Anyone NOT own a handgun?

[bigbird]

I'm curious if any of you F6B owners in the US does not own a handgun/s.
If so, why not?
It seems like the vast majority here do own and carry.

[CheesyRider]

I'm curious if any of you F6B owners in the US does not own a handgun/s.
If so, why not?
It seems like the vast majority here do own and carry.

I don't own one. I would, but it seems everywhere I might want to shoot someone has a "guns banned on these premises" sign.

[Kevbuckley333]

Odds are far greater when you own a handgun that you yourself will be shot. I am into everything that lowers my odds of being shot.

[DaWadd]

It's lucky I can't carry up here because I would have probably shot at least a hundred texters by now."coffee"

[Limoles]

I'm curious if any of you F6B owners in the US does not own a handgun/s.
If so, why not?
It seems like the vast majority here do own and carry.

I'll be first , who will fulfill your curiosity .
NO - I don't own any , so I don't carry one .
Why ? - Because I DO NOT WANT TO !!!!!

My best defense weapon is my humor and no fear from anybody .
I was in many strange situations in Chechnya , South African Soweto , Rio de Janeiro , Harlem , South Philadelphia - you name it . My goofy attitudes and respect to fellow human bean made more friends , so were no enemies to be afraid off .
In extended philosophy of so called "self defense" , I could provide millions of reasons to support my decision .

[Steve 0080]

I don't ...I don't mind if someone else does... There was a lot of money spent on me to teach me to injure folks...I don't need a gun, IE: read/ military type defense training.....

I DO believe if you have one you will use it in the right situation ...if you don't have a gun with you, you will go to plan "B"...


I don't care what side of the Zimmerman case you fall on...but do you think, if he could would he change his decision considering all the changes in his life? I think the average person would say it was not worth it... Once this decision is made your life is over as you know it....and yes I realize your life maybe me over as well...

NOW, that I am a little older and have a hearth condition, and a big mouth, I may need to revisit this and buy a bazooka ...because my mouth does not have a filter and some times words come out w/o me thinking.... sad but I usually say what ever I am thinking w/o thinking how my words will effect others...only one of my faults and I have many!

[Limoles]

It's lucky I can't carry up here because I would have probably shot at least a hundred texters by now."coffee"

In this subject , I'll need to help you out . Lets establish Mercyless Coalition Against Stupid Bustards on American Roads ,
who might even think to use those got damn phones during the driving . Well - I'm afraid , even nuclear weapons against them could't do any progress . Tough battle .

[ISLANDER1089]

I spent 28 years south of the border and ultimately owned a couple of hand guns. When I retired and decided to return to live in Canada, I sold them. No regrets.

[Steve 0080]

Limoles,In extended philosophy of so called "self defense" , I could provide millions of reasons to support my decision "



And this type thing does work...just realize, there are bad people in the world that don't care about their life and care much less for yours....

[choptop]

I have a couple and a permit to carry. Live in small town Wi, not a real need to carry, but then you never know. It puts a HUGE responsibility on you when you carry. Rules are not the same for me, as they are for an officer of the law, I would need to be beaten half to death before I could shoot the person beating me, I have a brother in law enforcement and support them, just saying.
I applied for my permit because I thought the government was having a brain fart in allowing us to conceal and carry and wanted to get mine before they came to their sences. lol
Put on a few pounds so my inside the belt is uncomfortable to carry and my job won't allow but when I shed the job and a few pounds I will carry more, because I can.:icon_lol:

[Cheesyryder]

No
Never felt like I needed one, thought that it would led to me using more aggressive behavior then intelligence to escape a situation

[Darren]

I'll be first , who will fulfill your curiosity .
NO - I don't own any , so I don't carry one .
Why ? - Because I DO NOT WANT TO !!!!!

My best defense weapon is my humor and no fear from anybody .
I was in many strange situations in Chechnya , South African Soweto , Rio de Janeiro , Harlem , South Philadelphia - you name it . My goofy attitudes and respect to fellow human bean made more friends , so were no enemies to be afraid off .
In extended philosophy of so called "self defense" , I could provide millions of reasons to support my decision .

Likewise I agree

[bigbird]

I should put taxfree4 to work looking up stats. He's very good at that.

I Googled and found this:

"Gallup polling from 2007 to 2012 found that gender, region of the country and marital status were some of the biggest predictors of whether an individual owned guns. In the South, 38 percent reported owning a gun, compared to 27 percent in the West or 21 percent in the Eastern U.S."

"There are by various estimates anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States — close to one firearm for every man, woman and child. But in point of fact, only a minority of Americans own guns."

"More than a third of Americans say they or someone in their household owns a gun."

So going by stats, it would seem that at least 1/3 of US forum members own a handgun.

[Sorcerer]

Mine were in the fishing boat when it sank. Now I just ware an empty holster.:stirthepot::039:

[shooter]

I don't own one. I would, but it seems everywhere I might want to shoot someone has a "guns banned on these premises" sign.

If they see it its not concealed. That's the secret

[shooter]

Odds are far greater when you own a handgun that you yourself will be shot. I am into everything that lowers my odds of being shot.

Who have you been talking to? Fienstien?

[cosborn]

Our government is talking 5 years for having one.

Chris

[timjoebob]

Nope. Don't own one.

Peace.

[Amipro]

Don't own a gun. Had my fill of them while wearing the "pickle suit" for 10 years.
I don't have anything against anyone who wants to own/carry one as long as they don't use it as a first strike measure. Just about anything can be used as a weapon to kill. Watch an episode of The Walking Dead.

[Retired Army]

I wasn't aware we had to own just one. :icon_frown: Now for the burning question. How many are purveyors of the one shot one kill discipline?

[hoglaw]

I own a bunch and always carry unless I'm going somewhere that's prohibitive.

I was a cop in one of the worst cities in the USA. After law school I was a prosecutor for awhile. I've dealt with the scum of our society for much of my adult life.

I spent 11 years on active duty and 17 in the US Army Reserves, so I've been well trained.

There are those in our society who are beyond salvage. They prey on the weak, elderly, and innocent. I don't intend to be one of their victims. Those who responded from other countries don't face the same problems we have. Sure, they have their share of bad guys, but we have entire generations of thieves, muggers, mental cases, and those with a sense that they'll take whatever they want from any likely victim.

If you're not trained and not of the right mind set you shouldn't carry. Some are wolves, some are sheep, some are sheep dogs. That's just the way things are.

[smokinjoe187]

Who have you been talking to? Fienstien?

lol
:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes:
thats one stUUUUUUPId woman

those who can do,those who don't will never understand,thats the great thing about being an american...and the reason i'm not a victim
and yes....i believe in gun control...i use both hands...

[hoglaw]

I own a bunch and always carry unless I'm going somewhere that's prohibitive.

I was a cop in one of the worst cities in the USA. After law school I was a prosecutor for awhile. I've dealt with the scum of our society for much of my adult life.

I spent 11 years on active duty and 17 in the US Army Reserves, so I've been well trained.

There are those in our society who are beyond salvage. They prey on the weak, elderly, and innocent. I don't intend to be one of their victims. Those who responded from other countries don't face the same problems we have. Sure, they have their share of bad guys, but we have entire generations of thieves, muggers, mental cases, and those with a sense that they'll take whatever they want from any likely victim.

If you're not trained and not of the right mind set you shouldn't carry. Some are wolves, some are sheep, some are sheep dogs. That's just the way things are.

[F6B1911]

Odds are far greater when you own a handgun that you yourself will be shot. I am into everything that lowers my odds of being shot.

Hmmm, not sure I read that anywhere, got a link to that statistic?
I've carried a firearm for many years, work at a gun range, shoot long guns, shoot trap, teach range safety, teach reloading, teach hunter safety.... Hell, I should be have been shot plenty of times by your statistic, correct?
... But I respect anyone's decision, carry or not, it's a personal thing.

[smokinjoe187]

I own a bunch and always carry unless I'm going somewhere that's prohibitive.

I was a cop in one of the worst cities in the USA. After law school I was a prosecutor for awhile. I've dealt with the scum of our society for much of my adult life.

I spent 11 years on active duty and 17 in the US Army Reserves, so I've been well trained.

There are those in our society who are beyond salvage. They prey on the weak, elderly, and innocent. I don't intend to be one of their victims. Those who responded from other countries don't face the same problems we have. Sure, they have their share of bad guys, but we have entire generations of thieves, muggers, mental cases, and those with a sense that they'll take whatever they want from any likely victim.

If you're not trained and not of the right mind set you shouldn't carry. Some are wolves, some are sheep, some are sheep dogs. That's just the way things are.

=1,well said....:yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::yes::y es::yes:

[opas ride]

In my younger years I suppose I never gave gun ownership any attention..Had a couple old 22 rifles that my Dad gave me and used them once in a while with my sons at a target range...My son-in-law is an ex-cop and helped me pick out a couple of pistols a while back and I have been trained how to use them...At my age now (75) and many of the useless young "punks" in our world today that prey on older people just cause they can, I will use my weapon, if I have to, to protect my wife and myself in the event I need too....Hope it NEVER happens, but in our society today it is very "scary" and dangerous at times......I am one of those that own a weapon but hope and pray I never have to use it except at the range!!!!

[choptop]

In my younger years I suppose I never gave gun ownership any attention..Had a couple old 22 rifles that my Dad gave me and used them once in a while with my sons at a target range...My son-in-law is an ex-cop and helped me pick out a couple of pistols a while back and I have been trained how to use them...At my age now (75) and many of the useless young "punks" in our world today that prey on older people just cause they can, I will use my weapon, if I have to, to protect my wife and myself in the event I need too....Hope it NEVER happens, but in our society today it is very "scary" and dangerous at times......I am one of those that own a weapon but hope and pray I never have to use it except at the range!!!!

:yes::yes:

[jaygollner]

When I do carry which isn't that often I carry a Glock Model 36 with a pierce +1 Grip extension. I have had a Concealed Carry License in Indiana for over 35 years. I have only needed a firearm once in all that time, and no shots were fired.
2781

[Kevbuckley333]

It is a well known statistic. law abiding people can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned but I'm going to aire towards lowering my risk. Source:http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html#.VQYMkNCsHqB


Hmmm, not sure I read that anywhere, got a link to that statistic?
I've carried a firearm for many years, work at a gun range, shoot long guns, shoot trap, teach range safety, teach reloading, teach hunter safety.... Hell, I should be have been shot plenty of times by your statistic, correct?
... But I respect anyone's decision, carry or not, it's a personal thing.

[bigbird]

Hey guys, please read the title of this thread again.

I wanted to know about anyone who DID NOT own a handgun and why not.

Please stick to the topic.

For those that can't, start a different thread please. Those replying here are hopefully replying to my original question.
What type of gun you own, how many guns you own, that the barrel is longer than your penis, please take that info somewhere else.

[Deer Slayer]

yes

[tinknocker]

I own a pistol for self defense I hope I never use it but am I prepared to face the consciences of protecting myself and my family ABSOLUTELY! For anyone who think it'll never happen let me ask you this...how safe would you feel right now in a little town you might have heard of called Ferguson Missouri?

[Denase]

Don't have one, don't want one. I do support the right to own one though.:icon_lol:

[bigbird]

don't want one

What's your reason for that?

[Denase]

I will be 58 in April. In all that time I have never had an instance where I needed one. Maybe I am good at avoiding those situations? But don't figure I need one now. Besides buying, maintaining, shooting for practice, would take gas money from my riding! I am not anti gun however. I will NOT say I won't have one at some point.

[Denase]

Funny after chastising to reply to your question of who does not own a hand gun, there are those that still tell you they have one. Makes you wonder.
I just bet that doesn't go over well. Run for cover they have guns!:crackup:

[bigbird]

Funny after chastising to reply to your question of who does not own a hand gun, there are those that still tell you they have one. Makes you wonder.
I just bet that doesn't go over well. Run for cover they have guns!:crackup:

It was pretty ridiculous.
My asking who doesn't own one started a deluge of guys who own one, what kind, blah blah blah.
Yes, it does make one wonder.
Freud would have a field day. It must be either phallic or oedipal or both.

[BIGLRY]

No, I don't own a hand gun. Why, cause the government won't let me. Why, because in 1968 I was caught and felony prosecuted by the state of Calif for two marijuana cigarettes, 1 1/2 grams total, sentenced to 5 yr probation, $500 fine and not allowed to own a hand gun ever, I was 18 years old, end of story. :301:

[bigbird]

No, I don't own a hand gun. Why, cause the government won't let me. Why, because in 1968 I was caught and felony prosecuted by the state of Calif for two marijuana cigarettes, 1 1/2 grams total, sentenced to 5 yr probation, $500 fine and not allowed to own a hand gun ever, I was 18 years old, end of story. :301:

Wow. Having some tokes makes you a threat to blow someone away with a gun. Insane logic.
If the gov't let you tomorrow, would you run right to the gun shop?

[shooter]

I wasn't aware we had to own just one. :icon_frown: Now for the burning question. How many are purveyors of the one shot one kill discipline?

That's why I practice Army. I believe in the 45ACP. A few big ones instead of a lot of small ones. Bullet technology has changed a lot of that . I still like a 45.

[shooter]

In my younger years I suppose I never gave gun ownersghip any attention..Had a couple old 22 rifles that my Dad gave me and used them once in a while with my sons at a target range...My son-in-law is an ex-cop and helped me pick out a couple of pistols a while back and I have been trained how to use them...At my age now (75) and many of the useless young "punks" in our world today that prey on older people just cause they can, I will use my weapon, if I have to, to protect my wife and myself in the event I need too....Hope it NEVER happens, but in our society today it is very "scary" and dangerous at times......I am one of those that own a weapon but hope and pray I never have to use it except at the range!!!!

Opas any God fearing responsible person should think like that. I would , in a perfect world never take another's life. By the same token , under the right circumstances I would not hesitate.

[shooter]

Sorry Bird. Didn't mean to thread jack. Got carried away.

