Modulating headlight debate

[flat6bagger]

I will never have them.
I can't stand them.
In my opinion,modulating headlights give a false sense of security to the rider that has them installed.
Nothing more.
Just like deer whistles.
There are no statistics that prove modulators make someone safer while motorcycle riding that I am aware of.
There are countless opinions written in support,but no real FACT based reports as I said that I am aware of.
If there is,someone post it.
Here are a two FACTS that I gathered from talking to people about them and my own experience.

1) People sometimes think it is police,so they slow down pull over and this disrupts traffic flow.

2) The light flashing is so flippin bright it drowns out the ability to see the turn signals when the motorcycle is coming at you.

I have heard the argument countless times that goes something like this.
"The fact that they are distracting makes someone notice and that is the point."
That also makes them dangerous in some instances because they actually confuse drivers to the point they don't know how to react.
There goes the safety aspect right over the windscreen.

If you want them,install them.
It's your right and I will defend that right with you.
Just don't expect to ever ride behind me.
I will either wave you by or leave the ride.
They are distracting and extremely annoying in the mirrors.


Doug

[willtill]

Ah yes, the great Headlight Modulator debate. :icon_mrgreen:

We all use what works for us. And as always.. opinions vary.

Your two stated "facts" are not facts. They are just personal held opinions. :nono: It is a rare event that a cager will pull over for me; thinking I am an emergency vehicle. But that is good in a way; gives me a clear road ahead.

They do not "obscure" a motorcycle front turn signals. If they were that dangerous; the Federal government would not allow them on the roads.

Think about it.

Here is an "opinion" that is can be construed actually as a fact.... I sustain almost near zero "failure to yield" events by cagers when running a headlight modulator; as opposed to not running one. As evidenced yesterday (twice) when cagers violated my line of travel while astride my F6B; which currently does not have a headlight modulator.

If I am in "a ride" I do flip my beams to low; which disables the high beam modulation. I am a caring person and realize that in a pack of motorcycles; the modulation can be irritating to other bikers within it

I also will turn off modulation if stopped behind a cager (such as at a stoplight); if it appears that I am reflecting too much into their mirrors. However while underway; that modulation is turned back on....

And I do agree with you on "deer whistles" though. They don't work. Deer will do what they want. They are stupid and they cook up good. :shhh:

[flat6bagger]

Actually the two examples are 100% factual to the person/persons who experience them.
And as for "They do not "obscure" a motorcycle front turn signals"
This is not all together accurate.
I personally have had this happen when waiting to turn and an older wing had them installed was approaching me.
I did not see his turn signals.
All I saw was this bright flashing light coming at me.

By the way I am not posting this to start arguments.

I just want to see different opinions on both sides of "the great modulaor debate.":icon_biggrin:

Doug

[Travelor]

Have to weigh in on the use of them. I've been riding for 48 years, and the two accidents I was in early on were drivers pulling out in front of me at an intersection. I wish modulators were available back then. I remember when people bitched when the Feds made it mandatory to use headlights all the time. "It's terribly, that light shining in my mirror is really a distraction". I've used a headlight modulator on my bikes for at least 20 years and my "perception" reality is that they increase my visibility and therefore my safety.

The riding conditions are becoming increasing dangereous as drivers who no longer give a s#%t about the rules run left turn red lights, ride the shoulder to make a turn right under the sign that prohibits it, make prohibited left turns across traffic to enter a business and ride the restricted median space so they don't have to wait in line to get up to their left turn lane. And I'm supposed to care that they might be bothered by my headlight modulator? Screw that, I'm tired of caring what others think, I am only concerned that I am seen as I approach the intersection or the azhole crossing the double yellow coming the other way to get where they are going a little quicker.

I don't set out to piss people off, and if there is really slow traffic and I am in a stream of cars I will turn it off. But once the flow opens up, and there is opportunity for that texting soccer mom to pull into traffic right ahead of me, it's going back on.

On my other bike that has a HID low beam, I had to use the high beam for the modulator, and yes, that is more of an "irritation" issue. On the F6B, I wired it into the low beams, and the effect is better due to the dual beams and quality of the lighting, with much less impact to the driver ahead of me. I don't run the high beams with the modulator; as I said, I am not out to piss anybody off. But I am not going to give ANYBODY the "I didn't see him" excuse if I can legally do anything about it.

[RickJ]

"It is a topic about which I know NOTHING...so I will speak at great length"

Just an observation, the rider who kind of brought this up originally lives and rides in the Baltimore/DC corridor. Having driven that a number of times in a cage, and seen the insanity of that ride- I would consider ANY advantage a 2wheeler can obtain, short of a handlebar mounted 50cal. machine gun, to be fair and wise. So while I might have a vague negative thought in general theory, the specifics of THAT situation, I believe, give weight to his preference. Context can change an argument.

