Two Brothers Exhaust

[bgd8rd]

My dealer was telling me after they install the TBS exhaust they need to do a (tuneup) or whatever they call it and it costs $300. You know, to make sure it's running properly and I get the full benefit of the exhaust. Is he full of crap or do I need to get this done?

Thanks..

[F6BPDX]

My dealer was telling me after they install the TBS exhaust they need to do a (tuneup) or whatever they call it and it costs $300. You know, to make sure it's running properly and I get the full benefit of the exhaust. Is he full of crap or do I need to get this done?

Thanks..

He's full of crap. Lots of guys running aftermarket exhausts after just bolting them up in their driveway.

[bgd8rd]

Thank you good sir, I appreciate it!

[opas ride]

Running Cobra 6-2-6's since day one of purchase from dealer and bike runs great...As said earlier, your dealer or whoever told you that, is full of "crap"..Bikes ECU will adjust just fine to new pipes... Ride safe

[Hornblower]

My dealer was telling me after they install the TBS exhaust they need to do a (tuneup) or whatever they call it and it costs $300. You know, to make sure it's running properly and I get the full benefit of the exhaust. Is he full of crap or do I need to get this done?

Thanks..

This is a good (bad) example of why many dealers are not trusted. That advice is absolutely bogus. If you search on here, there is a simple reset procedure to follow after making exhaust changes. You do it yourself and it's free! Actually, this is possibly more appropriate after installing Torq Loopz but I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to go through it after installing slip-ons like TBR's.

[TailGunner]

BigLry can correct me but I don't think the ECU can adjust much more than for elevation correction. Now while getting your system remapped or adjusted will improve your bike, for only changing pipes it is not absolutely necessary. If you want to do it, do it after you do all the changes you want to do to your bike. By the way 300.00, is that just for labor?

[YikesCops]

You can't do anything by resetting the ECM. The maps are static, and don't adapt or change after an ECM reset.

I have TBRs on my B, and they run just fine without any modifications or ECM reset. The dealer with either "stupid or liar," ask them which one. :shock:

[BIGLRY]

BigLry can correct me but I don't think the ECU can adjust much more than for elevation correction. Now while getting your system remapped or adjusted will improve your bike, for only changing pipes it is not absolutely necessary. If you want to do it, do it after you do all the changes you want to do to your bike. By the way 300.00, is that just for labor?Mostly true the ECU has a set of parameters that can't be changed by doing a reset or disconnecting the battery. If doing a TPS replace the ECU reads what ever the closed throttle plate voltage as the 0% point and if you move the TPS you must disconnect the battery so the ECU will read the new TPS position at 0% throttle plate position this is about the only learning the ECU has. Now if you go and have a reflash done of the ECU all kinds of parameters can be changed, but still once the ECU is reflashed by an aftermarket shop it will only do what it has been reflashed to do you can't add of change anything other than a TPS % of throttle plate reading.

[BIGLRY]

You can't do anything by resetting the ECM. The maps are static, and don't adapt or change after an ECM reset.

I have TBRs on my B, and they run just fine without any modifications or ECM reset. The dealer with either "stupid or liar," ask them which one. :shock: TRUE

[Hornblower]

You can't do anything by resetting the ECM. The maps are static, and don't adapt or change after an ECM reset.

I have TBRs on my B, and they run just fine without any modifications or ECM reset. The dealer with either "stupid or liar," ask them which one. :shock:

About the time I think I actually understand something, then I realize I may not :icon_rolleyes:. I really thought the ECU had some "learning" ability so that, over time, it could make adjustments to base settings. I'm pretty sure the maker of Torq Loopz (TorqMaster Pipes) recommended an ECU reset after installing the Loopz. If a reset doesn't change anything, I wonder why he would have suggested that? Even previously, with my Triumph bikes, there was a procedure we called the 12-minute tune that was recommended after making exhaust changes. Due to experiences like these, I assumed that an ECU reset did actually make some changes...kind of like starting off with a fresh page :shrug:.