[taxfree4]

Got in trouble in 1979, I was 18, which stopped me from going into the Navy in 1980 also, but if could I'd get one tomorrow. Heckler and Koch HK45 for running to the grocery store, Taurus Judge 4510PD-3B (fires 410 shell and 45 one to knock em down one for dessert) for going to church, fits nice in the suit, AR-15 just for the hell of it, Benelli Super Black Eagle just to get me started. Why, you ask Big Bird because guns are like motorcycles, there's not one that's going to give you everything you want. Plus I have 2 ex-wives, both Sicilian.

[Limoles]

If you don't want to eat spaghetti with delicious mushrooms , I would be afraid too .

[BIGLRY]

Wow. Having some tokes makes you a threat to blow someone away with a gun. Insane logic.
If the gov't let you tomorrow, would you run right to the gun shop?You asked if "Anyone NOT own a Handgun" which I do not, as a convicted felon I can't own one, but my late wife legally owned many, we taught our two daughters at a young age safe weapons practices and both including my wife have hunted all our lives. My brothers as well as my late father and mother were gun owners and I was raised with guns in the house all my life.
I served in the US army an earned a marksman badge and am quite proficient in the use of small arms, but I could still not own a hand gun then or now, but I do own a 357 caliber high powered air rifle that will stop any anything in North America or intruding into my home.
https://www.crosman.com/airguns/air-rifles/bulldog-synthetic


I am 64 years of age with only that one black mark on my record, I am also a legally registered user of medical marijuana in Calif. and legally grow my own year round. I legally keep a lb under lock and key in storage at all times, but can't own a handgun.
Strange, what took away my right to own a gun is perfectly legal now, but I still can't own a handgun.
I have access to anything I might want to shoot and have plenty of friends who own & are willing to carry firearms to and from the range for me to shoot if I ask.
I go to the range regularly to punch paper to keep sharp and also to sight-in my high powered air rifles before hunting season... so would I run right to the gun shop if it were legal for me to own a hand gun? NO I have no need, ya see I can't own a hand gun, but it ain't against the law for me to shoot and carry a high powered air rifle for which I don't even need a cc permit. :301:

[Limoles]

I'll never understand such a complicated interpretations of Second Amendment and witness its variation in different States . I can only say - guns are dangerous toys and design for killing . I also learned , that most innocent people die from guns , even they have "rights to defend themselves" . You tell me , how it works ?

[taxfree4]

If you don't want to eat spaghetti with delicious mushrooms , I would be afraid too .
I found the only two Sicilian girls that couldn't cook, what are the odds. Anyway, my father always kept a loaded gun in the house and one in his car and we knew not to even think of going near it.

[shooter]

Tax you're so mean you don't need a gun.:joke::joke:

[taxfree4]

Tax you're so mean you don't need a gun.

C'mon, it was those 2 spawns of the she-devil I was married to that made me mean. Everyone says how long do you want to live - 3 days after they both die to go to the wake and the funerals and be the first one to throw the first shovel of dirt on the casket but I'm not bitter. Anyway, let's get back on point or Big Bird will have my ass and Phantom will suspend me for a week for hijacking the thread. My favorite gun is the Heckler and Koch 45, man that thing is sweet. As far as Article 2 of the Bill of Rights it was written in English common law and all regulated in "well regulated militia" means is "well functioning" meaning they can shoot. And a militia, again in English common law, was any able bodied man, so any able bodied man that can shoot can exercise the inherit freedom noted in the Article, wrongly referred to as an Amendment.

(I did not hijack the thread) - disclaimer

[hoglaw]

C'mon, it was those 2 spawns of the she-devil I was married to that made me mean. Everyone says how long do you want to live - 3 days after they both die to go to the wake and the funerals and be the first one to throw the first shovel of dirt on the casket but I'm not bitter. Anyway, let's get back on point or Big Bird will have my ass and Phantom will suspend me for a week for hijacking the thread. My favorite gun is the Heckler and Koch 45, man that thing is sweet. As far as Article 2 of the Bill of Rights it was written in English common law and all regulated in "well regulated militia" means is "well functioning" meaning they can shoot. And a militia, again in English common law, was any able bodied man, so any able bodied man that can shoot can exercise the inherit freedom noted in the Article, wrongly referred to as an Amendment.

(I did not hijack the thread) - disclaimer

I'm never far from a gun...or the US Constitution. My copy says there are Articles I thru VII, and Amendments I thru XXVII. I completely agree with your interpretation of Amendment II, but wonder about calling it an Article.

[taxfree4]

I'm never far from a gun...or the US Constitution. My copy says there are Articles I thru VII, and Amendments I thru XXVII. I completely agree with your interpretation of Amendment II, but wonder about calling it an Article.

Because that is what the founders who wrote it called it. If you look at a copy of the original document they are denoted as Articles not Amendments. An amendment by its very nature amends something already written, however, the first ten entries on the Bill of Rights were original writings, they weren't amending anything. After the first ten original there were succeeding amendments. There is a case out of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, I'll try and look for it, that says just that.

(I am not hijacking the thread) - disclaimer

[Limoles]

Well - there is no solid answer explaining my question .
But I recall George Carlin's quote , still resonating , when I asked him the same. He reposted :

"America is a museum of mass confusion , where written common law for all can be twisted only by lawyers , which by the way is serving them very well , so this was the purpose of writing it"...

[hoglaw]

Because that is what the founders who wrote it called it. If you look at a copy of the original document they are denoted as Articles not Amendments. An amendment by its very nature amends something already written, however, the first ten entries on the Bill of Rights were original writings, they weren't amending anything. After the first ten original there were succeeding amendments. There is a case out of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, I'll try and look for it, that says just that.

(I am not hijacking the thread) - disclaimer

Thanks. I'd never heard that before.

[fxdl2051]

I have a really aggresive philodendron that I keep for personal protection.

[vstar09]

Kershaw is all I need.......

[Bruce B]

I own a bunch and always carry unless I'm going somewhere that's prohibitive.

I was a cop in one of the worst cities in the USA. After law school I was a prosecutor for awhile. I've dealt with the scum of our society for much of my adult life.

I spent 11 years on active duty and 17 in the US Army Reserves, so I've been well trained.

There are those in our society who are beyond salvage. They prey on the weak, elderly, and innocent. I don't intend to be one of their victims. Those who responded from other countries don't face the same problems we have. Sure, they have their share of bad guys, but we have entire generations of thieves, muggers, mental cases, and those with a sense that they'll take whatever they want from any likely victim.

If you're not trained and not of the right mind set you shouldn't carry. Some are wolves, some are sheep, some are sheep dogs. That's just the way things are.




+1

[smokinjoe187]

Kershaw is all I need.......

+1 kershaw.....and my sp101,rock island 45....

[Limoles]

I own a bunch and always carry unless I'm going somewhere that's prohibitive.

I was a cop in one of the worst cities in the USA. After law school I was a prosecutor for awhile. I've dealt with the scum of our society for much of my adult life.

I spent 11 years on active duty and 17 in the US Army Reserves, so I've been well trained.

There are those in our society who are beyond salvage. They prey on the weak, elderly, and innocent. I don't intend to be one of their victims. Those who responded from other countries don't face the same problems we have. Sure, they have their share of bad guys, but we have entire generations of thieves, muggers, mental cases, and those with a sense that they'll take whatever they want from any likely victim.

If you're not trained and not of the right mind set you shouldn't carry. Some are wolves, some are sheep, some are sheep dogs. That's just the way things are.

What fascinate me ( as being a foreigner ) in this country is fact , that System itself create environment for criminals and fight with them in the same time . Did you ever think about it ? Why in USA incarceration rate
per capita is THE BIGGEST IN THE WORLD ( and still is growing ) ?

[fxdl2051]

What fascinate me ( as being a foreigner ) in this country is fact , that System itself create environment for criminals and fight with them in the same time . Did you ever think about it ? Why in USA incarceration rate
per capita is THE BIGGEST IN THE WORLD ( and still is growing ) ?

The best way to destabilize a society is from within. If you have an active criminal element that acts as an efficient social controller while at the same time fragmenting a society. It's the same game plan gov'ts use to subvert populations, regardless of the flag.

[Limoles]

The best way to destabilize a society is from within. If you have an active criminal element that acts as an efficient social controller while at the same time fragmenting a society. It's the same game plan gov'ts use to subvert populations, regardless of the flag.


So , it means - waiving the flag above can be called "American Exceptionalism" ?
Looks like is no obvious solution to cure all System , but giving chances to all by education and fairness would help a lot . The problem is , nobody wants , or even try to start this process . Many countries did it already and surprisingly ... succeeded . Ironically , their flags wave at the bottom of the list .

[hoglaw]

So , it means - waiving the flag above can be called "American Exceptionalism" ?
Looks like is no obvious solution to cure all System , but giving chances to all by education and fairness would help a lot . The problem is , nobody wants , or even try to start this process . Many countries did it already and surprisingly ... succeeded . Ironically , their flags wave at the bottom of the list .

"American Exceptionalism" has existed since 1776, and saved Europe's ass at least three times (WWI, WWII, and the Cold War).

If you believe the opportunity for education doesn't exist in this country you're wrong, or at least misinformed.

"Fairness"? Everyone is given an equal opportunity. Yeah, some have a head start, but the possibility exists...but you have to work for it. Whenever I hear the word "fair" I think of that response that "fair" is a place you go to eat cotton candy, go on rides and step in monkey poop. No one was ever promised life would be fair. Everyone in America is promised an opportunity, but it's up to you to get off your lazy butt and take advantage of what's out there.

Most of America's problems today can be squarely traced to LBJ's "Great Society". People are paid not to work, or even look for work. Most of America's poor live a life that would be considered luxury elsewhere in the world.

Most small countries of the world are comprised of a homogenius (sp?) society. The great melting pot is made up of people from all over the world, and while this makes us unique, it does create some problems.

There are those in our government who want us to be more European-like. Then there are those of us who are individuals and are happy to have it stay that way.

Don't get me started on the demographics of our incarcerated population...Phantom will ban me.

[Limoles]

"American Exceptionalism" has existed since 1776, and saved Europe's ass at least three times (WWI, WWII, and the Cold War).

If you believe the opportunity for education doesn't exist in this country you're wrong, or at least misinformed.

"Fairness"? Everyone is given an equal opportunity. Yeah, some have a head start, but the possibility exists...but you have to work for it. Whenever I hear the word "fair" I think of that response that "fair" is a place you go to eat cotton candy, go on rides and step in monkey poop. No one was ever promised life would be fair. Everyone in America is promised an opportunity, but it's up to you to get off your lazy butt and take advantage of what's out there.

Most of America's problems today can be squarely traced to LBJ's "Great Society". People are paid not to work, or even look for work. Most of America's poor live a life that would be considered luxury elsewhere in the world.

Most small countries of the world are comprised of a homogenius (sp?) society. The great melting pot is made up of people from all over the world, and while this makes us unique, it does create some problems.

There are those in our government who want us to be more European-like. Then there are those of us who are individuals and are happy to have it stay that way.

Don't get me started on the demographics of our incarcerated population...Phantom will ban me.


This is not about "believes" , but the facts and reality . And that's the reason , why you must sleep with the gun attached to your ideas . If you are afraid of comparisons ( and Phantom's reaction ), send me PM and I'll be glad to provide supplements to your limited vision and subconscious .

[motozeke]

I bought a Taurus .38 Special after the L.A. Riots because I wanted something that I could carry on me if society went to shat. I should have just waited a few days to get over the fear; I've never been glad that I bought it. Last year I turned the ammo in to the local P.D. because it was old and I haven't fired any rounds for almost 20 years. The gun is unloaded and stored away up in my closet. I wouldn't even consider carrying out in public unless I satisfied myself that I had ample training to carry and use it, and then I'd be paranoid that I would end up injuring someone unintentionally or just plain losing it somewhere.

I'm not afraid of guns per se, I've done plenty of shooting, I just seriously question the utility of private gun ownership. Not whether or not it should be *legal*, just whether or not it's *smart* for most people.

[srt8-in-largo]

Just a little known fact of Florida law... no paper work is needed for person to person firearm sales... local ads always have things for sale.

I hope some of you guys with past issues can use that to your advantage.

[bigbird]

I'm not afraid of guns per se, I've done plenty of shooting, I just seriously question the utility of private gun ownership. Not whether or not it should be *legal*, just whether or not it's *smart* for most people.

My sentiments also.
If Canada legalized handguns tomorrow, I would never want to own one, or two, or dozens as some here do.
I should pose the next question.
For those that do own handguns, how many times have you had to use them to protect yourself or your family?
That's what I thought, likely never.

[53driver]

...I should pose the next question.
For those that do own handguns, how many times have you had to use them to protect yourself or your family?
That's what I thought, likely never.

Whoa there, chickadee....
Twice. Both times were very uncomfortable, but the wife and I are well trained in home defense and the kids reacted perfectly - as per their training.
Details can be heard after a bit of tequila at Franklin.

[bigbird]

Whoa there, chickadee....
Twice. Both times were very uncomfortable, but the wife and I are well trained in home defense and the kids reacted perfectly - as per their training.
Details can be heard after a bit of tequila at Franklin.

Did you shoot a home invader, or a squirrel nattering outside your bedroom window?
shot his footshot his foot

I'm a funny guy!

[53driver]

Did you shoot a home invader, or a squirrel nattering outside your bedroom window?
shot his footshot his foot

I'm a funny guy!

...at Franklin...

[bigbird]

...at Franklin...

I wish. That's thousands of miles for me.
Can we meet, say, in Minnesota?

[53driver]

I wish. That's thousands of miles for me.
Can we meet, say, in Minnesota?

Aye, 'tis.
FaceTime or Skype then.
I thought you were closer to Toronto, in Ontario. Didn't put together that Winnipeg is in Manitoba. Sorry for my geography ignorance.

[bigbird]

. Sorry for my geography ignorance.

