Went "scraping" today

[53driver]

I rode the Harley to work again today.....still getting her out from her winter slump....

One of my co-workers has a '13 Street Glide and he is the consummate "non-aggressive," "too safe to be safe" rider, always over thinking and verbalizing his thoughts, seemingly looking for reinforcement or approval.
He approached me today and said, as if in confession...."I've never scraped my floorboards. I don't know how I will react and I don't want to find out when I HAVE to turn and scrape." :yikes:
Good on him for realizing that.

So we went out to the range markings in the parking lot after work and rode the "peanut" from the BRC2. I ALWAYS scrape something doing this on Saorla and the only way not to scrape on a big Harley is to take everything WAY too slowly.
Once I got him doing the "Outside, Inside, Outside" turn technique and doing the "Slow, Look, Press, & Roll" in EACH turn, I let him 'chase' me around so he could watch me, but I quickly caught up to him instead. We stopped, and I told him to stop letting the bike take him for a ride and for him to RIDE THE DAMN BIKE!
This seemed to wake him up and the next 4 corners he took, I heard scraping on 3. He had to stop and catch his breath as the sound and feel he found a bit unnerving. Also, he was scraping both his floorboards and his after market exhaust - which was shiny chrome and cost him a lot, I imagine. V&H Ovals, I think.

Anyway, a few more times around in both directions and he finally loosened up a bit.
Stopped again, but as soon as he started to verbally "over-think" I told him to shut up and ride.
Didi a few more laps, his confidence increasing.
Next time he stopped, he thanked me.
He actually did become a better rider in that 35 minutes.

I tell this story because many people find scraping the first 99 times VERY alarming and they think it is wrong somehow.
I've had HOG Ride Captains on the BRC2 who refused to even attempt the peanut because they feared scraping their expensive chrome.
Scraping is a natural result of lean angle and especially if the bike is a cruiser, bagger, lowered, and/or equipped with after market gizmos, scraping something is part of the riding experience.
I am quickly discovering that the F6B and Harley are two completely different animals in turns. F6B turning techniques can be used on a Harley, but in my case, I'm gonna be draggin' chrome.
Saorla's after market floorboards' outboard edges are lethal weapons right now.

Embrace scraping and practice it. Find the limits of your machine and yourself as you become more comfortable with each other.
And please don't let scraping something suddenly surprise you in the middle of a turn such that you over-react and do not finish the turn on two wheels.
Cheers.

[BIGLRY]

If I ain't scraping I ain't riding :icon_lol:

[hiflyer]

First time I got aggressive in a turn on the F6B, almost tore my foot off. You can't just haphazardly have your feet anywhere on this bike. Now if I get into a turn aggressively, I get my feet up on the balls and out of the way, then you may have to quickly move right or left to shift or brake. Understand what I'm saying? Also when turning from a stop, you have to pick your feet up quickly or they can hang up on the rear crash bar. You can't be sloppy in either situation.

[wylbur78]

First time I got aggressive in a turn on the F6B, almost tore my foot off. You can't just haphazardly have your feet anywhere on this bike. Now if I get into a turn aggressively, I get my feet up on the balls and out of the way, then you may have to quickly move right or left to shift or brake. Understand what I'm saying? Also when turning from a stop, you have to pick your feet up quickly or they can hang up on the rear crash bar. You can't be sloppy in either situation.

Yep been there and done that already in my short 5 weeks of riding the f6b. I've caught my left foot twice under the rear crash bar and drug my foot right off the right leg this past Saturday running up hwy 259 in the Ouachita mountains. Scared the crap outta me. But you're absolutely right, you have to be aware where your feet are in a turn. Great advice!!.notworthy.

[srt8-in-largo]

Great story! I can only say at least your guy is *trying*. I have a friend who has, over the past few years, grown so terrified of traffic that he doesn't ride at all anymore.

I'm still not completely fluent in slow speed maneuvers on this bike... I "think" the longer wheelbase is throwing me out of whack.

[53driver]

First time I got aggressive in a turn on the F6B, almost tore my foot off. You can't just haphazardly have your feet anywhere on this bike. Now if I get into a turn aggressively, I get my feet up on the balls and out of the way, then you may have to quickly move right or left to shift or brake. Understand what I'm saying? Also when turning from a stop, you have to pick your feet up quickly or they can hang up on the rear crash bar. You can't be sloppy in either situation.

