Gas Pumps

[JohnnyB]

Just a heads up, something I realized recently while getting gas. I have always used premium fuel in my motorcycles. While filling up the other day it hit me that some gas pumps have three to four different grades but one pump. Since most people use regular, when I buy premium I probably get 1 or 11/2 gallons of regular in my tank(gas in the 5 or 6 foot hose) before the "premium" kicks in! So in my relatively small motorcycle tank it has only about 4/5ths of a tank of premium. I now have found some gas stations that have a separate pump for each grade. Seems petty I know, but when you pay for premium I want premium (all of it)!

[stepbill]

I could be wrong but I believe that we're supposed to use the 89 grade gas, not the premium which is 91.

[zzh54]

The bike will run on 89, but you can use higher octane if you so desire. I use 91 towards the end of my year just to have better gas to mix the sta-bil with, and the first couple in the spring I run high grade also.

[Ericb445]

American Petroleum Institute says the average hose contains about 1/3 of a gallon.

[Az Wingrider]

My owners manual says minimum octane is 86. I've had two gl1800s and two Valkyries that I always ran on regular. The F6B has never seen anything but 87 octane except in New Mexico where I have a hard time putting the 86 octane they sell there in the bike. If the motor doesn't require 91 octane there is no benefit to putting it in the bike. If it doesn't require 91 octane and there is no benefit to running it I don't spend the extra money.

[Cool Hand Luke]

My owners manual says minimum octane is 86. I've had two gl1800s and two Valkyries that I always ran on regular. The F6B has never seen anything but 87 octane except in New Mexico where I have a hard time putting the 86 octane they sell there in the bike. If the motor doesn't require 91 octane there is no benefit to putting it in the bike. If it doesn't require 91 octane and there is no benefit to running it I don't spend the extra money.

I second that. I always run 87 and did it on my previous GW, no problems whatsoever. In fact, that's one of the reasons I bought it, got tired of trying to find a good deal on premium for my HD and BMW in the past. Around here most gas stations only advertise the price of regular on their signs. Sometimes a gas station with the cheapest regular has more expensive price for premium. I got tired of trying to get a good deal on premium.

I also own 3 other vehicles, a sports car, an suv and a pickup truck. All run fine on regular, which is what says for them in the manual as well. The only other vehicle I own that requires premium is my Victory XC, but I can tolerate it for now.

Once I had to put regular gas in my BMW Z3 convertible, needed gas and the station was out of premium. The engine started to produce smoke and run like crap! I added premium as fast as I could and it got better. That was the only time I saw such a difference on gas grade.

[Jimmytee]

All I run is 87 in my Valkyrie and F6B.

[shooter]

OK I don't know if this is true everywhere but the only gas that has a true octane is regular and premium. The 89 is blended at the station. And guess what? Most times you get screwed. That's the way they do it in MO. I run Premium all the time and mostly Shell or BP. I have never had the cold stumble that others claim and in the summer when its 95° I don't worry about spark knock. My bike always runs great. Another benefit with the brands I mentioned is the premium detergent packages both have in their top grade fuels. Being a mechanic most of my life I've seen too many fuel related problems. Living in a state where we experience temperature extremes at both ends I like the peace of mind I get with a top grade fuel.

[Jimmytee]

OK I don't know if this is true everywhere but the only gas that has a true octane is regular and premium. The 89 is blended at the station. And guess what? Most times you get screwed. That's the way they do it in MO. I run Premium all the time and mostly Shell or BP. I have never had the cold stumble that others claim and in the summer when its 95° I don't worry about spark knock. My bike always runs great. Another benefit with the brands I mentioned is the premium detergent packages both have in their top grade fuels. Being a mechanic most of my life I've seen too many fuel related problems. Living in a state where we experience temperature extremes at both ends I like the peace of mind I get with a top grade fuel.

TO each their own. I've never experienced the cold stumble either, and it cost me less.:stirthepot::nutkick:

[shooter]

Jimmy , why would you kick me in the nutz just cause I run premium. I wouldn't do that to you.:wrong:

[Jimmytee]

Jimmy , why would you kick me in the nutz just cause I run premium. I wouldn't do that to you.:wrong:

:icon_biggrin::cheers:

[bob109]

With just over 45K miles on the clock my 6 has never seen a drop of High Test Gas. Have treated it several times to a can of Sea Foam and I manage 38/42 MPG. Once in a while I'll experience the "famed stumble" when cold:shock: Gas, like tires, like oil, like exhausts, like wind shields, like seats, like color is a personal choice. If it makes one happy to spend the extra bucks for Premium Gas, have at it:icon_biggrin:

[wjduke]

I was on the forum for a while before I got mine and read that regular is what it calls for. My book said the same and that's what I've used since I got it in November. No issue and great mileage, but, the first ping I hear will be the end of that. I haven't run a full summer yet, we'll see.