[BIGLRY]

About the time I think I actually understand something, then I realize I may not :icon_rolleyes:. I really thought the ECU had some "learning" ability so that, over time, it could make adjustments to base settings. I'm pretty sure the maker of Torq Loopz (TorqMaster Pipes) recommended an ECU reset after installing the Loopz. If a reset doesn't change anything, I wonder why he would have suggested that? Even previously, with my Triumph bikes, there was a procedure we called the 12-minute tune that was recommended after making exhaust changes. Due to experiences like these, I assumed that an ECU reset did actually make some changes...kind of like starting off with a fresh page :shrug:.
The only learning that the ECU can do is when the battery voltage is removed and then hooked up. the ECU then reads all the sensors and the ones that supply a base voltage like the TPS(Throttle Position Sensor). This base voltage is converted to be read as a % of throttle plate position, it is then reset to 0% throttle plate position no matter what voltage it reads. This is why you disconnect the battery when changing out or adjusting a TPS.
Since the F6B has an o2 sensor (two of them) along with a BARO sensor the ECU will adjust within its preset parameters it don't learn anything only looks it up and adjust on the fly. One other note, when in WOT(Wide Open Throttle) the o2 sensors are out of the loop and not used in determining fuel injectors pules width or ign. timing.

What Honda uses is basically a n-Alpha type of fuel management system which Honda calls PGM-FI.
Throttle position and RPM are the two dominant input parameters to the engine's computer. This is where the n-alpha name derives from. 'Alpha' for the angle of the throttle body butterfly's and 'n' for RPM.

It's all in the programming. You can not take a stock motorcycle computer, build a super engine for it, and expect it to be a drag strip killer. Programming rules the land of fuel injection.
There are four styles of fuel injection programming that I know of:
1.Mass-Air-Flow
2.Speed-Density
3.Vain-Air-Flow
4. n-Alpha

Their Dominant Sensors are:
1.MAF Sensor
2.MAP Sensor
3.VAF Sensor
4.TPS Sensor

For Reference Sensors they use:
1.Temp
2.Temp+RPM
3.Temp+Barometric Pressure
4.RPM

Their Primary Uses are:
1.Mild performance engines. Engines with mild inlet airflow characteristics. Engines With high emissions and economy demands.

2.Low power docile engines, High performance engines with harsh inlet airflow characteristics, Engines that need boost sensing incorporated into program calculations

3.Low power docile engines,
Museum exhibits?

4.Race engines with poor vacuum characteristics.
Race engines where inlet airflow is unpredictable.
Engines that other EFI systems can't handle.

How it works:
1.Air mass vs engine temp in main table.
Knowing the Mass Air entering engine makes calculations more exact.

2.Manifold vacuum vs engine temp in main table. Can be somewhat stable if oxygen sensors are perfect

3.CFM vs engine RPM in table with many additional functions still not very accurate compared to todays technology.
Using CFM for calculations is more like guessing than math!

4.Throttle position vs engine RPM in table with no additional input allowing massive amounts of boost and nitrous to be considered by the user.

Highlights:
1.Can compensate for alterations to engine and properly meter fuel.
Can compensate for aging engines with diminished performance.
Does not rely upon other sensors to make general fuel ratio calculations.

2.No inlet sensor restriction. Calculations required by boosted applications can be made.

3.Part of EFI history?

4.Quickest reaction to throttle change
Works on race engines with hostile airflow characteristics

Down Faults:
1.MAF sensor can impede maximum inlet airflow
Pulsating inlet airflow characteristics trick MAF sensor
Program calculations required by boosted applications will not be sensed
Does not react to throttle change as quickly as Speed Density or Alpha-N.

2.Can not compensate for changes to engine. Aged engine loosing efficiency over time is not sensed nor compensated for in calibration. Oxygen sensors can fix fuel rations in closed loop, but not ideal to rely upon them. Does not react to throttle change as quickly as n-Alpha

3.Sensor is a large restriction to inlet airflow.
No tolerance for unstable inlet airflow
Technology using CFM sensor is outdated
Oxygen sensors can fix fuel rations in closed loop, but not ideal to rely upon them

4.User must take complete responsibility for all program calculations.
NO environmental changes used in program calculations.

[53driver]

Thanks BigLry - now I gets to learn stuff!

[Jimmytee]

Yeah , that was cool BIGLRY :icon_wink: