New exhuast

[WIRED2]

Anyone have exhaust preference? ... Anyone have the Vance & Hines? ... Looking to install on my 2014 ... Thanks ...

[shooter]

I've got the V&H. Great looks , great sound , no 'drone' , easy install. I have yet to find a downside to these pipes.

[WIRED2]

Thanks ...

[bobbyf6b]

This is the only negative thing I've seen about them but it's probably why there's no drone.


http://youtu.be/AEQBNczWQmo

[wildrooster]

Here is my questions in response to the video. Does it hurt or harm the bike in anyway? Does it lower or improve the performance of the bike? If the answer is no it doesn't but it improves the drone sound than no matter how it's designed it works

[ths61]

Here is my questions in response to the video. Does it hurt or harm the bike in anyway? Does it lower or improve the performance of the bike? If the answer is no it doesn't but it improves the drone sound than no matter how it's designed it works

Looks like it would increase the back pressure on the engine.

[shooter]

Bobby the thing is , and I posted this before , the guy in the video is not a flow engineer. He pretends to know something about flow dynamics , he doesn't. I am not a flow engineer but I can tell you this. At no time is the exhaust being restricted. It is merely redirected. The exhaust flow is lengthend within the confines of the space alotted. So basically instead of running through say 3 feet if pipe maybe its running through 6 feet. Just a guesstimate. But you get the idea. I'll tell you another thing , V&H doesn't just throw a pipe together. I've been watching these guys since I was a kid. And I'm 57. Years ago I had the privilege of meeting Andrew Hines Grandpa. I remember he had time to sign an autograph and talk for a minute. These guys are winners. For years the built the fastest Suzuki's on the planet. Still do but at the same time they have made HD the fastest bike on two wheels. Yes its a complicated pipe design , but it works. After 46 years on two wheels I can feel a performance difference. I'm waiting for some longer rides to check fuel mileage. As for the guy on the video , he's a fool that believes his own hype. JMHO

[bobbyf6b]

It's good to hear both sides. I know a straight through pipe doesn't guarantee better results, especially on a motorcycle. I actually like the video because it shows the well thought out design of the muffler. I have no doubt it's a good pipe and if it would hurt the bike in any way they wouldn't make it or sell it.

[srt8-in-largo]

Shooter, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. Are you defending that design only because you have them?

It doesn't take a flow engineer to see that this thing will undoubtedly rob your engine of power. This is an exhaust system designed to create a certain SOUND... and if that's what you're after, then please enjoy it. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking this is a performance exhaust. I wouldn't even fool myself into thinking this even maintains the same power level as OEM.

[Dirtstiff's F6B]

No dog in this hunt but naturally aspirated engines require some back pressure created through the exhaust side of the valves and exhaust. Some bikes more so than others. My Honda VTX 1800 for one ran like a POS with wide open aftermarket exhausts. I spent much money figuring out what MA Honda put on it stock worked the best. I actually had duals on it that I had to weld baffles and washers to create back pressure until performance became acceptable.
My Street Glide, not so much. It seems to like un obstructed breathing..With Vance and Hines True Duals.
My guess Vance and Hines has a bit of reasoning for all the exhaust channeling they've done with the ovals. Just my opinion.
J

[53driver]

To add to the confusion....SuperTrapp's entire line is designed on back pressure and just how much plugging works best.....

13474

PS - I am not a flow engineer either, and I did get a "D" in Fluid Physics.

[Dirtstiff's F6B]

No dog in this hunt but naturally aspirated engines require some back pressure created through the exhaust side of the valves and exhaust. Some bikes more so than others. My Honda VTX 1800 for one ran like a POS with wide open aftermarket exhausts. I spent much money figuring out what MA Honda put on it stock worked the best. I actually had duals on it that I had to weld baffles and washers to create back pressure until performance became acceptable.
My Street Glide, not so much. It seems to like un obstructed breathing..With Vance and Hines True Duals.
My guess Vance and Hines has a bit of reasoning for all the exhaust channeling they've done with the ovals. Just my opinion.
J

And tuned my 450 motocross 4 stroke race bikes with White Bros version with tuning discs.
Think the video sorta misrepresents what V & H have going on with the pipes.

[shooter]

Shooter, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. Are you defending that design only because you have them?

