Bad Paint....New Thread !

[MichaelG]

Admittedly, I am a lot HOT under the collar right now, because I just got off the phone with that (&*%&^%$%^) Randy from Honda Customer Service.

After our last phone conversation, I had asked him to refer me to his supervisor, as it does NO good to speak to Randy at all. Why he decided to waste my time calling me again, is one of the points of contention here.

His telling points...Honda Customer Service is NOT going to contact the factory line, and even bother mentioning to the build line that there is a problem with the paint, because...Honda Customer Service has no proof that the problem is on the part of Honda...rather than the customers just being idiots and not knowing how to wash and wax their motorcycles.

His second point...Honda Customer Service is NOT going to waste one second of their precious time reading this forum, to read all the posts that riders have submitted about the bad paint on their bikes, because...they give no value or credence to these posts, because they are just gossip. If a customer really does have a problem with bad paint on their bikes, then they need to call Honda Customer Service (866) 784-1870, and make a complaint, but...more importantly, the bike owner needs to take their bikes to a Honda dealer, start a warranty complaint, and have pictures taken of the bad paint.

According to this (^&^$^&) Randy, he says that less than a handful of riders have filed complaints about bad paint on their bikes, and that Honda Customer Service has NOT received any pictures of this (so-called) bad paint issue from any dealerships.


I AM ASKING EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU TO PLEASE CALL HONDA CUSTOMER SERVICE ( 866) 784-1870, AND MAKE A SPECIFIC COMPLAINT ABOUT THE BAD PAINT ON YOUR BIKE, AND...THEN TO TAKE YOUR BIKE TO WHICHEVER HONDA DEALER YOU WANT TO, HAVE THEM WRITE UP A WARRANTY SERVICE COMPLAINT ON THE BAD PAINT, AND TAKE PICTURES OF THE BAD PAINT.

Several of us have asked this same thing before...and at this point not enough people have been following through on this. If we allow Honda to become complacent, or...even worse...allow them to formulate an opinion and final decision that there is NOT a problem with the paint on these bikes, then it will be VERY difficult to get Honda to reverse their decision.

I am DONE talking with (&*&%& Randy). In the future, I will only speak with someone up the ladder. As I told him, if I need to bring my bike down to Honda's offices, in person, and show his supervisors what bad paint looks like...I can and will do that.

As I have said in the past, I am NOT looking for answers and a resolution to this issue overnight. The bikes are still under warranty. But with a FEW complaints in...Honda is ready to dismiss this issue with the notion that WE simply do not know how to care for the paint on our bikes.

PLEASE...do not allow them to get away with that.:banghead:

[MNF6B]

I was at my Honda dealer today getting the 4 k service done. My Honda dealer said that Randy called them and ask for my complaint and pics again. Randy talked to me last week and gave me the same song and dance that he gave Miles. My dealer said he would resend and could not believe that Randy said they never received my complaint and pics. I left for the day and returned at 5 to pick up my bike. My dealer met me and introduce me to the local Honda rep. The Honda rep looked at my bike and gave the same song and dance that Randy gave. He said that the first step that I should take is to let my dealer rub some 3M shit on my bike to see if this resolves the issue. I calmly explained to him that folks on this forum have been there and done that. Result is no fix just a shine until you touch it again. He would not move from this point. I told him that I could run my finger on my bike and scratch it. I also told him that the new F6B on the floor does not seem to have this issue....i tried it. My parts rep pulled me aside and said that they have had a few honda models from Honda with this issue. I told the rep that I would go with his step by step prog as long as the issue gets resolved. He said that Honda was not just going to replace the plastic as a first step. Next week is step one.....again! :banghead:

[unsub]

I also told him that the new F6B on the floor does not seem to have this issue....i tried it.

I completely understand how sensitive this issue is to those that are experiencing the problem.

Although this is only my second day I tried to replicate the paint-on-cloth issue on my bike and could not. At least not with the wash and wax products I used. After washing with an automotive soap I used a spray on cleaner/wax. Does anyone know if the paint issue might be related to specific VIN runs thus allowing some with the issue and others without?

Sorry if this seems like this question has an obvious answer but I have no clue how the paint process works. I ask because my VIN is below 50 and comparing the VIN registry here with consumer complaints here the vast majority have much higher VINs

Maybe paint and assembly are not tied together and the shelter pieces are painted at a different time and or place, so there goes the VIN theory.

[Steve 0080]

Welllll my vin # is 80 and the paint is trash...I have met with my Honda Rep and he DID take pics...and He DID rub the 3M shit on my bike as well...A warranty claim was filled out as well.... I will be going by the Honda Shop in the AM and speak to the Service Manager....

[Bike44]

Miles, your frustration is real and suggestion of starting a complaint process a good one. For support I'd contact a professional painter and/or paint supplier familiar with whatever process Honda currently is using. An example from another thread: http://www.uspaint.com/paints/Honda-Gold-Wing-F6B.asp There may be others.

I'd want to know if the soft paint issue is a function of Honda's painting process and materials that mar easily despite being correctly applied. I'm not a painter but my F6B has softer paint that's subject to scratching and swirls more than any vehicle I've previously owned, with the possible exception of my former 2012 red Goldwing Level III. The current finish may be all Honda is capable of, or willing to produce.

