I just bought these jbl speakers, they should rock

[Jrockr]

JBL P562 5-1/4" Two-Way Power Series Speakers

5-1/4" Power Series Car Speakers
Peak: 330 watts per pair / 165 watts each | RMS: 110 watts per pair / 55 watts each
Frequency Response: 75 - 23000 (tel:75 - 23000) Hz
Sensitivity: 91 dB
Top Mount Depth: 1-7/8"
http://hondaf6b.com/webkit-fake-url://38306ec5-4bbb-48b3-859c-558b255c410d/imagejpegEverything I heard about is great!!

[Jrockr]

[QUOTE=Jrockr;73436]JBL P562 5-1/4" Two-Way Power Series Speakers



5-1/4" Power Series Car Speakers
Peak: 330 watts per pair / 165 watts each | RMS: 110 watts per pair / 55 watts each
Frequency Response: 75 - 23000 (tel:75 - 23000) Hz
Sensitivity: 91 dB
Top Mount Depth: 1-7/8"
http://hondaf6b.com/webkit-fake-url://38306ec5-4bbb-48b3-859c-558b255c410d/imagejpegEverything I heard about is great!!

[/QUOTE everything that I have read on this sight made me research these. Multiple stereo shops recommended them.

[Dirtstiff's F6B]

Nice,
Look to have a great frequency range and RMS range. Probably need an amp to bring them to their fullest. Are they Marine rated? Under $ 2 bills?
Those should sound great.
J

[ths61]

Nice,
Look to have a great frequency range and RMS range. Probably need an amp to bring them to their fullest. Are they Marine rated? Under $ 2 bills?
Those should sound great.
J

$70 on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-P562-Two-Way-Series-Speakers/dp/B003T0WFB0

[GiddyupF6B]

They don't appear to be water resistant? They list as car speakers......

[srt8-in-largo]

Where's JimmyT... wonder if Frogzskin can be used for protection....

[Jrockr]

My goal is not to have a amp and I just want to have the best sound that I can get from the head unit. The jbl's pull nre from the factory head unit so they should work good. I am not a fan of Polk, j&m, Sony and the other one that was mentioned on the forum, so I am just going my own way. I will take a lot of pictures and you tubes sound bites for you guys. I hope the result is as good as my research predicts, so I will let you know. Sound quality with out an amp is my goal.

[srt8-in-largo]

My goal is not to have a amp and I just want to have the best sound that I can get from the head unit. The jbl's pull nre from the factory head unit so they should work good. I am not a fan of Polk, j&m, Sony and the other one that was mentioned on the forum, so I am just going my own way. I will take a lot of pictures and you tubes sound bites for you guys. I hope the result is as good as my research predicts, so I will let you know. Sound quality with out an amp is my goal.

:yes::yes:

[53driver]

Don't know a lot about car/bike audio, but I know a lot about studio and Pro Audio PA work for bands.
Few thoughts:
1. The kick drum is usually around 60-66Hz with first overtones at ~120Hz.
2. Anything above 15KHz is usually inaudible to anyone over 40 years old, plus, nothing generates music that high.
3. RMS power/Program power/Peak power are all different ratings and have to do with the nominal impedance of the speaker and what the test was.
RMS is a continuous sine wave at a certain frequency (very grueling test).
Program (or "Music") is more representative of what the speaker will actually see in use.
Peak is the OMG threshold that should not be exceeded for more than a few milliseconds.
In Pro-Audio, the Program rating of a speaker is "usually" 2x the RMS, and the Peak is 4x the RMS.
Without knowing what the OEM amp head is rated for - independent of the OEM speakers being attached - it is difficult to match speakers to an amp.
Normally, the rule of thumb is to get an amp that shall provide 60-80% of Program Power to the speakers for a given impedance.
The impedance for the JBL speakers wasn't provided, but that will have an effect on how the amp sees them and what power the amp will attempt to provide.
4. For waterproofing: a lot of my gigs are outdoors and while the main PA is usually vertical and can be protected with large trash bags, the stage monitors face upwards and are exposed to lots of moisture, either natural rain or man-made sweat, beer, etc. I use Kiwi-Wet Pruf on the cones in a few light coats. It does stiffen the cone a bit, but makes the cone water repellant to a certain point.

