are the people who have a hard time adhering to rules. It's hard for an adulterer, thief, molester etc. to bring themselves to God because it would take them to admit their wrongdoing. That is why they have psychiatrists and therapists to explain away their problems and hold responsible everything and everyone else for their problem.



BTW looking through my old stuff I found this patch

I'm sure your right. After all it's not like anyone who has found god has committed a crime or molested a child or required therapy. In this instance though religion is the key factor, by the way don't confuse that with belief in a god, they are not necessarily exclusive.

[taxfree4]

That wasn't the point, to accuse religion of being the culprit is like holding the gun responsible for the crime. People who do these acts use religion as a cover for their acts of terror, the microscopic few. Noone is saying that within these organized religions, whatever that is, there aren't sinners but there is a prescription, if one chooses, to correct the evil that one does, should they choose to. Religion is just a collection of beliefs so if that is in a cathedral, temple, mosque or by yourself around a tree worshiping the environmental god that is your religion or beliefs. Like the people who believe if you had educated a particular sex the massacres in France wouldn't have happened, that's the religion of Liberalism, or political correctness - take your pick, that's what got them into the mess in the first place. Or you can call it a fairy tale. I just prefer to be a part of an organized religion as opposed to an unorganized religion, I like things tidy.

[Darren]

That wasn't the point, to accuse religion of being the culprit is like holding the gun responsible for the crime. People who do these acts use religion as a cover for their acts of terror, the microscopic few. Noone is saying that within these organized religions, whatever that is, there aren't sinners but there is a prescription, if one chooses, to correct the evil that one does, should they choose to. Religion is just a collection of beliefs so if that is in a cathedral, temple, mosque or by yourself around a tree worshiping the environmental god that is your religion or beliefs. Like the people who believe if you had educated a particular sex the massacres in France wouldn't have happened, that's the religion of Liberalism, or political correctness - take your pick, that's what got them into the mess in the first place. Or you can call it a fairy tale. I just prefer to be a part of an organized religion as opposed to an unorganized religion, I like things tidy.

Unfortunately everything they have done is linked and allowed within that religion, without it the acts would not have occurred. I was actually pointing out the absurdity of the bomb them calls as this is not linked to one place but instead is linked to an idea. Where would the bombs be dropped, which country? Your going to have to find another solution for your jihad. It's a shame that those who claim to worship the same god can't get on, after all they all claim to be religions of peace.

There is no religion of liberalism and I do not see how you can blame this on that even if there was.

[53driver]

...I like to know not just what you think, but why you think that way...

Bingo. Been saying that for years.

OBTW: This goes for the terrorists too....

[taxfree4]

Where in the Quran is bombing and the senseless murder of innocent people allowed? Now who's blaming a whole population for a microscopic few? Ideas don't murder or detonate bombs people, who are twisted, do. Have you ever said "I'll kill you" to someone knowing full well you are really not going to kill them? Or maybe you were really so enraged with someone and became so enraged, for a split second, you visualized taking them out? After that split second you snap back into reality and the thought is gone, I know I have. Although judging by my exchanges with you you may want to hug someone to death. Anyway, there is a great divide between having the IDEA of doing something and ACTUALLY doing it. There is some faulty wiring up there that makes you actualize your thoughts. That is why what someone thinks doesn't bother anyone, however, what they do certainly will. Religion doesn't do that sick, warped human beings do. And:spank: it's not a jihad it's a crusade jihads are initiated offensives, Crusades are responses to those actions. As far as worshiping the same God, I don't know where you got that, if you don't believe Jesus the Christ is the way to salvation, we ain't in the same religion.

Liberalism, progressives, political correctness (6 of 1 half a dozen of the other) is most definitely a religion, as a religion is defined: "a*system*of*thought,*feeling,*and*action*that*is*s hared*by*a*group*and*that*gives*the*members*an*obj ect*of devotion;*a*code*of*behavior*by*which*individuals* may*judge*the*personal*and*social*consequences*of* their*actions;*and*a*frame of*reference*by*which*individuals*may*relate*to*th eir*group*and*their*universe." And that's a encyclopedic definition and if that doesn't describe tree-hugging, Upper West Side hipsters nothing else will. It was liberal, politically correct policy that prevented the French cops from patrolling these sections as not to oppress the citizenry. That closed them off from interaction with police and further isolated them from the rest of the the community which was ripe for terrorists to go unabated. Liberalism - it fails every time it's tried.