I'd never use an abrasive wax or polish on the F6B, and only a scratch and swirl reducer if required.

Edit. As many here have already discovered, the soft paint issue has been discussed on other Forums for 2012/13 Goldwings. I agree that there's no clear surface coating typical of modern shiny paint we've grown to expect from quality manufacturers. I installed a fender extender tonight, and in cleaning the fender with isopropyl alcohol per Honda's recommendation I easily pulled a very little red paint from the fender. The finish was unmarred by the alcohol and no protective clear coating over the paint.

[SpeedyWho]

I've stayed out of the paint talk for a while now, it just gets my blood pressure up. Here's a quick bit of info I have for you guys.

As seen in the other thread where I posted the rags turning Red while I waxed my bike. I mailed all that's stuff to Honda. They contacted me and asked me to bring my bike to a dealer and they where going to replace my panels with new ones and use mine to test the paint issue on a bike with some miles( about 10k at that time) and thats what they did. I have new panels and Honda has my originals. That's all I know as of today

By the way the new panels are the same as the old ones. I was told they havnt changed anything yet and these will be the same paint quality as first set. But they wanted mine

That's my story

[jkelley]

I too have talked to customer ( lack of ) service, Been to the dealer, jumped through all of the normal hoops and even sent a letter to the big dog in Cali whose name and address were in another thread.

I don't in any way claim to be an expert in paint but have been involved in manufacturing processes all my life and some experience in testing.
Honda knew long before they released any of these machines what the quality levels were. To think a major corporation did not perform mill thickness, abrasion, adhesion, aging, curing, and gloss testing is absurd. They allowed a product into market assuming the buyers would accept this quality level, and hope to continue the same production without the cost of change well into the future. Hopefully those of us that are making noise will be heard and something done, but I would not hold your breath. They know using the rock solid platform affords them some leniency
in other areas to control costs. However, in my opinion a 20K bike should be high end and personally I want mine to look great most of the time with little effort in regards to polishing and buffing. I also agree with Miles and am not a happy camper. If I choose to keep this bike it will be repainted with a quality finish. If I decide otherwise, I will go another direction and never look back all the while knowing my personal decision is hardly of any concern to Honda.

[Westernbiker]

I guess my question is.......why do some have an issue with paint and some do not. I, fortunatly, do not have a paint issue. If their (Honda) paint process has not be changed, then all of us should have the issue. Maybe they (Honda) noticed the issue on the first run lot of plastic and then fixed it? Are these plastic panels painted and more than one facility? Could be one facility has the wrong process? I waxed my bike last week for the foirst time and NO paint on cloth. I am concerned about no clear coat and I am going to look into clear coat of the panels I have, if that can even be done. I have a very good friend who is a custom painter and he will know if it can be done. Good luck to all of you who do have a paint problem, I do hope you get it fixed.

[edgeman55]

JKelly I agree with all you stated.And Miles I have filed a complaint with Honda at all levels.Been to the dealer four times,talked to the district rep,talked to Honda on the phone and all I get is the same song and dance as others here have.My time is more important then to let this issue stress me out.I really never thought Honda was going to do anything and my love for this bike overrides my hate for the paint.Is it right to get crap paint on a 20 grand bike-Hell no!But I will save my pennies and get a really nice paint job in the future.

[Bike44]

I guess my question is.......why do some have an issue with paint and some do not. I, fortunatly, do not have a paint issue. If their (Honda) paint process has not be changed, then all of us should have the issue. Maybe they (Honda) noticed the issue on the first run lot of plastic and then fixed it? Are these plastic panels painted and more than one facility? Could be one facility has the wrong process? I waxed my bike last week for the foirst time and NO paint on cloth. I am concerned about no clear coat and I am going to look into clear coat of the panels I have, if that can even be done. I have a very good friend who is a custom painter and he will know if it can be done. Good luck to all of you who do have a paint problem, I do hope you get it fixed.

My red F6B has paint issues. It's soft and subject to marring if careless, but so were my 2006 black ST1300 and red 2012 Goldwing. If I work at it I can get some minor red transfer, but so far but it either took using a swirl remover and one of Mother's foam buffing balls, or a quick rub with isopropyl alcohol. The major concern was the scratching from the protective covering over the saddlebags when shipped.

My VIN ends in 2089. Is that close to yours? It would seem that if Honda changed anything in the process it would be linked by VIN.

The concern for the future will be any potential loss of value due to poor paint. Buyers and dealers will discount any F6B or Goldwing if there's a known issue with the paint on some.

[ghostrider]

I guess my question is.......why do some have an issue with paint and some do not. I, fortunatly, do not have a paint issue. If their (Honda) paint process has not be changed, then all of us should have the issue. Maybe they (Honda) noticed the issue on the first run lot of plastic and then fixed it? Are these plastic panels painted and more than one facility? Could be one facility has the wrong process? I waxed my bike last week for the foirst time and NO paint on cloth. I am concerned about no clear coat and I am going to look into clear coat of the panels I have, if that can even be done. I have a very good friend who is a custom painter and he will know if it can be done. Good luck to all of you who do have a paint problem, I do hope you get it fixed.

