Just curious....

[bigswole31]

This has come up in a few other threads, but i never saw anything conclusive, and I didn't want to hijack a thread.

Has anyone ever gotten a definitive answer from anyone who can reasonably speak for Honda USA (Honda rep, dealer, etc.) about why our F6B has no ABS, reverse gear, and is JUST getting cruise control?

It's always seemed strange that this is the case, when virtually every direct competitor in the US bagger market has had cruise and ABS as standard features at a similar price point to the F6B before the F6B was first introduced. They also offer accessories like navigation and seat warmers, but Honda does not. It just seems strange that Honda would enter such a popular market without giving the same standard features/ optional accessories that the competitors who were already in that market do.... on trop of the great engine.

Add in the fact that they give ABS, cruise AND reverse to the Australian market for a comparitive price to what we pay for our bikes and I am thoroughly confused. :shrug:

I once asked a dealer, and he told me that the US market doesn't want all that stuff. He said that when Honda tried to put ABS on the full wing, riders demanded that they didn't. I can't see how that could possibly be true, but I'm new to the Honda family.

So if anyone knows anything, please clue me in.

I'm just curious, so I respectfully ask that the officers of the HDF (Honda Defense Force) refrain from the "You should be grateful for what Mother Honda has given us!", "Just shut up and ride!", "You're asking a lot for $20K", etc. types of responses.:icon_rolleyes: I am a happy owner who gladly purchased what was available to me at the time. I LOVE MY BIKE! 'surrender2' I would just like to know why the decision was made to NOT make things available to the US market that they have no hesitation about giving to other (smaller) markets for around the same price that we're charged.

Thanks! :icon_cool:

[ths61]

This has come up in a few other threads, but i never saw anything conclusive, and I didn't want to hijack a thread.

Has anyone ever gotten a definitive answer from anyone who can reasonably speak for Honda USA (Honda rep, dealer, etc.) about why our F6B has no ABS, reverse gear, and is JUST getting cruise control?

It's always seemed strange that this is the case, when virtually every direct competitor in the US bagger market has had cruise and ABS as standard features at a similar price point to the F6B before the F6B was first introduced. They also offer accessories like navigation and seat warmers, but Honda does not. It just seems strange that Honda would enter such a popular market without giving the same standard features/ optional accessories that the competitors who were already in that market do.... on trop of the great engine.

Add in the fact that they give ABS, cruise AND reverse to the Australian market for a comparitive price to what we pay for our bikes and I am thoroughly confused. :shrug:

I once asked a dealer, and he told me that the US market doesn't want all that stuff. He said that when Honda tried to put ABS on the full wing, riders demanded that they didn't. I can't see how that could possibly be true, but I'm new to the Honda family.

So if anyone knows anything, please clue me in.

I'm just curious, so I respectfully ask that the officers of the HDF (Honda Defense Force) refrain from the "You should be grateful for what Mother Honda has given us!", "Just shut up and ride!", "You're asking a lot for $20K", etc. types of responses.:icon_rolleyes: I am a happy owner who gladly purchased what was available to me at the time. I LOVE MY BIKE! 'surrender2' I would just like to know why the decision was made to NOT make things available to the US market that they have no hesitation about giving to other (smaller) markets for around the same price that we're charged.

Thanks! :icon_cool:

I would assume it is the same marketing mindset as their cars. When they come out with a new body style, the US market gets screwed. Each subsequent year, they add a feature or 2 to keep the buyers buying the newer model of the same body style until they finally change body styles and start over again. Foreign markets tend to get the toys well before the US market does.

[flat6bagger]

When the insurance company ran my VIN numbers on my 13,they informed me that I get a discount because my bike has ABS.
I told her that it did not.
She said the VIN numbers show that it does and that is what they are going with.
I said ok and gladly took the discount.

[srt8-in-largo]

Sometimes regulations and certifications drive options differences and release schedules amongst countries... but surely those couldn't be it.