Oh yeah....my Valk with that extended kickstand deployment lever caught me daydreaming one day when I was in gear, rolling forward to the 4 way stop sign and my left toe hit some leftover concrete and pushed my heel/ankle under that lever and about snapped my foot off.
Sloppy is always detrimental to health.

[Doug44]

I rode the Harley to work again today.....still getting her out from her winter slump....

One of my co-workers has a '13 Street Glide and he is the consummate "non-aggressive," "too safe to be safe" rider, always over thinking and verbalizing his thoughts, seemingly looking for reinforcement or approval.
He approached me today and said, as if in confession...."I've never scraped my floorboards. I don't know how I will react and I don't want to find out when I HAVE to turn and scrape." :yikes:
Good on him for realizing that.

So we went out to the range markings in the parking lot after work and rode the "peanut" from the BRC2. I ALWAYS scrape something doing this on Saorla and the only way not to scrape on a big Harley is to take everything WAY too slowly.
Once I got him doing the "Outside, Inside, Outside" turn technique and doing the "Slow, Look, Press, & Roll" in EACH turn, I let him 'chase' me around so he could watch me, but I quickly caught up to him instead. We stopped, and I told him to stop letting the bike take him for a ride and for him to RIDE THE DAMN BIKE!
This seemed to wake him up and the next 4 corners he took, I heard scraping on 3. He had to stop and catch his breath as the sound and feel he found a bit unnerving. Also, he was scraping both his floorboards and his after market exhaust - which was shiny chrome and cost him a lot, I imagine. V&H Ovals, I think.

Anyway, a few more times around in both directions and he finally loosened up a bit.
Stopped again, but as soon as he started to verbally "over-think" I told him to shut up and ride.
Didi a few more laps, his confidence increasing.
Next time he stopped, he thanked me.
He actually did become a better rider in that 35 minutes.

I tell this story because many people find scraping the first 99 times VERY alarming and they think it is wrong somehow.
I've had HOG Ride Captains on the BRC2 who refused to even attempt the peanut because they feared scraping their expensive chrome.
Scraping is a natural result of lean angle and especially if the bike is a cruiser, bagger, lowered, and/or equipped with after market gizmos, scraping something is part of the riding experience.
I am quickly discovering that the F6B and Harley are two completely different animals in turns. F6B turning techniques can be used on a Harley, but in my case, I'm gonna be draggin' chrome.
Saorla's after market floorboards' outboard edges are lethal weapons right now.

Embrace scraping and practice it. Find the limits of your machine and yourself as you become more comfortable with each other.
And please don't let scraping something suddenly surprise you in the middle of a turn such that you over-react and do not finish the turn on two wheels.
Cheers.

Help !! I need some help in fully understanding
What is "the peanut from the BRC2
Who or what is Saoria

I have ridden for 55+ years and hear you loud and clearly good post. The only thing I hate about scrapping things is when they are solid parts that dig in and unload your rear wheel or worse. I just never get over that and my nuts in my throat when that happens ! Sort of like dying, I really don't fear it, it's just when it happens you are gone for such a long time 

[Fla_rider]

Funny, I haven't scrapped yet! maybe I should take the training wheels off.

[53driver]

Help !! I need some help in fully understanding
What is "the peanut from the BRC2

Doug -
1000 pardons....
The BRC2 is MSF's "next" course after the Basic Rider Course (BRC).
It used to be called the "Experienced Rider Course."
It is usually given on a weekend day - about 6 hours. Each rider brings their own bike and uses it. We do some of the same skills that we did in the BRC, and some advanced skills to help the rider and bike learn to get along. The "Peanut" is one of those advanced exercises. The riding area looks like a peanut.....
13611
Riding in either direction, (we do both), accelerate with purpose down the backstretch, slow to 'an appropriate entry speed' entering the turn, look at where you want to go using 'outside, inside, outside' path of travel, press on the inboard handlebar to get the turn initiated, drop the inboard elbow as required, and then roll on the throttle out of EACH little turn, getting enough momentum up for the next turn to keep the bike upright.
To keep the bike within the lines and at "street speeds", bike lean must take place and for larger dressers with after market goodies, this usually means scraping something shiny.


