Am I out of line?

[MotoMike]

My first post here, sucks I dont have something more upbeat to start with, but Im very disappointed with what went down today at my dealer. The bike involved is a new 2014 Deluxe in Black.
A dealer in a neighboring state had the bike and it was marked down $4k as a closeout.
My dealer did an invoice trade so I could deal with them instead if going out of state. Went to dealer today to pick it up. As soon as I saw it I did a predelivery inspection and found multiple scuffs and a couple scratches in the finish. also there were a couple scratches and stains on the seat.
The scuffs look like it was washed/waxed with dirty rags by a one dimensional shop hack who detailed bikes as punishment. The scratches in the baggage look like someone dragged a boot across it as they mounted or dismounted. Not scuffs, but scratches that catch a fingernail when you drag it across them.
Needless to say I was a little unhappy and disappointed that these guys would present the bike to me in this condition for delivery. I told my sales guy I was leaving, that I was done.
I already traded in a bike that they sold and the proceeds to be used as part of the down payment. I also have a couple k invested in accessories for my dream machine.
The sales guy seemed more or less dismissive when I voiced my concerns and frustration at them actually presenting the bike in this condition for me to take delivery. its almost as if they said, "Its got issues but, effit, the guys getting a below msrp price so screw the stains and scratches, he'll buy it anyway."
GRRRR.
His defense was that this was a 2 year bike that was marked down, that I had assumed I was buying as a new machine. they absolutely were selling it to me as a new machine.
When I started to head for the door, he got his manager on the line who said they had a 'Wing Tech' who would be in on tuesday and assured me he could take care of the paint and seat damage.
I want this bike very badly, but Im pissed about the dealers attitude and would walk in a second if they didnt already have my money and my accesories and the sale price.
I told him I would let their tech guy 'do his magic' and if satisfied with the results, I wouldnt kill the deal. But Im not holding my breath.
I aboslutely will never do business with these guys again, but I want this bike so badly.
In the same token, I know if I accepted this bike as it is, I would be totally jaded with it, especially everytime I washed it and saw the less than showroom finish I brought home.
to say Im conflicted is an understatement.

[Steve 0080]

First of all 'welcome gang' to the board !!!


Secondly, the paint is BAD on these bikes from the factory, the scratches and stains that is another story...hope all works out well!

[zzh54]

Welcome to the board.

I would not take it off the showroom floor looking as you described, I would call the Honda Rep in on this deal. If it has never been registered , and they selling it as new, it should look new.

[taxfree4]

If the dealer has this attitude from the start I would look somewhere else. How could you trust him when it comes to more serious things. A lot of us have/had Harleys also and this is the attitude, generally, of HD dealers. If I were you I would look somewhere else, I traveled 1200 miles to get mine and found a very good dealer within 20 miles of me. I service my Harley in another state not to deal with the shitheads in the NYC area, I make a day out of it. Since your first break in is at 5000 miles there is not a lot of dealer visits but they should be someone you trust and feel good about. I would go on eBay punch in your zip and put in whatever amount of miles you feel comfortable traveling to get one. Also there are bikes on this forum if you can stand a very well kept bike with a couple of miles on it.

[MisterB]

If the paint on the 14 is as soft as the 13 then they might not have been as ham-handed as you imagine.
I've adopted a Wabi-sabi* philosophy the older I get, and the F6B paint fits right in. Mine is so scratched up after 6 months it's like a whole new finish. Imagine a stone washed blade.
The good news is you can't see much of it once you're rolling, and the last thing on your mind will be the paint when your smile muscles start aching.
This big 'ol gal is a blast and a half!!


*Wabi-sabi (侘寂 ?) represents Japanese aesthetics and a Japanese world view centered on the acceptance of transience and imperfection. The aesthetic is sometimes described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete".