[Greg O]

"It is a topic about which I know NOTHING...so I will speak at great length"

Just an observation, the rider who kind of brought this up originally lives and rides in the Baltimore/DC corridor. Having driven that a number of times in a cage, and seen the insanity of that ride- I would consider ANY advantage a 2wheeler can obtain, short of a handlebar mounted 50cal. machine gun, to be fair and wise. So while I might have a vague negative thought in general theory, the specifics of THAT situation, I believe, give weight to his preference. Context can change an argument.
Agreed, depending on where you ride may justify how much if any additional safety features should be added to you bike. I do a lot of riding in town with the texting 16 year olds and texting soccer moms,also drivers over 80. So I want my bike lit up like a chistmas tree. If you are riding most of your rides in the country or in small towns, maybe the safety features that came with your bike is adequate. This is just my opinion and you can take it with a grain of salt.

[Steve 0080]

I will never have them.
I can't stand them.
In my opinion,modulating headlights give a false sense of security to the rider that has them installed.
Nothing more.
Just like deer whistles.
There are no statistics that prove modulators make someone safer while motorcycle riding that I am aware of.
There are countless opinions written in support,but no real FACT based reports as I said that I am aware of.
If there is,someone post it.
Here are a two FACTS that I gathered from talking to people about them and my own experience.

1) People sometimes think it is police,so they slow down pull over and this disrupts traffic flow.

2) The light flashing is so flippin bright it drowns out the ability to see the turn signals when the motorcycle is coming at you.

I have heard the argument countless times that goes something like this.
"The fact that they are distracting makes someone notice and that is the point."
That also makes them dangerous in some instances because they actually confuse drivers to the point they don't know how to react.
There goes the safety aspect right over the windscreen.

If you want them,install them.
It's your right and I will defend that right with you.
Just don't expect to ever ride behind me.
I will either wave you by or leave the ride.
They are distracting and extremely annoying in the mirrors.


Doug


I, along with the rest of the board respect your opinion...BUT...not sure how you can have so much to say about a product that you have never been on the other side of? I HAVE used the product and know for a fact that they do help people SEE you which is what we should be after. Are they distracting, yes.....so

[flat6bagger]

"not sure how you can have so much to say about a product that you have never been on the other side of"

It's simple.
I am a person who researches topics constantly.
I just don't take peoples word for things.
I have talked to people who do have them (a few said that they just put them on because they hoped it helps.)
I have talked to motorists about their opinion of what they see when approached by a motorcycle that has them.
Heck, I have talked to Police Officers,some have no opinions,some see a purpose,but some also do not like them.
I also know what I see and what I don't see.
How can anyone say that having them makes it safer?
You are speculating that the drivers are seeing the flashing,but you aren't in their vehicle so you don't know what they are seeing or not seeing or doing for that matter.
To believe that the texting kid or soccer mom is going to pay any more attention to you because you have flashing lights on your bike than any other motorcycle is more of a "hope" thing.
If they help so much because it is a flashing light that draws more attention,then answer this question.
Why is it that so many police cars,firetrucks and ambulances still get ran into.
They have lights on and sirens blowing.

And as I originally said.
Show me one piece of documentation that says that they help.

Doug

[RickJ]

"not sure how you can have so much to say about a product that you have never been on the other side of"

If they help so much because it is a flashing light that draws more attention,then answer this question.
Why is it that so many police cars,firetrucks and ambulances get ran into almost daily?
They have lights on and sirens blowing.

Doug

almost daily? link? vs MC run in to daily? link?

[flat6bagger]

Sorry Rick,
you are correct.
I will remove that.
Got caught up in my own argument.
Figure of speech to emphisize a point about flashing lights.
Just stating that they have lights flashing and sirons blowing and still get hit.

Doug

[Travelor]

"How can anyone say that having them makes it safer?
You are speculating that the drivers are seeing the flashing,but you aren't in their vehicle so you don't know what they are seeing or not seeing or doing for that matter.
To believe that the texting kid or soccer mom is going to pay any more attention to you because you have flashing lights on your bike than any other motorcycle is more of a "hope" thing.
If they help so much because it is a flashing light that draws more attention,then answer this question.
Why is it that so many police cars,firetrucks and ambulances get ran into almost daily?
They have lights on and sirens blowing."

Everything you say here is your opinion (which you are certainly entitled to), but is contradicted by those who do use the produce and have first hand experience with its effectiveness. Since you have never used the product, you are really talking out of ignorance, regardless of your so-called research. I really don't put much weight to your argument.

Don't like 'em, don't use 'em! And thanks, I'll be happy to have you "wave me by".