Back to pesky day job.....Cheers

Edit: Forgot to mention the "Sensitivity" spec.
This is a good relative spec to determine how loud your speakers will sound compared to other speakers that have published a sensitivity spec.
Usually (the industry standard) is the sensitivity is measured with 1 Watt of input power and the mic is 1 meter away.
It can also go so far as to be in an anechoic environment, or a half space environment, which can affect the reading by 6dB or more.
So that 91 dB mentioned just seems low to me, as most of my cabs are 99-13dB. But again, not car audio and I'm using bigger drivers in bigger cabinets.

[Jimmytee]

I looked at their specs on http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12267_JBL-P562.html
Some things you might want to consider.

The speaker impedance is rated at 2 ohms. Not a big problem for amplifiers that are capable of operating with 2 ohm loads. The OEM speakers are like 3.8 ohms. I know that I tried , as a comparison, running the 2.7 ohm speakers I used with the OEM amplifier and you could tell the OEM amp was running out of steam. Just a thought. You're asking the OEM amplifier to powere a 2 ohm load and I'm not convinced it will like it.

As far as water proofing, the material construction is stated as woven glass so you may be ok. Just wouldn't be directly spraying them down with a hose.

I'm pretty sure you're going to need an adapter or make an adapter to install 5.25" speakers. The stock speakers are like 6" . They have a mounting bolt pattern that is the same as most 6.5" speakers, but the frame is narrower. Some have installed 6.5" speakers and trimming the speaker frame down to fit.

Another consideration is the clearance behind the speaker. The stock speakers have a very small magnet. I don't know the type of magnet, but the Polk Audio MM series component speakers I installed have a neodymium magnet which are small because of the Neodymium magnets. Neodymium is more expensive than traditional magnets.

Just some things to consider. Hope it works out great for you.

[srt8-in-largo]

^^^ These 2 posts are GOLD... at least for someone like me who doesn't know too much in this area.

[53driver]

I looked at their specs on http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_12267_JBL-P562.html
Some things you might want to consider.

The speaker impedance is rated at 2 ohms. Not a big problem for amplifiers that are capable of operating with 2 ohm loads. The OEM speakers are like 3.8 ohms. I know that I tried , as a comparison, running the 2.7 ohm speakers I used with the OEM amplifier and you could tell the OEM amp was running out of steam. Just a thought. You're asking the OEM amplifier to powere a 2 ohm load and I'm not convinced it will like it.

As far as water proofing, the material construction is stated as woven glass so you may be ok. Just wouldn't be directly spraying them down with a hose.

I'm pretty sure you're going to need an adapter or make an adapter to install 5.25" speakers. The stock speakers are like 6" . They have a mounting bolt pattern that is the same as most 6.5" speakers, but the frame is narrower. Some have installed 6.5" speakers and trimming the speaker frame down to fit.

Another consideration is the clearance behind the speaker. The stock speakers have a very small magnet. I don't know the type of magnet, but the Polk Audio MM series component speakers I installed have a neodymium magnet which are small because of the Neodymium magnets. Neodymium is more expensive than traditional magnets.

Just some things to consider. Hope it works out great for you.

2 Ohms is quite a load - that why they can boast the power rating they do.
1. I would make sure that the amp is capable of a 2 Ohm load. Not sure where to find that out.
2. Do not daisy chain these speakers in parallel- that would give you a 1 Ohm load and will in all likelihood blow the amp.

So some quick "Weapons of Math Destruction:"
To get a 2 Ohm speaker to 55 Watts, that requires a 3.7 amp current at 10.4 Volts.
To get a 4 Ohm speaker to 55 Watts, it only requires 1.85 amps but 14.8 Volts - much less of an amp requirement.
To get an 8 Ohm speaker to 55 Watts, it takes less than 1 amp, and 21 volts.
Obviously the amplifier must be up to task for 2 Ohm loading.
If an amplifier at "full-tllt-boogie" is driving two, 2 Ohm speakers to 55 Watts, not counting electrical losses, that's a 7.4 amp requirement on the bike's electrical system.
I do not know what the OEM spec amp is capable of, even though the Fuse Box has a 40A fuse in the "External Amplifier" slot - don't know if that's the Sound System or something else.