When I first got my bike I thought my paint was fine too. But I did notice the "feel" of the paint was not right. It didn't feel smooth to the touch like a quality paint would. I also noticed there are inconsistencies in the different areas of the paint. If my whole bike was painted like the front fender was I wouldn't have an issue but the rear in is the worst part of my bike. It's always scratched easy but then I noticed red showing up on my wax pad(that's never a good sign). I also had a spot of grease or something on it and when I wiped it off it showed a raised area. All of these signs tell me that this is an inferior paint job. The paint should feel glass smooth after waxing it and it just doesn't in most areas.

I've been down to the dealership and they have taken pictures and sent them into Honda(I hope) and filled out the form. I guess we need to just keep making noise. It angers me to hear them say they haven't had very many complaints.

I'm sure you will start seeing the same issues after time. I'm sorry to say.

[jkelley]

I guess my question is.......why do some have an issue with paint and some do not. I, fortunatly, do not have a paint issue. If their (Honda) paint process has not be changed, then all of us should have the issue. Maybe they (Honda) noticed the issue on the first run lot of plastic and then fixed it? Are these plastic panels painted and more than one facility? Could be one facility has the wrong process? I waxed my bike last week for the foirst time and NO paint on cloth. I am concerned about no clear coat and I am going to look into clear coat of the panels I have, if that can even be done. I have a very good friend who is a custom painter and he will know if it can be done. Good luck to all of you who do have a paint problem, I do hope you get it fixed.

Good question. I have no idea if they are manufacturing in different locations. I too asked Wing Bling if they could just clear coat and they told me the original paint was so thin they would prefer not to. In the prep the chance is good they might go completely through the original paint and have to repaint anyway. I have no doubt you are correct in what you say about you not having the problem, but I have seen two locally that made the same statement and when I looked closely at their bikes they in fact had "A" problem. Hopefully yours and several others will remain problem free.
I have never had any paint on a polishing cloth either but my bike will swirl and scratch with a light touch of my finger. I know that black vehicles like mine can and will show everything under the sun, but this thing is really bad. I also have a black 2500 Dodge Ram CTD that has had much less care than this bike and it look fantastic when detailed with no swirl or scratch issues. Historically I have avoided black paint due to showing scratches but it sure looks good when it's right. This bike does have substandard paint in my opinion, and not acceptable to me for the price. Correctable? Yes, but why should we as owners have to pay to correct a poor job? Honda should make it right. The question is will they step up.
In 1989 I bought a brand new Ford F-150 and within 6 months the paint was coming off in sheets, Ford refused to fix it so I left it with them and have never owned another. Six months later they were repainting trucks all over the area. GM was doing the same, but they finally did step up. I doubt the loss of me as a customer had any effect but I am not a very patient person, and Frankly refuse to accept poor quality.

[Scotrod]

Not much I can add other than I hope the problems are corrected.
Kinda feel like there must be something to it as 'bad paint' was never mentioned on the forums of the prior Honda or Yami bikes I've owned.
The talk of bad paint also 'created additional value' (in my mind) regarding the decision to get a 'HR Signature Series' bike with 'aftermarket' paint. We'll see if it was worth it in the not so distant future.

[jkelley]

Not much I can add other than I hope the problems are corrected.
Kinda feel like there must be something to it as 'bad paint' was never mentioned on the forums of the prior Honda or Yami bikes I've owned.
The talk of bad paint also 'created additional value' (in my mind) regarding the decision to get a 'HR Signature Series' bike with 'aftermarket' paint. We'll see if it was worth it in the not so distant future.

Probably a wise choice on your part. I wish I had done the same!

[jkelley]

JKelly I agree with all you stated.And Miles I have filed a complaint with Honda at all levels.Been to the dealer four times,talked to the district rep,talked to Honda on the phone and all I get is the same song and dance as others here have.My time is more important then to let this issue stress me out.I really never thought Honda was going to do anything and my love for this bike overrides my hate for the paint.Is it right to get crap paint on a 20 grand bike-Hell no!But I will save my pennies and get a really nice paint job in the future.

Probably a good way to be, I let it get to me and stress about a lot of crap I really cant do much about but damn, this really pisses me off to no end every time I look or think about it. Kinda like being ripped off I guess but in the end you are correct.

[Alberta Beagle]

I have seen the bad paint on F6B's in the showroom at the dealership I purchased from.
I must be the lucky one as I have to say of all the black vehicles I have had, my last bike was black and my current car is black, my F6B is no worse than any other black vehicles I have owned.

The first thing I did when I got the bike home was give it a good polish with Meguiar's Ultimate Compound and then applied 3 coats of Meguiar's Ultimate Paste Wax. In between I detail and remove bugs with Meguiar's Quick Detailer Spray. I use the Quick Detail Spray after dusting with my California Car duster and apply and remove with a couple of borderless super thick micro fiber cloths. I have only had to wash my bike about 4 times so far. After every wash I will work on any minor marks with the Compound and then I always apply a complete new coat of wax after washing.
I always get compliments on the shine of the paint. I don't log the miles that some of you do but I do have 10,000 kilometeres on it as of today. My last bike had 6000 when I sold it and it's paint was far worse than the F6B.
It does take alot of work to maintain but I enjoy it as its like therapry for me on a rainy day to head to the garage and shine it up.