Sorry for my handgun ignorance

[Limoles]

Sorry for not being born in USA , but that's OK ...
Unfortunately it disqualifies me only from getting to the White House .
... and that's is OK too :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

[smokinjoe187]

Sorry for not being born in USA , but that's OK ...
Unfortunately it disqualifies me only from getting to the White House .
... and that's is OK too :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:




we all have to love where we live,every one has opinions,here we can share and not judge...
i got to go clean my guns now...peace!!

[hiflyer]

I wish. That's thousands of miles for me.
Can we meet, say, in Minnesota?

1539 miles, two days riding. It's 1050 from my house and I did the trip in one day going out, one coming back. I think you should start making plans now.

[bigbird]

1539 miles, two days riding. It's 1050 from my house and I did the trip in one day going out, one coming back. I think you should start making plans now.

I'll meet you in Oklahoma City and we'll ride there together.
I don't carry a handgun, so I hope that's not an issue.
But I do have a knife.
And a tool kit.
And ABS.

[hiflyer]

I'll meet you in Oklahoma City and we'll ride there together.
I don't carry a handgun, so I hope that's not an issue.
But I do have a knife.
And a tool kit.
And ABS.

Come on! I'll head north and we can cut across. Leave the knife, this is what happened a couple of weeks ago. I don't have ABS, but my wife tells me I have a good line of BS.

[shooter]

Sorry for not being born in USA , but that's OK ...
Unfortunately it disqualifies me only from getting to the White House .
... and that's is OK too :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

Hey Limo , don't get down brother. It didn't stop the guy that's in there now.

[shooter]

My sentiments also.
If Canada legalized handguns tomorrow, I would never want to own one, or two, or dozens as some here do.
I should pose the next question.
For those that do own handguns, how many times have you had to use them to protect yourself or your family?
That's what I thought, likely never.

Hey Bird. We , as gun crazy Americans have a saying. It is better to have it , and not need it , than to need it , and not have it. This is in no way a thread jack.

[bigbird]

Hey Bird. We , as gun crazy Americans have a saying. It is better to have it , and not need it , than to need it , and not have it. This is in no way a thread jack.

I agree it's better to have it should you need it.
But, and it's a BIG but, too many idiots have it and don't know how or when to use it.
That's the part that petrifies me.

[shooter]

Bird I have to tell you. Americans that legally own and possess and carry s handgun are some of the most responsible people on the planet. You rarely hear of one of them having to use his or her firearm. Most of us have enough sense to avoid that type of situation. Its not the wild west down here. People that illegally possess a firearm account for the trouble.

[taxfree4]

Bird I have to tell you. Americans that legally own and possess and carry s handgun are some of the most responsible people on the planet. You rarely hear of one of them having to use his or her firearm. Most of us have enough sense to avoid that type of situation. Its not the wild west down here. People that illegally possess a firearm account for the trouble.

Shooter,
Remember that Big Bird is from Canada, you know the people who are still beholden to the Royal Family. I bet you can pick those ears off with a Mannlicher Carcano at 500 yards with a 40 mph wind in the pouring rain. Was that too harsh? RELEASE THE HOUNDS!

[bigbird]

People that illegally possess a firearm account for the trouble.

My impression was that anyone can go down to any sporting goods store, fill out a form, and in 1 week or so pick up their approved handgun without any kind of training or practical exam. Is that not true?
If not, please tell me how so many people can own handguns in the US.

[53driver]

My impression was that anyone can go down to any sporting goods store, fill out a form, and in 1 week or so pick up their approved handgun without any kind of training or practical exam. Is that not true?
If not, please tell me how so many people can own handguns in the US.

...not exactly....

[F6B1911]

My impression was that anyone can go down to any sporting goods store, fill out a form, and in 1 week or so pick up their approved handgun without any kind of training or practical exam. Is that not true?
If not, please tell me how so many people can own handguns in the US.

In Michigan, law abiding citizens with a CCW license can go into the sporting goods store, show their license and walk out with a new firearm.
In a "Shall Issue" state, everyone who qualifies shall be issued a license, I believe there are only a few thing that will stop an issue, mental illness, felony conviction, restraining order.
Not saying that making the effort to go through the process of obtaining a CCW eliminates the bad apples,
...but I'd like to see some factual statistics on crimes committed with a firearm, those who have a firearm legally vs. those who do not?

If you do not have a CCW license, there is a waiting period.

[bigbird]

...not exactly....


That doesn't clarify much for me.
Am I still wrong?
I need to be corrected so I don't carry forward with an incorrect attitude about why it is so easy for any US citizen who isn't already a felon to legally own a handgun.
My thinking is handgun registry, but that would go over with about as much popularity as Obamacare.

[F6B1911]

That doesn't clarify much for me.
Am I still wrong?
I need to be corrected so I don't carry forward with an incorrect attitude about why it is so easy for any US citizen who isn't already a felon to legally own a handgun.
My thinking is handgun registry, but that would go over with about as much popularity as Obamacare.

I think we can clear up your query with one simple sentence....

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

[53driver]

That doesn't clarify much for me.
Am I still wrong?
I need to be corrected so I don't carry forward with an incorrect attitude about why it is so easy for any US citizen who isn't already a felon to legally own a handgun.
My thinking is handgun registry, but that would go over with about as much popularity as Obamacare.

Copy. Sorry. Was called to supper.

Anyway, the specifics vary by state.
But I 'think' that at a bare minimum, a phone call is made to the national "see-if-this-guy-is-a-bad-person-records-keeping-people" and your status as a felon, or whatever else would keep you from legally owning a weapon, is discovered or cleared.
Some states have waiting periods for handguns and/or long guns, others do not.
Some states recognize a CCW permit during the purchase - to different degrees of making the transaction go smoother - while others do not.
It truly "depends" upon which state you reside, and F6B1911 is spot on.
So...I guess there is no "complete" answer, unless you get state specific.

[F6B1911]

But I 'think' that at a bare minimum, a phone call is made to the national "see-if-this-guy-is-a-bad-person-records-keeping-people" and your status as a felon, or whatever else would keep you from

The phone call is a NICs check, National Instant Criminal Background Check System

[53driver]

Here is a picture of a .22 caliber, very ergonomically correct, professional match shooting pistol:
12466
In 49 states, it is recognized as a "match grade weapon" and treated as such.
In California? It is legislated as an "assault weapon."

Anyone out there know why?

[F6B1911]

Anyone out there know why?

Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, et al

[53driver]

The phone call is a NICs check, National Instant Criminal Background Check System

Thank you sir. I think I actually knew that now that I see it....

[53driver]

Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, et al

Aye...but why was the Benelli chosen as an assault weapon as opposed to a Supermatic Citation (another match grade .22)?
12467

[F6B1911]

Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, et al

.. or if you want a legal answer..

SENATE BILL 23 ASSAULT WEAPON CHARACTERISTICS
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2

[shooter]

Here is a picture of a .22 caliber, very ergonomically correct, professional match shooting pistol:
12466
In 49 states, it is recognized as a "match grade weapon" and treated as such.
In California? It is legislated as an "assault weapon."

Anyone out there know why?

Cause they are running short of water??

[53driver]

.. or if you want a legal answer..

SENATE BILL 23 ASSAULT WEAPON CHARACTERISTICS
http://oag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/genchar2

Yup. 4D.

4. A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
A. A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
B. (B) A second handgrip.
C. A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
D. The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

Since the magazine goes in forward of the trigger guard, it's an "assault weapon."

[shooter]

Bird , in my gun buying career I have bought and sold maybe 2 or 3 hundred guns. In Missouri I can walk into any gun store pick out a firearm , they will call in a background check and I will be approved and walk out with the gun. If you are a first time buyer there will be a three day waiting period. If you can't pass a background check they will not sell it to you. Like if you are a convicted felon. All guns used by felons to commit a crime have been obtained illegally. If you are a convicted felon it us illegal to own or possess a gun. I will tell you this , the more guns you buy and sell , the more times that your name is run through the national database , the quicker and easier it is to buy a gun. If you are a really active gun buyer I think they put a star next to your name.

[bigbird]

Shooter & 53Driver, thank you for your explanations.

[53driver]

Shooter & 53Driver, thank you for your explanations.

No worries. I know it's not as tight and bundled as you were hoping for, but, hey, it's America.

[srt8-in-largo]

That doesn't clarify much for me.
Am I still wrong?
I need to be corrected so I don't carry forward with an incorrect attitude about why it is so easy for any US citizen who isn't already a felon to legally own a handgun.
My thinking is handgun registry, but that would go over with about as much popularity as Obamacare.

What exactly would a registry accomplish?

[bigbird]

What exactly would a registry accomplish?

We had a registry in Canada for long guns and firearms. It was hoped that it could be used to differentiate between legally and illicitly obtained weapons. It worked, but it cost a fortune to administer and maintain, and was eventually scrapped due to privacy issues. Anyone with a computer and gun serial # could find out who and where the registered owner lived and stored the gun.

If a gun was used criminally, the owner could easily be located, and held responsible. It was hoped that it would be a deterrent for criminals illegally obtaining weapons.

Most of our illegal handguns are obtained by smuggling from the US. There just aren't enough registered and legal owners of handguns in Canada to supply the criminals.
Fines (and jail time) are huge for anyone smuggling a gun into Canada, be it US or Canadian citizens.

[Limoles]

Hey Limo , don't get down brother. It didn't stop the guy that's in there now.

What a bright idea !!!! You're right . It's time for revolutionary thinking ! Instead accepting lies and delivery of empty promises with all kind of BS to confused public , allowing fear to overcome our well being , which pulverize true values among my fellow Americans , I'll be the first , who shall make real changes ! If I'll be elected , it will make all Americans laughing and finally criminals will give up and surrender to my New Rules . Imagine being happy ? Say no to bipartisan status quo , leading us to nowhere ! No more bullets flying over our heads !!! Vote for Silly Freddy Flintstone instead .

ps.
Give me another bottle of whiskey - my is empty already .

[srt8-in-largo]

I've never been able to see the rationale.

It's what I call a "bubble" idea... sounds good in a bubble (to some), but doesn't work in the real world; the burden, onus, and downsides are carried by legal owners while having little to no effect on restricting the idiots.

[bigbird]

I've never been able to see the rationale.

It's what I call a "bubble" idea... sounds good in a bubble (to some), but doesn't work in the real world; the burden, onus, and downsides are carried by legal owners while having little to no effect on restricting the idiots.

That's what happened with the registry up here. It's history now.

[valkmc]

My impression was that anyone can go down to any sporting goods store, fill out a form, and in 1 week or so pick up their approved handgun without any kind of training or practical exam. Is that not true?
If not, please tell me how so many people can own handguns in the US.

Not in a sporting goods store, but I once walked into a gun show and bought a hand gun from a "private citizen" The private citizen was there almost every month with a large table of guns which he sold. It took about 25 minutes for me to walk out with the gun.

I don't carry often but can if I feel the need. I have no problem with people who carry or don't I just don't feel everyone should have the right too. Lots of mentally sick individuals have bought guns legally under various state rules, as long as a person is sane they should have the right to have as many guns as they want.

[Limoles]

Is it true , that in Texas ( or perhaps some other State ) ANYBODY can buy w/o permit "whatever heart desire" ?

[hoglaw]

Is it true , that in Texas ( or perhaps some other State ) ANYBODY can buy w/o permit "whatever heart desire" ?

It is true in most states that there is no "permit" required to purchase a firearm; the exceptions being states in the northeast and California. There may be restrictions, but no permit required. Read the Second Amendment.

[53driver]

Just came across this.......pissed me right off.
Setup a false store.
Hire an actor - the dude from Grand Theft Auto 5.
Scare the crap out of anyone entering the store - targeting first time buyers - from ever owning a gun.

But MORE importantly, it conveys the message that "having a gun will turn a normal, law-abiding citizen into an un-responsible citizen and potentially a killer."
So PO'd I could chew up nails and spit thumbtacks.

http://bearingarms.com/desperation-gun-control-group-lies-gun-buyers-attempt-sell-fear/

[Limoles]

It is true in most states that there is no "permit" required to purchase a firearm; the exceptions being states in the northeast and California. There may be restrictions, but no permit required. Read the Second Amendment.

As I mentioned before , each State has different interpretation of the Second Amendment . I also know , that in Texas you can buy any weapon without checking your background , however I can be wrong . Read NJ law instead :

"Purchasing a Firearm in New Jersey & Obtaining a Firearm ID Card"

The process starts with your local police department. By law you must complete a form STS-33 (the application), be fingerprinted, and fill out a Consent To Mental Health Records Check from. Two references must be provided. Some police departments require that the references are not related or living with you. Please see our page on Operation Establish Compliance for information on how to deal with police departments requesting additional paperwork, interviews, and references to what the NJ State Police guidelines require.

Once the forms are complete and your references return their questionnaires, you should be issued your Firearms Purcharser's ID card within 30 days. Many citizens report that it may take up to 6 months or longer to receive your FID card depending on the police department you filed with.

After you are issued your card, you may purchase a long gun (shotgun, rifle, black powder rifle, or BB gun). If you wish to purchase a hand gun (including a BB handgun), you must apply for a Permit to Purchase a Handgun. These permits are only good for 90 days, but may be extended an additional 90 days for a total of no more than 180 at the discretion of your local police chief. You may only purchase one hand gun per month (every 30 days). Each hand gun requires its own permit. The application for a Permit to Purchase a Handgun is the same as applying for your initial Firearms ID card except finger prints are not required.

So , tell me , how it works in your State , or MOST ( which you've indicate ) ?

[hoglaw]

As I mentioned before , each State has different interpretation of the Second Amendment . I also know , that in Texas you can buy any weapon without checking your background , however I can be wrong . Read NJ law instead :

"Purchasing a Firearm in New Jersey & Obtaining a Firearm ID Card"

The process starts with your local police department. By law you must complete a form STS-33 (the application), be fingerprinted, and fill out a Consent To Mental Health Records Check from. Two references must be provided. Some police departments require that the references are not related or living with you. Please see our page on Operation Establish Compliance for information on how to deal with police departments requesting additional paperwork, interviews, and references to what the NJ State Police guidelines require.

