there goes the neighborhood

[tinknocker]

What would all of you do if they were putting in a recovery house literally a stones throw from your house?

[Steve 0080]

Join them!

[taxfree4]

Get together with your neighbors and work together to use the power of the municipality to make sure every blade of grass is cut to city standard. Make sure that every building code is met, there are no cracks in the sidewalk since they can be tricky and people can fall. If one of the residents so much as crosses the street the wrong way call the cops. Make it so uncomfortable for them to the point that it would be easier to leave than to stay.

[Jimmytee]

Join them!

"coffee":lolup:

[Spanky]

could be worse... how about sex offenders?
http://www.wsoctv.com/news/news/local/neighbors-score-victory-against-sex-offender-group/nj2LX/

[GiddyupF6B]

I'd say live and let live! Being 6 years sober and in recovery myself I would be supportive any way I can. Different strokes for different folks......

[taxfree4]

It could be worse, the Democrats could have put up a campaign headquarters for Hillary for President. I would take the likes of a crackhead prostitute than to have to look at those bull dyke heifers anytime.

[Deer Slayer]

Join them!

:lolup:.notworthy.

[tinknocker]

This will be a recovery house for heroin addict and the property butts against many properties with very young children and I Don't have a problem with the sober ones living there but the high relapse rate and the fact of so many small children in the area.

[taxfree4]

Seriously, these houses needed approval at the local level, find out the nearest lowlife politician and tell him if he wants to get reelected to find a way to get rid of it. Naturally this should be in the form of a protest letter with as many signatures as possible. It should be sent monthly with more and more signatures each time. The minute politicians see a united front they begain to notice as it is their job to keep us divided. Also if this is being supported by business donations find that info and boycott those businesses and protest in front. If you're vigilant you will be succesful. The winner is always more stubborn than the problem.

[bigbird]

I wonder if any of these harsh responses would be tempered if one of you has ever needed addiction help.
Everyone wants a facility to help those in need, but no one ever wants one in their neighbourhood.
Do as I say; not as I do. Have your cake and eat it too.
I've heard those statements way too many times.
I'm with you, GiddyupF6B.

[taxfree4]

There are countless other options and places where they can put recovering heroin addicts , inside residential neighborhoods where children and families are is not one of them., not to mention property values and the theft of property to feed that habit. Addicts relapse no matter how good the rehab is. Some are there because they HAVE to be there as part of a plea deal and not because they have the inner desire to do so. People who bought the homes surrounding this property didnt anticipate a halfway house popping up in the middle of it and if it had been there how many would have bought, mmmm none. This has nothing to do with compassion and everything to do with the security and serenity and protection of a home. Just like if a crackhouse or pothouse moved in the neighborhood just the same. Do whatever it takes to get rid of it. Most of the time the local politicians or their relatives are involved monetarily in these particular ventures. Here's an idea, ship them to Denver there's plenty of empty homes and space, if you're getting it for nothing you really can't complain. BTW you'll never see these places in areas where the median income is $250,000 and up, know why? Because the people have the resources to get up and leave the place barron. Middle class doesn't have the luxury to do that, and the sleazy local pols know that.

[GiddyupF6B]

The opinions in this post are ones I'm choosing not to further comment on because nothing good can come out of it. It's just a shame this housing is viewed as a "problem" when it's actually a method of solution...it's a shame the way some people think.

[bigbird]

And I will add....
In my city, population of .75M, there exists a very trendy, heavily populated high rise and infill housing area. My daughter and son-in-law used to live there before they had their first child. Right across the street from their apartment is an in and outpatient addiction centre. In the 4 years they lived in that area, never once was there an incident involving the addiction centre. About a half block away is Winnipeg's most prestigious riverfront condo building, with sales starting at over $1M and only going up.

Needless to say, the political and economic clout those condo owners carry could have that addiction centre gone in no time if it were in an urban US city.

But this is Canada, and apparently by the sounds of this topic, we are a kinder, more compassionate group than the free for all, take no prisoners attitude of the masses of the USA, who rely on the second amendment to their bill of rights to allow their country to be so dangerous and threatening to their own citizens. :soapbox:

[tinknocker]

I am not arguing the need for such a facility in my town it is riddled with these drugs yet another argument as to not bring the fat kid to the candy store. We only found out about this after it was leaked subsequently after the closing in this property was suppose to have happened. They tried to sneak this into our neighborhood without any input or answering questions of the ones who will be most affected by this. I have said I don't think this should go into my neighborhood or ANY neighborhood so close to small children...the risk is not worth the reward. My neighborhood is zoned for a single family residence only and they are using the Americans with disabilities act to force it in....that's just my two pennies worth but maybe I'm just the close minded one who only has my families safety at heart

[taxfree4]

Noone, in their right mind, would move on a block, into a neighborhood where this facility would. That is why they put these in existing neighborhoods. Let's try an experiment, pass a law that these facilities can only go into new construction and all prospective home buyers have to be notified before they buy that this facility will be in this new construction. Now how many new home buyers, who are planning to start a family would buy, venture to say 0.

[hoglaw]

There are countless other options and places where they can put recovering heroin addicts , inside residential neighborhoods where children and families are is not one of them., not to mention property values and the theft of property to feed that habit. Addicts relapse no matter how good the rehab is. Some are there because they HAVE to be there as part of a plea deal and not because they have the inner desire to do so. People who bought the homes surrounding this property didnt anticipate a halfway house popping up in the middle of it and if it had been there how many would have bought, mmmm none. This has nothing to do with compassion and everything to do with the security and serenity and protection of a home. Just like if a crackhouse or pothouse moved in the neighborhood just the same. Do whatever it takes to get rid of it. Most of the time the local politicians or their relatives are involved monetarily in these particular ventures. Here's an idea, ship them to Denver there's plenty of empty homes and space, if you're getting it for nothing you really can't complain. BTW you'll never see these places in areas where the median income is $250,000 and up, know why? Because the people have the resources to get up and leave the place barron. Middle class doesn't have the luxury to do that, and the sleazy local pols know that.