Thats just my experience to date with the F6B and its paint and it certainly appears I am in the minority of those who are satisfied.

Beagle

[FLjay]

sounds like we need a lawyer. class-action time

[gray rider]

I'm in the same lucky club with Alberta Beagle and have no issues with my black F6B, VIN 1072.
I currently own 6 black vehicles and the F6B is no better or worse than any of the others. Our bikes must have been painted on the day they remembered to add the drying accelerant to the paint.

[contek]

I was one of the guys that posted red cloth pix. I showed the bike to the dealer in May (3 weeks old) and he filled out an RO. He called me back at the end of June telling me that Honda was aware of the paint issues on the f6b. He said they were collecting data and wanted to know the brand of microfiber and wax (nu finish) that I used. I sent the info to him along with pix of the cloth. I haven't heard anything since, so I'm taking Miles' lead and calling Honda directly.
My VIN is 355.

[Steve 0080]

Went by the Honda shop today to check on my Warranty claim.... and was informed by the Service Manager that he was TOLD to close out my claim and it would be entertained by Honda themselves...WTF,,,,,,, Got busy the rest of this afternoon but will call Honda in the AM and see what is up ?????????????????????

[edgeman55]

Went by the Honda shop today to check on my Warranty claim.... and was informed by the Service Manager that he was TOLD to close out my claim and it would be entertained by Honda themselves...WTF,,,,,,, Got busy the rest of this afternoon but will call Honda in the AM and see what is up ?????????????????????

Steve this is the same run around my Local service manager has given me.He states nothing on his end can be done unless Honda tells him to do so.Honda tells me I do not know how to clean my bike right.I knew from the get go Honda would do nothing and all the bitchin here has proved me right.One has to accept the fact they will have to paint there bike to make it right and if you want Honda to do that it's lawyer time.Don't know if I want the stress of all that and will do my own paint job one of these winters when I get sick of polishing this paint.Good luck getting something done as after 4 trips to my dealer and many phone calls with no one giving a damn I am done.Lifes to short:icon_wink:

[Steve 0080]

Well...... I said 6 months ago it would take a class action law suit and sadly the day is approaching...keep your receipts.....

[Bike44]

Well...... I said 6 months ago it would take a class action law suit and sadly the day is approaching...keep your receipts.....

Have you contacted Honda today per your plans yesterday? Just curious. I called and left my info FWIW.

[Steve 0080]

Sorry..got side tracked by a sand blaster for the new run of backrests... there was a delay in between the machine shop and the powder coater so had to hire a sandblaster to blast the pieces before they could be coated...I will call first of the week...

[Bike44]

I stopped by my dealer today and showed the paint to the SM on duty. He said come by or call monday and he'd contact his Tech Rep about what to do next. So I will.

We both put our thumbs on clean paint, twisted them, and left swirls.

[Trike lady]

Bring it to the headquarters in Japan. The website page address below is for them.
http://www.world.honda.com/group/HondaMotor/index.html
Sometimes it may need to be addressed to the horse's face instead of his butt.
When I don't get satisfaction from the locals I rattle the big dogs cage.
I had an HD Ultra Classic that was a pain in the butt, the dealer jerked me around, I took the complaint to Milwaukee and the dealer had a good chewing from HQ and the trike was finally repaired. Got rid of the POS a year later and bought a GL1500.

[Wingman]

I am by no means saying that there isn’t a quality problem with the paint and/or paint process, but my paint appears to be behaving like any other black vehicle I have owned. To someone else it may be a problem, but to me it’s ops normal. I have cleaned it twice, like I normally do, good hose down, wash mitt and car soap, chamois wipe down, then micro fiber buff, and aside from a couple scratches, one being from the dealer, I really don’t see anything that bothers me to much. I ride all the time, in the rain and weather on crappy, dirty country roads and highways, not to mention the ballistics on the knees of my Aerostitch suit, so I expect a little wear and tear; so far no more than normal for me.

All that said, I really hope Mamma Honda steps up and does the right thing for the owners that do have a problem and I wish you the best of luck!

[jarhead22]

I was in my local dealership yesterday and spoke with one of their salesmen about the F6b that was on the floor there (Vin 811), I intentionally failed to mention the fact that I had bought the only F6b that they had sold so far (Vin 675), back in March. I mentioned that I had heard that folks were having issues with the paint on their brand new bikes and he proceeded to tell me about the crappy paint issues with their bike, and it has never left the showroom floor. He told me of course that they only use Honda products and terry cloth to clean the bikes and it has scratches all over it, They have had the bike on the floor for nearly 5 months and he says numerous customers have mentioned the scratches on the new F6b. I would venture to say that if the bikes are going to sit on the floor long enough for the paint issues to show,the dealers will be screaming to Ma Honda also.

[Bike44]

Went over to my dealer today repeating last Saturday's visit. The main SM looked it over, saw the swirls, asked what I'd done to clean and polish so far. I mentioned the saddlebag cover scratches that came from their, or Honda's handling, and asked them to contact their Tech Rep for further info. He did say that unless they discovered paint problems on pre-delivery warranty of the bag covers would be difficult. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't, but it wasn't the 5 mile drive home that cut the paint up.