Who or what is Saorla?

Saorla (SAYR-la) is my '95 Heritage. From Saerlaith, Celtic for "noble" + "queen" or "sovereignty."
Isleen (ISH-leen) is my F6B, Celtic for "vision."


I have ridden for 55+ years and hear you loud and clearly good post. The only thing I hate about scrapping things is when they are solid parts that dig in and unload your rear wheel or worse. I just never get over that and my nuts in my throat when that happens ! Sort of like dying, I really don't fear it, it's just when it happens you are gone for such a long time 

Yes sir. "Digging in" is NOT good. Knowing how far one can go whilst scraping before using your bike as a fracking device is obviously as important.
Over-reacting to the first few scraping episodes in a controlled environment is preferred to finding out "real-time."

[CheesyRider]

Let's not forget the role of body positioning in relation to scraping.
https://rideapart.com/articles/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-motorcycle-body-position-for-sport-riding

[Kurare79]

I already scraped dozens of these to dust.
13613

And also my shoes got their marks.
13614

Then i heard about the peg savers in one thread in this board from Dan Peppers (http://www.pepsx.com/products.html). I ordered three pairs of the titanium savers.

They work perfect! What i love about them is that they are more sliding over the ground than the little bolts do with their harsh sound if scraping. They also do make a cool :icon_cool: rain of sparkles if you take the turns hard.

13615 13616

[hiflyer]

I already scraped dozens of these to dust.

That's a cool tip, I'm going to get some myself, how ya doing over there, Karim?

[Limoles]

Scraping is funny . I did it many times in past . It's challenging and somehow exiting , so is asking for more . After my last Dragon's exercise of ... "riding improvements" , I came back home with scratched r1150 cylinders , damaged jacket and pants . The good news - helmet was untouched .

[stevenolts]

How hard can you push or lean the F6B? Will it hang in solid when leaning hard and fast?

I always seem to get chicken and feel like it will slip out on me. I always used to scrape my HD Fatboy and I scratch the highway bar on my 81 CB750K. But it feels like it is going to get away from me on the F6B. I push hard but every now and then I feel I am going to far and get scared. This is not good because if you are afraid you can chicken out and wreck because of that.

Steve

[Kurare79]

That's a cool tip, I'm going to get some myself, how ya doing over there, Karim?
You're welcome! http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Trinken/smilie_trink_005.gif Thanks, i'am doing fine over there and i hope you, too! I am often dreaming about riding my F6B in the beautiful United States http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Flaggen/smilie_flag_006.gif Such a vast country and you can travel all around with the same kind of money, language and nearly equal standards of living. And all that different kind of places from mountains, deserts, beaches, swamps and giant cities. You got just everything in one country over there. Maybe next year i'll be able to go there with my F6B. Won't have more than two weeks, but i'll do best out of it!

@Steve: Trust me: The F6B lean angle is compared to a "normal" or "sports" bike pretty low. There really isn't anything to fear. If you hear it scratching there is still some more lean angle needed, before you touch with the hard things like the cage around the engine. I would test it on a free space like a big Walmart parking area (after shopping hours of course). Starting with a big circle and taking it more and more narrow till you can hear it. Same thing counter clockwise. Afterwards alternating left and right. And if you feel safe you can try it on the street.
Within time you are getting a very good feeling how far you can go, before it scratches or when it will scratch.

[Hornblower]

Then i heard about the peg savers in one thread in this board from Dan Peppers (http://www.pepsx.com/products.html). I ordered three pairs of the titanium savers.

They work perfect! What i love about them is that they are more sliding over the ground than the little bolts do with their harsh sound if scraping. They also do make a cool :icon_cool: rain of sparkles if you take the turns hard.

13615 13616

I use these titanium pucks as well. Big Dawg introduced me to those about a year ago. No doubt they save your pegs and create some really nice fireworks as well. For the aggressive rider bunch these are, IMHO, a must.

[stevenolts]

So if I am not scraping the bike can usually handle the speed of the curve I am attempting to go through?