[yellow rex]

When I purchase my trailer Tom told me to send a letter to NHSTA and ask them why
other markets get the most valuable piece of safety on the F6b and the US does not,
as Tom said our safety and life is just as important as any other country.

[BIGLRY]

IMO it is all about 13639 and why the F6B is much cheaper than Honda's flagship the GL1800, to keep the cost down don't put on the extras. Watch as the goodies get added through the next few years and how the price will go up and if Honda had all the goodies now what could they add in later years? :301:

[Kurare79]

In the European Community every motorcycle released by 2016 has to have ABS by law. Already now nearly every motorcycle with more than 500ccm has ABS. It's just a standard for us.

I think it is, because companies like Bosch, who produce the ABS systems, are located in Germany they have a very good touch to the Motorcycle Magazines who then teach us, that we need that system and also to the politicians who make the laws.

But i am also surprised that the American version comes without the ABS, because Goldwing market number one is the US. So i thought you would get those things first. (I've never seen another F6B on the road in two years, than my own. I am so lonely http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Traurig/smilie_tra_001.gif)

[FlaMike]

IMO it is all about 13639 and why the F6B is much cheaper than Honda's flagship the GL1800, to keep the cost down don't put on the extras. Watch as the goodies get added through the next few years and how the price will go up and if Honda had all the goodies now what could they add in later years? :301:

I think BL got it. Less stuff, cheaper price. They wanted a reasonable price spread between F6 and a base Wing. The Goldwing comes in multiple levels with increased price per level. Personally, I would have paid a little more for the choice of cruise/abs. The thing that baffled me, was that the new Valk has ABS/ non ABS choice but not the F6.


As far as US market not wanting ABS, that's what Harley thought. Their 1st use of ABS, were on Police Bikes only, around 10yrs ago. A few yrs later, they made it onto consumer touring bikes. And now I think just about any Harley can have ABS.


In general, I don't think any bike manufacturer really knows what the market wants. They just throw stuff against a wall and see what sticks, especially Honda.

[Steve 0080]

I call B.S. on ABS costing $1000 per unit.... it is in just about all vehicles on the roads in the USA... If the manufactures wanted to they could !!! Maybe just waiting until forced to...

I am not going to buy a new bike this year...waiting for reverse...is it possible to get a overseas bike shipped stateside ? Just change out the speedo???

[bigswole31]

So we're just being raked for cash, huh?

Bryster (in Australia) just bought a 2015 with ABS, cruise control and reverse for a RP of AUS $26995 which equals $21322 American dollars.

In the U.S., a brand new 2015 with cruise and NO ABS or reverse has an RP of $20499.

That's a difference in cost of $823.

Had I been given the choice, I would have gladly paid 800 bucks for cruise, ABS, and reverse. I bought a '13 a year ago, so none of these options were available.

Honda maintains a price disparity of a few grand between the F6B and the Goldwing in all of their territories without stripping so many features. It seems that they do this here simply becaise they can.

[flat6bagger]

How can anyone blame Honda?
After all no one was dragging us into the dealerships to buy the non ABS/reverse,non cruise models.
I don't get it.

[bigswole31]

How can anyone blame Honda?
After all no one was dragging us into the dealerships to buy the non ABS/reverse,non cruise models.
I don't get it.

Blame Honda??? Blame Honda for what??? Asking "Why?" is not tantamount to blaming.

If you've been on the board for a while, you''ve seen this question come up. We all willingly made our purchase of this great machine. We then find that the manufacturer of this great machine sold us a stripped down version, while selling a loaded version in other territories for a similar price. Are they free to do this? ABSOLUTELY! Likewise, we are free to question the decision.

Add to this that we aren't even allowed to buy the OEM options that are given as standard in other territories, realizing that there is obviously not a technical/mechanical reason for these functions not being standard/available as options in the US.