[flat6bagger]

Here are some statistics for the USA.
You may be surprised by the amount of wrecks there are.


http://www.arnolditkin.com/Personal-Injury-Blog/2015/July/Statistics-on-Emergency-Vehicle-Accidents-in-the.aspx

Doug

[flat6bagger]

Personally those who use them are just giving an opinion on what they believe to be true.
Also I could care less if anyone agrees or doesn't agree with me.
I also could care less if someone chooses to ride with me or not because of my opinion.
I am far from ignorant.
Use them if you like.
I am just saying I won't.
I am done with this subject as now it is becoming personal.
I guess I should have seen that coming.:icon_lol:


Doug

[DarkKnt]

I would think that if emergency vehicles get hit more than others, it has something to do with them "going like hell through traffic"... To mitigate this requirement, they try to attract attention with things like "flashing lights". Somebody thinks it works! And intuition has me agree. I could only imagine how many would get hit if they didn't have them... But I agree with Doug's comment on people thinking you are an official vehicle of some sort. I do tend to hate those wankers who drive around in old highway patrol cars, as they do disrupt traffic.

[willtill]

Personally those who use them are just giving an opinion on what they believe to be true.
Also I could care less if anyone agrees or doesn't agree with me.
I also could care less if someone chooses to ride with me or not because of my opinion.
I am far from ignorant.
Use them if you like.
I am just saying I won't.
I am done with this subject as now it is becoming personal.
I guess I should have seen that coming.:icon_lol:


Doug

Doug,

If you rode a bike equipped with headlight modulators; you would see the difference. In the city or suburbs; you would be aware of it within the hour of first riding with them.

You would see and observe cagers observing you; in a new manner that you have not experienced before. Because you are a visual exception to what cagers are normally expecting. You are more noticeable. That is precisely what you and the rest of us want. For your motorcycle to be noticed.

Whether your motorcycle is liked or not because of it; is a completely mute issue. There are people out there whom just hate motorcyclists period. But I'd rather occasionally annoy someone with a Modulator and be noticed; than be carried to my grave by six others; because I was not seen. If I only had a Modulator....

And let us be clear on one thing. Headlight Modulators do not flash. They modulate the intensity of the light from 100% to 17% and back; within a prescribed amount of time.

[flat6bagger]

Will
You may be 100% correct if I had them I would agree.
I was just talking to my wife on the subject a few minutes ago.
I sure thought during my questioning people on this I asked her what she thought of them.
She says I did not.
She told me exactly what I did not expect.
She said they are annoying,but she does notice them right away.
I was also asked by her "how much do they cost?"
"We need those."
SOB now this whole damn thread is worthless because she wants them on there now.
I don't stand a chance.


Doug

[willtill]

If Momma's not happy... no one is happy.

If you love her... you would buy them (for her...) :biggthumpup:

:icon_mrgreen:

Give 'em a chance Doug. You can turn them off during the daytime if you want. You are in control of the modulation if needed. :yes:

[flat6bagger]

I guess I have to eat crow and also have to ask.
Who is the best vendor to buy them from?
How hard are they to install?



Doug

[Travelor]

Kissan makes one that is designed for the dual headlights of the F6B. The connections can be a task to install, especially if you are putting them on the high beam so that you can turn them on and off if needed. But the high beams of the F6b can be really annoying (!!), so I put the modulator connections on the low beams (much easier to get to) with a cut-out switch just in case I didn't want them on all the time. I used a small SPST, you just put it inline with one of the sensor wires and it interupts the signal as if it were dark. Switch not really needed, the sensor will turn off the modulation at dusk.

Here is picture of my sensor position. Position is critical due to components under this panel, and best to use a step drill. I put the sensor in a rubber grommet rather than the plastic mount that comes with it.

[Steve 0080]

Doug, you know I love ya...but I just fell out of my chair and spotted myself reading your posts......Way to funny.... Make sure you show us your "new" lights if you come to Franklin !!!!

[RickJ]

Sorry Rick,
you are correct.
I will remove that.
Got caught up in my own argument.
Figure of speech to emphisize a point about flashing lights.
Just stating that they have lights flashing and sirons blowing and still get hit.

Doug

ha- I know you'd do the same to me!! just bustin'...sort of. By the way, you would be interested to know that 47% of statistics are made up on the spot anyway...no 49%...maybe 52%

[Steve 0080]

willtill...If you rode a bike equipped with headlight modulators; you would see the difference. In the city or suburbs; you would be aware of it within the hour of first riding with them."



There are no stats to back this up but the results are stunning !!!! I put my on my son's bike to give him a fighting chance when he first got his MC license...

I had cars pull directly into my path the very next day!!!