[stevenolts]

There is one thing I saw about the guy catching his foot under the rear crash bar. I only did this once on my initial test ride. I thought that it could rip your foot off if you caught it wrong. I was turning left from a stop sign and the bike wobbled a little so I put my foot out like a dirt bike to correct the wobble and caught my foot.

It is very important that people are aware of this. I almost forgot about this, but it nearly prevented me from buying the bike. Then I thought about how great the bike is and never looked back again.


Steve

[stevenolts]

If you are in a turn hard can the bike slide before it scrapes?

[stroguy]

There is one thing I saw about the guy catching his foot under the rear crash bar. I only did this once on my initial test ride. I thought that it could rip your foot off if you caught it wrong. I was turning left from a stop sign and the bike wobbled a little so I put my foot out like a dirt bike to correct the wobble and caught my foot.

It is very important that people are aware of this. I almost forgot about this, but it nearly prevented me from buying the bike. Then I thought about how great the bike is and never looked back again.


Steve

It only need to happen once. I did it pushing my bike while she was not running and said oh boy that's not good. Pointed this very important requirement to the wife that her feet must stayed glued to her boards even when the worst happens. Those big roundy things are there to protect you. The throttle and clutch are there for many reasons. They will get you out of trouble, but you need practice practice practice.

Thanks Steve, I don't scrape enough. My BRC2 was cancelled in April due to rain. I have it in two weeks and can't wait to scrape and learn more.

[stroguy]

If you are in a turn hard can the bike slide before it scrapes?

My first scrape on the F6B was a turn I did not approach perfectly and had to lean into it more than normal. I was ready for the possibility of the scrape and at no time did the tire or bike want to slide. Have no fear.

Much better to scrape than fixate on the apex of the turn and drive into a tree or guardrail. Look past the turn, the bike will do what you need.

[BIGLRY]

Here is an easy way to see what hits first without getting any road rash on you or your bike. I use this method when ever I change foot pegs, exhaust or suspension parts, i.e. lowering forks or shorter rear shocks, phat low profile tires or going darkside. "darth/vader2'
You will need a sheet of plywood 4'x8' or anything flat and about that size along with a friend as a helper.

Either you or the friend set on the bike holding it straight up with the side stand up, next place the 4'x8' plywood parallel and against the sides of the tires flat on the ground.

Now, with the bike perfectly straight up and down, you or your helper tilt the plywood up keeping the lower edge against the tires. Now you will see what hits first on the bike as if it were in a lean while riding, you will want to do this on both sides of the bike. What you are doing is imitating the lean angle of the bike by making the plywood the road. While this is not perfectly exact due to lack of suspension loading in corners when the bike is in motion, it will give you a damn good idea what is going to hit first.:yes:


Tip; The person on the bike should have as much weight on the bike as possible to spring the suspension. You can do this on the center stand, but the bike is not at the proper height as it would be if it were rolling.
This is a good test when changing to aftermarket foot pegs and exhaust so you know the lean limits without causing and damage to you or you steel steed. You can determine what hits next as the foot pegs fold up when scraping by continuing to lift the plywood. :301:

[stroguy]

Here is an easy way to see what hits first without getting any road rash on you or your bike. I use this method when ever I change foot pegs, exhaust or suspension parts, i.e. lowering forks or shorter rear shocks, phat low profile tires or going darkside. "darth/vader2'
You will need a sheet of plywood 4'x8' or anything flat and about that size along with a friend as a helper.

Either you or the friend set on the bike holding it straight up with the side stand up, next place the 4'x8' plywood parallel and against the sides of the tires flat on the ground.

Now, with the bike perfectly straight up and down, you or your helper lift the plywood up and see what it hits first on the bike, you will want to do this on both sides of the bike.
What you are doing is imitating the lean angle of the bike by making the plywood the road.

Tip; The person on the bike should have as much weight on the bike as possible to spring the suspension. You can do this on the center stand, but the bike is not at the proper height as it would be if it were rolling.
This is a good test when changing to aftermarket foot pegs, exhaust so you know the lean limits without causing and damage to you or you steel steed. You can determine what hits next as the foot pegs fold up when scraping by continuing to lift the plywood. :301:

Ingenious Bigs.

I'm so ignorant I first started reading and I was thinking the friends were there to lean the bike over while you sat on it. Would have to big healthy corn fed dudes to pull that off.