So we'll know more soon. Then to call Honda and start the "Randyization" process Miles experienced. I have all winter and am tenacious.

[Gumby]

Washed and polished yesterday. I have bug impact marks in the fairing. They really couldn't make paint harder than a bug? I think every panel now has something very obvious and the gas door is just trashed.

The dealers test ride bike was pretty messed up when I ws there to have pictures taken.

Time to step it up with Honda USA.

The cycle world international show bike musta just been destroyed.

[Bike44]

The secret will be to get a long term test bike rider/writer to note the paint problems as they develop in print, with pics. Public embarrassment will force the issue for sure.

[Gumby]

I can't think of a motorcycle magazine that would have the balls to call out Honda like that.

[Bike44]

I can't think of a motorcycle magazine that would have the balls to call out Honda like that.

Yes, it may take a set of stainless to do it. The last time the M/C press experienced the common GPS off-course = reload failure problem on the 2012 Wing, Honda soiled themselves when it went to press and got it repaired very soon thereafter. We tried for months via Dealers and Honda Customer Service, but to no avail.

Edit: The power of a public call out to Honda...the GPS was fixed in short order:
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1108_2012_honda_gl1800_gold_wing/
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2012-bmw-k1600gtl-vs-2012-honda-gold-wing-shootout-video-91093.html?page=3

It will take public reporting (not just Forum chatter) and subsequent pressure and embarrassment to deal with the paint problem. The competition would take note of it, and then so would Honda. The real question is whether or not Honda North America can cause Honda Japan to react and support a fix and paint process change. I'm skeptical at this point.

No word from my dealer today on his contact with the Regional Tech Rep. Will stop by tomorrow and say hello again. Depending upon the response, I'll then proceed to Honda Customer Service and start a complaint via their system.

If I hear any reference to the use of Scratch-X or similar after the fact band aid, my response will be that my only obligation as an owner is to treat the bike's paint with normal respect, and follow the Owner's Manual...wash, dry, and use a non-abrasive polish. My obligation is not to buff out scratches and swirls unnecessarily caused by an inferior soft paint job from Honda apparently applied without an adequate clear overcoat. That's their problem to deal with and solve.

[Steve 0080]

My case has been turned over to " Randy " whoever that is...waiting on a call back..... holding my breath..... :jerkit:

[Bike44]

My case has been turned over to " Randy " whoever that is...waiting on a call back..... holding my breath..... :jerkit:

Randy's the person that Miles got his jaws tight over. Ask if they offer warranty coverage on paint...potentially due to a defect in materials or workmanship.

Ask how you're to maintain the paint differently than outlined in the Owners Manual to preserve the value of the F6B. Unnecessary loss of value due to a factory defect might involve a legal remedy at some point. My words, not an attorney's.

Oh, and maybe here's Randy's other day job:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nAiyz-POxI

[Bike44]

I spoke with my very good Dealer (I've bought 13 motorcycles from them) and Honda Customer Support (via Carlos a good phone rep BTW) today.

The Dealer had spoken earlier with their Tech Rep regarding the F6B paint. He only recommended I wash the bike periodically with a clean cloth, use Honda Spray Polish to protect, and remove any paint damage with 3M Finesse-It (TM). Non abrasive wax is also approved. Using Finesse-It will remove paint, as there's no clear coating over the color. Periodically buffing out paint imperfections with a non-Honda product isn't mentioned in the Owner's Manual, but Honda apparently feels it's the secret to maintaining the bike's value.

My saddlebag covers were scratched from the sock covering they use inside the crate to cover the bike during shipment. My Dealer is considering what to do about that separate problem.

Carlos reaffirmed that there is no clear coating. It's only used by Honda to enhance a metallic paint. They have pulled product and the F6B paint (black and red) meets Honda's standards. They recommend the same as the Tech Rep as far as cleaning and maintenance of the surface. He noted that Goldwing owners are very particular about their motorcycles.

Honda offers a 45 day warranty on the paint, but in some cases will extend that within the 3-year general warranty. I'm not sure what warranty coverage would entail, and what the recovery process would involve.

My courteous reply to both the Dealer and Honda was that I was not happy with the paint, was concerned about eventual abnormal loss of value due to the excessive paint maintenance requirements beyond that which the Owner's Manual addresses, and would have not purchased the motorcycle had I known about what I feel is a serious problem or defect in construction.

Honda started a case# for me by VIN, and my Dealer (somewhat caught in the middle) has said they'd discuss both their and my options to be made whole again and get back to me. The SM agreed that going forward the potential paint maintenance was excessive compared with other lines they sell (HD and BMW).

We'll see what happens next.

[MichaelG]

My case has been turned over to " Randy " whoever that is...waiting on a call back..... holding my breath..... :jerkit:

Steve, turning your case over to Randy basically means you just got screwed. Randy is going to do nothing, other than give you lip service, and tell you that Honda thinks there is nothing at all wrong with the paint...that you are the only person in the world with this complaint...that Honda has found that if you use the 3M Finesse, it will take away the swirls and marks and scratches...etc, etc, etc.