[BIGLRY]

While there are no studies supporting the headlamp modulator as an effective motorcycle safety device, some research suggests headlamp modulators may increase the conspicuity of motorcycles. If ya want to read more scientific type stuff then this pdf file "Development and Testing of Techniques for Increasing the Conspicuity of Motorcycles and Motorcycle Drivers" is one supportive research paper. This is a final report by Paul L Olson which has something to say about headlight modulating along with other things.
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/487/43121.0001.001.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
I personally don't run one as I believe no one can see me on a MC no matter what I do. And if they can see me then they are out to kill me so I ride that way....very defensively at all times.
I do believe you definitely stand out more with a modulating headlight and the modulating of the light at the proper frequency does force one to look, just like the modulating light on the front of a train... you can't help but look, same for the cycle rate of emergency vehicle lights.

[willtill]

Doug... I replied to your PM about this... -Will

[willtill]

Kissan makes one that is designed for the dual headlights of the F6B. The connections can be a task to install, especially if you are putting them on the high beam so that you can turn them on and off if needed. But the high beams of the F6b can be really annoying (!!), so I put the modulator connections on the low beams (much easier to get to) with a cut-out switch just in case I didn't want them on all the time. I used a small SPST, you just put it inline with one of the sensor wires and it interrupts the signal as if it were dark. Switch not really needed, the sensor will turn off the modulation at dusk.

Here is picture of my sensor position. Position is critical due to components under this panel, and best to use a step drill. I put the sensor in a rubber grommet rather than the plastic mount that comes with it.

Your installation of the modulators to work with the low beams are interesting. But I do believe that is illegal. Federal law states that the high beam is the only beam that is to be modulated.

With saying that though... I personally don't see an issue with installing them on the low beams of the F6B. Hell of a lot easier to get to (at least on this bike). And the effect is still preserved; regarding what the modulator is designed to do.

You would definitely need a "cut out" though as you have designed, for current headlight modulator units don't take into account that they are being installed with the low beam only. The normal "built in" feature to disable a modulator.. is to switch the headlamp beam to low... to disable it. Or put something over the modulator's ambient light sensor; so the modulator thinks it's dusk... instead of daylight.

[F6B1911]

I've had pretty good results with a Hi-Viz jacket and a Conspicuity vest.

3261

[willtill]

I've had pretty good results with a Hi-Viz jacket and a Conspicuity vest.

15609

And that will work too! :yes: Use EVERYTHING available.

[Travelor]

Willtill - there is a popular misconception that modulators are only allowed on the high beam. That is incorrect - here is the pertinent language extracted from from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, 49 CFR Parts 571 [Docket No. 97-57; Notice1] Executive Order 12866

Motorcycle Headlamp Modulation System
a.7.9.1 A headlamp on a motorcycle may be wired to either the upper or the lower beam from its maximum intensity to a lesser intensity provided that: (the rest of the section deals with the actual specifications that the modulator must meet).

Point is, it can go on either high or low beam, but must meet the frequency and intensity cycle requirements AND cease modulation when the light level is less than 270 lux (again, from the language provided in 49 CFR Parts 571.

My setup meets the requirements, it is sensor driven and the low beams remain fully functional should the sensor fail (just like if wired to the high beams). I added the cut-out switch for flexibility in case I want to turn off the modulation during the day, but since the normal function is to modulate during the day the switch is not really required.

Ride safe.

[flat6bagger]

How about this on a high viz T Shirt..

MOTORISTS SHOT TO DATE FOR CUTTING ME OFF

7


Doug:icon_lol:

The 7 is to be centered,but my computer for some reason keeps putting all to the left.

[Greg O]

I won't put a modulator on my bike. The good lord has a date for me to leave this earth which I do not know when it is or how it is going happen. Could be a motorcycle accident, car accident, heart attack, cancer, or just plain old age and I'm good with it.

[willtill]

Willtill - there is a popular misconception that modulators are only allowed on the high beam. That is incorrect - here is the pertinent language extracted from from the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, 49 CFR Parts 571 [Docket No. 97-57; Notice1] Executive Order 12866

Motorcycle Headlamp Modulation System
a.7.9.1 A headlamp on a motorcycle may be wired to either the upper or the lower beam from its maximum intensity to a lesser intensity provided that: (the rest of the section deals with the actual specifications that the modulator must meet).

Point is, it can go on either high or low beam, but must meet the frequency and intensity cycle requirements AND cease modulation when the light level is less than 270 lux (again, from the language provided in 49 CFR Parts 571.

My setup meets the requirements, it is sensor driven and the low beams remain fully functional should the sensor fail (just like if wired to the high beams). I added the cut-out switch for flexibility in case I want to turn off the modulation during the day, but since the normal function is to modulate during the day the switch is not really required.

Ride safe.

I stand corrected. :icon_doh:

[willtill]

I won't put a modulator on my bike. The good lord has a date for me to leave this earth which I do not know when it is or how it is going happen. Could be a motorcycle accident, car accident, heart attack, cancer, or just plain old age and I'm good with it.

We have a fatalist here. Nothing wrong with that.

I like to think of myself as a realist.