It doesn't take a flow engineer to see that this thing will undoubtedly rob your engine of power. This is an exhaust system designed to create a certain SOUND... and if that's what you're after, then please enjoy it. But let's not fool ourselves into thinking this is a performance exhaust. I wouldn't even fool myself into thinking this even maintains the same power level as OEM.

George I'm always honest with myself. As I said I am not a flow engineer. I am an ASE certified Master Tech with over 30 years experience. Back in the seventies I used to build and drag race my CB 750 at the local track. I have a modded M109R that runs exceptionally well. In my shop I specialize in diagnostics , suspension , and driveability issues. I have customers that bring their custom cars to me for hundreds of miles. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I purchased the pipes based on research and dyno charts. I'm not telling anyone to buy them. Did they make a difference on my bike? Yes. Based on my 46 years in the saddle and the small amount of experience I have with the internal combustion engine I think I am qualified to say that. I had a couple hundred passes down the eighth mile track in the seventies and eighties with a few motocross races mixed in and some street racing. I have a good feel for my bikes George. You spend enough time with one you get to know it. There are guys on here that know what I mean , and others that will never know their bikes that well. They weren't born with the ability. I've been laying under a car since I was old enough to crawl under there with my Dad. Back in the sixties Dad had a shop in St. Louis and used to build some of the meanest eighth mile cars around. So George I made an informed purchase. I guarantee you the V&H pipes increased my performance and efficiency on the B.

[Dirtstiff's F6B]

Shooter,
I enjoyed your evaluation of the V&H pipes you choose. If they work for you, you don't owe anybody any stinking justification. I appreciate your hands on experience.
George - Criticizing somebody else' opinion about something they liked and purchased is like back seat bull sht..
Phantom should reel one or both of us in. Enjoy your 6 and VH pipes.
I'm out
J

[srt8-in-largo]

George I'm always honest with myself. As I said I am not a flow engineer. I am an ASE certified Master Tech with over 30 years experience. Back in the seventies I used to build and drag race my CB 750 at the local track. I have a modded M109R that runs exceptionally well. In my shop I specialize in diagnostics , suspension , and driveability issues. I have customers that bring their custom cars to me for hundreds of miles. I didn't just fall off the turnip truck. I purchased the pipes based on research and dyno charts. I'm not telling anyone to buy them. Did they make a difference on my bike? Yes. Based on my 46 years in the saddle and the small amount of experience I have with the internal combustion engine I think I am qualified to say that. I had a couple hundred passes down the eighth mile track in the seventies and eighties with a few motocross races mixed in and some street racing. I have a good feel for my bikes George. You spend enough time with one you get to know it. There are guys on here that know what I mean , and others that will never know their bikes that well. They weren't born with the ability. I've been laying under a car since I was old enough to crawl under there with my Dad. Back in the sixties Dad had a shop in St. Louis and used to build some of the meanest eighth mile cars around. So George I made an informed purchase. I guarantee you the V&H pipes increased my performance and efficiency on the B.

First, I apologize for my crude post... and it speaks volumes about you to not respond in kind. I think I should have expressed my doubts in a more diplomatic fashion.

Second, I'd love to have your bike, the V&H pipes, a set of OEM pipes, and a day at the dyno. Maybe I'm missing something... maybe my extrapolation of auto exhausts into the motorcycle realm is not quite 1:1... maybe I'm talking apples and you're talking oranges... but there's something here that I don't see.

Do these pipes increase torque but decrease hp, in which case we're both right... or are you saying you believe these pipes are putting down more torque AND hp? It's hard to dismiss the extensive experience you have around machinery, but, if such is the case, butt dyno's have fooled some other very fine folks.





...

George - Criticizing somebody else' opinion about something they liked and purchased is like back seat bull sht..
Phantom should reel one or both of us in. Enjoy your 6 and VH pipes.
I'm out
J

Hey Dirt... chill... I like Shooter too. Yeah I coulda and shoulda chose some better words, sorry about that, but there's no need to bump yourself out of this or any thread. Let's talk bikes... and mods... and accessories... and if you ever have doubts, questions, concerns about anything I post, I'd be glad to hear them... good or bad.

I'm in
G

:icon_biggrin:

[53driver]

In George's defense....he hasn't had his F6B for a few weeks now and she is still in a coma undergoing major surgery.