Once the forms are complete and your references return their questionnaires, you should be issued your Firearms Purcharser's ID card within 30 days. Many citizens report that it may take up to 6 months or longer to receive your FID card depending on the police department you filed with.

After you are issued your card, you may purchase a long gun (shotgun, rifle, black powder rifle, or BB gun). If you wish to purchase a hand gun (including a BB handgun), you must apply for a Permit to Purchase a Handgun. These permits are only good for 90 days, but may be extended an additional 90 days for a total of no more than 180 at the discretion of your local police chief. You may only purchase one hand gun per month (every 30 days). Each hand gun requires its own permit. The application for a Permit to Purchase a Handgun is the same as applying for your initial Firearms ID card except finger prints are not required.

So , tell me , how it works in your State , or MOST ( which you've indicate ) ?

Reread the Second Amendment. "...shall not be infringed." and your question re: permit. A "permit" is permission. The argument in cases where this has been litigated is that a "permit" in an infringement. I never practiced, and attempted to never visit, in New Jersey, so I don't know. But the fact that you have to seek permission from the state for permission seems to be contrary to the Constitution.

In general terms, whenever a buyer wants to buy a firearm from an ATF licensed dealer he must show he is not in a prohibited class (felon, mental defective, etc). This is done by a background check.

For face-to-face transactions between citizens of the same state there is, in most states, no checks, no permits, no government interference...and no record.

Our Constitution does not grant citizens rights, it restricts what government can do. This is contrary to systems of government in most of the world where the sovereign (king, dictator, committee) tells the citizens what will be allowed. Firearms are just one of those rights.

There have been many attempts over the years by various government entities to restrict rights. Most have failed, but some are still in effect. Litigation takes time. For example: FDR imprisoned thousands of loyal Japanese-Americans during WW2. This was clearly beyond the dictates of the Constitution. I doubt our government would try this today with Muslim-Americans. For many years the city government of Washington, DC, refused to allow firearm ownership by residents. This was recently addressed by the courts and the city was found to be in violation of the Constitution.

California, the petulant liberal child, has enacted some very restrictive laws in recent years. There is on-going litigation to address these issues.

[Limoles]

I don't know , how to answer to your explanations . I never applied for weapon's "permit" or any other certificate related to its license's restrictions - simply because I DID'T NEED one . Despite legistlative differences and interpretations of Second Amendment in individually listed US States , my initial question was addressed to those , who could possibly know Texas's practices of buying firearms straight from the shelf , without presenting any documents . Probably there are more States , which shall follow such a unrestricted sales , but it has no impact on my lucking desires . In Army I was "straight shooter" , many times awarded for various abilities , labeling necessary usefulness in case of foreign aggression agains my country , but since then , buying any firearm for private purpose never crossed my mind . Even knowing the world's history very well and nonsense of any wars , I can only assure you , that in only time of any possible thread towards US Union and when our freedom and dignity might be in jeopardy , I'll be the first , who will grab available weapon and fight for its purpose . It's something , which we all have coded in our genes .

[terrydj]

The land down under has most excelent rules and regulations when it comes to guns and gun ownership.
When working as a pro???? I carried a Ruger Pro .38cal
I have had a licence to carry concealed (In Australia)
If I carried now I'd carry a semi Automatic Pistol, 10/12 shot in .22cal. 6 Mags
Ammunition would be: Aguila Super Maximum Ammunition 22 Long Rifle 30 Grain Hyper Velocity, around 1700Fps.
A kevlar vest wont stop it.
When working previously as a Pro??? I wore a Ceramic Vest.
Kevlars only for movies:icon_cool:

[Limoles]

All Swiss Citizens in age of 20 - 30 who are able to carry any weapon , form National ( Militia ) Army , constantly trained , prepared for combat and able to fight in self defensive cause . Despite popularly accepted guns possession , none of them is permitted to keep ammunition at home. Even though , the crime in Switzerland is very minimal . I just wander - if such a law was adopted in USA , today America would be deserted already , leaving the only traces of home made bullets behind .

So , reading my question above , discussion still is open .

[terrydj]

I was just wondering???
Seeing as the United States Constitution says that only Protestants have the right right to keep and bear arms???
Is it only Protestants that own guns in America?????
Or have they changed that with amendments as well????

[Limoles]

Aaaaaah, religion...perhaps mankind's dumbest invention.

[srt8-in-largo]

No... religion isn't a factor.

[erazor55]

+1

+1

[racer]

I don't care what side of the Zimmerman case you fall on...but do you think, if he could would he change his decision considering all the changes in his life?

Depends. If he was truly getting his head bashed into the earth... I suspect he'd do it again.

I don't know about you, but I would only be able to take getting my head bashed so many times.

The next contact to the head may kill you.

I don't ever want to experience that feeling. Will he stop before killing me?

No one HAS to protect themselves. Most find it perfectly accepable to be a potential victim. Some WANT to protect themselves. The defense of YOUR life only has to occur once. Everyone hopes they made the right decision.

[stroguy]

Is there anyone here that does not have a fire extinguisher in their abode? If not....why? You probably will never need it. Here in Texas we follow all the rules the big fed man makes us abide by. It's state legislatures that infringe your rights with ideas rarely supported by fact but by emotion and fear.

I knew a guy that kept poisonous snakes in his house.....google and yahoo never had a study that supported his higher chance of being bitten by a poisonous snake. Strange.

I follow the law, so don't bother looking in my window. Freedom has certain risks.

[terrydj]

No... religion isn't a factor.

Your constitution says it is
But it has probably been amended out????
Just like the part that says Big Mac's and Chocolate Shakes must be healthy:icon_cool:

[grendl]

To answer the original question of this thread, no I do not carry and though it seems to be close to time to revisit that decision I have never had a need to. I grew up in and have lived briefly in places that most would not dare to go through, would drive 5 miles out of the way to avoid and I never carried.
I relied on my wits and later in life my trained ability to defend myself without a pistol.
Those years taught me that the more people with guns,the more people will get shot. For little to nothing.
As I have gotten older I realize regrettably that I am not as quick or strong as I was in my youth and with the situation in this country going to hell I think about it more.
A couple of comments,How we interpret the constitution is a matter of convenience. "Well regulated Militia" had no intent in old English or new to mean "anybody that can shoot". "Well regulated" hasn't changed definition.
Another referring to Zimmerman.He approached that kid for no reason. He called the cops who told him to back off ,but he didn't. So the kid was completely innocent of any wrong doing and Zimmerman approached him anyway ,then got his ass kicked and relied on what had made him powerful(in his own mind) to kill the kid for nothing.Yeah he needed to defend himself ,but he started the altercation. How does that play?
And there's my problem,I am black,I wear hoodies when it's cool as my head is bald.As would any thinking person,if you come up to me on my walk to 7/11(as I do for exercise) I will do my best to back you off verbally and if it gets physical I am the one who gets shot? Let's take race out of it gentlemen -how would you respond. Not hijacking the thread that's a done deal ,but it gets referred to as a reason to carry...and still I dont.Would I carry to defend myself against the kid or Zimmerman?
Terry no ,our constitution expressly forbids religion and Government..but even those explicit words have fallen to interpretation of those who would profit from our division.
Your right to carry I fully support but I have run into too many with legal guns that make me shudder.
Whats really funny is last I checked,more people were killed by baseball bats....Dont carry one of those either..

[Limoles]

Very smart recapitulation ...

[srt8-in-largo]

Oh boy... we have a can of worms open now.

The Martin case will NEVER bring harmony or cohesion or agreement; different camps see it in different lights and that's just not gonna change... discussing it only serves to fire people up and separate them further.

[Steve 0080]

Grendl...well written!


There are certain groups that are judged with the concept that if one is bad there all bad, i.e.. blacks, police, lawyers... Unless you are in/from this group one can not understand how that life is led. Hoodies, and the like have been ruined as much as the rainbow has. My query on whether "Z" would do it over was one that was used to cause thought. The ownership of guns does not make the owner a killer. Can it, in the right situation make you a killer, yes. With the USA having more guns that the rest of the world, you would think we would all be dead. One simple fact that the silly liberals cannot get thru their heads is....wait for it...if guns where outlawed, then only outlaws would have guns. :stirthepot:

[bigbird]

One simple fact that the silly liberals cannot get thru their heads is....wait for it...if guns where outlawed, then only outlaws would have guns. :stirthepot:

The can of worms is again opened.
Only the police have handguns here.
The very few handguns in the possession of criminals are quickly confiscated and destroyed the second the outlaws are prosecuted.
The only source of guns for the criminals is from the USA, those being smuggled into our country.

Criminals here rely mostly on knives and the occasional sawed off shotgun.
Our low death rate from violent crime reflects that.
If the USA banned handguns for everyone but law enforcement, nothing would change for you for at least 2 more generations.

[smokinjoe187]

The can of worms is again opened.
Only the police have handguns here.
The very few handguns in the possession of criminals are quickly confiscated and destroyed the second the outlaws are prosecuted.
The only source of guns for the criminals is from the USA, those being smuggled into our country.

Criminals here rely mostly on knives and the occasional sawed off shotgun.
Our low death rate from violent crime reflects that.
If the USA banned handguns for everyone but law enforcement, nothing would change for you for at least 2 more generations.

i fail to understand why this is on this board....yes we have guns....end of story.....
we do not live in a fairy tale world....
bad people do bad things
canada has a population or 35,344,962
the us population 318.9 million
you do the math,its not hard...
there are BAD people here
guns keep the bad people at bay
there are 69,438 active/sworn police officers in Canada
in the us there are 1.1 million police officers
so...taking the guns away will not make things better...
this is not England or Australia
what keeps us strong as a people is what makes us strong as a country..
lets get back to our bikes please...
we can all agree on that
jmhao

[Limoles]

The researchers found that those who poses firearms and believe in "self-defense philosophy" were about 4 - 5 times more likely to be shot than those who did not carry any gun.

The reasons for this is :

A gun in hands of defender may falsely empower an aggressor to overreact, instigating and losing sense of judgement . Individuals who are in possession of a gun may increase their risk of gun assault by entering dangerous environments that they would have normally avoided.

This is a finding supported by numerous other studies in health and judicial policies , including several articles in the New England Journal of Medicine. Study also found that for individuals who had time to resist and counter in a gun assault, the odds of actually being shot actually increased to 5.5 versus to an individual not carrying any fire arm.

So , now is your time to think about it and compare to the reality ...

[smokinjoe187]

The researchers found that those who poses firearms and believe in "self-defense philosophy" were about 4 - 5 times more likely to be shot than those who did not carry any gun.

The reasons for this is :

A gun in hands of defender may falsely empower an aggressor to overreact, instigating and losing sense of judgement . Individuals who are in possession of a gun may increase their risk of gun assault by entering dangerous environments that they would have normally avoided.

This is a finding supported by numerous other studies in health and judicial policies , including several articles in the New England Journal of Medicine. Study also found that for individuals who had time to resist and counter in a gun assault, the odds of actually being shot actually increased to 5.5 versus to an individual not carrying any fire arm.

So , now is your time to think about it and compare to the reality ...

do you really believe all you read???
This is America
there is always a counter point to every article written by some windbag writer
there is always a survey or a study or an article
remember they are always trying to convince someone some where about something
my reality is still intact,so is my opinion

[Limoles]

do you really believe all you read???
This is America
there is always a counter point to every article written by some windbag writer
there is always a survey or a study or an article
remember they are always trying to convince someone some where about something
my reality is still intact,so is my opinion

Yes - I really do . I believe in science more than any archaic dogmatism .
Just wonder - What is your counter point to scientific studies ?
What means - This is America ? Is it a mind set or simple fear ?
Not trying to convince anyone , I can see this problem only from different prospectives .

I think you have rights to have your opinion and nobody will kill you for that , but you
can be shot anywhere ( in America ) , not having chances to defend yourself either .

[smokinjoe187]

Yes - I really do . I believe in science more than any archaic dogmatism .
Just wonder - What is your counter point to scientific studies ?
What means - This is America ? Is it a mind set or simple fear ?
Not trying to convince anyone , I can see this problem only from different prospectives .

I think you have rights to have your opinion and nobody will kill you for that , but you
can be shot anywhere ( in America ) , not having chances to defend yourself either .

enough hijacking...
yup i own
we can go like this for ever

[bigbird]

i fail to understand why this is on this board...

lets get back to our bikes please...


Why?
This is in the off topic section where it belongs.
If someone doesn't like this topic, they don't have to indulge.

[bigbird]

enough hijacking...


How is this hijacking?

[bigbird]

bad people do bad things
canada has a population or 35,344,962
the us population 318.9 million
you do the math,its not hard...
there are BAD people here
guns keep the bad people at bay
there are 69,438 active/sworn police officers in Canada
in the us there are 1.1 million police officers
so...taking the guns away will not make things better...


Using your logic, China should have the worst case of gun deaths in the world.
But they don't.
Why not?
You know the answer.
No guns.

[Navvet]

Yes - I really do . I believe in science more than any archaic dogmatism .
Just wonder - What is your counter point to scientific studies ?
What means - This is America ? Is it a mind set or simple fear ?
Not trying to convince anyone , I can see this problem only from different prospectives .

I think you have rights to have your opinion and nobody will kill you for that , but you
can be shot anywhere ( in America ) , not having chances to defend yourself either .

I think your "scientific study" has been proven to be a standard case of liberal skewed statistics.

I tend to support the studies referenced by http://crimepreventionresearchcenter.org/ .... Tend to be a little more common sense.

[stroguy]

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

It's not science........it's statistics and a 9th grader can do statistics and an adult can skew statistics to fit their DOGMA.

Very curious why nobody in the US wants to take claim for the radical drop in violent crime in the US over the last 25 years........hmmmmmmm. Maybe fear is a tool and fear is used by skewing statistics and hiding facts. In simpler terms they lie......and yes it is in print. So believe what you want to read, I look for facts.

[53driver]

Studies, polls, reports are all "summaries" of 'raw' data.
Using various official sounding terms like "non-statisitcal sample" (which is a real mathematical term used for "cherry picking the samples we wanted to exploit") and of course "percentages" and carefully worded questions with multiple choice answers that don't always fit and then extrapolating that "finding" to the rest of the population is really making a well done report - on ANY topic - hard to find.
Let's face it - whoever funds the study gets to skew the report of the outcome.

If you want something done correctly, one must do it oneself.

My personal poll. Raw data, both questions and answers are provided for clarity:

"Do you live in a metropolitan area where gang violence & drug crime is prevalent?"
Yes. Philadelphia.
"Is the 911 response time greater than 2 minutes?"
Yes.
"Are you too young to die?"
Yes.
"Are you too old to get your ass beat?"
Yes.
"Are you trained in hand to hand combat?"
Yes.
"Are you a martial artist capable of defending yourself against a pack of unarmed thugs?"
No.
"Are you professionally trained in the use of firearms?"
Yes.
"Do you maintain proficiency in the use of firearms for self and home defense?"
Yes.

My conclusion to my study is that should I find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself or my family from 2 or more aggressors (or one REALLY good one), is that my probability of survival is based upon abilities which I do not possess without some hardware help.
My action on my conclusion is to carry a concealed weapon.

Your personal poll questions and answers will vary. Please behave responsibly.

[Navvet]

Studies, polls, reports are all "summaries" of 'raw' data.
Using various official sounding terms like "non-statisitcal sample" (which is a real mathematical term used for "cherry picking the samples we wanted to exploit") and of course "percentages" and carefully worded questions with multiple choice answers that don't always fit and then extrapolating that "finding" to the rest of the population is really making a well done report - on ANY topic - hard to find.
Let's face it - whoever funds the study gets to skew the report of the outcome.

If you want something done correctly, one must do it oneself.

My personal poll. Raw data, both questions and answers are provided for clarity:

"Do you live in a mteropolitan area where gang violence & drug crime is prevalent?"
Yes. Philadelphia.
"Is the 911 response time greater than 2 minutes?"
Yes.
"Are you too young to die?"
Yes.
"Are you too old to get your ass beat?"
Yes.
"Are you trained in hand to hand combat?"
Yes.
"Are you a martial artist capable of defending yourself against a pack of unarmed thugs?"
No.
"Are you professionally trained in the use of firearms?"
Yes.
"Do you maintain proficiency in the use of firearms for self and home defense?"
Yes.

My conclusion to my study is that should I find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself or my family from 2 or more aggressors (or one REALLY good one), is that my probability of survival is based upon abilities which I do not possess without some hardware help.
My action on my conclusion is to carry a concealed weapon.

Your personal poll questions and answers will vary. Please behave responsibly.

:lolup::lolup::clap2::clap2::clap2::lolup::lolup:

[stroguy]

53, I grew up at Roosevelt Blvd and Welsh Rd in the 70's and 80's. Street smarts weren't really needed back then because NE Philly was a low crime area. I went back in the late 90's to care for my dying mother and the first thing I began wishing for was a gun to carry. Wow what a radical change. I left after 18 months and sadly never looked back. Still love Philly, the Flyers and the Phils, but taxes, tolls and crime make it not the place for me anymore.

[53driver]

53, I grew up at Roosevelt Blvd and Welsh Rd in the 70's and 80's. Street smarts weren't really needed back then because NE Philly was a low crime area. I went back in the late 90's to care for my dying mother and the first thing I began wishing for was a gun to carry. Wow what a radical change. I left after 18 months and sadly never looked back. Still love Philly, the Flyers and the Phils, but taxes, tolls and crime make it not the place for me anymore.

I live In Richboro/Newtown, but I work at the Naval Facility in the NE on Oxford & Levick.
Your assessment is spot on, plus a few more variables have been added to the mix.
I am leaving this area soon....

[stroguy]

Boy what I would do for a tomato pie from Tonys or a real cheesteak or hoagie.

[53driver]

Boy what I would do for a tomato pie from Tonys or a real cheesteak or hoagie.

Heading to Tony Luke's for lunch......

[Steve 0080]

Studies, polls, reports are all "summaries" of 'raw' data.
Using various official sounding terms like "non-statisitcal sample" (which is a real mathematical term used for "cherry picking the samples we wanted to exploit") and of course "percentages" and carefully worded questions with multiple choice answers that don't always fit and then extrapolating that "finding" to the rest of the population is really making a well done report - on ANY topic - hard to find.
Let's face it - whoever funds the study gets to skew the report of the outcome.

If you want something done correctly, one must do it oneself.

My personal poll. Raw data, both questions and answers are provided for clarity:

"Do you live in a mteropolitan area where gang violence & drug crime is prevalent?"
Yes. Philadelphia.
"Is the 911 response time greater than 2 minutes?"
Yes.
"Are you too young to die?"

Great poll...if someone can complete this one and feel safe...so be it... if not, then lock and load!...The rest of you who live in a fairy tale world, so far had not had anything done to them...carry on.......
Yes.
"Are you too old to get your ass beat?"
Yes.
"Are you trained in hand to hand combat?"
Yes.
"Are you a martial artist capable of defending yourself against a pack of unarmed thugs?"
No.
"Are you professionally trained in the use of firearms?"
Yes.
"Do you maintain proficiency in the use of firearms for self and home defense?"
Yes.

My conclusion to my study is that should I find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself or my family from 2 or more aggressors (or one REALLY good one), is that my probability of survival is based upon abilities which I do not possess without some hardware help.
My action on my conclusion is to carry a concealed weapon.

Your personal poll questions and answers will vary. Please behave responsibly.



Great poll...if someone can complete this one and feel safe...so be it... if not, then lock and load!...The rest of you who live in a fairy tale world, so far had not had anything done to them...carry on.......

[smokinjoe187]

Great poll...if someone can complete this one and feel safe...so be it... if not, then lock and load!...The rest of you who live in a fairy tale world, so far had not had anything done to them...carry on.......

+1,as always Steve spot on...i drive through south central and gardena every day,we live in a changed world
maybe someday these other ideals will hold true but not now...
btw...china, The country is ruled by the Communist Party of China...they are on there way to capitalism
and they allow no guns period...(just the army)

[smokinjoe187]

enough hijacking...
yup i own
we can go like this for ever
what I meant was my personal rant.
i was trying to follow the topic,not get in the middle of the gun ownership controversy

[smokinjoe187]

To answer the original question of this thread, no I do not carry and though it seems to be close to time to revisit that decision I have never had a need to. I grew up in and have lived briefly in places that most would not dare to go through, would drive 5 miles out of the way to avoid and I never carried.
I relied on my wits and later in life my trained ability to defend myself without a pistol.
Those years taught me that the more people with guns,the more people will get shot. For little to nothing.
As I have gotten older I realize regrettably that I am not as quick or strong as I was in my youth and with the situation in this country going to hell I think about it more.
A couple of comments,How we interpret the constitution is a matter of convenience. "Well regulated Militia" had no intent in old English or new to mean "anybody that can shoot". "Well regulated" hasn't changed definition.
Another referring to Zimmerman.He approached that kid for no reason. He called the cops who told him to back off ,but he didn't. So the kid was completely innocent of any wrong doing and Zimmerman approached him anyway ,then got his ass kicked and relied on what had made him powerful(in his own mind) to kill the kid for nothing.Yeah he needed to defend himself ,but he started the altercation. How does that play?
And there's my problem,I am black,I wear hoodies when it's cool as my head is bald.As would any thinking person,if you come up to me on my walk to 7/11(as I do for exercise) I will do my best to back you off verbally and if it gets physical I am the one who gets shot? Let's take race out of it gentlemen -how would you respond. Not hijacking the thread that's a done deal ,but it gets referred to as a reason to carry...and still I dont.Would I carry to defend myself against the kid or Zimmerman?
Terry no ,our constitution expressly forbids religion and Government..but even those explicit words have fallen to interpretation of those who would profit from our division.
Your right to carry I fully support but I have run into too many with legal guns that make me shudder.
Whats really funny is last I checked,more people were killed by baseball bats....Dont carry one of those either..

+1, actually the perfect response ...Will Smith did say it best
Don't start none won't be none...that is not always the case but great in theory

[53driver]

+1,as always Steve spot on...i drive through south central and gardena every day,we live in a changed world
maybe someday these other ideals will hold true but not now...
btw...china, The country is ruled by the Communist Party of China...they are on there way to capitalism
and they allow no guns period...(just the army)

Thank you Joe! :icon_biggrin:
Oh wait, you meant the other Steve......:icon_mrgreen:

[smokinjoe187]

Thank you Joe! :icon_biggrin:
Oh wait, you meant the other Steve......:icon_mrgreen:

actually both of you...Look, I wish we lived 50 years ago when things were simple...
but...the world is a far more equal place now...and a far more dangerous place
watch ten minutes of the news...if that not scare you awake nothing ever will..

[smokinjoe187]

Studies, polls, reports are all "summaries" of 'raw' data.
Using various official sounding terms like "non-statisitcal sample" (which is a real mathematical term used for "cherry picking the samples we wanted to exploit") and of course "percentages" and carefully worded questions with multiple choice answers that don't always fit and then extrapolating that "finding" to the rest of the population is really making a well done report - on ANY topic - hard to find.
Let's face it - whoever funds the study gets to skew the report of the outcome.

If you want something done correctly, one must do it oneself.

My personal poll. Raw data, both questions and answers are provided for clarity:

"Do you live in a metropolitan area where gang violence & drug crime is prevalent?"
Yes. Philadelphia.
"Is the 911 response time greater than 2 minutes?"
Yes.
"Are you too young to die?"
Yes.
"Are you too old to get your ass beat?"
Yes.
"Are you trained in hand to hand combat?"
Yes.
"Are you a martial artist capable of defending yourself against a pack of unarmed thugs?"
No.
"Are you professionally trained in the use of firearms?"
Yes.
"Do you maintain proficiency in the use of firearms for self and home defense?"
Yes.

My conclusion to my study is that should I find myself in a situation where I have to defend myself or my family from 2 or more aggressors (or one REALLY good one), is that my probability of survival is based upon abilities which I do not possess without some hardware help.
My action on my conclusion is to carry a concealed weapon.

Your personal poll questions and answers will vary. Please behave responsibly.

+1

[53driver]

actually both of you...Look, I wish we lived 50 years ago when things were simple...
but...the world is a far more equal place now...and a far more dangerous place
watch ten minutes of the news...if that not scare you awake nothing ever will..

I wish we lived in simpler times, but with social and mass media getting everyone spun up over "little" things, nothing is simple.
Imagine all the disagreements that would abruptly end if the internet had an "ultimate truth" filter?
Of course, that truth would be 'according to whom?" so maybe not.
I think I need to go read more Plato on Truth.

[srt8-in-largo]

actually both of you...Look, I wish we lived 50 years ago when things were simple...
but...the world is a far more equal place now...and a far more dangerous place
watch ten minutes of the news...if that not scare you awake nothing ever will..

Is irony the right word?

You issue a courtesy for hijacking, when in fact you were on topic... and now when you are hijacking, it goes unnoticed :icon_biggrin:

[smokinjoe187]

Is irony the right word?

You issue a courtesy for hijacking, when in fact you were on topic... and now when you are hijacking, it goes unnoticed :icon_biggrin:

:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

[Limoles]

^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^

It's not science........it's statistics and a 9th grader can do statistics and an adult can skew statistics to fit their DOGMA.

Very curious why nobody in the US wants to take claim for the radical drop in violent crime in the US over the last 25 years........hmmmmmmm. Maybe fear is a tool and fear is used by skewing statistics and hiding facts. In simpler terms they lie......and yes it is in print. So believe what you want to read, I look for facts.

In many , or at least only last few years , 9th graders were shot and killed as well , as mass murders statistics and national outcries are clearly proving that , so dogmatism among self-defenders is worthless .
Claims of majority crimes are also proving , that guns in hands of irresponsible owners , or those who have easy access to it , killed more innocent people , who had "right to defend themselves" , but due to restrictions , they didn't have chances to counter perpetrators , or simply couldn't do it on time.

Following natural instincts , everyone have rights to defend themselves . If American wants to continue ancient traditions of Wild West surviving style of life , it would be "smart" to allow everybody to carry any kind of weapon , including fire arms ( with exception to mentally ill , which are so many anyway ) . Living in unnecessary fear could turn into the Darwinian theory of natural selection , where the only strongest have rights to be and have their "righteous word". It could be not so good idea either , especially taking for consideration weaker individuals .

By the way - in statistics , USA is a world's leader of criminal behavior , caused by dramatic and im-proportional distribution of wealth , luck of family unity leading to habitual deprivation , devastated influences of violent films and electronic games , sexual abuse , collapsed community , complicated interpretation of law , racism , unemployment , mental retardation and ... list can go on and on .

There are the facts , so this is not about believes , but simple estimation of reality , where we live . Some might refuse to understand it , or twist it in political characterization . For them , creative prevention can be non-existal,
so the only known solution is to poses a gun , which "just in case" can be used ( but without any guaranties of survival ) anyway ...

There is also another way - just disarm all society , but it requries much more understanding and work of legislators , who will not protect so many businesses engaged in vast extensions of criminal behavior . But how life could be boring , if first pages of national papers didn't have so many criminal reports , if TV news didn't provide pictures of bloody scenarios , if Americans didn't need to build another prisons , if in mentality , people could convert the inherited fear into the simple normality of life ??? Yes - it still exist !

[srt8-in-largo]

:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

Here is what's ironic... I am the KING of hijacks, yet I ping others about doing it.

See?

:icon_mrgreen:

[Limoles]

Here is what's ironic... I am the KING of hijacks, yet I ping others about doing it.

See?