Maybe you couldn't care less, but the fact that this has come up several times shows that some of us do. If no one bothers to ask, then nothing will ever change. I for one would have loved to have gotten the Aussie configuration, and I'd like to know why this wasn't an option for U.S. buyers. Maybe there is a great reason that we all would agree with (doubt it), but I would like to know. No blaming here. Just curious.

[stroguy]

F6B lives matter.

[hiflyer]

How can anyone blame Honda?
After all no one was dragging us into the dealerships to buy the non ABS/reverse,non cruise models.
I don't get it.

I don't either.

[flat6bagger]

I guess some of you are missing my point.
We as those who bought the F6Bs without these features are part of the reason why.
It is dollars and cents for Honda.
As long as people like us are willing to buy these bikes without them,why go through the extra expense to do so?

[valkmc]

I would love to see the sales numbers in both places. My thoughts are they are close after being adjusted for population. I would really like to see the average profit per bike in both places. I wonder if shipping and government bribes, taxes, etc. have an effect on the decision?

[flat6bagger]

bigswole,
your correct it has come up a lot.
You are saying that some of you care about it more than I.
I find that statement interesting considering that at the time of your purchase you yourself did not care enough about it not to buy one.

[srt8-in-largo]

The funny thing is, to me, the decisions made in the product conceptualization stage of the F6B. We should all know by now that big corporate products are not brought to market on a whim, nor without a full understanding of the market including the competitive landscape.

The F6B is a direct attempt to capture folks in the bagger crowd, a crowd dominated by Harley. Honda knows full well (or they should've known!) the feature set of Harley baggers which include ABS and cruise. For Honda to try to pull buyers away from the competition... and then release a bike with lesser features is the mind blowing part that I don't get.

IMO, the lack of features is nothing more than product positioning relative to the full Goldwing. I also agree that these feature will EVENTUALLY make it onto the F6B.

[Primo]

Marketing 101.Plain and simple. Always leave the customer wanting more. Then sell it to them a few model years down the road.

[bigswole31]

bigswole,
your correct it has come up a lot.
You are saying that some of you care about it more than I.
I find that statement interesting considering that at the time of your purchase you yourself did not care enough about it not to buy one.

I don't think you understand... and I thinnk you also missed the part about the HDF in the original post. :icon_wink:

I, like many others who have voiced this question, walked into a dealership and checked out what was on offer. I went online to look at the specs and options that were available. I liked the look and engine pedigree, so I made a purchase.

Here's the thing: I, and many other people on this forum, had no knowledge that we were getting less than other markets until after the purchase was already made. When you pull up Honda's website, you only get what's available in your country. Only forums like this one and foreign-made Youtube videos clued us in to the fact that things were not being made available to us.

Armed with this new-found knowledge, SOMEof us wonder why Honda would do this. You offer a "Why wouldn't they..." Fair enough. Perhaps it IS simple greed and abuse of the "wealthy American customers". Maybe the Honda USA Execs say, "All of the parts and options that other countries get are machined, engineered and ready to go, BUT we'll hold off giving them to OUR customers and add them in as a brand new features every few years with a slight price hike." Perhaps you're correct. Some of us would like to know. Call us .... CURIOUS. :yikes:

And for the record...

We still ride and enjoy our F6Bs
We don't have buyer's remorse
We don't have time machines. (well, I know that I don't at least.)
We liked our F6Bs enough to purchase them in the face of the U.S.-available offerings from competitors
We're not about to storm the gates of Honda and demand retrofits or refunds


So, as the thread title indicates... I'm just curious.

[bigbird]

Apparently it has to do with what standard features the regional distributors request from Honda Japan.
If Honda Europe requests ABS and reverse on their F6B's, that's what they get.
For a price, of course.
Don't feel that Honda USA is ripping you off.
You get what you pay for.