[shooter]

First, I apologize for my crude post... and it speaks volumes about you to not respond in kind. I think I should have expressed my doubts in a more diplomatic fashion.

Second, I'd love to have your bike, the V&H pipes, a set of OEM pipes, and a day at the dyno. Maybe I'm missing something... maybe my extrapolation of auto exhausts into the motorcycle realm is not quite 1:1... maybe I'm talking apples and you're talking oranges... but there's something here that I don't see.

Do these pipes increase torque but decrease hp, in which case we're both right... or are you saying you believe these pipes are putting down more torque AND hp? It's hard to dismiss the extensive experience you have around machinery, but, if such is the case, butt dyno's have fooled some other very fine folks.




Hey Dirt... chill... I like Shooter too. Yeah I coulda and shoulda chose some better words, sorry about that, but there's no need to bump yourself out of this or any thread. Let's talk bikes... and mods... and accessories... and if you ever have doubts, questions, concerns about anything I post, I'd be glad to hear them... good or bad.

I'm in
G

:icon_biggrin:
George , I posted this before. Cycle World dynied a 103 Harley. Granted its not a B , but it is still an internal combustion engine. The results were a 5% increase in HP and a 9% increase in TQ. Thats what popped up first on a google search. I'm sure there are others.

[WIRED2]

Hey Shooter did you have to do fuel mapping changes or leave stock? ...

[shooter]

Its stock for now. With this system it will compensate for increased air flow to a point. This fall I will tear down and put in a K&N then send off the ecm to Guhl. That's when I will be able to take advantage of the increased air flow. I did reset the system.

[srt8-in-largo]

George , I posted this before. Cycle World dynied a 103 Harley. Granted its not a B , but it is still an internal combustion engine. The results were a 5% increase in HP and a 9% increase in TQ. Thats what popped up first on a google search. I'm sure there are others.

I thought you said you didn't just fall off the turnip truck :icon_biggrin:

A magazine testing the product of an advertiser isn't always worth the paper it's printed on. Gimme something REAL man! No butt dyno... no magazine pish-posh... your bike on a dyno, same day with before and after results of V&H and Honda exhaust. I'll pay for it; tell me where to Paypal the money :yes::yes:

[srt8-in-largo]

In George's defense....he hasn't had his F6B for a few weeks now and she is still in a coma undergoing major surgery.

I'm jonesing bad Steve :icon_biggrin:

At this point I'm starting to think all that fantastic riding was all just a dream. I hope to get the bike back this week, but wouldn't be surprised if it was next week.

[christian52]

:icon_deadhorse:just get the cobras and use some loose fitting earplugs.....you know they look cool and you want them!!

[Jrockr]

New exhaust with dyno, anyone?

[seadog]

This is the only negative thing I've seen about them but it's probably why there's no drone.


http://youtu.be/AEQBNczWQmo

If this guy knew anything about Vance & Hines he would know that building, tuning, and testing for the best flow and horsepower gain without damaging the engine is what the company does best. What this guy does best is up for grabs but he definitely doesn't have a clue as to what he is talking about and he will probably buy some POS exhaust that will not produce anything for his engine that is good and get rid of the one that would have benefited his ride.....

[srt8-in-largo]

Here's what JLyon posted a while ago; Cobra pipes, K&N filter, and Bazzaz tuner. A stock bike will be at about 100hp and 107 torque.

J you still around?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ocGBjzpeAjk/VUa2ngq0zjI/AAAAAAAACwQ/tz0kuyPlOwA/s800/Dyno%2520-%2520F6B-%2520JLyon-HondaF6B-Cobra%2520pipes%252C%2520K%2526N%2520%2520filter%2 52C%2520Bazzaz%2520tuner.jpg

[srt8-in-largo]

IMO the power curves of a GL1800 denote its' workhorse nature. An engine built for speed will have significantly more peak hp than tq... but an engine built for work will have a dominant tq curve, especially down low, to pull a trailer and all the passenger and cargo you can load.

I think the significant falloff in the upper RPM range is due to the inefficiencies created by how our intake and exhaust manifolds attach to the engine; it's just not capable of efficiently moving LARGE volumes of air.

[srt8-in-largo]

Hey Watso or Shooter, can one of you guys contact V&H and point them to this thread?

I'd love to have them explain to us what this exhaust is all about, why all the "weirdness", and how can the bike still make power with it.