:icon_mrgreen:

So , will be better , if you "go away" ...:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

[53driver]

Please cite the references for these statements, that they are "truths" - especially the cause and effect of #3:



1. 9th graders were shot and killed as well , as mass murders statistics and national outcries are clearly proving that , so dogmatism among self-defenders is worthless.

2. Claims of majority crimes are also proving , that guns in hands of irresponsible owners , or those who have easy access to it , killed more innocent people , who had "right to defend themselves" , but due to restrictions , they didn't have chances to counter perpetrators , or simply couldn't do it on time.

3. By the way - in statistics , USA is a world's leader of criminal behavior , caused by dramatic and im-proportional distribution of wealth , luck of family unity leading to habitual deprivation , devastated influences of violent films and electronic games , sexual abuse , collapsed community , complicated interpretation of law , racism , unemployment , mental retardation and ... list can go on and on .

4. There is also another way - just disarm all society , but it requries much more understanding and work of legislators , who will not protect so many businesses engaged in vast extensions of criminal behavior . But how life could be boring , if first pages of national papers didn't have so many criminal reports , if TV news didn't provide pictures of bloody scenarios , if Americans didn't need to build another prisons , if in mentality , people could convert the inherited fear into the simple normality of life ??? Yes - it still exist !

Thank you.

[srt8-in-largo]

So , will be better , if you "go away" ...:icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

Hey I think you were included. What was it, we are just a couple of A-holes :crackup:

[Limoles]

Hey I think you were included. What was it, we are just a couple of A-holes :crackup:

Tires , which "convincing" topics of "experienced" fire-squad almost killed us - thanks to no mortal weapons . However it's nice to be recognized as a black sheep . It create controversy in peaceful debate . Viva Forum !

[srt8-in-largo]

Guns are deeply ingrained in the American psyche, and I think it's easy to understand why. Our whole existence is owed to private ownership of guns, and that fact was not lost on the Founding Fathers, who deemed it so important as to write it permanently in the supreme laws of the land.

I appreciate the 2nd Amendment as much as anybody, maybe more than most... but I can still ponder, imagine, and debate what would happen if it was struck down. Frankly... I don't think we know if crime and violence would drop if guns were banned here. America has a distinctly different set of problems than Canada, England, and China.

[hiflyer]

The can of worms is again opened.
Only the police have handguns here.
The very few handguns in the possession of criminals are quickly confiscated and destroyed the second the outlaws are prosecuted.
The only source of guns for the criminals is from the USA, those being smuggled into our country.

Criminals here rely mostly on knives and the occasional sawed off shotgun.
Our low death rate from violent crime reflects that.
If the USA banned handguns for everyone but law enforcement, nothing would change for you for at least 2 more generations.

Evidently some Canadians don't need a handgun.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc1_1428340740

[shooter]

You know I'm kinda a live and let live guy. I someone doesn't want a gun then that's OK with me. Just don't try to take mine. I reserve the right to exercise my constitutional rights. Even with all our problems this is still the greatest country on the planet. We may have lost a step , but we are still number one.

[53driver]

Evidently some Canadians don't need a handgun.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=dc1_1428340740

Had that been my wife's mini-van? He wouldn't be facing charges...he'd be being measured for a casket.

[53driver]

You know I'm kinda a live and let live guy. I someone doesn't want a gun then that's OK with me. Just don't try to take mine. I reserve the right to exercise my constitutional rights. Even with all our problems this is still the greatest country on the planet. We may have lost a step , but we are still number one.

Aye.

[bigbird]

Had that been my wife's mini-van? He wouldn't be facing charges...he'd be being measured for a casket.

Crazy Quebecois. Too much poutine.
All bark and no bite.

[srt8-in-largo]

A question for all; please answer honestly: if that woman pulled a gun and shot this fool dead... was it justified?

[bigbird]

A question for all; please answer honestly: if that woman pulled a gun and shot this fool dead... was it justified?

If she pulled a handgun and shot the fool dead, she would be charged with murder and convicted. In Canada, a handgun is a restricted weapon. If she bashed the guy with a tire iron and killed him she'd walk. if she used a handgun, she'd get 20 years.
I'm sure in the US if she used a handgun she'd also walk.
Would she be justified? I don't think so.

[Steve 0080]

A question for all; please answer honestly: if that woman pulled a gun and shot this fool dead... was it justified?

In Fla...basically all you need is fear and the ability... if ever accosted by someone, say out loud you are scaring me, you are scaring me...if the person pursues you after that statement and they end up dead, you 'll walk

To answer your question, if a crazy man came up to a vehicle with a women driving and her kids inside, flashing a chainsaw and sticking it inside the window, he would be DRT= Dead right there! Period and no jury in the USA would convict her of anything !

Now in Canada where it is apparently OK for this behavior, as there is a PoPo on every corner waiting for crime to happen the woman would have been cut into pieces and each child raped as well, the man would have been locked up for a couple of years until he got his sanity back...O Canada...


That should do it......

[Navvet]

13038

:icon_lol:

[Limoles]

For the last two decades or so , thru the extensive studies , more scientists and legal experts , trying to recognize neuroscience predisposition among people , who could kill other human bean without any mercy and regrets . They found , that many individuals ( and majority of them served as a soldiers ) were stimulated by hidden killing gene , responsible for inverted mind set , which allows them to act beyond control and commit ruthless crime(s) .

Humans , as a species , still carry hunting instinct , which thru the evolutionary process didn't rule out possibilities of taking someone's life - legally or not . This gene already is able to trigger and ignite decision of killing someone without recognition of incoming consequences . For them , principles of life in symbiosis with others do not play any major role . Behavior of many doesn't possess ability of self judgmental thinking , or don't recognize the differences between right and wrong . Interpretation of moral rules of life comes from many levels ; has also many roots , like : ethics , culture , how they were raised , who provided education , influences of environment , etc . Those , who are already violent and easily provoked , can use violence as a form of entertainment too. Sometimes they also looking for the depletion of an anger , which in many cases can't be controlled . Presently , the major causes of violent crime comes from poverty and usually individuals without any hope , or life improvement are the first , who consciously are grabbing THE GUNS , as a tool to allow them to achieve un-consience goal. The main reason of making it so easy are simplicity of reaching for these tools and this is the fundamental subject of our endless discussion.

[53driver]

For the last two decades or so , thru the extensive studies , more scientists and legal experts , trying to recognize neuroscience predisposition among people , who could kill other human bean without any mercy and regrets . They found , that many individuals ( and majority of them served as a soldiers ) were stimulated by hidden killing gene , responsible for inverted mind set , which allows them to act beyond control and commit ruthless crime(s) .

Humans , as a species , still carry hunting instinct , which thru the evolutionary process didn't rule out possibilities of taking someone's life - legally or not . This gene already is able to trigger and ignite decision of killing someone without recognition of incoming consequences . For them , principles of life in symbiosis with others do not play any major role . Behavior of many doesn't possess ability of self judgmental thinking , or don't recognize the differences between right and wrong . Interpretation of moral rules of life comes from many levels ; has also many roots , like : ethics , culture , how they were raised , who provided education , influences of environment , etc . Those , who are already violent and easily provoked , can use violence as a form of entertainment too. Sometimes they also looking for the depletion of an anger , which in many cases can't be controlled . Presently , the major causes of violent crime comes from poverty and usually individuals without any hope , or life improvement are the first , who consciously are grabbing THE GUNS , as a tool to allow them to achieve un-consience goal. The main reason of making it so easy are simplicity of reaching for these tools and this is the fundamental subject of our endless discussion.

And this is why I take a small tablet every morning....to keep my blood pressure under control due to the stresses incurred by the conflict within me caused by my moral upbringing and respect for life going in direct opposition to my desire to kill some asshole that desperately needs it. In this case, the one who chopped off a puppy's hind foot and threw the pup into a canal in Los Angeles.

[RickJ]

And this is why I take a small tablet every morning....to keep my blood pressure under control due to the stresses incurred by the conflict within me caused by my moral upbringing and respect for life going in direct opposition to my desire to kill some asshole that desperately needs it. In this case, the one who chopped off a puppy's hind foot and threw the pup into a canal in Los Angeles.

I carry- and it is NOT in order to exact Gods justice on people in this and other examples. No matter how heinous that's why we have police and courts My ONLY 2 reasons are for my own personal protection should MY life be threatened...or ditto my family- any other situation is none of my business...and I may not really understand that situation anyway. The other reason is that I can, it is a right (and a responsibility). As they say- use it or lose it.

Once you shoot someone, your life changes, I don't want to do that because some asshole cut me off, or I got in a fist fight with a bigger guy, or I misinterpreted a situation that didn't involve me at a mall.

[bigbird]

For the last two decades or so , thru the extensive studies , more scientists and legal experts , trying to recognize neuroscience predisposition among people , who could kill other human bean without any mercy and regrets . They found , that many individuals ( and majority of them served as a soldiers ) were stimulated by hidden killing gene , responsible for inverted mind set , which allows them to act beyond control and commit ruthless crime(s) .

Humans , as a species , still carry hunting instinct , which thru the evolutionary process didn't rule out possibilities of taking someone's life - legally or not . This gene already is able to trigger and ignite decision of killing someone without recognition of incoming consequences . For them , principles of life in symbiosis with others do not play any major role . Behavior of many doesn't possess ability of self judgmental thinking , or don't recognize the differences between right and wrong . Interpretation of moral rules of life comes from many levels ; has also many roots , like : ethics , culture , how they were raised , who provided education , influences of environment , etc . Those , who are already violent and easily provoked , can use violence as a form of entertainment too. Sometimes they also looking for the depletion of an anger , which in many cases can't be controlled . Presently , the major causes of violent crime comes from poverty and usually individuals without any hope , or life improvement are the first , who consciously are grabbing THE GUNS , as a tool to allow them to achieve un-consience goal. The main reason of making it so easy are simplicity of reaching for these tools and this is the fundamental subject of our endless discussion.



Makes sense.
Something's wrong in a violent person's genetics.
Giving them a gun only mitigates their instability.
Too bad prescreening can't filter the violent ones from the normal.

Looks like the Canadian chainsaw nut job has a few bent DNA molecules.
I still say poutine is partly to blame. :crackup:

[Injun Joe]

I don't own one. Never have even fired a gun. I think about it sometimes but I figure I'd just get myself in trouble with one.

[srt8-in-largo]

You realize that, had the guy been serious, he could have put that chainsaw through the window and dismembered your child in less than 1 second, no? I don't think anyone should be subjected to the whims of a chainsaw wielding nutjob and rely on the *HOPE* of him backing down.

I would much rather deal with the anguish of a shooting, than deal with a dismembered or dead child and wonder later if I should have done something... IMO the shooting is not only justifiable, it's also rationale and logical. I'll take my chances with a jury.

[BIGLRY]

You realize that, had the guy been serious, he could have put that chainsaw through the window and dismembered your child in less than 1 second, no? I don't think anyone should be subjected to the whims of a chainsaw wielding nutjob and rely on the *HOPE* of him backing down.

I would much rather deal with the anguish of a shooting, than deal with a dismembered or dead child and wonder later if I should have done something... IMO the shooting is not only justifiable, it's also rationale and logical. I'll take my chances with a jury.
Kind of reminds me of the old saying by Col. Jeff Cooper, founder of Gunsite, "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6".:301:

[RickJ]

I don't own one. Never have even fired a gun. I think about it sometimes but I figure I'd just get myself in trouble with one.

Then you shouldn't own one...which you don't, so far so good!:icon_wink:

[Limoles]

Kind of reminds me of the old saying by Col. Jeff Cooper, founder of Gunsite, "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6".:301:

... and for that reason , you have to move to Florida .

[53driver]

I carry- and it is NOT in order to exact Gods justice on people in this and other examples. No matter how heinous that's why we have police and courts My ONLY 2 reasons are for my own personal protection should MY life be threatened...or ditto my family- any other situation is none of my business...and I may not really understand that situation anyway. The other reason is that I can, it is a right (and a responsibility). As they say- use it or lose it.

Once you shoot someone, your life changes, I don't want to do that because some asshole cut me off, or I got in a fist fight with a bigger guy, or I misinterpreted a situation that didn't involve me at a mall.

Rick - Full agreement. I carry for the same reasons. I do not do vigilante work.

My response was aimed at the "genetics lesson" from the distinguished gentleman from New Jersey.
Yes there is stress in everyday living, and the resulting conflict between "thinking I want to do something" and resorting to my "live and let live" philosophy tends to raise my BP a few notches.
But, no action is taken until my life is in danger.

[RickJ]

Rick - Full agreement. I carry for the same reasons. I do not do vigilante work.

My response was aimed at the "genetics lesson" from the distinguished gentleman from New Jersey.
Yes there is stress in everyday living, and the resulting conflict between "thinking I want to do something" and resorting to my "live and let live" philosophy tends to raise my BP a few notches.
But, no action is taken until my life is in danger.

Glad to hear it...True confession- I hear you on the assholes bereft of morality or conscience. I volunteer at a local jail and DAYUM some people think differently...not all of them, but there are real sickos out there. Anyway- peace brother!

[shooter]

Guys its simple. If you want to carry and are qualified then have at it. If you don't want to carry and feel unsure about your ability then leave the guns to others. For those of you that don't carry and don't want me to carry either , if the situation arises I will try my best to not save your sorry self. If I screw up and save your life then I am sorry in advance.

[53driver]

Guys its simple. If you want to carry and are qualified then have at it. If you don't want to carry and feel unsure about your ability then leave the guns to others. For those of you that don't carry and don't want me to carry either , if the situation arises I will try my best to not save your sorry self. If I screw up and save your life then I am sorry in advance.

+1

[RickJ]

Guys its simple. If you want to carry and are qualified then have at it. If you don't want to carry and feel unsure about your ability then leave the guns to others. For those of you that don't carry and don't want me to carry either , if the situation arises I will try my best to not save your sorry self. If I screw up and save your life then I am sorry in advance.