My # 1 concern at this point is: I do not want to allow Honda to get a foothold into thinking that there is nothing wrong with the paint, when many of us know there is a problem. I want to stop Randy and Honda from going down the wrong path, and if that means a class-action lawsuit, then so be it.

I am NOT asking that Honda fix my bike right this minute. That is why I have a 3 year warranty. And I had my bad paint documented within the first 2 weeks of owning this bike. So it is not like I waited for a couple months to go by. I just want Honda to STOP lying to us...recognize that there is in fact a problem, and then decide how they want to make each and every one of us happy, and our bikes corrected to what the paint should be. If that takes another year or two, then fine. I can wait for that. But STOP lying to me today. Stop treating me as if I have never owned a motorcycle before, let alone 3 other Honda Goldwing 1800's, all which had perfect paint on them. Stop telling me that I do not know how to wash my bike, or that this is normal for a Black painted bike. It is not.:banghead:

[unsub]

My courteous reply to both the Dealer and Honda was that I was not happy with the paint, was concerned about eventual abnormal loss of value due to the excessive paint maintenance requirements beyond that which the Owner's Manual addresses, and would have not purchased the motorcycle had I known about what I feel is a serious problem or defect in construction.


Honda hires some pretty bright folks with healthy salaries to draft warranty language that protects them. :shhh: That's right y'all warranties are not designed to protect the consumer, they are designed to protect the manufacturers and the vendors. Additionally the bike's intended purpose or operational safety right at this moment is not impacted by the paint issue.

You and others may find that until you actually sell your motorbike, the loss of value cannot be determined. IF at time of sale you can demonstrate how the actual selling price is lower than market value and can directly be attributed to the perceived poor paint you might have some ammo.

I think warranty is a non starter unless someone can prove Honda was aware or ought to have been aware of paint quality issues, or Honda acknowledges it outright.

If Honda capitulates on this issue it will be out of good will and probably on a case by case basis. Lucky for us Honda has exercised goodwill in the past so there is hope.

[Bike44]

One thing that Honda in CA said today was that the warranty was handled between the dealer and tech support staff, or whatever they call the folks that tour the country settling warranty claims and offering info speak. The dial up customer support end doesn't get involved with those matters. Normally I was told the dealer takes pics to document the issue and then works to solve the problem. If there's no problem, then any time spent by the dealer is potentially paid for by the owner.

That's what I was told. I've yet to hear back from my dealer, but it'll probably be soon like tomorrow. If given a chance at this point (less than three weeks and low miles into ownership) I'm inclined to sell or trade the paint problem with the bike. I don't intend to become a paint maintenance b*tch for a Honda motorcycle.

[Steve 0080]

No return call......... How far is CA. ?

[troypennock]

I went to my dealer, Cycle Shack North, had them take pictures of my bike (F6BD), my odometer (900 miles), and my wax rag (besmudged red). I filed a warranty claim stating I had purchased 9 new Hondas and 5 used Hondas and every one of them had clearcoat paint topping. This one had no clearcoat topping and I had a reasonable expectation, unless otherwise told, that there should be clearcoating on this bike or it would surely fade in the Houston sun.

[Scotrod]

Gary, I know you trade bikes every year,,, maybe you'll have 2 trades this year.

Yeah, I know,,, not much consolation,,, At least you have the ways and means to do it. Many wouldn't be able to 'address' it in that manner...

Heck, I don't even have mine yet and we already have 'trade it in / take it back' conversations started,,, :icon_frown:

I don't have any realistic way to cheer folks up about this issue, but with a company as huge as Honda, on an issue like this, it will take a long, long time to see 'fruits of your labor' on anything greater than a case by case basis. (I work in Warranty Services for a commercial building manufacturer, believe me,,, its very s l o w ,,,,)

Not sure if it helps, but don't lose faith if results are slower than mud,,, Just keep on reminding / updating folks who'll listen that might be able to help and keep your sanity.

[Scotrod]

Has anyone taken their bike to an independent 3rd party for evaluation? (Could be as simple as a paint supplier or MC body repair shop with someone who KNOWS the specifics of the paint in question)

It may prove to be informative.

On a slightly different note, some of the 'suede' paint jobs that seem to be so popular are turning out to be a PITA to those who expected it to keep looking 'like new' for a reasonable amount of time. (The paint is designed to 'weather').

Obviously Honda isn't using 'suede' paint, but I wonder if a paint guru could shed some light on what may be occurring with some of the newer paints, and/or what may be helpful/harmful to 'em.

Any paint guru's here???

[Bike44]

Don't fret Scotrod, I'm not losing any more sleep over the issue. Done with the denial and anger stages, now moving on to the bargaining phase of relative grief before the snow hits us in a month to six weeks. I own the bike so the choice is mine to make.

One thing Honda told me when asked was that clear coating the existing paint now wasn't possible. That may be true, but I'm not a painter by choice so can't confirm.

The sad thing is that the rest of the platform is very very good. Why did they choose to cheap out the covering? Two or three layer low VOC water based paints are available. The BS Honda said about only metallics needing a clear coat is just that.