Though I do believe that anyone's religious entity would like that same one; to take precautions in order to preserve themselves in adverserical scenarios. :icon_wink:

[Travelor]

This thread is going a bit astray, but I think I will respond (probably foolish, but what the heck).

Personally, I think I'll go with Matthew 4:5-7 - "Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. “If you are the Son of God,” he said, “throw yourself down. For it is written:
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.”

Jesus answered him, “It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

So I will continue to wear a helmet, use my seatbelt, take my blood pressure medicine and give thanks to the Almight for eveny blessing and each day that I have.

Peace be unto you, and good riding!

[Steve 0080]

Here ya go Doug.....

http://kisantech.com/mag/index.php/pathblazer.html?p=1



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFrrt7O_mhs

[dickiedeals]

I for one absolutely hate riding with anyone with the Modulating Headlight. For one it gives me a Headache looking at it in the rear views. There are other thoughts I have that would surely provoke much debate. Fact is when in charge I do not allow them in the Group. I feel like they are a Hazard. Many States have outlawed them for good reason. A good bright set of MP3 960's will make you visible without being a nuisance. .....................Dickie

[flat6bagger]

I for one absolutely hate riding with anyone with the Modulating Headlight. For one it gives me a Headache looking at it in the rear views. There are other thoughts I have that would surely provoke much debate. Fact is when in charge I do not allow them in the Group. I feel like they are a Hazard. Many States have outlawed them for good reason. A good bright set of MP3 960's will make you visible without being a nuisance. .....................Dickie

Thank God.
I thought I was the only one in the world as I was getting attacked for giving my opinion for not having them installed.
Going so far as being called "ignorant."
I sat my wife down and explained my feelings about them.
She then understood my views.
I will not install them.
I am going to keep wearing my neon shirts,tattoo sleeves (those get everyone's attention as they look crazy at me when I have them on) and use my riding experience of over 45 years.


Doug

[willtill]

I for one absolutely hate riding with anyone with the Modulating Headlight. For one it gives me a Headache looking at it in the rear views. There are other thoughts I have that would surely provoke much debate. Fact is when in charge I do not allow them in the Group. I feel like they are a Hazard. Many States have outlawed them for good reason. A good bright set of MP3 960's will make you visible without being a nuisance. .....................Dickie

Dickie... you are bloviating.

States cannot "outlaw" them. Headlight Modulators are legal in all 50 states. The Federal law authorizing their use prohibits any state from defining them as illegal.

See below:

Title 49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108

http://ca1i.bizland.com/its_the_law.htm

[flat6bagger]

Sorry Will,but I just can't bring myself to installing them.
I just don't believe in my heart that they help.
Thanks for the info,by the way.:icon_biggrin:


Doug

[willtill]

Sorry Will,but I just can't bring myself to installing them.
I just don't believe in my heart that they help.
Thanks for the info,by the way.:icon_biggrin:


Doug

No problem Doug. To each their own. :yes:

[Steve 0080]

No problem Doug. To each their own. ...................Priceless !!!!!!!

[flat6bagger]

No problem Doug. To each their own. ...................Priceless !!!!!!!

Oh yeah
That's hilarious.

Doug

[dickiedeals]

Dickie... you are bloviating.

States cannot "outlaw" them. Headlight Modulators are legal in all 50 states. The Federal law authorizing their use prohibits any state from defining them as illegal.

See below:

Title 49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108

http://ca1i.bizland.com/its_the_law.htm

Cool I stand corrected..........I still hate them.................Dickie

[kcmike]

Will
You may be 100% correct if I had them I would agree.
I was just talking to my wife on the subject a few minutes ago.
I sure thought during my questioning people on this I asked her what she thought of them.
She says I did not.
She told me exactly what I did not expect.
She said they are annoying,but she does notice them right away.
I was also asked by her "how much do they cost?"
"We need those."
SOB now this whole damn thread is worthless because she wants them on there now.
I don't stand a chance.


Doug

Doug, this made me laugh. The right to have your own opinion flies out the window when the boss chimes it. Not laughing at you, buddy, just makes me chuckle because the married guys on here can SO relate. Be safe Doug.

[flat6bagger]

Your correct Mike.
I knew you weren't laughing at me.
I tend to lean to her way of thinking because she always seems to know what is the correct answer.
I think I have her convinced that we don't need them.
That will last about a day then she will ask "did you order the modulators yet?


Doug

[dickiedeals]

Dickie... you are bloviating.

States cannot "outlaw" them. Headlight Modulators are legal in all 50 states. The Federal law authorizing their use prohibits any state from defining them as illegal.

