Anti Dive Shim [Archive] - Honda F6B Forums - The website for F6B & Gold Wing 2018+ Riders

ths61

08-20-2015, 03:40 PM

As the name implies, the ADV's(Anti-Dive Valve) intent is to prevent the front end from diving under hard braking.

From how I understand the issue, the ADV (in good working order) should NOT do anything when the brakes are NOT applied, but it is not always in good working order. If it sticks, it locks the front fork when brakes are NOT applied.

Once the forks are locked (under braking or sticky ADV), the front shock can not work to absorb bumps. Loosing shock absorption is not desirable, thus a questionable design approach in the first place by Mother Honda. By disabling the ADV with a shim, the forks do not get locked at the possible trade off of front end dive under hard braking if the fork springs are too lite for the specific load.

Someone correct me if I am wrong or missed something.

HTH

hgslayr

08-20-2015, 03:55 PM

Limoles

08-20-2015, 04:05 PM

What is the down side of installing the anti dive shim? It seems everyone has good things to say about the shim.

Why would Honda spend money to install the anti dive system if the bike is better without it?

Just want to understand are the riders correct or is Honda correct?

Richie

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/1800antidive.htm

bob109

08-20-2015, 04:24 PM

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/1800antidive.htm

Limoles! Thanks for sharing! I like the idea of the two rubber O-rings. I have a box of Nitril O-Rings from Harbor Freight and will be checking to see if I have the right sizes.

Bob

willtill

08-20-2015, 04:33 PM

I've opted for the spacer that is sold for this. Fork dive is normal; though I have yet to experience it with a GL/F6B. I am going to find out soon enough; once the spacer comes in.

If I don't like the fork dive; then I will do the rubber O-ring modification. Fork dive during braking is something that is not abnormal to me; though if it is greatly exaggerated... I will have to revisit.

Limoles

08-20-2015, 06:19 PM

Limoles! Thanks for sharing! I like the idea of the two rubber O-rings. I have a box of Nitril O-Rings from Harbor Freight and will be checking to see if I have the right sizes.

Bob

Bob ,

I also would love to upgrade my front suspension , but as a right now have no time to exercise any improvements , so when you complete your job , please keep us updated and share developed experience .

hgslayr

08-20-2015, 07:06 PM

$25 and 10 minutes is all you need....

bob109

08-20-2015, 07:30 PM

Bob ,

I also would love to upgrade my front suspension , but as a right now have no time to exercise any improvements , so when you complete your job , please keep us updated and share developed experience .

Will do! I already have a selection of SAE O-rings but may get the Metric O-rings. Harbor Freight has both on sale for $7.99 regularly $14.99

Here's some pics of the Kits.

1585015851

Limoles

08-21-2015, 11:04 AM

$25 and 10 minutes is all you need....

You probably right , but now , if is not even time for riding , $25.00 wouldn't help anyway .
Since I'm not crazy for Chinese imitations , I'd rather learn , what's the size of those O-rings and install properly measured Aflas ( FEPM ) AF69/90 grade , or chlorosulphonyl polyethylene ( CSM ) seals , ensuring long mechanical ( compression ) duties , with resistance for chemical , or temp. changes . Sometimes small things play huge roles .
ps.
When Bob will find correct size , in full trust of his accuracy , I'll order more rings and try to distribute to those who might be interested . I already made contact with DuPont rep. and discussed the purchase .

GaTeach

08-21-2015, 05:19 PM

I had a dude in the dealership telling me about drilling a hole in a nickel and...

I think this is what he was talking about. I had no idea at the time.

Richie

08-21-2015, 10:29 PM

Thanks to all for your help..............Richie

willtill

08-24-2015, 03:40 PM

Just received my spacer... I'm going to install it and take the bike out; see if it has a favorable effect.

willtill

08-25-2015, 12:58 PM

I just got back in from a ride (had to get a 1/2 stubby extension for my torque wrench). I have to say that I think the front end does not feel so harsh anymore. I am a bit amazed.