+1

[53driver]

....than the free for all, take no prisoners attitude of the masses of the USA, who rely on the second amendment to their bill of rights to allow their country to be so dangerous and threatening to their own citizens. :soapbox:

Why did you bring the 2nd Amendment into this? Your logical argument was fine, but by "adding" this tidbit, I'm so sorry, you have lost credibility.
This thread had NOTHING to do with the Constitution, let alone Amendments, but "blaming guns" is the first fallback position for anyone who cannot make logical points.
You are better than that, BigBird. I have seen your other posts and followed your logic completely, both on and off the F6B. I'm a more than a bit disappointed.

[taxfree4]

Just to clear up the handgun thing with some facts:

According to data from the*FBI’s uniform crime reports, California had the highest number of gun murders in 2011 with 1,220 — which makes up 68 percent of all murders in the state that year and equates to 3.25 murders per 100,000 people AND the strongest gun control laws*in 2011 by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence

Since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the Chicago murder rate has averaged 17% lower than it was before the law took effect, while the U.S. murder rate has averaged 25% lower.

A 1994 survey conducted by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that Americans use guns to frighten away intruders who are breaking into their homes about 498,000 times per year.

In the US 200,000 times a year women use a gun to defend themselves against sexual abuse

Nations with*strict gun control laws have substantially higher murder rates*than those who do not in general.*In fact, the 9 European nations with the*lowest*gun ownership rate have a combined murder rate 3x that of the 9 European nations with the*highest*gun ownership rate.

In the decade following the Labor party's election and banning of handguns in 1997 in the UK, the number of recorded violent attacks soared by 77% to 1.2 million in '07- or*more than 2 attacks every minute!

In 1982, Kennesaw, Georgia passed a law*requiring*heads of households to*keep at least one firearm*in the house. The residential*burglary rate subsequently dropped 89%

Every public mass shooting*in the USA since 1950 has taken place*where citizens are banned from carrying guns.

[shooter]

Boys let me tell you its OK to say that it will be all hunky dory and everything but the ugly truth is you're not the one with young children whose property butts up next to this facility. Its always OK for someone until they are offended. To the OP I feel your pain. I would talk to local LE for some assurances on stepped up patrols during meeting times and maybe organize a neighborhood watch. And to those who say live and let live , if you think that works your head is in a bag.

[bigbird]

Why did you bring the 2nd Amendment into this?


Innocent citizens need to carry guns for protection from the criminals who carry guns.
Now everyone carries guns.
No one knows how to use a gun safely, if there is such a thing.
it's a revolving door that will never correct itself.
The only way to make your country safe from criminals and addicts who seem to threaten your daily existence is to remove all guns from the hands of US citizens, save for law enforcement agencies, just like up here.
But your outdated constitution prevents that from ever happening.
God bless America.

[bigbird]

I'm so sorry, you have lost credibility.
I'm a more than a bit disappointed.

If I show up in Holland PA on my F6B (without a handgun, of course) will you still ride with me?

[jaygollner]

The opinions in this post are ones I'm choosing not to further comment on because nothing good can come out of it. It's just a shame this housing is viewed as a "problem" when it's actually a method of solution...it's a shame the way some people think.

I agree 100%, punishing people instead of helping them up doesn't work that well.

[jaygollner]

If I show up in Holland PA on my F6B (without a handgun, of course) will you still ride with me?

If I show up with mine will you ride with me?

[taxfree4]

Boys let me tell you its OK to say that it will be all hunky dory and everything but the ugly truth is you're not the one with young children whose property butts up next to this facility. Its always OK for someone until they are offended. To the OP I feel your pain. I would talk to local LE for some assurances on stepped up patrols during meeting times and maybe organize a neighborhood watch. And to those who say live and let live , if you think that works your head is in a bag.

+100

[shooter]

Innocent citizens need to carry guns for protection from the criminals who carry guns.
Now everyone carries guns.
No one knows Dr how to use a gun safely, if there is such a thing.
it's a revolving door that will never correct itself.
The only way to make your country safe from criminals and addicts who seem to threaten your daily existence is to remove all guns from the hands of US citizens, save for law enforcement agencies, just like up here.
But your outdated constitution prevents that from ever happening.
God bless America.

Bird as much as I respect you , you sir are out of touch. Canadians live under the bubble of US protection and therefore fly low under the radar. Where I live LE response time can sometimes be measured in hours or not at all. Being Proactive is the only choice one can make when it comes to the security and safety of ones family. Anyone that does not realize this is truly out of touch. LE cannot protect you from the bad guys. They can only clean up in the aftermath. And if you think a mere commoner can't be proficient with a handgun come to my gun club some Saturday and watch myself and dozens of my friends shoot an IDPA match. It is truly awe inspiring.

[GiddyupF6B]

Boys let me tell you its OK to say that it will be all hunky dory and everything but the ugly truth is you're not the one with young children whose property butts up next to this facility. Its always OK for someone until they are offended. To the OP I feel your pain. I would talk to local LE for some assurances on stepped up patrols during meeting times and maybe organize a neighborhood watch. And to those who say live and let live , if you think that works your head is in a bag.


+100

My head is far from in a bag, it's ignorant opinions like yours and your friend up there that have head issues. I encourage you to take this up with your local politicians, police dept, home owner associations, and whom ever else you feel needs to hear how outraged you guys are.....I wish I could be there as they laugh in your face and tell you to stop wasting their time. Go ahead and request additional patrols from the police for these horrible people who are trying to beat the disease of addiction. They're "halfway" houses all over this country where people go to get sober and live with other sober people to try and better themselves. These aren't rehabs or drug addiction facilities, they're houses with a community of struggling people trying to help themselves and each other. The comments here act as if a full blown correctional facility is going up where you and your precious privileged and entitled family lay their spoiled heads every night. They obviously need to help each other any way they can because people like you wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire. To each thy own and LIVE AND LET LIVE! Sober and proud of it!! I'm glad there's places that people can go to choose the path I walk.......even if it's in your backyard! Flame on....I won't be replying.

[53driver]

If I show up in Holland PA on my F6B (without a handgun, of course) will you still ride with me?