[Darren]

if you don't believe Jesus the Christ is the way to salvation, we ain't in the same religion.


You don't know your god very well, since Judaism, Islam and Christianity all follow the Abrahamic god of the old testament.

[taxfree4]

if you don't believe Jesus the Christ is the way to salvation, we ain't in the same religion.


You don't know your god very well, since Judaism, Islam and Christianity all follow the Abrahamic god of the old testament.

You're delusional, Catholicism came out of Judaism as the Apostles were still going to temple in the infant church, however, Judaism does not recognize Jesus as a messiah but they do regard him as a great teacher that is where it ends, maybe you can tell me their stance on the Holy Ghost and the Holy Trinity altogether. That is why in temple they stress the Talmudic teachings because, unlike the Old Testament, which foretold of the coming of Christ, there are no messianic predictions because their messiah hasn't come yet. As far as Islam they hold the Blessed Mother and Jesus in high esteem but don't consider Her Immaculate not Jesus the messiah, their messenger is Muhammed. We follow the New Covenant because the Old Covenant was fulfilled, as Jesus said, by Him. That is our road map, we pay homage to the Old Covenant in our mass by way of Psalms and readings but that is where it ends. The New Covenant (Testament) it's the GPS to our salvation. Can I copyright that?

[taxfree4]

Behold! the angels said: "O Mary!*Allah*hath chosen thee and purified thee – chosen thee above the women of all nations.

—Quran,*sura*3 (Al Imran),*ayah*42

[taxfree4]

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/546373/muslims-help-rebuild-catholic-church-in-zamboanga

No fanfare or parades just fellow man helping fellow man

[taxfree4]

Liberals - they know a little about a lot of things and a lot about nothing.

[taxfree4]

France must have been following this post


http://news.yahoo.com/photos/france-deploys-10k-troops-1421069096-slideshow/

[flyboy]

Liberals - they know a little about a lot of things and a lot about nothing.

That sounds like most of the people I know! Is that a proven fact or just your opinion? Just wondering who, in your opinion, does know a lot about something?:icon_biggrin:

[taxfree4]

That sounds like most of the people I know! Is that a proven fact or just your opinion? Just wondering who, in your opinion, does know a lot about something?:icon_biggrin:
Anyone else, because there is no critical thinking with them as they are going strictly on emotion and as we know emotions are not reliable. Most people, like myself, will try to familiarize themselves with a topic before they enter into a discussion, no less a forum where your words are there for all to see. Not them because all they have to do is verbalize their feelings on an issue and that is their argument, like if we only educated the women in these Muslim countries the massacre at Charlie Hebdo would not have happened. Yeah, that'll do it.

[Darren]

Anyone else, because there is no critical thinking with them as they are going strictly on emotion and as we know emotions are not reliable. Most people, like myself, will try to familiarize themselves with a topic before they enter into a discussion, no less a forum where your words are there for all to see. Not them because all they have to do is verbalize their feelings on an issue and that is their argument, like if we only educated the women in these Muslim countries the massacre at Charlie Hebdo would not have happened. Yeah, that'll do it.

Lol critical thinking and religion go together like oil and water, but that is a completely separate debate

[Limoles]

"Religion's hysteria is an effect of neurologically driven schisophrenic disorder - doctrine for all wars and human intelligence abuse" .

[Steve 0080]

When the emotional activity is high, the brain activity is low.....

[bigbird]

:shrug:
"Religion's hysteria is an effect of neurologically driven schisophrenic disorder - doctrine for all wars and human intelligence abuse" .

I'm in the absurdly small minority, and you can accuse me of blasphemy, but I think the "gods" were/are aliens.

:iduno:

[taxfree4]

Lol critical thinking and religion go together like oil and water, but that is a completely separate debate
I was actually quoting you, Darren, in this post when you said:

"The problem is there is no military solution that will work, as you are dealing with an idea, not a location or a people. Education is the key, especially of women, since the majority of religions are misogynistic in nature".

This goes back to my point, the religion of liberalism requires no common sense or critical thinking, following your line of thinking if we just open up an all girls school all the terrorism will go away. Yeah that'll work

[taxfree4]

And Matriarchal societies always work out in your liberal dream, however, in reality we call them the inner city.