HA +1

[stroguy]

Guys its simple. If you want to carry and are qualified then have at it. If you don't want to carry and feel unsure about your ability then leave the guns to others. For those of you that don't carry and don't want me to carry either , if the situation arises I will try my best to not save your sorry self. If I screw up and save your life then I am sorry in advance.



As we discuss in our Thursday defensive handgun class........when the shit hits the fan at Waffle House I am in no way obligated to defend you. You, under the 2A are fully free to apply the same principals that I have decided to use to defend my family and me. If you choose to ask the would be killer 'pretty please don't shoot me' as your defense, best of luck to you. I fully understand the legal ramifications of deploying my handgun and using it. That's why I take my responsibility fully to heart. Best of luck to those that choose another method of defense. The vast majority of gun toting liberal titled 'gun nuts' also understand this theory and are responsible gun carrying citizens. The MSNBC's and liberal scare tactic of there being Dodge City shootouts when everyone is carrying just never materialized. Again, liberals need to create fear to extend their agenda.

[shooter]

Well said Stroguy. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes its lonely. The anti's are much more vocal than us gun-toting crazies. Hey brother I just worry about me and mine. The rest of the world is on its own.

[53driver]

Well said Stroguy. I'm glad I'm not the only one. Sometimes its lonely. The anti's are much more vocal than us gun-toting crazies. Hey brother I just worry about me and mine. The rest of the world is on its own.

You are not alone - not even close.
There are many of us out here.

[racer]

Another referring to Zimmerman.He approached that kid for no reason. He called the cops who told him to back off ,but he didn't. So the kid was completely innocent of any wrong doing and Zimmerman approached him anyway ,then got his ass kicked and relied on what had made him powerful(in his own mind) to kill the kid for nothing.Yeah he needed to defend himself ,but he started the altercation. How does that play?
And there's my problem,I am black,I wear hoodies when it's cool as my head is bald.As would any thinking person,if you come up to me on my walk to 7/11(as I do for exercise) I will do my best to back you off verbally and if it gets physical I am the one who gets shot? Let's take race out of it gentlemen -how would you respond. Not hijacking the thread that's a done deal ,but it gets referred to as a reason to carry...and still I dont.Would I carry to defend myself against the kid or Zimmerman?


I don't feel the need to argue the zimmerman case. It was argued in court in front of a jury and he was found not guilty.

By whatever circumstance I managed to be underneath someone trying to bash my skull open on the ground... my fault, his fault, nobody's fault, regardless of the color of his skin or how he dresses, he'd be shot if I can reach my weapon.

Preservation of one's life is instinctive in most organisms. We should all have the right to self defense and preserving one's life. For many who lack the physical attributes to kick everyone's ass, that means the carrying of a weapon of some sort.

[Steve 0080]

"I don't feel the need to argue the zimmerman case. It was argued in court in front of a jury and he was found not guilty.

By whatever circumstance I managed to be underneath someone trying to bash my skull open on the ground... my fault, his fault, nobody's fault, regardless of the color of his skin or how he dresses, he'd be shot if I can reach my weapon.

Preservation of one's life is instinctive in most organisms. We should all have the right to self defense and preserving one's life. For many who lack the physical attributes to kick everyone's ass, that means the carrying of a weapon of some sort."

Well said...my problem is simple... I am a asshole magnet...hell maybe it's me...either way I have no qualms either slapping some sense into you or poppin a cap in your azz... shot his foot

[Elroy]

I've done well to keep my nose out of this thread & debate! :icon_wink: But I jump in now to deliver some good news for Ohioans. As of March 23rd, Ohio reached new reciprocity agreements with Colorado, Texas, Wisconsin, Georgia, and New Hampshire. Delightful to me as Colorado is my favorite state, and I had to leave my weapon at home during my trip out there on the bike last year. Keep Calm and Carry On! :biggthumpup:

[Navvet]

As we discuss in our Thursday defensive handgun class........when the shit hits the fan at Waffle House I am in no way obligated to defend you. You, under the 2A are fully free to apply the same principals that I have decided to use to defend my family and me. If you choose to ask the would be killer 'pretty please don't shoot me' as your defense, best of luck to you. I fully understand the legal ramifications of deploying my handgun and using it. That's why I take my responsibility fully to heart. Best of luck to those that choose another method of defense. The vast majority of gun toting liberal titled 'gun nuts' also understand this theory and are responsible gun carrying citizens. The MSNBC's and liberal scare tactic of there being Dodge City shootouts when everyone is carrying just never materialized. Again, liberals need to create fear to extend their agenda.



+1 :biggthumpup:'all/right':biggthumpup:

[KennyGLVTX]

Kind of reminds me of the old saying by Col. Jeff Cooper, founder of Gunsite, "I'd rather be judged by 12, than carried by 6".:301:

Really Larry, you think 6 could carry you? I mean come on now let's be realistic. :crackup:

[smokinjoe187]

You are not alone - not even close.
There are many of us out here.

+1:clap2:

[Limoles]

Actually it's good to recognize many fearful , but "empowered by firearms" preachers , who try to tickle people's intellectual sensibilities and instill a sense of wonder. In fact , they found mutual pleasure of clapping their backs with sense of "unity" to expose the only known to them antidote to their insecurity .

But , shouldn't they belong to another thread "What type,caliber,name gun are your carrying...." ???

[stroguy]

You are definitely correct with one word........wonder. Funny how you label folks....fearful, insecure, unified. You've never met me, drank a beer with me, played a game of softball with me, but you seem to know me so well. Sounds typical of the liberal playbook.....labeling. I will move on and declare you victorious in this game. Congratulations.

[hoglaw]

You are definitely correct with one word........wonder. Funny how you label folks....fearful, insecure, unified. You've never met me, drank a beer with me, played a game of softball with me, but you seem to know me so well. Sounds typical of the liberal playbook.....labeling. I will move on and declare you victorious in this game. Congratulations.

+1

[bigbird]

You've never met me, drank a beer with me, played a game of softball with me, but you seem to know me so well. Sounds typical of the liberal playbook.....labeling. I will move on and declare you victorious in this game. Congratulations.

Do you carry while playing softball?

[Limoles]

Do you carry while playing softball?


Maybe not , but back clappers can do it with passion and drink bear in the same time .

[BIGLRY]

Really Larry, you think 6 could carry you? I mean come on now let's be realistic. :crackup::clap2: Touché my friend:agree:

[KennyGLVTX]

:clap2: Touché my friend:agree:

It Would take at least three guys to carry that big ol heart of yours!:icon_biggrin: :yes:

[shooter]

Do you carry while playing softball?

I do. Church , Funerals , Weddings , Family meals and Reunions. Basically if I have my pants on , I'm carrying. Leave Stro alone Bird. You're gonna get him all fired up and then Phantom is gonna crack the whip.

[hoglaw]

I do. Church , Funerals , Weddings , Family meals and Reunions. Basically if I have my pants on , I'm carrying. Leave Stro alone Bird. You're gonna get him all fired up and then Phantom is gonna crack the whip.

Ditto...in my family I'm the sheep dog and they rely on me. Ten years a cop, 28 in the military, and I've been in gun fights. I don't want another, but if you bring it I'll respond. There was once a time in America when this was the norm...before the Euro-weenies forgot how to read the constitution.

[Retired Army]

The gun control laws of the "old west" were some of the best penned. The fastest on the draw was the boss. :071:

[shooter]

Hog and Army , I think you guys will agree. Its all about respect and what it takes to get it. The late great Jeff Cooper used to say that "An armed society is a polite society". Jeff said a lot if good stuff. I've read books from Jeff and Bill Jordan , Mas Ayoob , and Elmer Keith. Lots of good in those guys writings.

[hoglaw]

Hog and Army , I think you guys will agree. Its all about respect and what it takes to get it. The late great Jeff Cooper used to say that "An armed society is a polite society". Jeff said a lot if good stuff. I've read books from Jeff and Bill Jordan , Mas Ayoob , and Elmer Keith. Lots of good in those guys writings.

+1

[Limoles]

Incentives of Constitutional Rights has long history of abuse and wrong interpratations .

Since Americans are controlled by unqualified , mostly uneducated "power hungry" law enforcement - ( and corrupt to the bone System ) , liberty will not survive the modern trends in policing. Growing crime is its best example of it and that's why the very character of American society is at stake.

Second Amendment gave privileges to the citizens , guaranteeing the rights to keep and bear arms as necessary to maintain a state militia. In June 1776, Declaration of Independence pronounced that "a well regulated Militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defence of a free State." , but in fact played an important part in the colonization of America and later to curb the slaves for possibility of uprising . In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, European colonists relied heavily on firearms to take land away from Native Americans and repel attacks by Native Americans and Europeans. Around the time of the Revolutionary War, male citizens were required to own firearms for fighting against the British forces. It would be very wrong to apply all of this to the modern times.

... and the problem is , that :

In present time ,Third Amendment have fundamentally altered the balance of power between the citizen and the state. in a way that would have been seen as constitutionally invalid by the Founders. Again - wrong interpratation , due to bully characterization of "rights" implemented to the real life .

Those , who live in understandable fear should rather be afraid of incoming militarization of American Police Forces , who already using unconstitutional tactics to maintain stability in morally destroyed society . We can expect more killings ( including those in the back ) , to keep falsely represented orders , where individually own guns can't and will not match theirs .

Do you want to learn more and open your eyes wider , read also this book , which might de-falsify your sense of security , so deeply rooted in not so obvious believes .

[srt8-in-largo]

To say that law enforcement is unqualified, uneducated, and "power hungry" is a very (very) limited and skewed viewpoint IMO.

There are almost a million cops on the streets in America, who handle tens of millions of community interactions per year. Tens of millions. To cast such a broad generalization based on examples that make up a tiny fraction of a single percentage is incorrect to say the least.

The vast majority of cops are well trained, highly educated, and very professional.

[hoglaw]

To say that law enforcement is unqualified, uneducated, and "power hungry" is a very (very) limited and skewed viewpoint IMO.

There are almost a million cops on the streets in America, who handle tens of millions of community interactions per year. Tens of millions. To cast such a broad generalization based on examples that make up a tiny fraction of a single percentage is incorrect to say the least.

The vast majority of cops are well trained, highly educated, and very professional.

You're right on the money...trouble is you can't argue with conspiracy theorist...applying a Reagan quote to the present argument: "They know so much that isn't true".

[srt8-in-largo]

It's a difficult, difficult position.

Even though I believe my post above about cops in general, any entity that can have complete control over your freedom and that can use lethal force against you needs to be 100% right all the time... and that is definitely not the case, no matter how statistically rare.

We do need strong counterbalance to the agencies that are run by fool hardy execs prone to bad decisions. The way the ATF ran rough-shod over David Koresh was a bit of an eye opener. It's a good thing to ponder and consider the militarization of police departments and question the need and policies and controls, and I wouldn't call anyone who does so a conspirasist; I'd call them a realist.

[shooter]

To say that law enforcement is unqualified, uneducated, and "power hungry" is a very (very) limited and skewed viewpoint IMO.

There are almost a million cops on the streets in America, who handle tens of millions of community interactions per year. Tens of millions. To cast such a broad generalization based on examples that make up a tiny fraction of a single percentage is incorrect to say the least.

The vast majority of cops are well trained, highly educated, and very professional.

George makes a very good point. Can you imagine nationwide how many altercations take place daily between law enforcement and suspects. Probably in the thousands. And yet very little of this happens. I'm not holding up for the cop , but like Ken I'm interested in the rest of the story.

[Steve 0080]

Limoles...Since Americans are controlled by unqualified , mostly uneducated "power hungry" law enforcement - ( and corrupt to the bone System ) , liberty will not survive the modern trends in policing. Growing crime is its best example of it and that's why the very character of American society is at stake."

Did you write this, copy and paste or believe this statement ?

[53driver]

Ditto...in my family I'm the sheep dog and they rely on me. Ten years a cop, 28 in the military, and I've been in gun fights. I don't want another, but if you bring it I'll respond. There was once a time in America when this was the norm...before the Euro-weenies forgot how to read the constitution.

Amen.

Period.

[Limoles]

Limoles...Since Americans are controlled by unqualified , mostly uneducated "power hungry" law enforcement - ( and corrupt to the bone System ) , liberty will not survive the modern trends in policing. Growing crime is its best example of it and that's why the very character of American society is at stake."

Did you write this, copy and paste or believe this statement ?

Since my very early age , I was and am still passionate reader . Beside my never ending studies of technology , or discoveries of advanced science and adopted foreign languages , I love the history of the world and constantly learn about socio-ethnical transitions , associated to its changes. I do not follow biased information from American TV and never trust politicians ( who run and control it ). I do not belong to any political group , but I proudly vote and am very active in community services . I do read dayly international news from many sources . Most importantly - I do not follow to anybodies philosophy of life and I'm always positively charged .

But , I do not accept dramatic changes of the world's downfall and cultural decline of many values . As I stated in my previous threads , I can see the reasons of it . Is no such a thing , like a perfect system , but capitalism in its present form brought devastated inefficiencies to family unity , followed by social , cultural and ethical disintegration . Whatever I stated above , comes from my mind and coded thoughts , which findings do not play speculative role , or copy anybodies minds . Some of them can interfere with popularly practiced adoration of others ( + 1s ) , but this is best example of my individuality . I do not clap anybodies backs and do not kiss their rears . You might say I'm weird and it does not always works . So what ? Loving my liberties , doesn't mean I'm liberal . They are two completely different factors . I do not believe in organized religion , as an another source of conflict . Always seeking spiritual uplifting , which helps me to understand others . Fair enough ?

I also know , that among our group are many ex , or active cops and maybe some lawyers , but trying not to challenge their integrity . They might play by the rules and can be model citizens . But the rules are not always the same , especially if its applications are submissive to the regional and traditionally compliant habits by the self judgmental and vastly practiced absolutism . Americans are deeply divided and guns do not help them to unite . Today anybody can be an enemy and according to the growing social separation , conflicts are associated to majoritie's behavior . That's the social character of modern , full of tensions life , which can not be solved by violence or counter-reactive forces . It simply doesn't work . If you tell me , what kind of solution to it can cure growing crime in such a im-proportional scale , I'll gladly continue to chat and provide endless samples of my analysis .

