Had to lock 'em up for the first time today

[VStarRider]

Just got it up to 60 mph, not completely paying attention to my peripheral vision, and, hello, a deer right in front of me.

Got on the front brake hard, hard enough, to lock the rear (had my foot on the pedal but I don't think I was on it hard enough to lock it, so I think it was the linked system that did it). It got squirrely under me for just a half-second, but I dropped a lot of mph pretty quickly.

I am pleased with my reaction time, how I modulated the brakes to maintain control, but I did catch myself staring at the deer rather than looking for an escape route...Meatloaf said two outta three ain't bad...but I still need to practice some evasive maneuvers.

Man, I wish these things had ABS....one less thing to think about in a panic situation.

[willtill]

Just got it up to 60 mph, not completely paying attention to my peripheral vision, and, hello, a deer right in front of me.

Got on the front brake hard, hard enough, to lock the rear (had my foot on the pedal but I don't think I was on it hard enough to lock it, so I think it was the linked system that did it). It got squirrely under me for just a half-second, but I dropped a lot of mph pretty quickly.

I am pleased with my reaction time, how I modulated the brakes to maintain control, but I did catch myself staring at the deer rather than looking for an escape route...Meatloaf said two outta three ain't bad...but I still need to practice some evasive maneuvers.

Man, I wish these things had ABS....one less thing to think about in a panic situation.

These are the scenarios that call for a change of clean underwear immediately afterwards. As far as trying to avoid a deer if it's directly in front of you; is to drive straight through them. Trying to maneuver around one is a almost completely unpredictable situation; based upon the deer's reaction/movements.

Glad that you came out on top of the event. :yes:

As far remembering evasive maneuvers.... let me quote one of Murphy's laws of combat operations:

16. No PLAN ever survives initial enemy contact.

[carpdm]

Happy it turned out well for you. ABS will be on my next bike.

[bob109]

Glad your OK and didn't score a Bambi:shock:

Believe it or not, having just had the "brake recall performed" this is a procedure I'll intentionally be trying over the next several days. Want to see how the bike act in a "panic stop"! This will be a "controlled test" on a vacant road with room to recover, need be:icon_wink:

[jm21ddd15]

[QUOTE=VStarRider;129474]

I am pleased with my reaction time, how I modulated the brakes to maintain control, but I did catch myself staring at the deer rather than looking for an escape route...Meatloaf said two outta three ain't bad...but I still need to practice some evasive maneuvers.

Good job avoiding the deer. I live in big deer country, too. I would say normally in a dangerous situation, yes look for an escape route. But when dealing with these big dumb critters, they seem to wait for you to make a move, then they head right towards your new direction. I feel you did OK by keeping your eyes on the deer. They are just too unpredictable. :yes:

[RTaz]

good job ... I popped a deer at 60mhp about 8 yrs ago the good thing is we (wife was on the back) (Valkyrie Interstate) hit the deer as it was jumping out of a ditch and I had just enough time to hit the front brakes , which caused the bike to dip enough for the deer butte to slide off my fairing...It wiggled my front end but I held it up. The deer squatted down on the road then got up and ran off! The wife (Devl) said you going to stop? I said hell no I'm going home!

[Steve 0080]

" Time to change.... "

[pitcherd]

Well Glad that you are OK!! But I would say by the sounds of it you were pressing a little with that right foot even though you didn't think you were. I have grabbed a lot of brake on this bike and I have yet to hear rubber not making traction. It could be the tire that you are running as well. I am running the Metzler and I am very happy with how sicky it is. Probably won't get the 10k out of it but it is a nice riding tire.

Either way i am glad You stayed upright!

[53driver]

Glad you are alright!

Threshold braking is an important skill to master and obviously varies with each bike and the load on each bike.

I too am a bit puzzled that the front brake could lock up the rear....
I'm going to have to do some testing as well.
I have tried to lock the rear up with the pedal and succeeded but I had to REALLY try.
I don't think I've ever locked the front but I know I've come really close trying to find that threshold braking point.

Again, glad you are good and yes, escape paths are good to have ALL the time, but with deer, the safest assumption was put out there by jm21: you get close and they are going to bolt one way or another, so just ride right at them, slowing if possible. No swerving and braking at the same time.

Cheers,
Steve

[BIGLRY]

No swerving and braking at the same time.


A lesson learned and never forgotten..notworthy.
https://dmv.ny.gov/sites/default/files/styles/panopoly_image_original/public/swervebrake.png?itok=TPBr-vZ3

[VStarRider]

Lots of good advice / reminders here...thanks for those.

In retrospect, I probably was on the pedal a little harder than I thought I was, causing the rear lockup. I am glad my reaction time was so quick and that I went for both brakes. During my accident in 2012, I panicked and jammed on the rear only. The accident probably could've been avoided if I had grabbed a handful of front brake. Either that, or I would have collided with the 83 year old cager at a 45 degree angle and tumbled over his hood. Maybe it is better that I got some road rash rather than the alternative. :duck:

[RickJ]

These are the scenarios that call for a change of clean underwear immediately afterwards. As far as trying to avoid a deer if it's directly in front of you; is to drive straight through them. Trying to maneuver around one is a almost completely unpredictable situation; based upon the deer's reaction/movements.

Glad that you came out on top of the event. :yes:

As far remembering evasive maneuvers.... let me quote one of Murphy's laws of combat operations:

16. No PLAN ever survives initial enemy contact.

As I'm sure you know, it wasn't Murphy!! Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

[Audiochris90]

Man i have yet to have a close call like that. I tiped my VTX over once in a grocery store parking lot, and that shook me up for a few days. I jumped off with out the kick stand down. I could only imagine the deer issue. Sound like you did it right , max brake in a straight line. Ive heard you never know if the deer will move so a dodge might have not been efective. I regularly practice the handel bar push i learned in bike school. The advanced class covered max braking in in turn. It was really a tough exercise. I was not too good at it on my vtx. The b is more nimble and avdvanced in the brakes. Some even think no abs is better in a panic stop. I really dont know ? Larry? Guide us?

[willtill]

As I'm sure you know, it wasn't Murphy!! Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

Very interesting. Who said Murphy wasn't a plagiarizer? :icon_lol:


Moltke's main thesis was that military strategy had to be understood as a system of options since only the beginning of a military operation was plannable. As a result, he considered the main task of military leaders to consist in the extensive preparation of all possible outcomes. His thesis can be summed up by two statements, one famous and one less so, translated into English as "No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength" (or "no plan survives contact with the enemy")[3] and "Strategy is a system of expedients".[3]

Excerpt above from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_von_Moltke_the_Elder

[53driver]

Man i have yet to have a close call like that. I tiped my VTX over once in a grocery store parking lot, and that shook me up for a few days. I jumped off with out the kick stand down. I could only imagine the deer issue. Sound like you did it right , max brake in a straight line. Ive heard you never know if the deer will move so a dodge might have not been efective. I regularly practice the handel bar push i learned in bike school. The advanced class covered max braking in in turn. It was really a tough exercise. I was not too good at it on my vtx. The b is more nimble and avdvanced in the brakes. Some even think no abs is better in a panic stop. I really dont know ? Larry? Guide us?

I'm not Larry and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night......but I am an MSF Instructor.

Deer - they will move out of sheer panic eventually - straight line braking right towards them is statistically your best option. If you stop before you reach them - great. If not, they will hopefully move. If you want to get precise, aim for their posterior region as that will be the first point of clearing - assuming they go in a generally forward motion. At night, the "deer frozen in the headlights" concept changes the game a bit. I brake towards their tail. Opinions will differ. Corollary: can you ever go into a turn too slowly? Especially at night and you don't know what is on the other side? Nope.

Braking while not exactly going straight: if your tires have "100 points" for traction, some get used by cornering, some get used by braking. The trick is not to exceed "100." Easy braking whilst in a turn (yes, both brakes - "trail braking" does NOT mean rear brake only) while then straightening the bike for the final stop is a technique to be rehearsed again and again. As your tires wear, brake pads wear, etc, all the mechanical performance parameters are constantly changing, so must your skill set adapt. It's not a science, i.e. I can't tell you that 5 psi from your two braking fingers is appropriate for your bike in a 25 degree angle turn to begin the slowdown sequence. It's a feel, it's the dance that you and your bike are doing and guess what? You have the lead - she can only respond. If you are not a good lead dancer, maybe joining the 1.5 mile weekend barhopping crowd and dressing like a pirate is your next logical step. Learning to dance is easy. Much easier to lead a motorcycle than an irritated female who figured out you can't find the downbeat, let alone who one doesn't like her toes stepped upon occasionally ....but I digress.

Don't practice until you get it right - practice until you can't get it wrong. For me that means constant practice.....

[RickJ]

I'm not Larry and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night......but I am an MSF Instructor.

Deer - they will move out of sheer panic eventually - straight line braking right towards them is statistically your best option. If you stop before you reach them - great. If not, they will hopefully move. If you want to get precise, aim for their posterior region as that will be the first point of clearing - assuming they go in a generally forward motion. At night, the "deer frozen in the headlights" concept changes the game a bit. I brake towards their tail. Opinions will differ. Corollary: can you ever go into a turn too slowly? Especially at night and you don't know what is on the other side? Nope.