See below:

Title 49 USC 30103 (b1) (US Codes) prohibits any state from forbidding a system that conforms to FMVSS 108

http://ca1i.bizland.com/its_the_law.htm



Willtill I'm not quite sure why you would say such a thing about someone you know nothing about....Yes I learned something I didn't know. Thanks for the link. Next time keep your insult to yourself Bloviating ,
sounds like the pot calling the Kettle Black.......................Dickie (30 years Law Enforcement Retired)

[willtill]

Willtill I'm not quite sure why you would say such a thing about someone you know nothing about....Yes I learned something I didn't know. Thanks for the link. Next time keep your insult to yourself Bloviating ,
sounds like the pot calling the Kettle Black.......................Dickie (30 years Law Enforcement Retired)

Dickie... it's just when I see people talking out of the side of their neck; making things up; etc... I just like to respond.

From one Bloviator to another... Enjoy your retirement. :icon_wink:

[terryboyle]

We have a fatalist here. Nothing wrong with that.

I like to think of myself as a realist.

Though I do believe that anyone's religious entity would like that same one; to take precautions in order to preserve themselves in adverse scenarios. :icon_wink:

A quick death would be fine, I have had a wonderful life and at this point no regrets,
however,
I am trying to avoid a painful/crippling injury that takes me off the motorcycle for the rest of my days.

[druggr]

I will never have them.
I can't stand them.
In my opinion,modulating headlights give a false sense of security to the rider that has them installed.


Doug

I too will never have them. I ride as if I am invisible to others and take full responsibility if someone hits me. I too find them annoying.

[53driver]

Well, just like any tool, there's a proper time and a place for use, and definitely a proper time and place for non-use.
They should be installed on your high beams so you have the option of turning them on and off.

Uses:
- riding in formation - NO
- riding in slow/stopped traffic - NO
- riding in consistent traffic, i.e. behind the same car for any period of time - NO

When the above criteria are NOT in effect AND:
- riding on open country roads - YES
- riding in neighborhoods - YES
- riding in populated areas - YES
- riding on highways and super slabs - YES

You simply are more visible, but that doesn't take away your obligation to ride like you are invisible.
Ride safe & responsibly,
Steve

[willtill]

I too will never have them. I ride as if I am invisible to others and take full responsibility if someone hits me. I too find them annoying.

It's much more annoying when someone pulls out in front of you... because they didn't see you coming.

I can't (and I won't try) to please everyone in the world with their usage. Though I can most certainly please myself by using them. :icon_wink:

[K/W Motoman]

Steve: ( 53driver ) is right on with his observations. In the early 70’s I put a product called The Firefly on my XS650 Yamaha and noticed the cagers noticing right away. The cagers would slam on their brakes instead of finishing their left hand turn in front of me. Now much older and probably no wiser I still install a headlight modulator. But as Steve pointed there is time and place for their use. Country roads where the locals don’t see many motorcycles is a great example because they come down their long gravel driveways and are not use to having to stop
but when they see the flashing freight train coming they hit the brakes and watch with open mouths as the mighty F6B comes rolling by. They are worth it but be considerate of others when in traffic.

[willtill]

Steve: ( 53driver ) is right on with his observations. In the early 70’s I put a product called The Firefly on my XS650 Yamaha and noticed the cagers noticing right away. The cagers would slam on their brakes instead of finishing their left hand turn in front of me. Now much older and probably no wiser I still install a headlight modulator. But as Steve pointed there is time and place for their use. Country roads where the locals don’t see many motorcycles is a great example because they come down their long gravel driveways and are not use to having to stop
but when they see the flashing freight train coming they hit the brakes and watch with open mouths as the mighty F6B comes rolling by. They are worth it but be considerate of others when in traffic.

This is why I have removed them from my high beams and installed them on my low beams. The F6B's high beams are way too pronounced. The modulators actually are more "friendly" in traffic on it's low beams.

...and traffic is where you need them. If they're not on... you're not being noticed. :nono:

[Circle-5]

I hate modulating headlights. But sometimes I wish I had them in Los Angeles traffic.

[ths61]

If people think you are a cop and pull over, then I would think they would help with lane splitting. Now to get cagers to use their rear view mirrors to see them.

[willtill]

I hate modulating headlights. But sometimes I wish I had them in Los Angeles traffic.

If you are coming to the Rally in Colorado next year, you can see how mine work on the low beams exclusively. Someone may have them on their high beams so you can compare.

And don't be a hater... :icon_lol: These things will save your bacon. :039:

[crossbowme]

I have always wondered how effective these lights are for night driving. I can't imagine a 5 hour ride at night when the lights constantly vary in intensity.

[gregj]

One of the great things about this country is the right to choose. If you dont like them, dont run them. Period.

However, I ran them for several years on my 07 ST1300A, and could absolutely tell the difference on the number of cagers that pulled out in front of me before I had them, and after I installed them.

If they aggravate some cager, that is a good thing, because it means I have been seen and noticed, which is their purpose. Right?