[bigswole31]

The funny thing is, to me, the decisions made in the product conceptualization stage of the F6B. We should all know by now that big corporate products are not brought to market on a whim, nor without a full understanding of the market including the competitive landscape.

The F6B is a direct attempt to capture folks in the bagger crowd, a crowd dominated by Harley. Honda knows full well (or they should've known!) the feature set of Harley baggers which include ABS and cruise. For Honda to try to pull buyers away from the competition... and then release a bike with lesser features is the mind blowing part that I don't get.

IMO, the lack of features is nothing more than product positioning relative to the full Goldwing. I also agree that these feature will EVENTUALLY make it onto the F6B.


I suspect that you are right... Makes no sense when you consider HD, Victory, and others, but all things considered, your last statement about "positioning relative to the full Goldwing" seems to fit what we see, because they surely made no attempt to match the competition's standard feature-set/available options. Lucky for Honda the F6B is such a looker and rides so well.

[USMARINE]

Marketing 101.Plain and simple. Always leave the customer wanting more. Then sell it to them a few model years down the road.

Primo very true, my Daddy a former owner of several car dealers told me "(NEVER EVER BUY A VEHICLE ON ITS FIRST PRODUCTION YEARS)"
Because they always tend to have a few faults and later models will get better. I guess I didn't listen.:icon_evil:

[Limoles]

Primo very true, my Daddy a former owner of several car dealers told me "(NEVER EVER BUY A VEHICLE ON ITS FIRST PRODUCTION YEARS)"
Because they always tend to have a few faults and later models will get better. I guess I didn't listen.:icon_evil:

What "faults" ?

[opas ride]

You guys want some "cheese with your whine"...C'mon man as they say, enjoy what you have and be happy...We are so fortunate to enjoy and have what we do in the USA and ride the bike we choose...If your un-happy with Honda don't buy another....Nothing is perfect in this old world.....Ride safe....

[ratsass]

I'm almost ready to pull the trigger on a 2015 (gotta have that cruise) but I hear about the Canadians and Europeans getting ABS and reverse as well as the cruise with current models. I can live without the reverse but the added safety factor of ABS is something I'd really like to have! Anybody have any info on what we might find on our US F6Bs in 2016?

[shooter]

OK , I'm not trying to down anyone. I just don't get the whole abs thing. This bike has the best brakes I've ever seen on a bike. Personally I think abs is for people that don't know how to drive/ride. Again I mean no disrespect. Reverse??. 57 years old. Never had it. Figure I don't need it. And mist of us didn't pay $20,000 for the bike. I paid $16,995 out the door. No way I'm trading for abs and reverse. I have a good bike. Runs great , handles great. I'm not giving up the option that may not fit or work on a new model and not spending the time to change them. I knew what I was getting when I bought it. It was acceptable at the time and is now. Just my 2cents.

[shooter]

You guys want some "cheese with your whine"...C'mon man as they say, enjoy what you have and be happy...We are so fortunately to enjoy and have what we do in the USA and ride the bike we choose...If your un-happy with Honda don't buy another....Nothing is perfect in this old world.....Ride safe....

You're the MAN Opas.

[shooter]

Primo very true, my Daddy a former owner of several car dealers told me "(NEVER EVER BUY A VEHICLE ON ITS FIRST PRODUCTION YEARS)"
Because they always tend to have a few faults and later models will get better. I guess I didn't listen.:icon_evil:

What faults are you talking about Marine? That little shield. If you're 5 ft. tall its perfect. Other than that , I see no issues.

[srt8-in-largo]

You guys want some "cheese with your whine"...C'mon man as they say, enjoy what you have and be happy...We are so fortunate to enjoy and have what we do in the USA and ride the bike we choose...If your un-happy with Honda don't buy another....Nothing is perfect in this old world.....Ride safe....