Braking while not exactly going straight: if your tires have "100 points" for traction, some get used by cornering, some get used by braking. The trick is not to exceed "100." Easy braking whilst in a turn (yes, both brakes - "trail braking" does NOT mean rear brake only) while then straightening the bike for the final stop is a technique to be rehearsed again and again. As your tires wear, brake pads wear, etc, all the mechanical performance parameters are constantly changing, so must your skill set adapt. It's not a science, i.e. I can't tell you that 5 psi from your two braking fingers is appropriate for your bike in a 25 degree angle turn to begin the slowdown sequence. It's a feel, it's the dance that you and your bike are doing and guess what? You have the lead - she can only respond. If you are not a good lead dancer, maybe joining the 1.5 mile weekend barhopping crowd and dressing like a pirate is your next logical step. Learning to dance is easy. Much easier to lead a motorcycle than an irritated female who figured out you can't find the downbeat, let alone who one doesn't like her toes stepped upon occasionally ....but I digress.

Don't practice until you get it right - practice until you can't get it wrong. For me that means constant practice.....

Hey 53...Thanks for taking the time to post some of your knowledge gleaned ans rider and instructor. I have TRIED to find an advances MSF course here and am unable to get a response from anyone from MSF I have tried to contact. In the meantime, your posts re: safe riding techniques are appreciated. Now I have to get off my complacent intellectually self sufficient ass and PRACTICE.

[Ginfla]

Just got it up to 60 mph, not completely paying attention to my peripheral vision, and, hello, a deer right in front of me.

Got on the front brake hard, hard enough, to lock the rear (had my foot on the pedal but I don't think I was on it hard enough to lock it, so I think it was the linked system that did it). It got squirrely under me for just a half-second, but I dropped a lot of mph pretty quickly.

I am pleased with my reaction time, how I modulated the brakes to maintain control, but I did catch myself staring at the deer rather than looking for an escape route...Meatloaf said two outta three ain't bad...but I still need to practice some evasive maneuvers.

Man, I wish these things had ABS....one less thing to think about in a panic situation.

What really burns me is the f6b has been available in Canada with abs for a long time. Come on honda, get your act together...

[VStarRider]

What really burns me is the f6b has been available in Canada with abs for a long time. Come on honda, get your act together...

I believe I have read here that ABS is a requirement on bikes sold in Canada, Europe, Australia???

[VStarRider]

Hey 53...Thanks for taking the time to post some of your knowledge gleaned ans rider and instructor. I have TRIED to find an advances MSF course here and am unable to get a response from anyone from MSF I have tried to contact. In the meantime, your posts re: safe riding techniques are appreciated. Now I have to get off my complacent intellectually self sufficient ass and PRACTICE.

Rick, there is a company in Groton that offers MSF courses. Here is the link:

http://www.1stmsp.com

[53driver]

Hey 53...Thanks for taking the time to post some of your knowledge gleaned ans rider and instructor. I have TRIED to find an advances MSF course here and am unable to get a response from anyone from MSF I have tried to contact. In the meantime, your posts re: safe riding techniques are appreciated. Now I have to get off my complacent intellectually self sufficient ass and PRACTICE.

You are quite welcome!

Regarding an MSF course: if that link doesn't work out, PM me and we'll get this sorted in record time.
Cheers,
Steve

[RickJ]

Rick, there is a company in Groton that offers MSF courses. Here is the link:

http://www.1stmsp.com

Thanks..I'll call tomorrow. That doesn't look like the same one I contacted a while ago...that's a good thing! Is there a difference between MSP and MSF? I think I tried MSF through NYS....whatever...I'll llet you know how it works out.

[VStarRider]

Thanks..I'll call tomorrow. That doesn't look like the same one I contacted a while ago...that's a good thing! Is there a difference between MSP and MSF? I think I tried MSF through NYS....whatever...I'll llet you know how it works out.

Good question. I don't know! I see that they offer courses that substitute for the NYS motorcycle road test, so there must be something official about them.

[53driver]

Thanks..I'll call tomorrow. That doesn't look like the same one I contacted a while ago...that's a good thing! Is there a difference between MSP and MSF? I think I tried MSF through NYS....whatever...I'll llet you know how it works out.

MSF - Motorcycle Safety Foundation- non-profit org in California promoting motorcycle safety. Also originator of MOST motorcycling safety courses used throughout the lower 48. www.msf-usa.org
MSP - Motorcycle Safety Program - usually in conjunction with a state sponsored or monitored program, and usually teaching the MSF courses.

First MSP offers the MSF courses. BRC & BRC2.

If you already have your license and know how to ride a bike to some degree, take the BRC2 Skills Practice Course.

You'll have one day of great fun and learning!