I'm glad I installed that shim kit. :yes: I don't like the idea of my shock "locking up" for any reason. They're supposed to move and absorb shock.

hgslayr

08-26-2015, 04:31 PM

Will...+2
Takes the hammer sound away and seems quieter all the way around...

cueman

08-27-2015, 09:08 PM

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/1800antidive.htm

OK my friends, I went to the above site and the 2 o-ring fix for the ADV are no way the size of a nickel. I have the Harbor Freight metric o-ring assortment kit and it doesn't have the exact size that the above site recommends. Site calls for 5mm bore x 8.5mm od, I have 4.8mm x 8.6mm. Will this work for the top? The site recommends 6mm x 10mm on the bottom o-ring, I have 5.8mm x 9.6mm. Will this work on the bottom? Any advise on this? Thanks, cueman :shrug:

bob109

08-27-2015, 10:22 PM

OK my friends, I went to the above site and the 2 o-ring fix for the ADV are no way the size of a nickel. I have the Harbor Freight metric o-ring assortment kit and it doesn't have the exact size that the above site recommends. Site calls for 5mm bore x 8.5mm od, I have 4.8mm x 8.6mm. Will this work for the top? The site recommends 6mm x 10mm on the bottom o-ring, I have 5.8mm x 9.6mm. Will this work on the bottom? Any advise on this? Thanks, cueman :shrug:

I have the SAE Nitril O-Rings from Harbor Freight and could only use two rings 1/32" thick. Attaching a pic for comparison of the 4 options for the spacer. I opted to make a spacer from aluminum sheet. It is currently installed with two 5mmx20mm Allen Head Bolts. Using the Nickel, Aluminum Crush Washer or the Nitril O-Rings will leave a gap between the AD Body upper and lower halves. Didn't want any debris getting into the gapped surfaces. The jury is still out on the effects of the spacer. I have less than 200 miles on the bike since installing it and notice that the forks more easily compress when coming to a stop. Not sure I'll keep the spacer in place as I actually prefer the stock handling especially in sharp corners where I tend to throttle/rear brake at the same time.

3334333516036

Maddoggie501

08-13-2016, 05:38 PM

Dont really notice much dive during hard braking after installing my shim..I dont ever remember having AD on my other bikes so dont see it as a big safety issue since Ive never been bucked off a bike yet...lol

I couldn't agree more. I disabled mine on my 2016 F6B. I tested front end dive under high speed braking and cannot notice any more dive than with the ADV working. Took a 1000 mile trip and must say I cannot find anything to complain about. For the life of me I cannot understand why Honda wasted time re-inventing front fork operation.

TailGunner

08-13-2016, 06:16 PM

Honda did it so the suspension could be set up with softer springs but still give support when you brake hard. It doesn't lock it up it firms it up. I tried the shim and changed back to stock. For my spirited riding I didn't like the soft feel on the front suspension.

Steve 0080

08-13-2016, 06:35 PM

TailGunner

08-13-2016, 06:56 PM

Add Progressive Springs and disconnect the anti-dive !!!!! I did!!! Much,Much better!
Yea did all that stuff on my VTX 1800 so when I bought this one I vowed I wouldn't spend a ton of money unless it was needed for safety or comfort. Buy who knows springs are border line safety aren't they? :)

Steve 0080

08-13-2016, 07:11 PM

TailGunner

08-13-2016, 07:38 PM

Before the springs and the anti-dive when I came onto my drive the bike tried to throw me off...now just a smooth transition. Springs were $115 and installed for $85. But I had already had the forks serviced so the tech just pulled the caps and dropped in the new springs !!!
I do all the work on my bikes unless it's under warranty, I just don'the want to start changing parts unless it is really needed.My X is/was my money pit so I'm done with making changes that are not really needed.

stillridin

08-14-2016, 09:23 PM

Anti-dive of this sort has been a pet project of Honda boffins since at least 1984 when they put it on the VF500F. I never disabled it on my VF500, but assume it stopped working at some point when it was never serviced in 70,000km. Yup, motorcycle front ends dive when you brake hard. Honda should keep their car engineers away from the motorcycle division. :icon_lol:

seadog

08-14-2016, 10:39 PM

My 2015 deluxe handles great, brakes nicely for the deer field testing the brakes and doesn't do anything stupid enough to make me change it. Hey! If it ain't broke don't fix it. JMHO

willtill

08-15-2016, 06:31 AM

My 2015 deluxe handles great, brakes nicely for the deer field testing the brakes and doesn't do anything stupid enough to make me change it. Hey! If it ain't broke don't fix it. JMHO

Like the stock seat? :stirthepot:

DMAGOLDRDR

08-15-2016, 06:42 AM

willtill

08-15-2016, 07:20 AM

For info from TRAXXION on the Anti-dive zip to the 13.50 mark and see what their rep says about anti-dive.
Or watch the entire 3 part video for suspension info.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCIO7uGziS8

Most excellent. He explains it well. I am going to watch both part one and part 2 video's in their entirety later on.