Yes. Of course. I will even invite you in, offer you food and drink and spirited discussion.
Losing credibility on an internet thread is not cause to "un-friend" anyone. I was just disappointed that this one time, you drug something non-related into the conversation - it's not like you and I'll regard it as a one-time anomaly.
No worries.

[53driver]

No one knows how to use a gun safely, if there is such a thing.
That there is just flat out wrong.



The only way to make your country safe from criminals and addicts who seem to threaten your daily existence is to remove all guns from the hands of US citizens, save for law enforcement agencies, just like up here.
But your outdated constitution prevents that from ever happening.
God bless America.

Well, bad people seem to find a way to get guns - whether or not the guns are legal, or the procurement was legal.
The only thing that stops a bad person with a gun, is a good person with a gun - like most law enforcement officers.
So, if the bad people are going to get guns, regardless if they are legal, it makes no sense then to make them illegal for honest law-abiding citizens, does it?

Anyway, I'm still at a loss as to how this topic came up in a discussion about a halfway/recovery house in a neighborhood.......

[smokinjoe187]

That there is just flat out wrong.




Well, bad people seem to find a way to get guns - whether or not the guns are legal, or the procurement was legal.
The only thing that stops a bad person with a gun, is a good person with a gun - like most law enforcement officers.
So, if the bad people are going to get guns, regardless if they are legal, it makes no sense then to make them illegal for honest law-abiding citizens, does it?

Anyway, I'm still at a loss as to how this topic came up in a discussion about a halfway/recovery house in a neighborhood.......

+1

[bigbird]

Being Proactive is the only choice one can make when it comes to the security and safety of ones family. Anyone that does not realize this is truly out of touch. LE cannot protect you from the bad guys. They can only clean up in the aftermath. And if you think a mere commoner can't be proficient with a handgun come to my gun club some Saturday and watch myself and dozens of my friends shoot an IDPA match. It is truly awe inspiring.

I am truly out of touch with the American way of thinking.
Your country and mine are so different in terms of attitudes towards the poor, the sick, and the right to own weapons.
If you were to give a handgun to any person I know, they would say "no thanks, why would I want or need that?" And it is legal, but a very tedious process, to own a handgun here.
I feel very lucky that I live in a country where I don't need to own a weapon to feel safe.

[53driver]

I am truly out of touch with the American way of thinking.
Your country and mine are so different in terms of attitudes towards the poor, the sick, and the right to own weapons.
If you were to give a handgun to any person I know, they would so "no thanks, why would I want or need that?" And it is legal, but a very tedious process, to own a handgun here.
I feel very lucky that I live in a country where I don't need to own a weapon to feel safe.

And that, my snow-bound friend, is the difference. I can fully appreciate your perspective.
I can also say that I am as out of touch with your culture, with regards to weapons, as you are with mine.
My background is different than most - I have been to many countries and experienced many different cultural "norms" regarding everything from weapons, to treatment of women, to a linear approach to respect rather than earned, and most recently, the complete disrespect for human life by ISIS.
And that leads me to this statement: NO ONE is completely safe. (Except perhaps people living north of the Arctic Circle.)

Don't let life take you where your brain hasn't already been for at least 15 minutes.
Cheers.

[bigbird]

NO ONE is completely safe. (Except perhaps people living north of the Arctic Circle.)



That is the one place where I would want to have a handgun.

Wolf packs and polar bears put way more fear into me than any human being would at that latitude.

[53driver]

That is the one place where I would want to have a handgun.

Wolf packs and polar bears put way more fear into me than any human being would at that latitude.

LOL. Save the last bullet for yourself, 'cause you won't get them all!

[tinknocker]

Since handguns have been brought into this I will say I do own one and I do carry it...my belief is the same as many if guns are outlawed then only outlaws will have guns...now I'm not quite as young and sprite as I once was and it is my duty and mine alone to protect my family...and I will protect them I promise you

[taxfree4]

First of all it's not a disease and I don't buy that psycho-babble. Words mean things and when you tag it as a disease it means you have no control over it, you do. You're just not ready to be unselfish, responsible and assimilate into a community as a member.Tapping someone with a Freudian Wand and telling them it's a disease does not help the problem, and it is a problem especially when these facilities move next to you. For those of you touting the great success of these places call them up and offer your home to the them, but you probably won't. The reason why they're there is because their own families don't even want them so they locate them next to yours. So come down off your soap boxes and stop cheerleading putting waste stations in residential neighborhoods. There are plenty of vacant military facilities, municipal buildings, hospitals and various other locations away from any possible temptations they may have, like little children, where they can fully rehabilitate and THEN be welcomed into a community. I'd still watch them after that but you can let them babysit your kids.

[GiddyupF6B]

First of all it's not a disease and I don't buy that psycho-babble. Words mean things and when you tag it as a disease it means you have no control over it, you do. You're just not ready to be unselfish, responsible and assimilate into a community as a member.Tapping someone with a Freudian Wand and telling them it's a disease does not help the problem, and it is a problem especially when these facilities move next to you. For those of you touting the great success of these places call them up and offer your home to the them, but you probably won't. The reason why they're there is because their own families don't even want them so they locate them next to yours. So come down off your soap boxes and stop cheerleading putting waste stations in residential neighborhoods. There are plenty of vacant military facilities, municipal buildings, hospitals and various other locations away from any possible temptations they may have, like little children, where they can fully rehabilitate and THEN be welcomed into a community. I'd still watch them after that but you can let them babysit your kids.

I think I'll stick with the medical doctors opinion on what a disease is and not a biker from Brooklyn! It is the internet however and you are entitled to spew your uneducated medical opinion wherever you want I guess.......:icon_doh:

[shooter]

My head is far from in a bag, it's ignorant opinions like yours and your friend up there that have head issues. I encourage you to take this up with your local politicians, police dept, home owner associations, and whom ever else you feel needs to hear how outraged you guys are.....I wish I could be there as they laugh in your face and tell you to stop wasting their time. Go ahead and request additional patrols from the police for these horrible people who are trying to beat the disease of addiction. They're "halfway" houses all over this country where people go to get sober and live with other sober people to try and better themselves. These aren't rehabs or drug addiction facilities, they're houses with a community of struggling people trying to help themselves and each other. The comments here act as if a full blown correctional facility is going up where you and your precious privileged and entitled family lay their spoiled heads every night. They obviously need to help each other any way they can because people like you wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire. To each thy own and LIVE AND LET LIVE! Sober and proud of it!! I'm glad there's places that people can go to choose the path I walk.......even if it's in your backyard! Flame on....I won't be replying.
LIAR.

