Are Brakes

[Heavvyduty]

Question, I know when we use are back brake it will activate the front also. But when we use just the front doz it activate the rear brake also.. Reading here in my owner manual it says it doz. But I just had my recall done an the service writer says it doz not.

[53driver]

Question, I know when we use are back brake it will activate the front also. But when we use just the front doz it activate the rear brake also.. Reading here in my owner manual it says it doz. But I just had my recall done an the service writer says it doz not.

Service writer needs some tech training. Yes, front brake lever actuation does activate a portion of the rear brake.

[shooter]

Yep. Service writer is a dumbazz. Don't ever assume that anyone at the dealership knows anything. It never ceases to amaze me just how stupid most of them are.

[TailGunner]

Sorry but you guys are wrong, the front brake only operates the front

[Heavvyduty]

Sorry but you guys are wrong, the front brake only operates the front

On page 58 at the very top of Owners Manual it says we have a DUAL CBS(Linked braking system) Can some one else ck there manual an see if it reads like mine.

[53driver]

On page 58 at the very top of Owners Manual it says we have a DUAL CBS(Linked braking system) Can some one else ck there manual an see if it reads like mine.

Mine says the same thing. 2014, non ABS.
Since I have the manual open, in the brake section, the dual CBS linkage is quite evident.

Tailgunner: what makes you believe they are not linked both ways?
Seriously, I'm always up for tech training.
Cheers,
Steve

[TailGunner]

For one thing it is the same system the vtx 1800 has, another is putting a dual system defeats what Honda in tented for our bikes. A lot of people use only their rear brake so for safety Honda linked the rear to the front. Also if you look at the bleed diagram in the manual it shows the front brake fluid only goes to the front

[53driver]

For one thing it is the same system the vtx 1800 has
I am ignorant of the VTX system - I figured this system would be nearer to what the GL1800A has.



another is putting a dual system defeats what Honda in tented for our bikes. I have to ask: what were Honda's intentions?



A lot of people use only their rear brake so for safety Honda linked the rear to the front.
I think that is actually less safe - if people are intentionally dragging their rear brake in a turn, unknowing application of the front brake could get "interactive" if not "catastrophically dynamic" in a hurry. Of course I always advocate using both brakes during classes. Personally? I'm a primarily front brake guy - keeps me honest.



Also if you look at the bleed diagram in the manual it shows the front brake fluid only goes to the front
I see (literally in the manual) what you are saying there - but bleeding a system and hydraulic pressure functionality are two very different things.


Someone (Big Larry, I think) posted a brake hydraulic flow chart that illustrated what happens when each brake lever is applied.
I think someone said to put the bike on the center stand and spin the rear wheel while someone applied the front brake.
I'd do it now but Isleen is taking her spa treatment this week getting her brake recall performed.

I'm pretty sure the "Second Master Cylinder", and the "PGM" somehow make a single rear piston activate when the front brake is applied.
I'll make my dealer explain it to me when I get Isleen.

Cheers,
Steve

[The Swede]

19888

19887

The Swede :icon_cool:

[wjduke]

For one thing it is the same system the vtx 1800 has, another is putting a dual system defeats what Honda in tented for our bikes. A lot of people use only their rear brake so for safety Honda linked the rear to the front. Also if you look at the bleed diagram in the manual it shows the front brake fluid only goes to the front

Do a lot of people seriously only use their rear brake? I use my front mainly and the rear as a back up.

[TailGunner]

I'll test mine in the morning,according to the bottom chart I could be wrong.

[Jimmytee]

My rear wheel does not brake with my front lever.

[willtill]

My rear wheel does not brake with my front lever.

Correct.

However the action of your front brake lever influences another device which will activate the rear brake. I shamefully stole the below information from Sabre85 (post #18 - http://hondaf6b.com/showthread.php?6116-What-is-linked-brakes&p=82037 because he explained it very well:


The rear pedal activates two outer pistons in the rear caliper and the center piston on both front calipers. The bake lever activates the 2 outside pistons on both front calipers. When the left front caliper is pressurized it rotates and activates the secondary master cylinder which then activates the rear center piston. There is a delay built into the system so that when stepping on the pedal the front does not activate immediately, and when using the brake lever the rears do not activate immediately. The magic happens in the proportion control valve and the delay valve. The picture in post #3 is accurate. I am fairly sure this is the fourth generation version of the Honda linked bakes.