[SpeedyWho]

How many of you have contacted Honda personally? Your dealer will do nothing for you on this issue trust me, I wont step foot in my dealer again because of the lack of customer service I received. You Have to badger Honda, write them letters I did and I got new panels. The paint is BS on these panels as well but they did something for me.

[Scotrod]

I know a bit about the paints we use for buildings, but I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about 'auto/MC' paints.

If there is no seperate clearcoat on top, it would seem ~normal~ to me that polishing and waxing rags would end up a little 'color stained'. Wax. polish, etc,,, they all remove a little of the top layer, be it clear or color. Waxing or polishing frequently/excessively may not help the matter. Of course, we all want 'em to look nice, but where does one draw the line?

Can't say if clear-coat is more abrasion-resitant than the 'new' paint. Maybe? or is it just another layer of 'similar' stuff with no color (Again, I admit I know nothing about Auto/MC paint, just asking)

Hoping/assuming the older OEM Honda blue HOR will be spraying on my bike will not be made of this 'new formula',,,

[Bike44]

It'll all work out eventually folks. Soon American Honda will realize their error in not tough coating the paint and will correct the process. I suspect they will also make good to current owners about any excessive wear under warranty. Just be sure to notify your dealer and customer support of your concerns to get on their fix list.

This pm I'm going back to a new 2012 HD FLHTK Ultra. I owned one a couple of years ago and it served us well.

Been a fun but all too short ride on the F6B.

[Scotrod]

I guess it just wasn't meant to be,,, At least you are familiar with the next bike. Shouldn't be any suprises.

Better ride the snot out of it ASAP,,, Your riding season is pretty darn short!!!

BE SAFE!!!!

[troypennock]

Filed the claim for missing clearcoat on my red paint. The Service Manager called a few minutes ago and said Honda had my claim and it would remain open as long as I owned the bike. They changed paint procedures in 2012 and no longer put clearcoat on any of their bikes. I said I believe every word they say. I also asked if there were any paint claims on any other colors. He did not know. I am doubtful that I will rub thru the paint. Houston is at 29lat-95lon, about the same latitude as Cairo, Egypt. The sun fades things in a hurry and without the topping I fear I will have a pink bike in five years. Until I have "measurable damages" I guess I will cool my jets. This statement makes me pose the question: Do I have resale damages NOW for their undisclosed paint procedure? And that causes me to ask: What constitutes a class?

[kentucky strong]

Is the paint issue only with the red? Any issues with black as of yet?

[chipmaker]

Both.....................

[MichaelG]

Is the paint issue only with the red? Any issues with black as of yet?


Kentucky...where have you been hiding for the past few months...in the hollers of the backwood trees ? :icon_wink:
I know you are new here, and that was "meant" to be funny...in a failed attempt.

There are just as many Black bikes as Red bikes that have this problem. The Red bikes may fade to Pink, and the Black bikes will fade to Grey. Both paint colors are affected. :icon_cool:

[FX44]

I was in my local dealership yesterday and spoke with one of their salesmen about the F6b that was on the floor there (Vin 811), I intentionally failed to mention the fact that I had bought the only F6b that they had sold so far (Vin 675), back in March. I mentioned that I had heard that folks were having issues with the paint on their brand new bikes and he proceeded to tell me about the crappy paint issues with their bike, and it has never left the showroom floor. He told me of course that they only use Honda products and terry cloth to clean the bikes and it has scratches all over it, They have had the bike on the floor for nearly 5 months and he says numerous customers have mentioned the scratches on the new F6b. I would venture to say that if the bikes are going to sit on the floor long enough for the paint issues to show,the dealers will be screaming to Ma Honda also.

What is the full VIN of your bike and what color is it?

[choptop]

Possible silly question and may have already been addressed but when you purchase a said series F6B, w/ custom 2 tone paint, do they clear coat the paint, just saw (1) on E bay for 19,000, whats to keep you from having it repainted Black, for that price, if they clear coat ? Thanks in advance.

[kentucky strong]

Kentucky...where have you been hiding for the past few months...in the hollers of the backwood trees ? :icon_wink:
I know you are new here, and that was "meant" to be funny...in a failed attempt.

There are just as many Black bikes as Red bikes that have this problem. The Red bikes may fade to Pink, and the Black bikes will fade to Grey. Both paint colors are affected. :icon_cool:

Well, that's good information. I actually have this for sale to fund the purchase of an F6B.

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcy/4009452483.html

I would purchase a black one, and have thought about waiting for 2014 models since the riding season is in it's twilight for the year, and I am thinking I might wait to see if this paint issue is resolved. I'm assuming there are no changes in the 2014 model? I will stay rather quiet on this list since I presently don't own a F6B, but am quite smitten by the bike. I'm 57, and have been riding some type of motorized two wheeler since I was 12. Although I have never owned a cruiser I think that's where my future enjoyment lies. The days of the sports bikes are fading for me although I still enjoy taking my Aprilia rs 125 out on the back roads. Besides the paint issue, I find the opinions on the F6B are quite positive. This list is quite informative. Thanks, and I'm going back to my holler, and find that tree.

[Pedro66]

Well, that's good information. I actually have this for sale to fund the purchase of an F6B.