[taxfree4]

Well an opinion is not a medical fact by its' own definition, it's like a theory, a guess, like global warming, tooth fairies, unicorns, pixie dust, addiction is a disease and Jimmy Hoffa is buried in Giants Stadium. BTW no need to get personal with the biker from Brooklyn wisecrack. We are exchanging opinions here and you know what they say about opinions - they're like as$holes every forum has one, we're even.

[shooter]

He said he was gonna stop t4f. The ones that say that usually can't.

[Dirtstiff's F6B]

I hope riding weather improves for you all, soon..:catfight:

[taxfree4]

It's like crack to them they can't help themselves - it's a disease. ( was that insensitive)

[shooter]

Yes. But its OK.

[Phantom]

:popcorn:

Easy on Brooklyn .... they make some good Pizza up there 'surrender2'

[terrydj]

Be more worried about your neighbors ????
You know the ones that drive home after having a few drinks at the club or sport with the kids in the car. The ones who speed, the ones that back out the driveways without looking. The ones that drink every night and still reckon they don't have a problem.
I think its best to look in your back yard first.
Remember without community support their may not be places like some are afraid of and then what :icon_cool:

[taxfree4]

That's the point, because we are aware of our neighbors, who may be dangerous to children, you don't want them brought together in one large group and moved next door to you. If you believe one neighbor, who may be dangerous, is bad imagine a whole house full. You don't move next door to a fireworks factory even though they take all the precautions in the world, it's that one time that something goes wrong. I don't gamble with the lives and futures of my own , or anyone else's kids. As far as community support, I don't know how they do it in Australia but here they call it FICA. Its the four letter word that begins with an F and it robs your paycheck every week for 30-35%. That is about as supportive as I want to be. Most people are too busy raising their kids to have time for anything else, like babysitting grown ups so they don't fall off the wagon.

[shooter]

Another thing you tree huggers forget is that these people aren't here by choice. It is most probably court ordered. So they don't necessarily want to get better. Chances are they are still on the "juice".

[Steve 0080]

I personally do not buy into the "disease" theory ...Life is full of choices, sometimes you make the wrong one ! When society categorizes unacceptable behavior into a disease, then that makes the action "OK". Why can't the behavior just be bad, why is everything a disease??? Pick your poison, obesity,gambling,porn,drinking,smoking crack and the list never stops !!!

On my original post ..Why not join them...."keep you enemies close and your friends closer" It IS coming so why not join in and see if you can steer this in a way that would be acceptable to you and yours?

[Steve 0080]

big bird "I feel very lucky that I live in a country where I don't need to own a weapon to feel safe."

Sorry sir, but this is the one of the most untrue statements I think I may have read.... Life is but a flicker in time and today the light may go out !

[bigbird]

big bird "I feel very lucky that I live in a country where I don't need to own a weapon to feel safe."

Sorry sir, but this is the one of the most untrue statements I think I may have read.... Life is but a flicker in time and today the light may go out !

As stated before, I shouldn't be commenting on the psyche of the American citizen, as I have never been in the US long enough to feel assimilated.
The same would apply to you regarding the Canadian psyche, unless you've spent considerable time up here.
And I do feel perfectly safe without owning or carrying a weapon. I'm sorry that your US experiences make you think contrarily.

[Steve 0080]

It has NOTHING to do with where you live,work, or play...bad things happen to good people... EVERYDAY!!!

[shooter]

Steve you know that about now some people are starting to think and reevaluate. Don't they have home invasions in Canada? Don't they have murders? Is no one ever robbed? Why can't it happen to you Bird? And buddy I'm not trying to be mean. I'm dead serious. It only happens to other people is a myth.

[bigbird]

Steve you know that about now some people are starting to think and reevaluate. Don't they have home invasions in Canada? Don't they have murders? Is no one ever robbed? Why can't it happen to you Bird? And buddy I'm not trying to be mean. I'm dead serious. It only happens to other people is a myth.

Of course anything's possible.
I don't live my life in fear. Shit like you describe happens so rarely that people up here don't even think about it, much less fixate on it. I don't know anyone who has ever been mugged, suffered a home invasion, or been assaulted. We do have gang activity up here, but they prey only on their own. Our police service is exemplary in my opinion. They are there when we need them. Of course they don't respond immediately to low priority incidents, but if a call comes in about shots fired or weapons (knives or guns) visible, they are all over it immediately. It certainly helps that we don't have to worry about every Tom, Dick, & Harry carrying a handgun under their jacket. The few illegal handguns used by gang members only come out at 3am when turf is being disputed, and that's even rarer than going from an F6B back to an HD.
I'm sorry, but this just isn't a problem or issue where I live. My biggest concern about ever going downtown in my city is finding a parking spot or being solicited by a panhandler.
It is what it is. I guess I'm fortunate to live in a very non-violent society. It sounds like most of you in the US can't fathom what I'm saying, just as I can't fathom needing to carry a weapon around on my person to feel safe.

[shooter]

You're right Bird. It happens daily around here. I live 30 miles south of St Louis. 46 years in business at this location had to take my gun out twice. Not bad. But yeah wouldn't know what to do if it wasn't like it is. Ferguson is only 40 miles up the road and I'm sure you have heard of that. To us it seems normal and your situation seems ludicrous. Good luck my friend.

[shooter]

Oh , and Bird , I don't even go downtown anymore without backup. That translates to one of my friends that carries and is competent.

[bigbird]

Oh , and Bird , I don't even go downtown anymore without backup. That translates to one of my friends that carries and is competent.