[Greg O]

This happened to me last year when I bought my 2013, I was purchasing the bike 125 miles from home in Wisconsin. Multiple scuffs in the paint mostly in the bag lids. They ups'ed me 2 new lids and I took care of the rest of the scuffs myself. I did not want to drive all the way back after they detailed it. I figured the bike was in the crate for 2 years getting moved from here to there. It also had a very small paint scratch on the triple trees which I touched up with car touch up paint. I saved close to $4000 on this deal buying a left over, so I was a little tolerant on what I was receiving and I have 2 brand new saddle bag covers sitting in a box in my basement. With the bad paint these bikes come with I will probably repaint the bike in the next year or 2 anyhow.

[MotoMike]

I agree, I will not take delivery as is. I want the bike bad enough to give them the opportunity to make good on this deal. I understand from reading the sticky on paint issues from here that we have butter paint with no clear coat. My optimistic game plan was to bring home the little Darlin and liquid glass her azz.
This deal has been in the works for two months as I am an over the road contractor for United Van Lines and have been forging it mostly over digital comms. as far as the as the Japanese acceptance of imperfection goes, I respect The culture, but my attention to detail combined with low tolerance of fools interferes with my ability to accept less than what my opposites (dealer reps) would if placed in a similar predicament.
What insults me the most is that these twatts would even attempt to sail this past me after the machine has been with them as long as it has.

[Felloverboard]

I have a 2013 I bought brand new in sept 2014. It has many small and a few medium scratches that just won't wax out or go away even with all the suggestions that Honda will try to sell you with cleaning products. I put 5 coats of liquid glass on the bike as soon as I arrived home..... I saw very little difference. I have complaints into Honda right now insisiting on a repaint, hoping they will at least pay for half of a real paint job with 2--3 coats of clear. The OEM paint does have clearcoat, check out the paint codes. It is just a very fine thin coat that gives almost no protection..... Would I buy this bike again same as before.... YES. They have great deals on leftover 2013 & 2014 F6B's if you do a serious shop around. I went from Orlando FL to a place in mid Mississippi to buy mine because all the FL dealers who say we all buy for the same price and we will match... were 1500 to 2000 difference. Right now a 2013 is available for 13,300 plus 300 & u pay TTT when you get back home at one dealer. A 2014 for 13999 plus 300 plus TTT when you get home, and a 2015 for 15999 plus 300 and TTT when you get home. Those 3 are all standard models in one of the northeaster states.
These deals are good enough on a NEW GL1800 that after b2 years and no Honda help, you can still afford to get a repaint yourself for about $1000 if you tear down yourself. I am getting a Ruby Red like on the Ford F-150's and Mustangs, but still looking for Honda assistance. A class action suit would be tough to get. The best cleaning job I have found is to use a small homeowner pressure washer and dry with a yard blower. BUY the bike, you will love it scratches and all.

[53driver]

...but my attention to detail combined with low tolerance of fools interferes with my ability to accept less than what my opposites (dealer reps) would if placed in a similar predicament.
What insults me the most is that these twats would even attempt to sail this past me after the machine has been with them as long as it has.

Well spoken, good sir!

[wiggy]

I agree, I will not take delivery as is. I want the bike bad enough to give them the opportunity to make good on this deal. I understand from reading the sticky on paint issues from here that we have butter paint with no clear coat. My optimistic game plan was to bring home the little Darlin and liquid glass her azz.


I know Liquid Glass has good reviews by a lot of the members here, but imho, it doesn't do hardly anything to protect the paint. It gives it a good shine and is very easy to put on and take off. I'll give it that much. But when I got my brand new 2013 leftover, the first thing I did was start building up the coats of Liquid Glass. I must have had about 9 coats built up and let them bake in the sun but my bike has developed the fine scratches just like all the others are reporting with the Honda paint.

Good luck on getting the situation settled to your liking! You'll love the bike!

[SimonTemplar]

Soft paint...hard paint....ham handed.....kid gloves.....none of this has anything to do with anything. If they're selling you this bike as a new bike with zero to next-to-zero mileage...then regardless of model year, you are absolutely within your rights to demand a spotless finish (or at least as spotless as is customary for a bike fresh from the assembly line. The fact that they're taking a beating on the price in order to get it off the floor means nothing and don't let them tell you it does.)