The shim is SO EASY to install, inexpensive and easy to revert back if you still think it doesn't improve the F6B's front suspension.

The old adage that he quoted in the beginning of part 1 video; "The best that you have ridden is the best that you know" ...is so true. So true. :icon_wink:

seadog

08-15-2016, 08:00 AM

Like the stock seat? :stirthepot:

The stock seat was broke, had I still been 22 years old the stock seat would still be there but these old bones wouldn't let me keep the OEM seat. I see guys spending money hand over fist on things that are just fine the way they are. If you have cubic dollars flowing out your pockets that's fine buy what you want but some of us old retired people don't have that luxury and if a system is working fine and you don't have a problem with it why spend the money. It like the lights, I did add the driving lights but that wasn't because the main lights were insufficient. It was more a safety thing for daytime riding than anything else. Then there is the heli bars and the fork brace, I don't see the need for either of those as my bike handles fine, nothing shaking or wearing the front tire funny so I just can't justify spending that kind of money when there is no need. JMHO

Travelor

08-15-2016, 08:23 AM

The stock seat was broke, had I still been 22 years old the stock seat would still be there but these old bones wouldn't let me keep the OEM seat. I see guys spending money hand over fist on things that are just fine the way they are. If you have cubic dollars flowing out your pockets that's fine buy what you want but some of us old retired people don't have that luxury and if a system is working fine and you don't have a problem with it why spend the money. It like the lights, I did add the driving lights but that wasn't because the main lights were insufficient. It was more a safety thing for daytime riding than anything else. Then there is the heli bars and the fork brace, I don't see the need for either of those as my bike handles fine, nothing shaking or wearing the front tire funny so I just can't justify spending that kind of money when there is no need. JMHO

I tend to agree with you on the "ain't broke, don't fix" approach. However, in this case, I did disable the anti-dive and like the smoother fork action when braking on bumps (at very little cost). The main reason I did it is that when only the one fork leg is being restricted by the anti-dive there is going to be a twisting effect on the axle as a result of it. I think it is a bad design that contributes to increased side loads on the fork tube bushings and seals. Maybe I'm wrong, and that's okay, but that's my opinion. Honda has a very weak fork design to begin with on the "wing", I have seen many wings with under 30k miles with fork seals leaking like crazy. Trying to avoid that situation on my ride.

speeddrive1

08-15-2016, 09:37 AM

Does anyone know what the thickness is of the anti dive shim?

bob109

08-15-2016, 09:55 AM

Does anyone know what the thickness is of the anti dive shim?

The thickness of a Nickel:039:

speeddrive1

08-15-2016, 11:17 AM

Cool. I will try to scrounge up a nickel and put the caliper on it.

Retired Army

08-15-2016, 12:45 PM

Maddoggie501

08-15-2016, 01:30 PM

Most excellent. He explains it well. I am going to watch both part one and part 2 video's in their entirety later on.

The shim is SO EASY to install, inexpensive and easy to revert back if you still think it doesn't improve the F6B's front suspension.

The old adage that he quoted in the beginning of part 1 video; "The best that you have ridden is the best that you know" ...is so true. So true. :icon_wink:

I totally agree with everything he said about the Anti Dive. My feelings exactly. A cheap fix I tried to see what happens before I spend money on new springs. As for now, I like it and won't buy the springs yet!

Maddoggie501

08-15-2016, 01:32 PM

I tend to agree with you on the "ain't broke, don't fix" approach. However, in this case, I did disable the anti-dive and like the smoother fork action when braking on bumps (at very little cost). The main reason I did it is that when only the one fork leg is being restricted by the anti-dive there is going to be a twisting effect on the axle as a result of it. I think it is a bad design that contributes to increased side loads on the fork tube bushings and seals. Maybe I'm wrong, and that's okay, but that's my opinion. Honda has a very weak fork design to begin with on the "wing", I have seen many wings with under 30k miles with fork seals leaking like crazy. Trying to avoid that situation on my ride.