[114th COBRA]

I was on the forum for a while before I got mine and read that regular is what it calls for. My book said the same and that's what I've used since I got it in November. No issue and great mileage, but, the first ping I hear will be the end of that. I haven't run a full summer yet, we'll see.

+1 Like you I got mine in November and just turned 1109 in miles and it's running great on 87. :icon_biggrin:

[seadog]

I run regular all the time but I think what's more important than octane is quality. There are a lot of companies out there that are selling just garbage for gasoline. Some I wouldn't put in my worst enemies motorcycles. I run shell 85 % of the time and if I can't find that BP or Mobil are my next choices. I consider Wesco gas up here in Michigan to be the worst on the market. There was a time I thought all gasoline was equal but not anymore. All my vehicles run perfect since I figure that out many years ago.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I run regular all the time but I think what's more important than octane is quality. There are a lot of companies out there that are selling just garbage for gasoline. Some I wouldn't put in my worst enemies motorcycles. I run shell 85 % of the time and if I can't find that BP or Mobil are my next choices. I consider Wesco gas up here in Michigan to be the worst on the market. There was a time I thought all gasoline was equal but not anymore. All my vehicles run perfect since I figure that out many years ago.

I agree! I use 87 octane but I am selective when it comes to gas stations, too. I also prefer Shell but use a few other brands. Also, I won't use Citgo at all as that is gas from Venezuela. Their government hates us and did so for years (Hugo Chavez, glad you're gone) but like our money. I choose not to support them.

[ReserveBum]

Use regular regularly.....but I will put a tank of Ethanol Free Premium in towards he end of he year to get ready for storage. I cant tell difference in performance but it does get better mileage

[wjduke]

I agree! I use 87 octane but I am selective when it comes to gas stations, too. I also prefer Shell but use a few other brands. Also, I won't use Citgo at all as that is gas from Venezuela. Their government hates us and did so for years (Hugo Chavez, glad you're gone) but like our money. I choose not to support them.

I agree here...I've only used Mobil so far, but I have a charge card for Shell also. When I travel this summer, I'll hope to find one of those, but will settle when I have to. Same for Citgo too. I have one a mile from my house, but for different reasons, am done with them. They changed credit cards, then closed my old one right in the middle of a payment period. I was locked out for a bit, and they charged my account a penalty. I tried to explain what happened to no avail. I paid my balance and closed it.

[scoplin]

Using the pure gas app I located ethanol free gas close by and use it as much as I can.

[opas ride]

I usually run a tank of 93 octane mixed with the 87 grade, 1/2 & 1/2 and have never had any fuel issues or "cold stumbling" that some have reported...Almost 9000 miles so far except for an occasional shot of Seafoam, all seems to be okay...Have tried the higher octane on occasion and noticed no difference between it and the 87 octane...Always use Mobil or BP as I have credit cards with them. Personally, I don't think it makes much difference how much of the previous customers fuel choice is left in the hose...JMHO...Ride safe

[3Chief]

Chevron premium myself, I've seen the difference in other vehicles. Maybe it's just piece of mind with the B, however the extra $1 or so a tank doen't matter to me.

[RickJ]

REGULAR...Unless they have ethanol free- I don't believe I've ever seen ethanol- free, regular around here. I wish!

[ReserveBum]

REGULAR...Unless they have ethanol free- I don't believe I've ever seen ethanol- free, regular around here. I wish!

Rick, Come towards the Albany Saratoga area....many of the Stewarts have the ethanol free now

[stroguy]

Rick, Come towards the Albany Saratoga area....many of the Stewarts have the ethanol free now

That's great. My trip through rural LA revealed how desirable true gas is. I want to believe my B appreciated the fine wine from the pump.

[Jim-oz]

OK I don't know if this is true everywhere but the only gas that has a true octane is regular and premium. The 89 is blended at the station. And guess what? Most times you get screwed. That's the way they do it in MO. I run Premium all the time and mostly Shell or BP. I have never had the cold stumble that others claim and in the summer when its 95° I don't worry about spark knock. My bike always runs great. Another benefit with the brands I mentioned is the premium detergent packages both have in their top grade fuels. Being a mechanic most of my life I've seen too many fuel related problems. Living in a state where we experience temperature extremes at both ends I like the peace of mind I get with a top grade fuel.

I agree, here in Australia we have the same choices as you do on fuel grades, in many years of riding and driving the only problems i have had is with standard fuel, more importantly though i had a neighbor who was a fuel tanker driver who told me that whenever they carried standard unleaded they regularly had to clean the tankers out because of a buildup of deposits and crap but with higher grade fuels [more cleaning agents], no problems, so he and his fellow drivers all use premium in their own cars/bikes. It certainly can't harm and is worth the extra dollar or two for my 'peace of mind.

Jim

[Old Ryder]

As a guy who drove a gasoline tanker for a few years, allow me to share some training and insight.

1-All vehicles are designed and tuned for a specific octane that is mentioned in the owners manual. Compression ratio and timing are factored in. Example: If the manual calls for 87 octane, that is how it is engineered and designed. You will not harm it by running 93, but it is not necessary and you are not getting any benefit. But if it makes you feel better, it is your money and it is not my job to tell you how to spend it. Now if it calls for 93, the you need 93 and no less.

2-All gas comes from the same pipeline. The US Gvnt sets a minimum standard for additives to allow the EFI sensors to function without buildup. Discount gasoline goes by this standard and are a few cents cheaper. Shell, Exxon, BP, Chevron and a few others go above the minimum standard and cost more.

As it was explained to me, you can buy a quality product every fill up or a can of Seafoam once a month for the same result.

Buy what makes you sleep better every night.

[willtill]

Premium (higher octane) just means that the fuel is more resistant to combustion.

I don't think that anyone is getting a "better grade" of fuel due to that.

The bike calls for regular... 87 octane... a common octane that is refreshed more often than not at the pumps; as compared to mid grade or premium.

I feed my F6B with Shell's 87 octane... it is one of the top tier gasoline suppliers in the U.S. Never had an issue with Shell's 87 octane in any of my wide application of internal combustion engines...

[Jim-oz]

Glad to see you guys are on the ball, just testing your reactions you see! Just what i was told.

What i am interested in as well though, is most of your fuel [standard at least] is it a blend of ethanol 5/10 %, i gather it is, over here it is viewed with great suspicion and, possibly wildly exaggerated tales of woe, is it that bad?. non-blended is hard to find, thought's please?

[willtill]

Glad to see you guys are on the ball, just testing your reactions you see! Just what i was told.

What i am interested in as well though, is most of your fuel [standard at least] is it a blend of ethanol 5/10 %, i gather it is, over here it is viewed with great suspicion and, possibly wildly exaggerated tales of woe, is it that bad?. non-blended is hard to find, thought's please?

It's mostly 10% over here mate. But there are efforts to make it 15% which are being fought. Hasn't happened yet across our nation.

[Jim-oz]

Same here, thanks for the response but do you find ethanol OK? By the way your aviator, is that Cav? I recognize the badge but can't remember.

[willtill]

Same here, thanks for the response but do you find ethanol OK? By the way your aviator, is that Cav? I recognize the badge but can't remember.

Jim. I have had no issues with 10 percent ethanol with the motors (many) that I run. I do however, treat them occasionally to doses of SeaFoam; which may negate any issues if I had not done it in the first place.

I am Cav. albeit retired now...

http://www.hood.army.mil/1stcavdiv/

[Jim-oz]

Thanks mate/buddy, i can't seem to get through to the link you sent but I'll try off the forum. Always good to converse with fellow veterans.

Jim

[DaWadd]

My two cents, I run regular all the time. Previous experience with premium in other bikes is carbon build up. I find I get better mileage with regular. Only time my "6" gets premium is for storage in the late fall.

[xltsport]

My brother said when he drove fuel truck. They all bought fuel at the same terminal. Only a few choices everyone bought at which one was cheaper. Even the ones like bp have exemptions if they are too far away from their own branded terminal. They just have their own protocol ie additive added by their people or by the driver. Alot of the stations contract their fuel hauling. The same guy might stop at several different stations.

[Old Ryder]

The BP terminal sold BP, Citgo, Walmart, etc......

The Citgo terminal provided Citgo, She'll, Hess and others

The Exxon terminal sold Phillips, Cheveron, Shell, Exxon and BP

What makes each brand unique is the additive mixture. A code is entered according to the destination and the correct mixture is made during the loading process.

Yes----when a trailer holds 9,000 gallons of gasoline different stops are made at different locations. The normal trailer has 5 different compartments, so you could service 5 different stations with 5 different brands. As a common carrier, the driver has a card for each terminal and the customer has a code or an account at the terminal. The customer code is punched in and the proper mixture/brand is loaded into the compartment the driver has designated for that customer. Money is deducted from the customers account when the trailer is loaded and it is the drivers responsibility to keep it organized. "Mixing product" or otherwise known as improper delivery is grounds for dismissal.

The misconception is that all 9,000 gallons are mixed together and some is left here and some is left there. There is a lot more to it than that. Stations are trusting the driver to load and deliver the specific product they have ordered.

[Maddoggie501]

I ran a BMW motorcycle shop several years ago. Some BMW's seem to have drivability issues, which BMW Motorrad says is related to Ethanol. BMW Motorrad sent out information that owners should only use gas from Top Tier Stations, Mobil, Shell, etc. They said the problems were from to much Ethanol in the gas at discount gas stations. We started testing customers bikes with drivability issues and found some fuel contained 30 to 40% Ethanol. BMW's don't like anything over 10% Ethanol. Some customers found Ethanol free stations and claimed their bikes ran way better. I don't have easy access to Ethanol free gas and have not tried any in the F6B yet. However, I do run premium gas from Top Tier Stations.

[wjduke]

We're pretty much all ethanol up here. I toss in some Seafoam every 3 or 4 tanks of fuel, run 87 and haven't heard or had an issue yet. I am paying attention.

[Patch]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, but may be overlooked is not the fuel (I worked at several gas stations in my youth, and a couple as a second job within the last six years) so only presenting what I do know. As those that drive or know drivers have mentioned, the fuel all comes from, essentially, the same place. However, the delivery locations tanks and pumps vary greatly. There is a 15ft measuring pole, some white paste and in two establishments, a 12 ft pole with what looks like a hard sponge spoon on the end of it.

The measuring pole is used to determine the amount of fuel left in the tank by checking for the wet line. One then applies the paste to the wet section at and below the wet line and re-dips the pole. If it changes to pink (or blue in one case), this would signify the amount of water in the tank. This had to usually be done early morning before the trucks started arriving. Exxon, Shell and 7-Eleven were all good at having very little to no water in their tanks. However, the stop-n-go and sack-n-save locations I worked at had quite a bit of water built up in their tanks, and not just the low octane tank, but even the high octane. The two places that had the sponge pole, it was used to determine the amount of particulates in the tanks. We checked these when the tanks were low (less than 6 inches of fuel left) or after we just got the tank filled. These were particulates that were larger in general. While the pumps have a filter on them, usually if particulates showed up on the sponge, the tank needed to be cleaned because we would get small particulates in a 5 gallon plastic container fill test.

I steer clear of stations that are in the middle of getting fuel, or I see a fuel truck leaving. Even though they are likely dropping in good fuel, the amount of junk it churns up needs some settling time...like several hours.

[wjduke]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, but may be overlooked is not the fuel (I worked at several gas stations in my youth, and a couple as a second job within the last six years) so only presenting what I do know. As those that drive or know drivers have mentioned, the fuel all comes from, essentially, the same place. However, the delivery locations tanks and pumps vary greatly. There is a 15ft measuring pole, some white paste and in two establishments, a 12 ft pole with what looks like a hard sponge spoon on the end of it.

The measuring pole is used to determine the amount of fuel left in the tank by checking for the wet line. One then applies the paste to the wet section at and below the wet line and re-dips the pole. If it changes to pink (or blue in one case), this would signify the amount of water in the tank. This had to usually be done early morning before the trucks started arriving. Exxon, Shell and 7-Eleven were all good at having very little to no water in their tanks. However, the stop-n-go and sack-n-save locations I worked at had quite a bit of water built up in their tanks, and not just the low octane tank, but even the high octane. The two places that had the sponge pole, it was used to determine the amount of particulates in the tanks. We checked these when the tanks were low (less than 6 inches of fuel left) or after we just got the tank filled. These were particulates that were larger in general. While the pumps have a filter on them, usually if particulates showed up on the sponge, the tank needed to be cleaned because we would get small particulates in a 5 gallon plastic container fill test.

I steer clear of stations that are in the middle of getting fuel, or I see a fuel truck leaving. Even though they are likely dropping in good fuel, the amount of junk it churns up needs some settling time...like several hours.