I guess my recommendation is get all the info you can and just be careful.
JimmyTee has very valid points as well. Neos are very lightweight and pack a punch.

[Jimmytee]

2 Ohms is quite a load - that why they can boast the power rating they do.
1. I would make sure that the amp is capable of a 2 Ohm load. Not sure where to find that out.
2. Do not daisy chain these speakers in parallel- that would give you a 1 Ohm load and will in all likelihood blow the amp.

So some quick "Weapons of Math Destruction:"
To get a 2 Ohm speaker to 55 Watts, that requires a 3.7 amp current at 10.4 Volts.
To get a 4 Ohm speaker to 55 Watts, it only requires 1.85 amps but 14.8 Volts - much less of an amp requirement.
To get an 8 Ohm speaker to 55 Watts, it takes less than 1 amp, and 21 volts.
Obviously the amplifier must be up to task for 2 Ohm loading.
If an amplifier at "full-tllt-boogie" is driving two, 2 Ohm speakers to 55 Watts, not counting electrical losses, that's a 7.4 amp requirement on the bike's electrical system.
I do not know what the OEM spec amp is capable of, even though the Fuse Box has a 40A fuse in the "External Amplifier" slot - don't know if that's the Sound System or something else.

I guess my recommendation is get all the info you can and just be careful.
JimmyTee has very valid points as well. Neos are very lightweight and pack a punch.

The 2 ohm load was my first concern. My experience with the OEM amplifier is that it didn't like a 2.7 ohm load let alone a 2 ohm load. You have to also consider that these impedance ratings are with the cone at zero. As soon as the cone/driver moves the impedance changes and can often dip well below the nominal rating when the cone is at full excursion.

[53driver]

The 2 ohm load was my first concern. My experience with the OEM amplifier is that it didn't like a 2.7 ohm load let alone a 2 ohm load. You have to also consider that these impedance ratings are with the cone at zero. As soon as the cone/driver moves the impedance changes and can often dip well below the nominal rating when the cone is at full excursion.

Jimmytee - do you know if that 40A fuse is for the OEM amp?

Edit: Just found it - yes it is.

[Jimmytee]

There is a 40 amp fuse for the OEM amp. I don't believe it pulls anything close to that. The wiring on that circuit is 14 awg at best.:icon_rolleyes: I know I tried to power my new amp using that circuit , just to see. No good. The amp must have been getting quite a voltage drop across that small wire because the performance suffered considerably. I ran separate or new power and speaker wires for my installation. I did use that 40 amp circuit for the trigger to turn on the new amp though.

[smokinjoe187]

There is a 40 amp fuse for the OEM amp. I don't believe it pulls anything close to that. The wiring on that circuit is 14 awg at best.:icon_rolleyes: I know I tried to power my new amp using that circuit , just to see. No good. The amp must have been getting quite a voltage drop across that small wire because the performance suffered considerably. I ran separate or new power and speaker wires for my installation. I did use that 40 amp circuit for the trigger to turn on the new amp though.

i had the same concern being the amp needed a 40 AMP fuse,what gauge wire did you run?
i'm running either 8 gauge or 10,i can never remember

[53driver]

Okay, I did some phone calling....and I have reason to believe it's true, and you will never see this number published, but the OEM amp could only be 8 Watts a side.
No wonder they can get away with 14 gauge wire!
Putting in "55 Watt" speakers won't get you any more volume unless the Sensitivity is higher than the OEM speakers.

Thread relevancy: So these JBLs have a rated Sensitivity of 91dB.
Let's assume that the amp CAN run a 2 Ohm load (big assumption).
For the same amount of Volts and current that the OEM amp is capable of producing, if the Sensitivity of the OEM speakers is 88dB or less, you should hear one "noticeable" volume increase. For each 3dB difference in Sensitivity, there will be a noticeable increase.

More data:
When the average human ear detects an increase or decrease in sound pressure, that's a 3dB change.
Each 3dB increase requires a doubling of power.
I doubt the OEM speaker sensitivity rating is below 88.