[Steve 0080]

Soooooooo the answer is all three...WOW!!!! After all that and your pervasive ability to demean the moral fiber which I also guarded for others...you sir NEED to buy a gun! And WHY do you live in this country and not one more to your liking ?

[Limoles]

Soooooooo the answer is all three...WOW!!!! After all that and your pervasive ability to demean the moral fiber which I also guarded for others...you sir NEED to buy a gun! And WHY do you live in this country and not one more to your liking ?

At the risk on being booted from the board, you can have this thread and good luck to you! .notworthy..notworthy..notworthy.


The answer is simple - I don't need the gun to be able to survive . Being against any form of violence , I also learned and found the ways to avoid it . Unfortunately your question WHY is a stereotyped and could contradict with your expectations . You could rather ask HOW and in my repost it could open all content of Pandora box . Would you like to read it , or simply one strong kick will do it better ?

[smokinjoe187]

The answer is simple - I don't need the gun to be able to survive . Being against any form of violence , I also learned and found the ways to avoid it . Unfortunately your question WHY is a stereotyped and could contradict with your expectations . You could rather ask HOW and in my repost it could open all content of Pandora box . Would you like to read it , or simply one strong kick will do it better ?

in the spirt of the topic,why is this still being debated,with the same thing over and over...
its really simple
some have one belief and others have to be bored to tears listening to this soap box of opinions...
lets just let this rest...

[Steve 0080]

The answer is simple - I don't need the gun to be able to survive . Being against any form of violence , I also learned and found the ways to avoid it . Unfortunately your question WHY is a stereotyped and could contradict with your expectations . You could rather ask HOW and in my repost it could open all content of Pandora box . Would you like to read it , or simply one strong kick will do it better ?

Once again a thread has gone into "cop hating"...The GL 1800 board was great for this...maybe you should check out there site, you would be at home!

[bigbird]

The great thing about any democratic country (and forum) is freedom of speech.
One can always choose to walk away if one doesn't like to read/hear contrary views and beliefs.
Let 'er rip!

[shooter]

Bird we just don't care for Nazi's , Commie's , and tree huggers infiltrating the ranks. To accuse law enforcement in general shows ignorance. Walk a mile in their shoes before you speak.

[bigbird]

Bird we just don't care for Nazi's , Commie's , and tree huggers infiltrating the ranks. To accuse law enforcement in general shows ignorance. Walk a mile in their shoes before you speak.

I didn't accuse anybody of anything.

Out of curiosity, who is the collective "we" that you are speaking for.?

[smokinjoe187]

The great thing about any democratic country (and forum) is freedom of speech.
One can always choose to walk away if one doesn't like to read/hear contrary views and beliefs.
Let 'er rip!

wait...thats an america thing....

[Retired Army]

Two things will be present in American society for as long as it lasts. Racism and hand guns. Lets hope the F6B will be the third.

[srt8-in-largo]

The great thing about any democratic country (and forum) is freedom of speech.
One can always choose to walk away if one doesn't like to read/hear contrary views and beliefs.
Let 'er rip!

A bit of trivia... did you know America is actually NOT a democratic country, and I'm pretty sure Canada isn't either. Both are republics.

[bigbird]

Two things will be present in American society for as long as it lasts. Racism and hand guns. Lets hope the F6B will be the third.

I wouldn't be too proud of either of those two.
At least In Canada we only have one of those two problems.

[Retired Army]

I wouldn't be too proud of either of those two.
At least In Canada we only have one of those two problems.

I take great pride in being able to possess a fire arm under the laws of the Republic.

[stroguy]

I take great pride in being able to possess a fire arm under the laws of the Republic.


Most proud as well.

[53driver]

I take great pride in being able to possess a fire arm under the laws of the Republic.


Most proud as well.

Honored for the privilege; proud of the tradition.

[shooter]

I didn't accuse anybody of anything.

Out of curiosity, who is the collective "we" that you are speaking for.?

PATRIOTS. That's who WE are bird. This is the only country that has them. WE are what keeps this country free. If you think that a gun in every pocket and in every closet doesn't help keep a country free , ask a Chinese citizen. Or a Russian citizen. The military are patriots also. They carry the torch.

[srt8-in-largo]

That's a funny thing. I've spent some time in China, in Hong Kong and further north in Guangzhou.

Hong Kong has had a taste of freedom due to prior British rule and the western influence is readily apparent; both by seeing stores like 7-Eleven and Pizza Hut but also in something intangible in the people themselves, you might call it a mindset. People seem relaxed and comfortable talking about anything.

The "real" Chinese in places on the mainland like Guangzhou are a stark contrast. There are things you DON'T talk about, things you DON'T say, and behaviors that you DON'T do. There seems to be a clear fear of reprimand from authorities. These people, just like us, go about their daily lives trying to make a living and trying to enjoy their lives... and they do, they just don't have the same protections from the government that we in western countries have.

Frankly, the Chinese system works for them, and that carries weight considering they've been doing this for thousands of years longer than us. They don't give a second thought about lack of gun ownership... and they don't have rampant crime rates, but I think this is due to the government literally being able to whisk you away on a whim. This scares people straight. There are many many many stories of "dissidents" who spoke too loudly and were made to disappear after getting a visit from Party personnel. Sometimes you'll see them again after a decade or two, other times never.

The link between gun ownership and crime goes much further than a two-dimensional, black and white discussion. Banning guns *clearly* works and is fine in some parts of the world... but you can't take one aspect of one society and expect to apply it successfully in other societies that have vastly different inputs into the equation.

[stroguy]

There are many many many stories of "dissidents" who spoke too loudly and were made to disappear after getting a visit from Party personnel. Sometimes you'll see them again after a decade or two, other times never.

Ah the luxury the government has dispatching the principles of the 1A and 2A. There's a reason they came first and second in the Bill of Rights. PS, guns aren't banned in China..........the government has tons of them. And they wouldn't have a second thought about turning them on their citizens. As well as Somalia, Cuba, Russia,Venezuela and on and on and on.

[srt8-in-largo]

... PS, guns aren't banned in China..........the government has tons of them. And they wouldn't have a second thought about turning them on their citizens. As well as Somalia, Cuba, Russia,Venezuela and on and on and on.

Agree.

I found something that was absolutely incredulous and mind-blowing... most Chinese have no clue about Tiananmen Square; they just don't know it ever happened. This is true even now, in this great "information age" that we live in.

Some Chinese do know about it, and when I brought it up in conversation they looked like they just seen a ghost; a polite smile and a nod and the subject was quickly changed.

[Limoles]

Agree.

I found something that was absolutely incredulous and mind-blowing... most Chinese have no clue about Tiananmen Square; they just don't know it ever happened. This is true even now, in this great "information age" that we live in.

Some Chinese do know about it, and when I brought it up in conversation they looked like they just seen a ghost; a polite smile and a nod and the subject was quickly changed.

Very inaccurate statement .
Chinese , by law restrictions have NO RIGHTS to criticize their own government , so their "polite smile" was the sign of gentle , but perfect attempt to stop , or derailed such a uncomfortable for them question.
To assure you , that these people , who are on top of another countries in education , know and found the better systems to use their intellectual weapons against enemies , applying much more lethal blows than guns. If you didn't know yet , what consequences of "information age" wars cost our treasury , get back to Pentagon's reports , where millions of highly classified files and US military secrets were stolen by Chinese teenagers for benefit of tactical leverage between our countries . This is also a subject of my study , which I can share with those , who might be interested .

[srt8-in-largo]

Very inaccurate statement .
Chinese , by law restrictions have NO RIGHTS to criticize their own government , so their "polite smile" was the sign of gentle , but perfect attempt to stop , or derailed such a uncomfortable for them question.
To assure you , that these people , who are on top of another countries in education , know and found the better systems to use their intellectual weapons against enemies , applying much more lethal blows than guns. If you didn't know yet , what consequences of "information age" wars cost our treasury , get back to Pentagon's reports , where millions of highly classified files and US military secrets were stolen by Chinese teenagers for benefit of tactical leverage between our countries . This is also a subject of my study , which I can share with those , who might be interested .

Not sure what you think is inaccurate; your interpretation of their "polite smile" is exactly the point I was trying to make; that was their way of derailing the conversation. As you may know China has a very restrictive internet filter controlled by their government, but many Chinese do travel internationally... and I wonder what they think when they see an unfiltered internet. I'm sure many think that stories like Tiananman are fictional propaganda created by the West.

Electronic espionage and theft is a battle that has been ongoing for quite some time... very very dangerous and potent indeed. Idk about Chinese teenagers lol but every major government in the world spends big money in this area. And not just for spying and stealing, but physical damage too, things like what Stuxnet did... a digital WEAPON.

Let's look at China's military budget and ponder if they think real guns and bombs still make a difference:

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-zXcuVSpNMq0/VSxa5eDT6TI/AAAAAAAACsg/hCxKE5DcrlE/s800/china%2520military%2520budget.jpg

[Limoles]

Since China's trade surplus hits new record as exports grow , they have enough our $$$ to increase military spendings . WE DO NOT !!! ... and that's the big problem .

[srt8-in-largo]

Is this a good segway to circle the conversation to the deterrent posed by an armed citizenry?

Or is it a deterrent at all?

When military minds draw plans to invade a country, how much of a consideration is this?

[Steve 0080]

We could always lesson our spending on military and give it to the folks riding in the wagon, that would make us a nicer nation...

[jarhead22]

I would much rather talk with you folks about motorcycles and riding! A good way to run off folks is to start talking politics and religion on a motorcycle forum. I have spent the last 34 years of my life defending my and your way of life in this great country, be it 22 yrs active duty Marine Corps and 12 years contracting and deploying with the Marine Corps. I don't care to discuss or debate gun control, birth control, or any other bs agenda on this site. ......I want to talk and read about motorcycles, rides, mechanics, etc....Probably gonna piss some folks off with this statement....so be it.

[stroguy]

It just takes not clicking on the post. I do the same with MSNBC and CNN, just don't go there. Plenty of motorcycle talk here. Best way to avoid this is don't punch the new posts button but go directly to the area of most desire. Thanks for your service jarhead. I as well served proudly in the country club military, USAF.

[shooter]

You can always go to the MC section if the forum. You see , the F6B is the topic of the forum. However you are in the Off Topic Experiment section. In this section we talk about other things than the F6B. Its legal in this section. Don't click on the OTE and you won't have to endure our drivel.

[smokinjoe187]

I would much rather talk with you folks about motorcycles and riding! A good way to run off folks is to start talking politics and religion on a motorcycle forum. I have spent the last 34 years of my life defending my and your way of life in this great country, be it 22 yrs active duty Marine Corps and 12 years contracting and deploying with the Marine Corps. I don't care to discuss or debate gun control, birth control, or any other bs agenda on this site. ......I want to talk and read about motorcycles, rides, mechanics, etc....Probably gonna piss some folks off with this statement....so be it.

+1,and Thank you...
the problem we have is when you respond its on the list of topics,hard to ignore sometime...

[srt8-in-largo]

These threads are like a car wreck though... it's hard not to look :icon_biggrin:

[smokinjoe187]

These threads are like a car wreck though... it's hard not to look :icon_biggrin:

+1,I wish this topic would stay put...

[stroguy]

These threads are like a car wreck though... it's hard not to look :icon_biggrin:

You're right. Easiest is to avoid that pesky new post button. I need to practice better.

I don't watch ABC, FOX or any of the commercial selling programs posing as news outlets before I get hammered.

[BIGLRY]

You're right. Easiest is to avoid that pesky new post button. I need to practice better.

I don't watch ABC, FOX or any of the commercial selling programs posing as news outlets before I get hammered. +1 :tequila::301:

[seadog]

Why you ask, cause its really hard to conceal a Mossberg 500 Blackwater, its only incase someone breaks in where they shouldn't be and want to play six shooter, sorry but I believe in unfair advantages, I don't play six shooter.

[smokinjoe187]

+1 :tequila::301:

+1

[srt8-in-largo]

Just ONE? I could use exactly 3 of those :icon_biggrin:

[Navvet]

I prefer the Mossberg 500 "Chainsaw" ..... Instant case of "Dirty Underwear Syndrome" ....

[racer]

As we discuss in our Thursday defensive handgun class........when the shit hits the fan at Waffle House I am in no way obligated to defend you. You, under the 2A are fully free to apply the same principals that I have decided to use to defend my family and me. If you choose to ask the would be killer 'pretty please don't shoot me' as your defense, best of luck to you.

EXACTLY!!

[racer]

I don't care to discuss or debate gun control, birth control, or any other bs agenda on this site. .......

Then you are in the wrong section of the forum. Try not to click this one:

http://hondaf6b.com/forumdisplay.php?13-Honda-F6B-Off-Topic

[jarhead22]

Then you are in the wrong section of the forum. Try not to click this one:

http://hondaf6b.com/forumdisplay.php?13-Honda-F6B-Off-Topic

I look at the entire forum as a place to get to know the bike and the folks that I may, or may not choose to ride with and support. I am pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, and pretty much against anything that is not in support of the Constitution of the United States of America. I do carry, and support the rights of everyone legal to do the same. I also believe that anyone that does not support and/or support the defense of the Constitution, should relocate to a place that better suits your way of thinking.

[smokinjoe187]

I look at the entire forum as a place to get to know the bike and the folks that I may, or may not choose to ride with and support. I am pro-gun, anti-abortion, anti-gay marriage, and pretty much against anything that is not in support of the Constitution of the United States of America. I do carry, and support the rights of everyone legal to do the same. I also believe that anyone that does not support and/or support the defense of the Constitution, should relocate to a place that better suits your way of thinking.

+1...can i get an AMEN

[ths61]

+1...can i get an AMEN

AMEN

P.S.

I do not own "A" handgun. :icon_wink:

[Hornblower]

Yes, you can! AMEN!