Excellent stuff.

[Kurare79]

If you are in a turn hard can the bike slide before it scrapes?

No worries. On normal street conditions I was never able to make the F6B slide in a turn while scraping. At the end of the turn if you pull the throttle to high and early you can make a little "power slide" which may look cool but is totally insufficient for gaining distance.
With the possible leaning angle of the F6B you are in almost every road condition on the safe side without having to fear that you slide/slip away while turning hard. At least that's what I experienced the last 15.000 miles.

[srt8-in-largo]

I agree with all that's been said about scraping; assuming tires, weather, and road conditions are good, the 6 will take everything you can throw at it... and ask for more. I would only qualify that statement by saying that proper throttle control and a smooth technique are also assumed. Proper roll-on of the throttle keeps the suspension loaded and stable.



...

Saorla (SAYR-la) is my '95 Heritage. From Saerlaith, Celtic for "noble" + "queen" or "sovereignty."
Isleen (ISH-leen) is my F6B, Celtic for "vision."


I assumed those were Gaelic names... a magical language to listen to. Is Gaelic a form of Celtic?

[Limoles]

You're welcome! http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Trinken/smilie_trink_005.gif Thanks, i'am doing fine over there and i hope you, too! I am often dreaming about riding my F6B in the beautiful United States http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Flaggen/smilie_flag_006.gif Such a vast country and you can travel all around with the same kind of money, language and nearly equal standards of living. And all that different kind of places from mountains, deserts, beaches, swamps and giant cities. You got just everything in one country over there. Maybe next year i'll be able to go there with my F6B. Won't have more than two weeks, but i'll do best out of it!

@Steve: Trust me: The F6B lean angle is compared to a "normal" or "sports" bike pretty low. There really isn't anything to fear. If you hear it scratching there is still some more lean angle needed, before you touch with the hard things like the cage around the engine. I would test it on a free space like a big Walmart parking area (after shopping hours of course). Starting with a big circle and taking it more and more narrow till you can hear it. Same thing counter clockwise. Afterwards alternating left and right. And if you feel safe you can try it on the street.
Within time you are getting a very good feeling how far you can go, before it scratches or when it will scratch.


Karim ,

If you decide to come over and specify objects of your interest , I'll join you and try to show the most spectacular places , which I already know . Promise you to enjoy all of them . Shipping your B for 2 weeks isn't good idea - it will be to expensive , so I can lend you one of my bikes . Let me know , when ready . Meanwhile I'm preparing all gears for 2005 Inzane to Paris and passing Germany is in our schedule already . Europe has also tons of attractions to offer and will be nice to see familiar sites again. Life is beautiful anyway and can make people happy everywhere .

Les

[53driver]

Thanks Steve, I don't scrape enough. My BRC2 was cancelled in April due to rain. I have it in two weeks and can't wait to scrape and learn more.

I'm hoping you learn a lot and have fun. I have yet to scrape the F6B in the peanut...she hasn't done it yet. I was on the Harley for this drill. I have scraped Isleen hough.....it was in an awesome lean angle and we were functioning as one.

[53driver]

I assumed those were Gaelic names... a magical language to listen to. Is Gaelic a form of Celtic?

The Celtic languages are a language family inside of the Indo-European languages.
There are six Celtic languages still spoken in the world today, spoken in north-west Europe.
They are divided into two groups, the Goidelic (or Gaelic) and the Brythonic (or British).

[stroguy]

Well then there is my challenge! No scrape on da peanut. I have still yet to master the F6B bi-polar clutch. The first 10 minutes after firing her up the clutch grabs with just a lil release. After she is warm though it takes a noticeable amount more of lever release to get to the go go point. More driving should solve that.

[Kurare79]

I would only qualify that statement by saying that proper throttle control and a smooth technique are also assumed. Proper roll-on of the throttle keeps the suspension loaded and stable.+1 :yes:



If you decide to come over and specify objects of your interest , I'll join you and try to show the most spectacular places , which I already know .
That sounds great! If plans get clear, i'll let you know!


Meanwhile I'm preparing all gears for 2005 Inzane to Paris and passing Germany is in our schedule already.
I'll write you a private message.