OK , I'm not trying to down anyone. I just don't get the whole abs thing. This bike has the best brakes I've ever seen on a bike. Personally I think abs is for people that don't know how to drive/ride. Again I mean no disrespect. Reverse??. 57 years old. Never had it. Figure I don't need it. And mist of us didn't pay $20,000 for the bike. I paid $16,995 out the door. No way I'm trading for abs and reverse. I have a good bike. Runs great , handles great. I'm not giving up the option that may not fit or work on a new model and not spending the time to change them. I knew what I was getting when I bought it. It was acceptable at the time and is now. Just my 2cents.

+2 :icon_biggrin:

Agree 100% but this is still an interesting topic to discuss. Shooter, I also agree about the ABS thing.

If you're in a panic braking situation where a real threat exists of the front tire breaking loose and the bike going down, I'm sorry to inform everyone, ABS is not gonna save you.

[Limoles]

+2 :icon_biggrin:

Agree 100% but this is still an interesting topic to discuss. Shooter, I also agree about the ABS thing.

If you're in a panic braking situation where a real threat exists of the front tire breaking loose and the bike going down, I'm sorry to inform everyone, ABS is not gonna save you.

George . It's something mysterious about ABSs in Goldwings at all . My local dealer is claiming , that 90% of GW buyers are demanding absence of it and do not want to spent $1,000 for this option . Any logic to such a requests , or just the way to save some bucks ?

[shooter]

Guys , this is just old Shooter talking , nobody has ever proven to me that ABS will stop a vehicle faster than no abs. On wet pavement , maybe , if you don't know how to handle your machine. I've drug the rear tire on the B before. She really squats. Have any of you ever had an ABS moment in your vehicle? That's where you are on the brakes hard , all of a sudden you realize you are going to make it , then the abs releases pressure on the system. Your butt puckers and all of a sudden your not sure. Pull a trailer behind a truck enough and it will happen. When I pull a heavy trailer I pull the ABS fuse on my F150. You shouldn't do that , but I do. Cause I've had an ABS moment and dont want to have another.

[srt8-in-largo]

George . It's something mysterious about ABSs in Goldwings at all . My local dealer is claiming , that 90% of GW buyers are demanding absence of it and do not want to spent $1,000 for this option . Any logic to such a requests , or just the way to save some bucks ?

Interesting Les. The average age of the GW rider may have something to do with this statistic; riders who learned on non-ABS bikes may prefer that.

Personally, I don't want an electronic disconnect between me and the ground... whether it's ABS or something like traction control. These are much more useful on cars IMO, but on bikes I think they can give a false sense of security.

[srt8-in-largo]

Guys , this is just old Shooter talking , nobody has ever proven to me that ABS will stop a vehicle faster than no abs. On wet pavement , maybe , if you don't know how to handle your machine. I've drug the rear tire on the B before. She really squats. Have any of you ever had an ABS moment in your vehicle? That's where you are on the brakes hard , all of a sudden you realize you are going to make it , then the abs releases pressure on the system. Your butt puckers and all of a sudden your not sure. Pull a trailer behind a truck enough and it will happen. When I pull a heavy trailer I pull the ABS fuse on my F150. You shouldn't do that , but I do. Cause I've had an ABS moment and dont want to have another.

I've had several ABS moments in my car... and I feel it's a useful feature in it (the car). One of the mechanical reactions is a SHARP kickback and then shuddering of the brake pedal; I'd rather not experience that on the bike. If you're riding a bike in a way where ABS kicks in in the rain, you're over riding the conditions.

ABS is most effective on dry surfaces. On wet surfaces there's no guarantee that it can PREVENT a tire slide.

[Limoles]

Guys , this is just old Shooter talking , nobody has ever proven to me that ABS will stop a vehicle faster than no abs. On wet pavement , maybe , if you don't know how to handle your machine. I've drug the rear tire on the B before. She really squats. Have any of you ever had an ABS moment in your vehicle? That's where you are on the brakes hard , all of a sudden you realize you are going to make it , then the abs releases pressure on the system. Your butt puckers and all of a sudden your not sure. Pull a trailer behind a truck enough and it will happen. When I pull a heavy trailer I pull the ABS fuse on my F150. You shouldn't do that , but I do. Cause I've had an ABS moment and dont want to have another.