Jimmytee - you measured the resistance on the OEM speakers and they were 4ish?
So the amp at 8 Watts into 4 Ohm speakers is about 1.4 amps and 5.7 Volts per side.
Into a 2 Ohm load, that would try to hit 16 Watts with the same amp and voltage. Something is going to give out...and do it unceremoniously.
Conclusion: this amp is only rated at 8 Watts into 4 Ohm speakers, I wouldn't think about putting in 2 Ohm speakers.

Bottom line: I NEED to upgrade this system on my bike. "ccsmiley"

[Jimmytee]

Someone had posted somewhere they had heard or read that the OEM amp was rated at 80 watts per channel. My testing calls BS on that one. No way is the amp that powerful. Looking at the OEM amp though, it is fairly hefty. 8 watts x 4 is hard to believe as well. What I can tell you is that I'm pushing probably roughly 80 watts per channel up front and the difference in output is substantial . As measured with a sound pressure meter.

[53driver]

Someone had posted somewhere they had heard or read that the OEM amp was rated at 80 watts per channel. My testing calls BS on that one.

80? No way. I know 80 Watt sound. This ain't it.

[stroguy]

Few thoughts:

2. Anything above 15KHz is usually inaudible to anyone over 40 years old,

I'm 50 and I can't see some keyboards.

Good information here.....thank you gents.

[Jrockr]

You guys are good at this better than me. Also, you did convince that I should do a dry fit sound check first. I just wanted to go a different route than anyone else because of the speaker choices that we have. I will do more some shackles into it if I have to, not a big deal. Everyone on here is like a neighbor down the block coming in the garage to help me out!! Really cool:icon_mrgreen:

[98valk]

Okay, I did some phone calling....and I have reason to believe it's true, and you will never see this number published, but the OEM amp could only be 8 Watts a side.



Hi Guys,
This is all interesting stuff. But, 8 watts per side is a misunderstanding.

When I was adding rear speakers, I used an oscilloscope to see what the OEM amp was outputting. It will output 14v RMS! I realize in the real music world, that power will never be utilized, but it is there.

14v RMS into 4 ohms is about 50 watts. Even more into 3+ ohms.

If I get a chance today, I'll snap a pic of it on a scope.

[98valk]

Okay, here are some o'scope pics into a 4 ohm load.

Interesting thought. I have read several times in different places that this is an 80 watt/channel amp.
With 13v rms, you would get 80 watts into a 2 ohm speaker. Maybe this amp is rated for 2 ohms?! Sure would be nice to know ....



13329
Here is some random music over the radio. No where near clipping yet.


13327
Here is a 10khz sine wave just starting to clip above 18v.

That is only about 13v rms. Maybe my battery was more charged when I saw 14v, or maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see. Either way, there is a decent amount of power out of this OEM amp.

[DaWadd]

Great info. :yes:

[Jimmytee]

Okay, here are some o'scope pics into a 4 ohm load.

Interesting thought. I have read several times in different places that this is an 80 watt/channel amp.
With 13v rms, you would get 80 watts into a 2 ohm speaker. Maybe this amp is rated for 2 ohms?! Sure would be nice to know ....



13329
Here is some random music over the radio. No where near clipping yet.


13327
Here is a 1khz sine wave just starting to clip above 18v.

That is only about 13v rms. Maybe my battery was more charged when I saw 14v, or maybe I was seeing what I wanted to see. Either way, there is a decent amount of power out of this OEM amp.

Well, when you are measuring into a 4 ohm load , what are you using for that load?

Then what I can tell you is that when I measured the decibel output from the factory amp vs. the output measured from another amp rated conservatively at 50 watts RMS into a 4ohm load and 100 watts into a 2 ohm load that the other amp was more than twice as loud. The speakers used in this are rated at 2.7 ohms. The amp used was NVX . The testing was done with the factory volume level set at 20. With the OEM amp , you could hear it audibly losing steam when pushed past this level. The NVX never had any such distortions or reaction and continued to raise in volume with recognizable control iver the drivers.

[Jrockr]

I found out that Honda is using a 3 ohm speaker..