[flyboy]

Lol critical thinking and religion go together like oil and water, but that is a completely separate debate

+1 :lolup:

[flyboy]

:shrug:

I'm in the absurdly small minority, and you can accuse me of blasphemy, but I think the "gods" were/are aliens.

:iduno:

+1 :lolup:

[taxfree4]

Lol critical thinking and religion go together like oil and water, but that is a completely separate debate

A more perfect definition of liberalism I couldn't come up with myself since it lacks both critical thinking and religion. That is another example of the liberal mindset where these generalities, like above, are thrown out there without any facts, proof or ability to debate it, just pure emotion. The whole world of commerce (Uniformed Commercial Code) that controls anything in the world that is shipped, delivered and paid for, like your skinny jeans, is based on the Code of Canon Law as is the whole world of law and jurisprudence. Forget educating the Muslim women, let's start with Canada.

[cosborn]

I'm a Buddhist, and as part of my volunteer work I work at a soup kitchen in the centre of Canberra, yep the nations capital. I met a Christian fundamentalist the other day who told me that if i didn't follow Jesus and his teaching, I would burn in hell.

He didn't like it when i told him there was very little difference between Muslim fundamentalist, and himself.

Chris

[Limoles]

I'm a Buddhist, and as part of my volunteer work I work at a soup kitchen in the centre of Canberra, yep the nations capital. I met a Christian fundamentalist the other day who told me that if i didn't follow Jesus and his teaching, I would burn in hell.

He didn't like it when i told him there was very little difference between Muslim fundamentalist, and himself.

Chris

+1

[taxfree4]

I'm a Buddhist, and as part of my volunteer work I work at a soup kitchen in the centre of Canberra, yep the nations capital. I met a Christian fundamentalist the other day who told me that if i didn't follow Jesus and his teaching, I would burn in hell.

He didn't like it when i told him there was very little difference between Muslim fundamentalist, and himself.

Chris

Then, apparently, he doesn't know the words of his own Savior "For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged". The worst sin you can possibly commit is to judge anyone's soul, as you are acting "God-like" since He is the Ultimate Judge. So for him to say that tells me that he had no idea of even the fundamentals of what he professes to be. As far as the difference between Christians and Muslim fundamentalists - vast, evidenced by the fact that once he found out you were Buddhist he didn't demand you renounce it and become Muslim and when you refused, he didn't behead you.

[Steve 0080]

I was raised and BELIEVE as taxfree4 has so eloquently posted here.... I have also wondered thru out my life.... How many faces does God have? Just back 400 years the American Indian worshiped the sun, each "religion" has worshipped in their own way....Could all that have come before failed to see heaven because they have not accepted God as their Holly Savior? Then there are religions that mimic Christianity from the beginning of time as well, with the "same story line". A lot of thinking here...

[choptop]

All this talk about religion makes my head hurt so early in the morning, I was raised catholic and went to church every morning before school and taught by nuns for 8 years. Haven't been to church since then except for an occasional funeral or wedding. Do I believe that their is a God and everybody and everything that goes along w/that belief, I am not sure but I thank him every night for watching over me and mine and for future blessings, just before I say goodnight to those I love that Have passed before me. Am I hedging my bets for the future, just in case, maybe, but I am intelligent enough to know what I am doing and my situation is not such that I have to hold so desperately on to my religion that I would either convert you or kill you because of it.
Being a booger eating moron from Wi , I like to keep it simple, I know their were a lot of bad things done in the name of religion WAY back in the day,that was a long time ago, today is today. I don't know, or care about how closely our religions are entwined or were they came from, matters not to me, what matters to me is how you are and how you perceive others as a religion.
I live in an intelligent, industrialized 21st century society, were I will likely have a spirited, non violent debate w/someone over religion, shake hands after it and go on your way rather than him attack me or return w/his zealot friends and either convert me or kill me.
To me, that's were the intelligent/industrial or modern if you will, society comes in, for the most part we as a people, have something going on, because of our society , we work , we play, ... I don't envision the gihadist doing his disgusting deeds after work or on weekends or vacation rather than spending time w/his family or hobbies. Getting a little deeper than I am comfortable with, but you get the idea.
Again, keeping in mind that I am a booger eating moron, I see (3) kinds of Muslims, the Muslims that you and I see or don't everyday, on our streets, the Muslims that came to the religion threw their family, possibly Muslims for generations, and those that came to the religion because of perceived need , by that I mean their situation and maybe who was around them at the time, brought them to the religion, say a nut case, a down on his luck, a prison inmate or just someone kind of lost, in a world full of people and last but certainly least,the radical muslims. remember I like to keep things simple.
I think if you are a true Muslim, live the religion, that many, may have more things in common w/the radical bunch, than they may believe, but you would probably not go around converting the way they do, but may not condemn what they do because they are spreading the religion, so to speak, but in a different way but still heading towards what your religion wants, (1) religion, the Muslim religion.
I am sorry but the religion is suspect to me, I do not know what your true feeling/intentions, towards me are, as a christian/non believer. Do I live my life worried about it, no, I just try to keep myself aware.
Maybe if we threw a gazillion dollars at the, the radical ones and changed their conditions, that things could change, but I doubt it, you can't change generation upon generation upon generation ideas, especially when religion is concerned. But I am sure we will try but I nor generations of my family will never see a change.