That sounds like the Wild West. shot his foot

Here's another tidbit that will floor you.
I have never seen a handgun that hasn't been holstered to the hip of a law enforcement person or bank delivery armoured guard. I don't even know what it's like to hold a handgun.
Long guns, however, are a very different story. Owned and used hunting rifles since I was a kid. I got rid of my last rifle once my first child was born.

[Elroy]

That sounds like the Wild West. shot his foot

Here's another tidbit that will floor you.
I have never seen a handgun that hasn't been holstered to the hip of a law enforcement person or bank delivery armoured guard. I don't even know what it's like to hold a handgun.
Long guns, however, are a very different story. Owned and used hunting rifles since I was a kid. I got rid of my last rifle once my first child was born.

I don't know anyone who has ever been mugged, suffered a home invasion, or been assaulted.

I know I'm late to the party here, but wanted to interject if I may, and I do not intend to open the 100th can-of-worms that're now crawling on this thread.

But think of it like this Bird; do you have a fire extinguisher in the house? Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive? Do you lock your house/car when you leave? I imagine you probably do most of those, but is it because you PLAN on getting in a car wreck, or your house going up in flames, or someone burglarizing your house or car? Or is it just a preCAUTION? That is why I arm myself when I leave my home, and why I'm usually armed even when I am home. It is a precaution against ill-intending people, just as a seatbelt is a precaution against impaired, distracted, or just plain bad drivers. Bad things happen to good people every minute of every day, be it a head-on collison with some idiot, or being held at gunpoint. You say you don't know anyone who's ever been mugged, suffered a home invasion, or been assaulted. But I'm sure you know someone who's been hurt in a car accident that wasn't their fault, or had something stolen from them, or had their house burn down (I unfortunately know 2 families who've suffered such that event). My point is, you know good people who've been wronged, and is proof that, no matter how "rare", terrible things do happen to people who don't deserve it. The best thing we can do, is prepare for those events, take the precautions.

And in a previous post you mentioned you do not live your life in fear. Well, neither do I. I have a means of response to equally life-threatening force, and therefore do not live in fear. To say the US is full of violent criminals, and citizens who nervously clutch to their pistol's grip is ridiculous to say the least. However, for you to put so much faith and trust into LE, and the good-nature of the population, and think that Canadian gang activity only harms gang members, is, imho, looking through the rosiest of rose-colored glasses.

"I'd rather always have my firearm, and never need it, than to need it, and never have it." I hope you, or anyone else for that matter, never finds themselves in such a situation.

I have a question though, what did having a child have to do with getting rid of your rifles?

[shooter]

"An armed society is a polite society". Jeff Cooper

[terrydj]

Here in Australia we look after our own. We have a health system that everyone can access for free. Yeah like a heart transplant for free. Hospital for free nursing for free, unemployment assistance for free and addiction for free.
My father was a person of addiction, not his fault, he came home from Korea a bit screwed up (D company 3RAR Kapyong) suppose it was better to drink than go crazy ????? Took his own life when 66
And for the Gun ownership supporters. DID YOU KNOW BECAUSE OF GUN DEATHS IN AMERICA IT CAN LEGALLY BE DECLARED A WAR ZONE ????
Don't believe me ????
More than 10000 a year ??? in America
Check them numbers against the deaths in recent wars like Vietnam on-wards ?
Remember that"s 10000 a year
Love Australia. A country built by Englands waste, the Convicts :icon_cool:

[bigbird]

But think of it like this Bird; do you have a fire extinguisher in the house? Do you wear a seatbelt when you drive? Do you lock your house/car when you leave? The best thing we can do, is prepare for those events, take the precautions.

I have a question though, what did having a child have to do with getting rid of your rifles?

Quick answers, Elroy.

All the things you mention are legal, some being mandated by law or home insurance requirements.

In Canada it is illegal to own a handgun unless you go through many expensive and ponderous hoops, one of which is mandatory membership in a gun club and the other being a permit to move that gun out of the gun club, to your home, and back to the gun club. Handguns in Canada are classified as restricted weapons. If you want to read about how difficult it is to obtain and own a restricted weapon (handgun), knock yourself out here:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

Children are inquisitive and resourceful. A rifle lying about unlocked, even separated from its ammunition, is a source of curiosity even for a toddler.
I didn't need a rifle lying about to trigger (pun intended) any possibility of accidental or purposeful discharge by a child. And I wasn't about to spend hundreds of dollars to obtain the necessary lockable rifle cabinet required by law.

[bigbird]

Here in Australia we look after our own. We have a health system that everyone can access for free. Yeah like a heart transplant for free. Hospital for free nursing for free, unemployment assistance for free and addiction for free.

Love Australia. A country founded by Englands waste, the Convicts :icon_cool:

Same situation here in Canada.
Love Canada. A country founded by curious English and French entrepreneurs.

What would you rather have, free heart transplants or the right to easily carry a concealed weapon?

[Hornblower]

What would you rather have, free heart transplants or the right to easily carry a concealed weapon?

One thing that some of us have figured out...there is no such thing as FREE...anywhere :nono:

[shooter]

Ken its great to be associated with guys like you. Hey Bird , we live in different cultures. To me , your country is a socialist culture. Almost communism. You're not free to make your own choices. Your government makes your choices. Down here , without the gun , you may not live to need the heart transplant. Bird once again I say this with respect. Just expressing my opinion. I've carried a handgun every day for over 30 years. To me it seems normal. If I left the house without it then I would feel half dressed. Its not like that with everyone but for me that's normal.

[Elroy]

Same situation here in Canada.
Love Canada. A country founded by curious English and French entrepreneurs.

What would you rather have, free heart transplants or the right to easily carry a concealed weapon?


Quick answers, Elroy.

All the things you mention are legal, some being mandated by law or home insurance requirements.

In Canada it is illegal to own a handgun unless you go through many expensive and ponderous hoops, one of which is mandatory membership in a gun club and the other being a permit to move that gun out of the gun club, to your home, and back to the gun club. Handguns in Canada are classified as restricted weapons. If you want to read about how difficult it is to obtain and own a restricted weapon (handgun), knock yourself out here:

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/restr-eng.htm

Children are inquisitive and resourceful. A rifle lying about unlocked, even separated from its ammunition, is a source of curiosity even for a toddler.
I didn't need a rifle lying about to trigger (pun intended) any possibility of accidental or purposeful discharge by a child. And I wasn't about to spend hundreds of dollars to obtain the necessary lockable rifle cabinet required by law.

To your first question, either is a fantastic privilege/right. However, nothing is free, don't care how it's wrapped up and presented. And secondly, the fact it is fairly easy to obtain a carry permit, it does vary state-to-state, does not influence my decision to do so. If it were harder, had all the hoops and red-tape that you refer to in Canada, I would still go through the process.

And in response to your response; so you only do those things because they are required by law? I quite doubt that. I wear a helmet in states with no helmet laws because...go figure, it protects me.

And yes children are curious creatures, have you also ridden your home of lighters, knives, plastic bags, cleaning chemicals, aerosols, do you have plastic covers on all your outlets? I hope you don't own a pool. OR, have you instead taken the necessary preCAUTIONs to prevent or limit their access to these items? Not degrading your decision to keep a child safe in your home if your not willing to take the necessary steps, but the home of a responsible gun owner is as safe as "Jill the soccer mom's" home is.

[Elroy]

Here in Australia we look after our own. We have a health system that everyone can access for free. Yeah like a heart transplant for free. Hospital for free nursing for free, unemployment assistance for free and addiction for free.
My father was a person of addiction, not his fault, he came home from Korea a bit screwed up (D company 3RAR Kapyong) suppose it was better to drink than go crazy ????? Took his own life when 66
And for the Gun ownership supporters. DID YOU KNOW BECAUSE OF GUN DEATHS IN AMERICA IT CAN LEGALLY BE DECLARED A WAR ZONE ????
Don't believe me ????
More than 10000 a year ??? in America
Check them numbers against the deaths in recent wars like Vietnam on-wards ?
Remember that"s 10000 a year
Love Australia. A country built by Englands waste, the Convicts :icon_cool:

Terry, I would love nothing more than to avoid statistics. There are 3 types of lies, #1 lies, #2 damn lies, and #3 statistics. Frankly the logic of your comparison of the day-to-day of the lives of US citizens to the brutality of a WAR is warped. Vietnam lasted 21 years with over 5mil casualties! Do you realize how long it would take to reach 5mil deaths at 10,000/year? I'll do the math for you, 500 years! Talk about apples to oranges......

And I love America. A country built by England's unruly children.

On a lighter note - I've always to wanted to see Australia

[terrydj]

So true, but the truths the truth.
10000 a year is 10000 a year end of story
I have owned guns all my life
Beat an Australia Olympic Gold Medalist (Russel Marks) in shotgun.
Can double pop from the draw ??? with ease to 30 feet 45cal an under
Was in the Military here in Australia with a training unit that America sent its best too.
To kill your own when not in a state of war to stay free then ??????
The term America the free scares me.

And Wow Vietnam lasted 3 years??????????
Australia was their for ten and America was their for longer with deaths I believe of over 50000 ????? Thats deaths of half a year less than in America.

And honestly I thought America was originally built by people who wanted to be kings

[taxfree4]

As far as health care, no one flies to Canada to get major surgery, sorry my Canadian friends that is an American monopoly. People from all over the world do anything they can to get here just to tap into the expertise and advancement of American medical knowledge. Free enterprise, even in health care will always produce a better quality product than a single payer program. However, I would give a kidney to party with Rob Ford and even relocate just so he could be my mayor. That man made Canada cool.

[Elroy]

So true, but the truths the truth.
10000 a year is 10000 a year end of story
I have owned guns all my life
Beat an Australia Olympic Gold Medalist (Russel Marks) in shotgun.
Can double pop from the draw ??? with ease to 30 feet 45cal an under
Was in the Military here in Australia with a training unit that America sent its best too.
To kill your own when not in a state of war to stay free then ??????
The term America the free scares me.

And Wow Vietnam lasted 3 years??????????
Australia was their for ten and America was their for longer with deaths I believe of over 50000 ????? Thats deaths of half a year less than in America.

And honestly I thought America was originally built by people who wanted to be kings

My apologies, I had mistakenly searched Korea. You mentioned your father was there, as was my grandfather, so the Korean War was on my mind. I edited my post, 21 years. Excuse me.

Please tell me where in the world do people not kill their own when not in a state of war? By your logic, everywhere must be a war-zone. I don't know why the term "America the Free" scares you or has to do with you. You do not live here.

Yes, of course, they wanted to be Kings......I must've missed all the mentions of "monarchy" in the Declaration of Independence and Constitution....

[tinknocker]

I personally do not buy into the "disease" theory ...Life is full of choices, sometimes you make the wrong one ! When society categorizes unacceptable behavior into a disease, then that makes the action "OK". Why can't the behavior just be bad, why is everything a disease??? Pick your poison, obesity,gambling,porn,drinking,smoking crack and the list never stops !!!

On my original post ..Why not join them...."keep you enemies close and your friends closer" It IS coming so why not join in and see if you can steer this in a way that would be acceptable to you and yours?

this is where I have gotten to...there are still a few avenues to trot down but I am now trying to get questions answered and concerns addressed...trying to get these things done ON RECORD so if something happens someone is held with their feet to the fire

[bigbird]

To me , your country is a socialist culture. Almost communism.

That's funny.
Ever spent any amount of time in Canada?

I spent 6 weeks in the US in 2012. Drove to Florida. Two things stood out in my mind.
1) The lack of common sense used by drivers of all types of vehicles on the roads.
2) The fear of everything non-American.

I was very happy to cross the border back into Canada after those 6 weeks.

BTW, I never in those travels felt threatened by anyone or the need to have a weapon for protection. That included downtown Tampa at night, New Orleans downtown and in the French Quarter at night, wandering around downtown Memphis at night, and many motel and gas pit stops along the way. Either I was lucky, or the boogeymen were on holidays.

[hiflyer]

That's funny.
Ever spent any amount of time in Canada?