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcy/4009452483.html

I would purchase a black one, and have thought about waiting for 2014 models since the riding season is in it's twilight for the year, and I am thinking I might wait to see if this paint issue is resolved. I'm assuming there are no changes in the 2014 model? I will stay rather quiet on this list since I presently don't own a F6B, but am quite smitten by the bike. I'm 57, and have been riding some type of motorized two wheeler since I was 12. Although I have never owned a cruiser I think that's where my future enjoyment lies. The days of the sports bikes are fading for me although I still enjoy taking my Aprilia rs 125 out on the back roads. Besides the paint issue, I find the opinions on the F6B are quite positive. This list is quite informative. Thanks, and I'm going back to my holler, and find that tree.

Not sure there will be a 2014 bike just keep selling the 2013

[Steve 0080]

Called Honda back as I did not get a return call from Randy, No Last Name, had a very cordial conversation at length ...Randy said he would get back with me by next Wed..........

[MichaelG]

Well, that's good information. I actually have this for sale to fund the purchase of an F6B.

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/mcy/4009452483.html




Kentucky, that Duc is a beauty. I have a coupler of vintage collector bikes myself, but lean toward the older English bikes, rather than the Italians.

No need to be quiet on this forum, as this is the best way to learn about your future bike, before you buy. Jump in, ask questions, and have fun.

The paint issue will NOT be changed before the next model year, so look at getting a late 2013 bike, that a dealer is paying flooring on, as he waits for the next bikes to be delivered.

[Scotrod]

Certain dealers will Custom-paint the F6B before you buy it. As an example, Honda of Russellville has "Signature Series" bikes.

[Bike44]

Perhaps some encouraging news...I was at my Honda-HD dealer yesterday changing bikes as I indicated above, and Carlos from Honda Customer Service called them to confirm they existed and what phone number they normally used. Seems like an odd question as obviously they answered his call. Whatever.

They paged me and I spoke with him regarding the warranty claim/paint issues. He was just finishing their internal paperwork trail and said he'd get back at some point if there was and development. Not sure what that meant, but at least they're aware of our concerns.

I am still concerned even though I no longer own the F6B as I've a chosen responsibility to ensure the paint is taken care of for any new owner along with the dealer. Even though the warranty is transferable, sometimes the new owner is unknown to Honda for some time, so he may contact me first.

I finessed the bike before sale with the recommended 3-M product, Honda spray polish, and it looked good. Hope it finds a good home with a happy owner.

[SpeedyWho]

Good for you, I was at the point where I was going to do the same thing. I'd end up loseing to much to do that right now. Honda dropped the Ball on the paint really effing bad. I wouldn't have bought one if I knew about it. My next bike won't be a Honda if this goes unfixed.

[Bike44]

Good for you, I was at the point where I was going to do the same thing. I'd end up loseing to much to do that right now. Honda dropped the Ball on the paint really effing bad. I wouldn't have bought one if I knew about it. My next bike won't be a Honda if this goes unfixed.

My wife and I talked it over before the changeout. I've wanted a yellow motorcycle for years, she hates the color. I have a yellow PA-11 Cub, she rides in it only because the inside is black (or so she says). My plan was to have my red F6B repainted this winter my favorite color, but that met with a hot tongue and a cold shoulder. So, I did what I did as a compromise.

Really repainting the bike in a non-standard paint scheme can't be all that difficult. It might get expensive, but considering the platform is excellent, then why not?

I owned a matte black 2010 Harley Road Glide (the fixed fairing shark nose model) for some time. It had what they call an eggshell clear coat over the black base and striking pin striping. The matte finish came from the eggshell clear overlay. It was remarkably easy to maintain compared to shiny stuff. Just a quick wipedown with a spray cleaner and polish (HD's but Honda sells it also) and I was good to go for another week. Something to consider for those that prefer black.

[Scotrod]

All yellow, or yellow n black?

http://www.hondaofrussellville.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=04510919X8K23K2013J2I55 I03JPMQ2743R0&veh=332385&pov=3345784

[Bike44]

All yellow, or yellow n black?

http://www.hondaofrussellville.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?sid=04510919X8K23K2013J2I55 I03JPMQ2743R0&veh=332385&pov=3345784

Now that's what I'd want...the Bumble Bee Special Edition. I'd also consider the matte clear over the yellow, it's a durable easy to maintain finish. HD's sorta gotten away from that painting technique in favor of candy azz metal flake to appeal to certain ethnic groups (I was told buy the dealer) who favor flash. Yup, another missed opportunity gone in favor of domestic tranquility.

[Scotrod]

. HD's sorta gotten away from that painting technique in favor of candy azz metal flake to appeal to certain ethnic groups (I was told buy the dealer) who favor flash.

Yep, I kinda figured 'older white boy' was not the target audience for the candy flakes!! LOL!

HD has been doing pretty good lately at building a 'wider' customer base. Cool. I have no problem with that! I like looking at most everybody's interpretation of what a bike should look like. Doesn't mean I'd want one for my own, but some are pretty spiffy!!

[Bike44]

Looking forward to you paint scheme and test ride report soon...enjoy, they are fun!