Don't let them string you along on this. And DON'T SIGN ANYTHING. And, if you already have signed something...don't sign anything else. Not until AFTER they make good on this to your personal satisfaction. They do this every day....they KNOW you have the right to refuse it. Unless you have signed for delivery, they know you can walk at any moment. If they have sold your old bike...then they are on the hook to pay you what they sold it for. (minus a dealer fee, in some states.) Don't let them cow you into taking it if it doesn't suit you for any reason. (Btw...many states also have Buyers Remorse laws which will allow you to return for full refund any vehicle within a set number of days after delivery....regardless of reason. Damage not included...so watch yourself.)

Back in 1986, I purchased a new (black) Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (last Ford I will ever buy..but that's another story). The day I went to take delivery, the salesman met me at the front door as I walked in and whisked me off to the service bay and explained to me that there'd been an accident during the prep and now there was a scratch in the paint the full length of the right front fender. I never was able to get them to tell me what the hell had happened to my new car.

Anyway, they promised me that they would re-finish the fender and that it would be indistinguishable from new. I took their word for it and (whereas it was late in the year and I'd gotten a hell of a price on it...just like you did) I signed for delivery.

Well....they NEVER got the paint right. And they never got the finish right either. I took it back to them a half dozen times to do it over yet again. Finally, they got snotty with me and told me that they had done their best and were not even going to try anymore after this...and as I had legally taken delivery and had possessed it far longer than the State remorse law allowed for....they did not care whether I was happy about it or not. The car was mine and I was stuck with it....and don't come back asking to do it again. At which point they made an even worse attempt than any of the other tries had been and told me to get lost.

I have always regretted being so gullible as to buy their load of crap and accept the vehicle. I had that car from '86 until '01 and every day it reminded me of the bad decision I had made that day.

Don't let them snow you. You'll never forgive yourself. If they do ANYTHING but roll over and give you the world.....go talk to an attorney and have him go to the dealership with you. If he's a real shark...it'll probably cost you $500 or more for the guy to spend an afternoon with you. But....in the long run, it's cheap insurance and it'll send a message to the dealer that you're not going to be easily hoodwinked. And always be ready to call the whole thing off and demand your money if they just refuse to play ball.



best of luck! Let us know what happens.



....sT

[JackB]

I would want the bike to be perfect . It is new.
I have a black 2013 I tried liquid glass nice shine not small scratchs would show up.
A few weeks ago I applied Glare Micro Finish. It took 4 of their waxes and so far it's holding up no scratchs and great shine. Watch the video?
http://www.glare.com/products
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx328/extrurer/image_17.jpeg (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/extrurer/media/image_17.jpeg.html)
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx328/extrurer/image_26.jpeg (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/extrurer/media/image_26.jpeg.html)

[Steve 0080]

Looks good but will have to go get a loan to buy!!!

[Felloverboard]

Looks good but will have to go get a loan to buy!!!

I have a 2009 Honda Shadow I bought new as a leftover in 2011.... the rain washes it and the black tank always looks perfect with a deep shine. The F6B is a continual cleaning project if you ride it and not just look at it. I would still buy one at the great prices available. I already had heard of the paint problems when I bought mine, knowing it would be repainted a few years down the road. Yes everybody wants their new bike to be and stay perfect, mine will be exactly what I want when I get done with it and it was bought at an affordable price to be able to do it. There is a reason there is a $2500 bonus Bucks program on some of the leftovers.

[wjduke]

I have a 2009 Honda Shadow I bought new as a leftover in 2011.... the rain washes it and the black tank always looks perfect with a deep shine. The F6B is a continual cleaning project if you ride it and not just look at it. I would still buy one at the great prices available. I already had heard of the paint problems when I bought mine, knowing it would be repainted a few years down the road. Yes everybody wants their new bike to be and stay perfect, mine will be exactly what I want when I get done with it and it was bought at an affordable price to be able to do it. There is a reason there is a $2500 bonus Bucks program on some of the leftovers.

Not all F6B's are a cleaning project...Matte Silver. I hardly touch it except the bug detail.