[Jimmytee]

Correct.

However the action of your front brake lever influences another device which will activate the rear brake. I shamefully stole the below information from Sabre85 (post #18 - http://hondaf6b.com/showthread.php?6116-What-is-linked-brakes&p=82037 because he explained it very well:


The rear pedal activates two outer pistons in the rear caliper and the center piston on both front calipers. The bake lever activates the 2 outside pistons on both front calipers. When the left front caliper is pressurized it rotates and activates the secondary master cylinder which then activates the rear center piston. There is a delay built into the system so that when stepping on the pedal the front does not activate immediately, and when using the brake lever the rears do not activate immediately. The magic happens in the proportion control valve and the delay valve. The picture in post #3 is accurate. I am fairly sure this is the fourth generation version of the Honda linked bakes.


That's kind of what I was thinking, because in my memory, I seem to recall that the front lever would activate pistons in the rear caliper. Well, my bike was sitting on the center stand this morning, so I thought I'd go over and see. Sure enough, I was surprised that the rear wheel didn't seem to be affected by the front lever. However, in my mind I was wondering whether it made a difference whether the bike was actually rolling.

[willtill]

That's kind of what I was thinking, because in my memory, I seem to recall that the front lever would activate pistons in the rear caliper. Well, my bike was sitting on the center stand this morning, so I thought I'd go over and see. Sure enough, I was surprised that the rear wheel didn't seem to be affected by the front lever. However, in my mind I was wondering whether it made a difference whether the bike was actually rolling.

Yes, the bike has to be rolling (the left front rotor spinning) in order for the secondary master cylinder to be activated and initiate the follow on braking action for one of the three rear brake caliper pistons.

[shooter]

So the front brake lever does activate the rear caliper. To say that it doesn't is wrong , because it does. After all how many of us ride the bike on the center stand. I don't know about you guys but when I'm riding my front rotor is always spinning.

[Heavvyduty]

Looks like were all learning something today.:yikes:

[Audiochris90]

Still saveing up for a F6b, but my mint Vtx 1800r brake system which may be different than the goldwing, the pedal activates the rear and one side of the front caliper, the handlebar activates the otherside of the front. Why dont one of you guys centerstand it, spin the rear and grab some front brake? That should tell you the answer. I really want a F6b.

[Audiochris90]

Ok i read the post,
so it knows when its moving? How do it know?

Just kidding, really an amazing bike. The biggest benefit is most accessories are plug and play. The vtx stuff is always a hassle. I test drove a F6b a few months back. I liked it. I will say the vtx has a lot more guts down low but i still perfer the B.

[decubitus]

If I remember correctly, the service manual says to test the secondary master cylinder, put the bike on its center stand, or other suitable device, spin the rear wheel and push the left, front caliper up. The rear wheel should stop. I did that. It works.

[53driver]

If I remember correctly, the service manual says to test the secondary master cylinder, put the bike on its center stand, or other suitable device, spin the rear wheel and push the left, front caliper up. The rear wheel should stop. I did that. It works.

So, it seems the Secondary Master Cylinder functions like those non-electric trailer brake devices, i.e the car slows, applying rearward pressure to the cylinder and the piston activates the trailer wheel brakes.

So, no they are not hydraulically connected - score 1 for TailGunner
And no, activating the front brake lever does not directly activate the rear brake - 2 for TG.

However, when the bike is in motion, and the front brake lever is squeezed and the front calipers start to engage, the resulting upwards motion of the left front caliper, as depicted by the arrow in Swede's diagram,
19897causes the secondary master cylinder to compress, forcing brake fluid to eventually engage the rear brake.



I think I've got this now.
Thanks to everyone for their input!

Cheers,
Steve

[Travelor]

So, it seems the Secondary Master Cylinder functions like those non-electric trailer brake devices, i.e the car slows, applying rearward pressure to the cylinder and the piston activates the trailer wheel brakes.