I spent 6 weeks in the US in 2012. Drove to Florida. Two things stood out in my mind.
1) The lack of common sense used by drivers of all types of vehicles on the roads.
2) The fear of everything non-American.

I was very happy to cross the border back into Canada after those 6 weeks.

BTW, I never in those travels felt threatened by anyone or the need to have a weapon for protection. That included downtown Tampa at night, New Orleans downtown and in the French Quarter at night, wandering around downtown Memphis at night, and many motel and gas pit stops along the way. Either I was lucky, or the boogeymen were on holidays.

You know I thought it best to stay out of this, but one thing occurs to me bird, you sure spend a lot of time bashing the greatest country on earth, even to the point of mouthing off and then deleting your posts. What's up with that?

[shooter]

You nailed it buddy. If we are so bad why is it everyone wants to be us. We may suck but we're damn good at it. I don't see droves of people trying to sneak into Canada. Or any other country on the planet. I wouldn't move if I could. Thanks for pointing that out Flyer.

[bigbird]

:kap: I am forever indebted to the USA for keeping me safe from Russia coming over the Pole.

[Phantom]

You nailed it buddy. If we are so bad why is it everyone wants to be us. We may suck but we're damn good at it. I don't see droves of people trying to sneak into Canada. Or any other country on the planet. I wouldn't move if I could. Thanks for pointing that out Flyer.

Easy now .....

I heard CUBA has had an illegal immigration problem for a long time :icon_rolleyes: . They offer free medicine, free college, free prison cells, no guns for the public, free beaches and the list goes on :crackup: Venezuela has free medical care, government controlled prices and $0.08 CENTS per gallon of gasoline, not seeing a line of people rushing to Venezuela.

I do recall a while back some Canadian official coming to the USA for medical treatment. We have many snowbirds down here in Florida from Canada that seek medical treatments here in the USA. Many complain about the CHINESE Doctors that the Canadian Government sponsors for the "FREE" medical care.

I have travelled and lived in several countries, NO other country comes close to this Great Nation, I love my country and the freedoms that we have. Unfortunately millions of people around the globe live under repressive "free" governments and will die not knowing what freedom is.


Lets go riding 'riding'

[BIGLRY]

Easy now .....

I heard CUBA has had an illegal immigration problem for a long time :icon_rolleyes: . They offer free medicine, free college, free prison cells, no guns for the public, free beaches and the list goes on :crackup: Venezuela has free medical care, government controlled prices and $0.08 CENTS per gallon of gasoline, not seeing a line of people rushing to Venezuela.

I do recall a while back some Canadian official coming to the USA for medical treatment. We have many snowbirds down here in Florida from Canada that seek medical treatments here in the USA. Many complain about the CHINESE Doctors that the Canadian Government sponsors for the "FREE" medical care.

I have travelled and lived in several countries, NO other country comes close to this Great Nation, I love my country and the freedoms that we have. Unfortunately millions of people around the glove live under repressive "free" governments and will die not knowing what freedom is.

Lets go riding 'riding'
+1:icon_smflag:

[Phantom]

:no::icon_cool:

What I don't understand is why Canadians and Socialist European citizens vote for all of these "FREE" services and then when it comes time to "PAY" for them, so many try to avoid paying the taxes that they voted for to make all of these services "FREE".

EVERY U.S.Post Office along the entire Canadian border has hundreds if not thousands of P.O. Boxes that Canadians use to DODGE paying DUTIES/TAXES which are tacked on to Canadian imports so they can pay for these "FREE" goods. Canadians drive across the border, pick up the merchandise, throw it in the trunk and head back north with the freedom from Canadian TAXES thanks to the good ole USA.

As a matter of fact, a few years ago I shipped several items to a Winnipeg resident ..... he had and I shipped the items to a P.O.Box in PEMBINA North Dakota, USA. Just 1 mile south of the Canadian border.

When I have to ship Merchandise to Europe, I always get the request to label the merchandise as a "GIFT" so that they don't pay import duties at the rate of what their home countries mandate. Since I own a Import/Export company, there is no way that I would put my licenses in jeopardy so that a "FREE" services citizen can avoid his obligations at the cost of my business.

NOTHING is FREE !!!! except the hot air coming out of your rear and that at times can be caustic. :icon_lol: Bed time ... Good Night !

[bob109]

Awe my American and Canadian friends, least we forget the "Original Owners" of the North American Continent. The North American Indians! Had they been the proud owners of Gatling Guns, Winchester Rifles and Colt Pistols things would be much different today. Considered "savages" they enacted the first ever "Immigration Laws" and look what it got them...Crafty and Sly Europeans by the boat loads bearing Arms, Measles, Small Pox and the likes. Welcome to reality folks. We, from shores far away, will decimate everything you hold "Holy" and "Sacred". We will kill and stack dead Buffalo, Deer, Elk and the like until your clean and pristine streams and rivers run red from the blood. We will fell every Red Wood and Old Growth Forest we can put a ax to. Over time we will herd you onto "Reservations" to "keep you in check" and continue to "pollute" every "pristine natural resource you cared and revered for centuries. So goes the "road to progress". We will teach you mere heathens our Religions and Cultures so you have a better appreciation for us. You will prosper and live much better under our ways and rule. And today here we sit, Canadians and Americans and argue over "Free Health Care and Gun Control:icon_doh:

[bigbird]

As a matter of fact, a few years ago I shipped several items to a Winnipeg resident ..... he had and I shipped the items to a P.O.Box in PEMBINA North Dakota, USA. Just 1 mile south of the Canadian border.



There are actually 3 different border service parcel businesses in Pembina. At one time or another I have used all three.

Patiently waiting for my free brain transplant, drop shipped by UPS.
Country of origin? USA.
Taxes and duties? None. Sent as gift from Phantom with a "get well soon" note.

God bless America!

[Phantom]

There are actually 3 different border service parcel businesses in Pembina. At one time or another I have used all three.


WHY ???? UPS, FedEx and the US Postal service deliver in Canada

I'm just saying that you Own up to your obligations of your GREAT euphoric "everything is free" nation.

Please understand that I like Canada. I don't have anything against it, it's just not as perfect as you want to portray.

Every country has it's good and bad, I would venture to say that there are more illegal Canadians in the USA then there are illegal US Citizens in Canada, those illegal US citizens are usually running from the law and find shelter in Canada.

POST your true mailing address below, I would venture to say that you would be receiving many "Get Well Soon" cards from several on this board :icon_biggrin::yes: :poke: :icon_mrgreen: No disrespect, but I'll go ahead and send you one :icon_razz: :hippy: grouphug :beer3:

Lets Ride ;side-car'

[bigbird]

I don't have anything against it, it's just not as perfect as you want to portray.


Canada is far from perfect.
I was born here, I have no intention of emigrating anywhere.
Would I want to live in the US?
Your southern winter is great, but the only thing that scares the hell out of me is the fact that so many people need to arm themselves to feel safe.

I feel very safe where I live.

That's all folks (for now)

[Steve 0080]

I did not check the figure of 10K killed each year by guns in this country...could be... and we need to get rid of guns ...OK.... what about the 50K will kill each year of our roads by motor vehicles.... need to outlaw cars also...


Bob...Thanks for the piece on Indians... my extended family!

[bigbird]

Bob...Thanks for the piece on Indians... my extended family!

Big no-no in Canada calling our First Nations or Aboriginal people "Indians".

We owe that name to the European explorers who thought our indigenous population looked like people from India.

[bob109]

Big no-no in Canada calling our First Nations or Aboriginal people "Indians".

We owe that name to the European explorers who thought our indigenous population looked like people from India.

Whatever you choose to call the original inhabitants and owners of Canada is by all means your call. No pun intended. The question is, did they invite folks from foreign shores or did foreigners just invite themselves in:shhh:

[bigbird]

The question is, did they invite folks from foreign shores or did foreigners just invite themselves in:shhh:

We all know the answer to that one.
We are still and will be for a long time trying to move forward up here. Those explorers, followed by our government, did some hideous things, of which I as a Canadian, am not proud.
My ancestors were not part of that group. They immigrated much later to the "promised land".

[taxfree4]

Three men - a Canadian farmer, Muslim fanatic and a Biker are all walking together one day.

They come across a lantern and a Genie pops out of it. I will give each of you one wish, which is three wishes in total", says the Genie.

The Canadian says, "I am a farmer and my son will also farm. I want the land to be forever fertile in Canada" POOF! With the blink of the Genie's eye, the land in Canada was forever fertile for farming.

The muslim was amazed, so he said, "I want a wall around Afghanistan , Palestine , Iraq and Iran so that no infidels, Americans or Canadians can come into our precious land." POOF! Again, with the blink of the Genie's eye, there was a huge wall around those countries.

The Biker says, "I am very curious. Please tell me more about this wall."

The Genie explains, "˜Well, it's about 5,000 feet high, 500 feet thick and completely surrounds the countries. Nothing can get in or out; it's virtually impenetrable."

The Biker sits down on his Harley, cracks a beer, lights a cigar, smiles and says, "Fill it with water.

[tinknocker]

Update: the agency that was pursuing this had decided that with all concerns about this house in this neighborhood that they are not going to proceed any further with the purchase of this particular home. Now that I've gotten a good conversation about second amendment rights going

[Steve 0080]

Update: the agency that was pursuing this had decided that with all concerns about this house in this neighborhood that they are not going to proceed any further with the purchase of this particular home. Now that I've gotten a good conversation about second amendment rights going


I am happy your are happy with the outcome... on a second note sad that your opine was jacked...it is as I have always said..you can't teach an ole dog new tricks and you will NEVER change someone's opinion!

[Retired Army]

The direction this thread is moving, perhaps the original question should have been what would you do if Colt built a hand gun factory in your neighborhood? shot his footshot

[Elroy]

The direction this thread is moving, perhaps the original question should have been what would you do if Colt built a hand gun factory in your neighborhood? shot his footshot

Buy stock in Colt :icon_wink:

[shooter]

Glad for the OP that things went his way. We need facilities like that but not in residential neighborhoods. Don't know if I was part of the threadjack or not. You go along and just follow the 'flow'. Sometimes I'm a little too passionate about a subject. For my part I hope I gave some good advice to the OP.

[taxfree4]

The direction this thread is moving, perhaps the original question should have been what would you do if Colt built a hand gun factory in your neighborhood? shot his footshot

Make sure they have guided tours and a firing range at the end of the tour so we can fire off a couple then proceed to the complimentary bar.

[taxfree4]

Update: the agency that was pursuing this had decided that with all concerns about this house in this neighborhood that they are not going to proceed any further with the purchase of this particular home. Now that I've gotten a good conversation about second amendment rights going


That is great news maybe you want to talk to the neighbors about buying the house and turning it into a motorcycle club. So no one else gets the idea. One thing about politicians and Liberals, they never give up. Also find out the local pols and elected community board members that were signing off on this and get them out next time around. Use these bastards as an example.

[shooter]

The direction this thread is moving, perhaps the original question should have been what would you do if Colt built a hand gun factory in your neighborhood? shot his footshot

Apply for a supervisory position.

[Elroy]

Glad for the OP that things went his way. We need facilities like that but not in residential neighborhoods. Don't know if I was part of the threadjack or not. You go along and just follow the 'flow'. Sometimes I'm a little too passionate about a subject. For my part I hope I gave some good advice to the OP.

+1, I echo his statements about de-railing the thread.:shake2:

[tinknocker]

No issues on the thread as I like to debate my second amendment rights too. However we do need one of these facilities in my little burg. Myself and a few of my neighbors even volunteered to help with any remodel or helping get community involvement in the next decision.

[taxfree4]

I saw her standing there and I told her she had 3 beautiful children
It was an honest mistake.

[shooter]

Tax you're killin me.

[taxfree4]

This one never gets old

[Westernbiker]

I saw her standing there and I told her she had 3 beautiful children
It was an honest mistake.

:crackup:

[taxfree4]

For a while Canada seemed cool, now without him I don't want to go anymore.

[taxfree4]

Uploading a couple I found in an old folder

[taxfree4]

Better late than never

[taxfree4]

The Gipper