:yes:

[VStarRider]

Makes sense to me that one carrier distributes fuel to several different branded stations, using subtanks aboard the truck, driver does mixing, etc. I have seen a Patriot Oil tanker go to several different fuel stops from one distributor and wondered how they got away with that.

As for fuel, I default to the owners manual. That language has to survive a 3-7 year warranty period and possibly 100,000+ miles, so I am guessing they write their recommendations with confidence.

I run 87 except prior to storage in all fuel injected vehicles. The ethanol and detergents keeps the fuel system clean. I wonder if long term usage of 91 non-ethanol gas in fuel-injected engines causes dirty fuel system issues over time...:shrug:

[Maddoggie501]

I'm not a petroleum engineer, but I never read anything good that Ethanol does for our motorcycles. I do not believe it has any effect on cleaning the fuel system. Instead it can damage fuel systems when used. Unfortunately, its difficult to locate Ethanol free gasoline for a reasonable price. The below information might shed some light on Ethanol use.

Ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning it absorbs water vapor directly from the atmosphere. Because absorbed water dilutes the fuel value of the ethanol and may cause phase separation of ethanol-gasoline blends (which causes engine stall), containers of ethanol fuels must be kept tightly sealed. This high miscibility with water means that ethanol cannot be efficiently shipped through modern pipelines, like liquid hydrocarbons, over long distances.[26] Mechanics also have seen increased cases of damage to small engines, in particular, the carburetor, attributable to the increased water retention by ethanol in fuel.

The fraction of water that an ethanol-gasoline fuel can contain without phase separation increases with the percentage of ethanol.[28] This shows, for example, that E30 can have up to about 2% water. If there is more than about 71% ethanol, the remainder can be any proportion of water or gasoline and phase separation does not occur. The fuel mileage declines with increased water content. The increased solubility of water with higher ethanol content permits E30 and hydrated ethanol to be put in the same tank since any combination of them always results in a single phase. Somewhat less water is tolerated at lower temperatures. For E10 it is about 0.5% v/v at 70 F and decreases to about 0.23% v/v at −30 F.

[wjduke]

I haven't noticed any fuel issues in either bike I've owned since 2012. I ran premium in my last bike and regular in this one. All the fuel purchased has been 10% ethanol, because I don't know where non-ethanol even is around here. All I can come up with is that the use of seafoam has helped along the way. Maybe any additive would do the same, but seafoam was recommended when I began and is all I've used. I did change the fuel filter after 15,000 miles previously, but only as a precaution, not due to any problem. I'm going to continue as I have and not make this an issue until something gives cause. As said previously, I drop in a few ounces every few tanks of gas and I will ride past any gas station that is receiving a new load.

[jm21ddd15]

I haven't noticed any fuel issues in either bike I've owned since 2012. I ran premium in my last bike and regular in this one. All the fuel purchased has been 10% ethanol, because I don't know where non-ethanol even is around here.

Most of the gas stations around southern Wisconsin sell premium gas with no ethanol. I use it with no problems, and when I travel away, where I need to use the ethanol fuels, I have also had no issues. I think as long as the fuel gets used up in a short period of time, there is no problems. If you gotta store the bike, then Sea foam works well. Probably other stabilizes work fine, too.

[Travelor]

I haven't noticed any fuel issues in either bike I've owned since 2012. I ran premium in my last bike and regular in this one. All the fuel purchased has been 10% ethanol, because I don't know where non-ethanol even is around here.


Most of the gas stations around southern Wisconsin sell premium gas with no ethanol. .

You are right, they do. But the octane is also not 93 like most premium, it is only 91. I ran into issues running WI premium in my K1200lt, which requires 93 octane. Loss of power, and rough running. It is possible that it was a problem with the gas at one or two stations, so not totally sure if the lower octane was the problem.

[Maddoggie501]

I haven't noticed any fuel issues in either bike I've owned since 2012. I ran premium in my last bike and regular in this one. All the fuel purchased has been 10% ethanol, because I don't know where non-ethanol even is around here.


Most of the gas stations around southern Wisconsin sell premium gas with no ethanol. I use it with no problems, and when I travel away, where I need to use the ethanol fuels, I have also had no issues. I think as long as the fuel gets used up in a short period of time, there is no problems. If you gotta store the bike, then Sea foam works well. Probably other stabilizes work fine, too.

You are absolutely correct. It seems the Ethanol fuels don't have a long shelf life. I use fuel stabilizer in any bike that sits longer than two weeks. I'm lucky, in New Mexico, i pretty much ride year round.

[CopperMike]

Lots of good info. Thanks.