[Jimmytee]

I found out that Honda is using a 3 ohm speaker..

it's a 3.8 ohm speaker. For all intents and purposes, a 4 ohm.:cheers:

[Pap]

OK, after reading this thread, it has become painfully clear that I have no idea what to buy for rear speakers!
I put on a Harley tour pack with speakers that I found locally for sale. It has the speaker pods and speakers, but I want to replace the speakers.
I was looking at Hog Tunes speakers.
Now knowing that I don't know squat about speakers, can anyone direct me to speakers that will work properly with the stock radio?
I won't even pretend to understand what has been previously typed by the more educated electronic guru's here.
Watts, ohms, amps,,,,,
What numbers do I look for?
In other words, HELP !!!!:icon_redface:

[ths61]

OK, after reading this thread, it has become painfully clear that I have no idea what to buy for rear speakers!
I put on a Harley tour pack with speakers that I found locally for sale. It has the speaker pods and speakers, but I want to replace the speakers.
I was looking at Hog Tunes speakers.
Now knowing that I don't know squat about speakers, can anyone direct me to speakers that will work properly with the stock radio?
I won't even pretend to understand what has been previously typed by the more educated electronic guru's here.
Watts, ohms, amps,,,,,
What numbers do I look for?
In other words, HELP !!!!:icon_redface:

Your speaker pods will dictate the diameter and depth of the speaker and its mounting hole pattern. The newer HD tour pak speaker pods will allow larger diameter speakers than the older ones, so you will have to check your specific speaker pods.

The radio's amp (or aftermarket amp) will dictate ohms and watts (that supports the speakers).

If you are going to use the factory radio's amp, you should look for a 4 Ohm speaker with 90dB or higher efficiency.

NOTE: I would stay away from 2 Ohm speakers with the stock amp. I do not know if the amp is stable enough (others in the know, please chime in) to support 2 Ohm speakers which could damage the amp.

As speaker efficiency increases, power requirements decrease (and visa versa). Power (not volume/sound level) is doubled or halved with every 3dB gain or loss in efficiency (e.g. 3dB = 2X, 6dB = 4X, 9dB = 8X, 12dB = 16X, etc.). It takes about 10dB (or @ 10X the power) for the human ear to perceive a doubling/halving in volume/sound level. For motorcycle applications with limited space, heat and electrical concerns, it is usually better to look for a more efficient speaker than it is a more powerful amp (i.e. an 85dB speaker would require 6X the amplifier power than a 94dB speaker to produce the same volume/sound level). Since you are planning on using the stock amp, the power variable is fixed so you should optimize the speaker efficiency.

Also, look for Marine Grade speakers for water and weather durability.

J&M has some new F6B speakers made for the factory amp that will fit the dash (and possibly your rear pods), but they are on back order until Sept. 1.

HTH

J&M F6B Speakers - FSPU-GL06 (http://www.jmcorp.com/ProductDetail.asp?ProductID=FSPU-GL06)

[Pap]

Thanks!
So I'm looking for what fits and 4 ohm.
Sounds simple enough .

[ths61]

Thanks!
So I'm looking for what fits and 4 ohm.
Sounds simple enough .

And 90dB efficient or higher, and weather resistant.

[Pap]

Will do. Thanks again!

[98valk]

OK, after reading this thread, it has become painfully clear that I have no idea what to buy for rear speakers!
Now knowing that I don't know squat about speakers, can anyone direct me to speakers that will work properly with the stock radio?
:icon_redface:

Hey, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but:

I tried a bunch of different speakers as rear speakers. Only one of them (a sony speaker) was even close to matching the volume of the front speakers. And it was only about half the volume.

You can set the fader way, way, way to the rear to equalize the sound, but that just does not seem right.

I really wanted to utilize the extra power/outputs of the OEM amp by using it for rear speakers, but finally bit the bullet and added an amp for rear speakers. That has turned out great. Now my rear speakers can be adjusted to be equal or even louder than the fronts.

The front stock speakers (maybe because of their enclosure) are ridiculously efficient. It is probably impossible to find some rear speakers that will match, volume wise. At least it was for me.

On the bright side, my rear amp and speakers sound better than the fronts. The bass is sharper and the treble seems to have more life to it. I am using the OEM amp (rear speaker output) as an input to the new amp. Works for me, but did not for others.