I totally agree! Like the guy in the video says, the ADV is a system to compensate for a poor spring design. I use a braking method I learned years ago in a road racing school. Before going into a high speed turn I use the front brake to slow down and as you start to lean in you use less pressure on the front brake. When you hit the apex you should be off the brakes and on the gas. In order for this type of braking to work, you need to load the front end to increase turn in and traction, just like the video explains. The ADV just prevented this operation and any bumps in the turn would rock my hands and upset the front end. Its just my humble opinion.

lgjhn

08-15-2016, 08:37 PM

On my Goldwing Roadsmith trike (a totally different animal for sure) that has a pretty good front rake and has Progressive springs installed, I drilled a hole in a nickel and sandwiched it in there to disable it. This gave the trike a much better front end as it allows full range on the shocks. However, I don't have Progressives in the F6B yet, so I'm leaving it bone stock for now. I will probably drop in a set of Progressives when it comes time to service the fork oil etc. At that point, I'll drill out another nickel and disable it as well.

stillridin

08-16-2016, 09:03 AM

I totally agree! Like the guy in the video says, the ADV is a system to compensate for a poor spring design. I use a braking method I learned years ago in a road racing school. Before going into a high speed turn I use the front brake to slow down and as you start to lean in you use less pressure on the front brake. When you hit the apex you should be off the brakes and on the gas. In order for this type of braking to work, you need to load the front end to increase turn in and traction, just like the video explains. The ADV just prevented this operation and any bumps in the turn would rock my hands and upset the front end. Its just my humble opinion.

YES, YES, YES!!! Smooth control actions are the key to motorcycle riding. Too many riders simply decide or watch top racers, and make the mistake of thinking just grabbing fistfuls of gas and brake, and suddenly heaving their weight around is how to ride. Top racers and the best street riders are very smooth in the application of control actions, racers just do it so quickly it seems sudden. Watch the super-slow-motion shots of MotoGP riders and the truth is shown. Marquez (albeit with carbon/carbon brakes) goes from over 300kph to as low as 60kph using one finger on the brake lever.

Why is it engineers seem to try to fix "problems" that aren't really problems at all? As the video explains, SOME dive under braking is a good thing. There is no free lunch, which is what hydraulic damper throttling anti-dive is all about as a suspension strategy. There is probably anti-dive on Marquez' RC213V's forks, but having a team of engineers tweaking it in pit lane is a far cry from the crude tech in the F6B left fork.

Now to start saving for the full Traxxion treatment front and rear...

Redlinez

10-10-2016, 03:33 PM

Glad I found this thread. Time to order that anti dive shim!

willtill

10-10-2016, 03:42 PM

Glad I found this thread. Time to order that anti dive shim!

http://wingstuff.com/products/32921-anti-dive-fork-valve-shim-w-screws?from_search=1

stroguy

10-10-2016, 10:06 PM

I sent away for the de-feet-er from Wingstuff. Like the video. I will see how this snake oil changes my brake feel on some of the crappiest roads around Bush airport in Houston. Great thread.

Redlinez

10-11-2016, 09:06 AM

Snake oil! At least it's a solid! I'm in the car biz, I appreciate that comment! Motomfg makes one as well.

stroguy

10-11-2016, 09:31 AM

Pure rhetoric, pure rhetoric. Lol, I love the thread but I will probably be the most unlikely technical source to say yea or nay to deactivating the ADV being better or worse. But we have some really crappy roads around the airport and I know how my suspension works on them. This will be a fun $20 test.

Pringle

10-11-2016, 09:58 AM

Well I took the plunge after reading this thread and Tested the shim a couple different ways. I know everyone has different tastes in suspension set ups, so what one loves another despises, but here are my thoughts. I am 5'8 190 for reference. With Stock springs and shim, I did not like the additional dive during hard braking, but liked the smoother ride especially during initial hard braking entering curves.....less harsh not feeling every bump. I then Added new progressive springs and rode with and without the shim. Really like the feel with the new springs and the shim.....very little dive and more planted in curves when really "hustling" the bike. New springs gave a more firm ride which I prefer.