So, no they are not hydraulically connected - score 1 for TailGunner
And no, activating the front brake lever does not directly activate the rear brake - 2 for TG.

However, when the bike is in motion, and the front brake lever is squeezed and the front calipers start to engage, the resulting upwards motion of the left front caliper, as depicted by the arrow in Swede's diagram, causes the secondary master cylinder to compress, forcing brake fluid to eventually engage the rear brake.

I think I've got this now.
Thanks to everyone for their input!

Cheers,
Steve

Thanks for the very succinct summary.

[BIGLRY]

So, it seems the Secondary Master Cylinder functions like those non-electric trailer brake devices, i.e the car slows, applying rearward pressure to the cylinder and the piston activates the trailer wheel brakes.

So, no they are not hydraulically connected - score 1 for TailGunner
And no, activating the front brake lever does not directly activate the rear brake - 2 for TG.

However, when the bike is in motion, and the front brake lever is squeezed and the front calipers start to engage, the resulting upwards motion of the left front caliper, as depicted by the arrow in Swede's diagram,
19897causes the secondary master cylinder to compress, forcing brake fluid to eventually engage the rear brake.



I think I've got this now.
Thanks to everyone for their input!

Cheers,
Steve +1

[willtill]

So, it seems the Secondary Master Cylinder functions like those non-electric trailer brake devices, i.e the car slows, applying rearward pressure to the cylinder and the piston activates the trailer wheel brakes

Surge brakes :icon_wink:

[The Swede]

Dual CBS (GL1800)
19898

CBS (VTX 1800)
19899

The Swede :icon_cool:

[53driver]

+1

And my understanding has been validated!
Thanks!

[53driver]

Surge brakes :icon_wink:

Thanks mate - Just getting to my second cup of coffee....

[edgeman55]

However, when the bike is in motion, and the front brake lever is squeezed and the front calipers start to engage, the resulting upwards motion of the left front caliper, as depicted by the arrow in Swede's diagram,
19897causes the secondary master cylinder to compress, forcing brake fluid to eventually engage the rear brake.



I think I've got this now.
Thanks to everyone for their input!

Cheers,
Steve

Thats correct and is why Honda is replacing the secondary master cylinder because if it goes haywire and won't realease the rear brake one is shit out of luck which was proven to me last week when my rear brake locked up at 45mph in a right hand sweeper!

[Steve 0080]

Thats correct and is why Honda is replacing the secondary master cylinder because if it goes haywire and won't realease the rear brake one is shit out of luck which was proven to me last week when my rear brake locked up at 45mph in a right hand sweeper!




Dammmmm that got your attention... I believe you are the first on this forum to actually have the problem show it's ugly head...maybe some on the guys on the fence will have their bikes recall done !!!!!


As far as I know ALL Honda bikes that have the linked system have the same system !!!!! Which is also one of the reasons bleeding the brakes is a
PITA !!!

[3Chief]

I hate the linked brakes on my VTX...Not being able to feather which brake I want is problematic at times...Haven't had issues with the B yet, however I'm fairly certain when I finally get it home that the same issues will arise.

[Chas]

19888

19887

The Swede :icon_cool:

Thank you Swede, I saved your info for future use. Great job!

[edgeman55]

Dammmmm that got your attention... I believe you are the first on this forum to actually have the problem show it's ugly head...maybe some on the guys on the fence will have their bikes recall done !!!!!


As far as I know ALL Honda bikes that have the linked system have the same system !!!!! Which is also one of the reasons bleeding the brakes is a
PITA !!!

Yea Steve it sure did get my attention.I was very lucky someone was not coming around in the other lane as I slide over accross it to a dirt section by the roadway.This was up in the mountains by Virginia City here in northern Nevada.Was able to nurse it down the hill with the brakes pulsating at times.AAA flatbed towed me to the Honda dealership where she sits waiting on parts.Funny thing was I was scheduled to bring it in next month for the recall.The dealer said I am the first F6B to have the brakes lock up but they have had 3 Goldwings over the past few years it has happened to.So all beware it can happen.