In closing I say let the "live and let live" Muslims preach their faith, as all intelligent religions do, and convert as their preaching may lead someone to convert and exterminate the radical gihadist and continue to kill them as they pop up and try to convert by intimidation and death. Our civilization does not have a place for the gihadist.

[Old Ryder]

I have also wondered thru out my life.... How many faces does God have?

As a 43 year student of the Bible, I have found that God only has one face. Humans like to use their imperfect condition to make up their own religion, so to speak. One person says "My God wants me to do this or that" and another reasons in his own mind a different idea of what God wants.

The key is that it is tied to the heart condition. 2 Corinthians chapter 4 and verse 6. If your heart is not correct, you will never come to figure out the true God and what he wants. So most people create a God in their mind and they reason on what he wants according to their personal standards---hence they are satisified in their mind that they are worshiping in an approved fashion. They never really consult on what God expects or requires of them.

[taxfree4]

I ride with Protestants, Jews, Muslims, atheists, agnostics and even a Liberal now and then (You can always tell them as they are the ones with the HD Deluxe clothes line - helmet, goggles, gloves, shirt, boots and assless chaps- and it's 60 degrees out) How you get to your God is your business, I don't care, just shut up and ride.

'gw-smiley''gw-smiley''gw-smiley''gw-smiley''gw-smiley''gw-smiley''gw-smiley'

[bigbird]

Forget educating the Muslim women, let's start with Canada.

WTF??????

[taxfree4]

Don't take it personal, that was strictly for Darren. I love Canada, spent my third honeymoon at Horseshoe Falls, Skylon Tower and a big fan of Canadian Maple Syrup, Canadian Cuban Cigars and, of course, Mike Myers.

[Old Ryder]

And Neil Young. Of course that may be over a lot of heads here. Must be the correct generation.

[taxfree4]

And my favorite of course Joni Mitchell who, in my opinion, is one of the greatest singer/songwriters ever. A little known video with a tune "Take the Highway" that I play over and over on a long ride. Creative and beautiful, as you can see in the video.


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MUNrZFreRx4

[bigbird]

And Neil Young. Of course that may be over a lot of heads here. Must be the correct generation.

He's 5 years older than me, but lived in the neighbourhood where I grew up during his mid to late teens.

[Old Ryder]

He's 5 years older than me, but lived in the neighbourhood where I grew up during his mid to late teens.

Can you get me an autograph?????? :icon_lol:

[bigbird]

Can you get me an autograph?????? :icon_lol:

He has been back to Winnipeg on several occasions to perform. His old house is a bit of a "to see" destination for visitors and fans. The last time Bob Dylan played here, Bob scheduled a side trip just for himself (no entourage) to see Young's old house, asked the current owners for a tour which they gladly did, and hung out there on a blanket on the lawn absorbing the karma and essence of the location. Most of Young's best writing apparently took place in that house as a teen.
The chances of my getting an autograph, unfortunately, are the same as yours: nil, zero, nada, nichts, gourhnisht, rien, drobiazg, niente, neeshto ........ you get the idea.

[Old Ryder]

About the only famous person I know is Maceo Parker. He was the sax player for James Brown for about 40 years. BTW, he is nothing like he is portrayed in the movie "Get on up". His son is one of my closest friends.