[Felloverboard]

I would want the bike to be perfect . It is new.
I have a black 2013 I tried liquid glass nice shine not small scratchs would show up.
A few weeks ago I applied Glare Micro Finish. It took 4 of their waxes and so far it's holding up no scratchs and great shine. Watch the video?
http://www.glare.com/products
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx328/extrurer/image_17.jpeg (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/extrurer/media/image_17.jpeg.html)
http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx328/extrurer/image_26.jpeg (http://s768.photobucket.com/user/extrurer/media/image_26.jpeg.html)

All of the Glare products needed on a regular basis to put a bandaid on the paint job will cost about 10% of a new paint job.
PLUS your continual FREE labor.

[shooter]

Don't take the bike if the scratches can't be repaired to your satisfaction. You are buying a NEW BIKE. That title had not been issued to another owner. Its NEW. Make them make it right. And the paint on my 13 isn't bad. Some say it is and some say it isn't. Welcome.

[MotoMike]

Some very solid advice here. I will stick to my gut instinct and hold my ground on this. I will call the manager when they open.

[shooter]

And Mike coming from over 45 years of body and paint experience if you can feel that scratch the only way to repair it is to paint it. Glare or nothing else is gonna help it.

[Felloverboard]

There have been several bits of info from various forums where Honda has replaced one or two pieces on the bikes. Such as a trunk lid or other specific part. Getting another piece of the same product is still a time capsule for scrathes on the same type of paint. If you want the bike to look great 10 years down the road.... Re-paint is the only long term solution. I use my bike for many things such as long trips. I go to the NC mountains from FL often and took a 7500 mile trip from FL to CO & Ut last summer on the road for 5 weeks. This paint job will not hold up to that. My 2009 Honda Shadow black will.

[JackB]

All of the Glare products needed on a regular basis to put a bandaid on the paint job will cost about 10% of a new paint job.
PLUS your continual FREE labor.

So far the Glare is holding up I don't have any scratches on my bike after 16,000 miles.
I think some F6B's got better paint jobs than others. Mine had some small scratches and swirls but are now gone. The first 3 steps of Glare are supposed last 5 years and I don't mind waxing the bike once in a while.

[Retired Army]

My 2013 red came from the factory with a water based no clear coat paint. It would show up on wax applicators and polishing cloths. I finally had it painted and a healthy clear coat applied. My understanding is water based paint is the paint of the future. I was able to purchase a foam polisher that fit in my drill and makes the finish look like the pros did it. Keep us posted and how it worked out.

[Felloverboard]

My 2013 red came from the factory with a water based no clear coat paint. It would show up on wax applicators and polishing cloths. I finally had it painted and a healthy clear coat applied. My understanding is water based paint is the paint of the future. I was able to purchase a foam polisher that fit in my drill and makes the finish look like the pros did it. Keep us posted and how it worked out.

Honda does use water base paints... but all water base auto paints have to have clearcoat. It is a just a very thin coat that honda has put on. Water base is the paint of the future, not because it is better but becuase of EPA (Global Warming BS) that Obama pushes.. Auto manufacturers have been pushed to put it on their vehicles because of something from the GOOD stuff going into the ozone..... VOTE TRUMP and get a repaint.

[Dave Ritsema]

I don't think your out of line at all. As others have said, when you purchase something that is brand new, the expectation is that it will be in new condition. I will say however that if your relationship is starting out like this with a dealer, my common sense tells me it will get nothing but worse. If they don't have any initiative to make the sale go thru smoothly, how are they going to treat you later if other issues arrive.

I would run, not walk away from that place. Contrary to popular Internet lore, there are many excellent dealers out there, and mine is one of them.

[tinkerman]

If you possibly can....stick to your position. I was in a much tighter bind a couple of years a go when I picked up my 2013. Living on the east coast, bought the bike on the west coast. Made a down payment and went out a couple days early to take delivery before the missus showed up. Carter Motor Sports of Vancouver, Canada treated me like a piece of crap and they knew they had me in a pinch....bunch of low lifes. But I took the bike as was, had a great trip across the country with the missus and when I had the time I made their lives miserable through Mother Honda, the tax man and the better business bureau. I finally got out of them what I figured I had coming but to bad they just couldn't have sold me a bike fair and square.

Hope you work it out before you leave the shop.....I probably spent a week of my own time getting things squared away over the three months following the sale....it got done but it was a time burner.

tink

[opas ride]

It is an absolute shame that so many owners of the F6B have had paint issues with an otherwise top-notch bike..I traded a 2011 Victory Vision Tour with an outstanding paint job on my 6 as I really wanted this bike..I "bit the bullet" so to speak, and had mine custom painted with House of Kolors Brandywine Candy Clearcoat by the dealer before delivery as my wife did not like the 2013 color selections..Best move I made even though it was expensive...Bike looks great and no paint issues so far.....Get yours right before you take delivery as these bikes cost a lot of money and should come with a nice looking finish from the dealer...Ride safe

[Airborne06]

Personally, I would walk away from the deal. Demand the proceeds from your agreed upon trade in value immediately. Find another dealer. There are plenty of great deals out there if you do your due diligence.

[pilotguy299]

What he ^^^ said!

There are enough decent deals out there if you are looking for a NOS F6B.

[Felloverboard]

I have not read anything about someone blowing up a Honda dealership or burning one down so I am guessing that MotoMike must be in negotiations.....

[MotoMike]

This forum would be the first place I would start burning this dealer down.
The good news is I followed the wise advice offered here, stood my ground made it very clear to my sales guy I was walking and taking my business down the street.
Literally 3 minutes later the regional manager rings me up.
He offers to knock another $2k off the price or replace the parts and also eat the shop time swapping them. When I got down there today the regional manager introduced me to their 'Wing Honda Paint Finish Guru And All Around Good Dude' who was energetically buffing, waxing and detailing the bike. I immediately noted him using -TA DA-
Honda Glare Polish.
The manager laid another couple layers of textbook apologies iced with Profuse Bowing and Head Shaking, and promises of cat o' nine tails being worn to threads on the worthless carcasses of the guys that picked the bike up from the other dealer for failing to immediately convey the less than stellar condition of my new time machine. I half expected him to tell me he wasn't deserving of an honorable death.
While Im there with the manager the paint/detail tech finishes and wheels the machine out for inspection. I have to admit it looked a helluva lot better than when I first had it shown to me.
Got the stains in the seat looking better, almost completely gone.
I decided to opt for the price reduction, reasoning with myself that I could live with a couple scratches that couldn't be buffed out for a bike that I was now getting for a little over $9k less than sticker. I already have a new Clearview shield that I ordered a month ago, so the oem one with some micro scratches is coming off anyway.
Another way to make myself feel better was to remind myself that since the bike came with a couple scratches, I wouldn't be struck down with crippling grief when I found or inflicted the dreaded 'First Scratch' in my new love. That plus the knowledge that even if I had all new plastics, I still would be looking forward to the inevitable slow death of the butter shite black factory paint, albeit a wee bit later than today.
And the dealer is delivering the bike to my front door tomorrow or thursday.
So now, I am pacing back and forth, helmet and jacket sitting by the door, waiting for the sound of a truck and trailer pulling up outside..

[ReserveBum]

5 minutes after you are on her, this bs will be a faint memory.

[Vondawg]

++1
Welcome....glad to hear you made it work....this bike will make you smile again.

[JackB]

Sounds like they finally took care of you plus a $2000 savings.👍
Now go ride.

[53driver]

Well done by you. And I concur with your reasoning on the $2k reduction.

Happy riding!

Oh, and check the differential oil.....

[Felloverboard]

Now to get the Extended Warranty at Blue Ridge online for $549.... the new online price. so your bike will be covered for a total of 7 years. http://www.blueridgepowersports.com/ This is the OEM Honda Warranty. Used to be $499... just came up $50 since dec. Best price out there.

[shooter]

Well done by you. And I concur with your reasoning on the $2k reduction.

Happy riding!

Oh, and check the differential oil.....

Good reminder 53. That's usually SeaDogs line and I think the best advice ever given on this forum. CHECK THE DIFF OIL!!!!!!!!