People have a lousy sense of "rate of closure", which is one reason why so many cagers pull out in front of bikes. They take a glance our way, but dont look long enough for the brain to take multiple "pictures" in order to calculate the rate of closure (how fast the bike is approaching the cager). With the modulators, it jogs the cager into "what is that?" which means a longer look, which means more "pictures" taken, which means the cager's brain can better calculate the biker's rate of closure, which means we have been noticed and not pulled out in front of. Job accomplished.

This is MHO, and is worth exactly what you paid for it. :cheers:

[DMAGOLDRDR]

I have always wondered how effective these lights are for night driving. I can't imagine a 5 hour ride at night when the lights constantly vary in intensity.

They don't pulse at night. In fact the pulsing light is the High Beam and there is a light sensor to shut off the pulse at night. If you flip to Low Beam it will be normal Head Light even during the day.

[willtill]

One of the great things about this country is the right to choose. If you dont like them, dont run them. Period.

However, I ran them for several years on my 07 ST1300A, and could absolutely tell the difference on the number of cagers that pulled out in front of me before I had them, and after I installed them.

If they aggravate some cager, that is a good thing, because it means I have been seen and noticed, which is their purpose. Right?

People have a lousy sense of "rate of closure", which is one reason why so many cagers pull out in front of bikes. They take a glance our way, but dont look long enough for the brain to take multiple "pictures" in order to calculate the rate of closure (how fast the bike is approaching the cager). With the modulators, it jogs the cager into "what is that?" which means a longer look, which means more "pictures" taken, which means the cager's brain can better calculate the biker's rate of closure, which means we have been noticed and not pulled out in front of. Job accomplished.

This is MHO, and is worth exactly what you paid for it. :cheers:


Perfect post. Concur. Totally. :yes:

[crossbowme]

They don't pulse at night. In fact the pulsing light is the High Beam and there is a light sensor to shut off the pulse at night. If you flip to Low Beam it will be normal Head Light even during the day.

Thanks

[crossbowme]

One of the great things about this country is the right to choose. If you dont like them, dont run them. Period.

However, I ran them for several years on my 07 ST1300A, and could absolutely tell the difference on the number of cagers that pulled out in front of me before I had them, and after I installed them.

If they aggravate some cager, that is a good thing, because it means I have been seen and noticed, which is their purpose. Right?

People have a lousy sense of "rate of closure", which is one reason why so many cagers pull out in front of bikes. They take a glance our way, but dont look long enough for the brain to take multiple "pictures" in order to calculate the rate of closure (how fast the bike is approaching the cager). With the modulators, it jogs the cager into "what is that?" which means a longer look, which means more "pictures" taken, which means the cager's brain can better calculate the biker's rate of closure, which means we have been noticed and not pulled out in front of. Job accomplished.

This is MHO, and is worth exactly what you paid for it. :cheers:

Here is a good example of a poor rate of closure estimate. http://www.pressherald.com/2017/12/05/video-shows-car-slamming-traffic-gate-casco-bay-bridge/
It happened yesterday. As a pilot, I lived (or not) by accurate rate of closure. However, I often have to "hold on for my life" when riding with my family or friends. Years ago I believed that it was inattention that caused these problems since people turn their head talk to you, play with phones, etc. Now I realize that there are a seriously high percentage of people in the US that just have a busted rate of closure meter.:yikes:

[druggr]

I take full responsibility while riding. I use my alertness and riding skills to avoid miss-haps. I assume I am totally invisible ... that know one can see me ... it is my sole responsibility to avoid "them."

[dadeo]

I won't put a modulator on my bike. The good lord has a date for me to leave this earth which I do not know when it is or how it is going happen. Could be a motorcycle accident, car accident, heart attack, cancer, or just plain old age and I'm good with it.

IMO He also gave us the ability to invent (and good sense to wear) a helmet and protective gear, thereby maybe giving us the opportunity to put that day off a bit!


All this reminded me of Marvin the Martian's "Illudium Q-36 explosive space modulator". I want one of those!

;-)

[K/W Motoman]

I contacted Kisan about using low beams for modulating and they said no problem.
I asked about using a switch on the light sensor cable to be able to run the lows without modulating and that was no problem as well.

Here is his answer:

Mark,

Switch needs to in-line with just one of the wires.

Slit open the black jacket of the Sensor cable
Use the Black wire inside to hook-up the toggle switch
Switch ON to allow modulation - (closed position)
Switch OFF to stop modulation - (open position)

Good luck.

Andy

This what I will be doing. Now looking for a waterproof toggle switch.

[woody]

It is illegal to fit them in Australia because other motorists mistake them for emergency vehicles.

[ShanghaiDan]

I hate modulating headlights. But sometimes I wish I had them in Los Angeles traffic.