In comparison to your analogy , on the dry pavements I found NO DIFFERENCE in panic , or semi-panic braking . Previously owned and ridden BMW's have had ABSs and I use to accept them , because they were there already and I had no choice . Personally , riding B , I feel "safer" , putting more trust to my skills , than to devices causing false state of mind . Additionally , I try to ride only , when is no rain . I've been already in bad storms , so I'm familiar with wet conditions , but adjusting speed was necessary . Common sense above all .

[srt8-in-largo]

In comparison to your analogy , on the dry pavements I found NO DIFFERENCE in panic , or semi-panic braking . Previously owned and ridden BMW's have had ABSs and I use to accept them , because they were there already and I had no choice . Personally , riding B , I feel "safer" , putting more trust to my skills , than to devices causing false state of mind . Additionally , I try to ride only , when is no rain . I've been already in bad storms , so I'm familiar with wet conditions , but adjusting speed was necessary . Common sense above all .

AMAZING

You and Shooter agree on something :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

[Limoles]

AMAZING

You and Shooter agree on something :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

Because he wasn't able to shoot me , yet .... :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

I love you guys , anyway . Sometimes and if necessary , need to challenge those , who like to "disagree" .

[Kurare79]

And most of us didn't pay $20,000 for the bike. I paid $16,995 out the door. No way I'm trading for abs and reverse. Very good point. For the European Version you can ADD $10K to your out of the door price. I personally don't think ABS and reverse is worth this kind of price.

[shooter]

AMAZING

You and Shooter agree on something :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

Hey , that don't mean we are sleeping together.

[Limoles]

AMAZING

You and Shooter agree on something :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

He wants to hear my confession first :icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin::icon_biggrin:

[Steve 0080]

I agree with Shooter ... how did we live so long w/o ABS....just sayin....

[taxfree4]

We can all agree the F6B is not a "new" model but a version, stripped down, of a 40 year old model, 37 at the time of the release. What doesn't make sense to me is you had a bike with cruise, you downward engineer it to release the bike without it, charge $1000 more for a Deluxe with a couple of goodies, one not being cruise, when the most important goodie for a touring bike is cruise not a centerstand, heated grips or a backrest. The technology was there already so you eliminate it only to reintroduce 2 models later c'mon, bad enough you put the umbrella up my ass, don't open it. When I was being cooked alive by my Road Glide and rode into the Honda Dealer there weren't many choices so cruise was the least of my problems, as long as it was liquid-cooled was all I cared about. BTW I am completely satisfied with the F6B, the bike, as usual it's manufacturer, like Harley, that I'm ranting about. The Kaoko cured the cruise problem and now it's almost perfect, once the Russell Day-Long goes on THEN it'll be perfect.

[grendl]

I'm in agreement with a few in this conversation in that I dont care that my bike came with no reverse,or cruise,or ABS. Let me put it another way,I wouldn't have cared if it didnt have a radio. I like the short shield as one of my pleasures of riding is the wind. The only thing I would do to the shorty windshield is tint it.
I wanted the dependability of a Gold Wing drive train,I got excellent handling which is a deal breaker if it didnt and the thing is STILL the sexiest bike on the road.
I have done a 1000 mile day,run state to state and found my "little morning rides" have now become much longer in distance and time.I've made the mistake of parking downhill (twice) and wont do that again but I got it out,ridden in cold and rain,been able to stop,swerve or slow it down in a couple of panic situations.
In short Boyz,I paid my dime and still think it was money well spent.
About the radio,I have fallen in love with it and the iPOD connection so I take that back:icon_redface:
Oh,did I mention I LOVE this bike ?