I love mine! I only use them when it's time to start lane splitting. I've found that, for the most part, SoCal drivers are fairly aware of motorcycles (relative to other States I've ridden in). But flicking them on when it's time to lane split on a stalled freeway or highway, it's amazing how well it works. It also might be the beige riding jacket, white helmet, and Honda motorcycle (akin to the ST1300s favored by the LA Sheriff), combined with a flashing light, that gets attention... ;)

[ShanghaiDan]

It is illegal to fit them in Australia because other motorists mistake them for emergency vehicles.

Crazy Aussies! I bet you even drive on the wrong side of the road!

:icon_mrgreen::icon_mrgreen::icon_mrgreen:

[woody]

Sure do.
:clap2::clap2::clap2:

[thumper 549]

It is illegal to fit them in Australia because other motorists mistake them for emergency vehicles.

I am my own emergency vehicle. LOL
I have LED driving lights mounted to the top of crash bars on the road king.
At the press of a button, they go full wigg wagg .
Intersections and LEFT turns-, - if not careful they will kill ya.
The Wig Wagg lights are just enough to bring most them out of their Cheeze burger trance to almost notice ya!.
Even so, I count on every one of them doing the wrong thing.

[Circle-5]

I love mine! I only use them when it's time to start lane splitting. I've found that, for the most part, SoCal drivers are fairly aware of motorcycles (relative to other States I've ridden in). But flicking them on when it's time to lane split on a stalled freeway or highway, it's amazing how well it works. It also might be the beige riding jacket, white helmet, and Honda motorcycle (akin to the ST1300s favored by the LA Sheriff), combined with a flashing light, that gets attention... ;)

So you're saying that headlight modulation can be switched on and off as needed? If yes, can the switch be located anywhere? (there is no lack of places to mount switches on the F6B). And finally, will a modulator work with LED headlights, or does it just become a big, giant on-off flasher from hell?

Following the earlier suggestion by Willtill, I would prefer to have the low beams modulate instead of the high beams – makes more sense to me.

[crossbowme]

I am my own emergency vehicle. LOL
I have LED driving lights mounted to the top of crash bars on the road king.
At the press of a button, they go full wigg wagg .
Intersections and LEFT turns-, - if not careful they will kill ya.
The Wig Wagg lights are just enough to bring most them out of their Cheeze burger trance to almost notice ya!.
Even so, I count on every one of them doing the wrong thing.

X2

[Travelor]

So you're saying that headlight modulation can be switched on and off as needed? If yes, can the switch be located anywhere? (there is no lack of places to mount switches on the F6B). And finally, will a modulator work with LED headlights, or does it just become a big, giant on-off flasher from hell?

Following the earlier suggestion by Willtill, I would prefer to have the low beams modulate instead of the high beams – makes more sense to me.

I installed mine on the low beams (high beams just too much) with a cutoff switch in the sensor circuit so that I can turn them off during the day if desired. Otherwise the sensor controls them, and per the regulations stops the modulation when the sun goes down. If anyone wants to see pictures of where I mounted the sensor and cutoff switch, just PM me with an email address and I will send pictures of the sensor position and switch (DPST to switch both the sensor wires) I used.

[ShanghaiDan]

So you're saying that headlight modulation can be switched on and off as needed? If yes, can the switch be located anywhere? (there is no lack of places to mount switches on the F6B). And finally, will a modulator work with LED headlights, or does it just become a big, giant on-off flasher from hell?

Following the earlier suggestion by Willtill, I would prefer to have the low beams modulate instead of the high beams – makes more sense to me.

Correct. I have it installed on my high beams. If I turn my high beams on, and it's during the day (modulators can only be used during daylight), then they flash. Turn the high beams off - no modulators. it will work on anything you have - I have LED headlights and they work great.

[Pumper]

I too will never have them. I ride as if I am invisible to others and take full responsibility if someone hits me. I too find them annoying.

Amen, I have ridden that way for over 50 years, no problems...Think that I am invisible and do all I can to make myself seen, but not with wig wag lights...

[grendl]

I recall my first experience with the modulators on the road. At the time I drove a Trans Am and the need for speed was constant. One afternoon I am cruising above the speed limit and saw a motorcycle catching up to me with modulators on.Uh-oh,so I slow down and the guy passes me. I was pissed because he interrupted my fun. I saw this guy occasionally and my first thought was always the cops.Found out later about modulating high beams on a motorcycle but the one thing I knew personally is that it always got my attention.Later I had a buddy that had them.He always rode tailgunner but there was never a time I couldn't see him.
My impression? yeah they work.I dont use them but they DO get noticed at a distance.
Oh when I bought my F6B I wanted to pay for it,but needed a car. I had given my SUV to one of my daughters but I had to have this bike with only so much money. So I bought and paid for the bike and bought a police car from an auction.I became one of those 'wankers' that drove those cars and POed a few people when I pulled in behind them.Actually loved that car. It handled very well,had a dual ratio transmission and was fast as hell but I eventually sold it.