New BMW Bagger

[Jhox]

https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0264634EN/the-new-bmw-k-1600-b?language=en


http://www.bmwblog.com/2016/10/10/bmw-k-1600-b-makes-world-premiere-today/


24033

[willtill]

THAT almost resembles an F6B. :shhh:

[Circle-5]

THAT almost resembles an F6B. :shhh:

It sure does, just as the F6B is being discontinued. I'm glad I got my F6B, because I doubt this K1600B will be nearly as affordable, especially now that BMW will have no competition from Honda. On the plus side, there's 160hp + ABS + reverse (BMW designers must have been reading this forum). On the minus side, there's that BMW aesthetic, with its front-end beak from a transformers movie. Looking at the K-1600B side-view, I definitely prefer the F6B's organic and integrated appearance.

2403424035

[stroguy]

I went to the Beemer dealer last week to look at the 1600. Gorgeous machine and such better electronics and user inputs. This is a nice bike, but the price tag will be higher than giraffe ass. Would like to see the pipes dropped a few inches and the bags made bigger for more luggage. Not gonna get much overnight gear in those two puny bags.

[unsub]

24036

This will definitely generate spin off interest in the Honda F6B, discontinued or otherwise. The other point is we have to wait and see how it holds up in real world usage. They could sh*t the bed on version 1.0

I do like the looks and hope it is successful.

Side note - I am puzzled that BMW has not yet tried to market a horizontally opposed 4 or 6 banger.

[BIGLRY]

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/BMW-K-1600-B-4.jpg

http://cdn.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/BMW-K-1600-B-9-750x500.jpg

Hummmm......I don't think I can make it fit me as comfortable as my F6B does...nor do I want to!

[F6B1911]

It's not quite the Concept 101.
No walnut trim.
No rich corinthian leather.
Think I'll stick with my F6B.


24039

[Ixol Phaane]

That's a very nice looking bike. I'd like to see it IRL. It'll be interesting to watch for the reviews and rider impressions... and also watch for the accessories that it generates. Once upon a time I considered its older cousin, the K1200LT... but that bike had ergos that I couldn't overcome. And the price was a bit much anyway. Now that I'm "more mature" :icon_wink: I could probably swing a deal on this machine... though not sure I'd want to. It would be fun to have another bike in the stable, but you'd be very hard pressed to pull me away from my F6B. There's a sh*t ton of miles left in mine! :icon_biggrin:

[broncsrule21]

Expensive but I'm sure it is a rocket ship though.

[Cool Hand Luke]

I'm glad I got my F6B, because I doubt this K1600B will be nearly as affordable, especially now that BMW will have no competition from Honda.

From Motorcycle.com:

Developed for the U.S. market, and available midway through 2017, BMW’s K1600B made its official debut today at the Peterson Museum in Los Angeles. The new bagger model is based on the Concept 101 Bagger we reported on in May 2015. Expect the base price to be around $20k, while a fully loaded unit will retail around $25k.

My opinion:

Price is as expected, just depends on what is considered a base model. I also doubt that BMW dealers will be willing to discount their bagger as much as Honda dealers discounted theirs. My 2013 F6B had list price of a buck less than 20 grand but they offered me a new one for $17,250 out the door price, which I took.

I do like it. I will definitely do a test ride when I can. I am also curious if there will be a new Wing released next year. If I like the new Wing and it has a removable trunk than I might be a buyer. In the meantime I will continue to enjoy and improve on my F6B. :yes:

[99m3]

Thanks for posting the information and I actually like the bike and of course since I have been an F6 fan from the beginning it doesn't surprise me.

[MisterB]

It sure does, just as the F6B is being discontinued.

Is that 100% verified?

[taxfree4]

I knew BMW was pissed off at Honda for the Africa Twin but to go this far can only be a German thing. To take aim at the "B" with such a relatively miniscule market doesn't compute.

[F6B1911]

I knew BMW was pissed off at Honda for the Africa Twin but to go this far can only be a German thing. To take aim at the "B" with such a relatively miniscule market doesn't compute.

That's an interesting observation, I thought they were trying to make up for the failure of the R1200C.

[DMAGOLDRDR]

Have you seen the Moto Guzzi Flying Fortress ????


http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-moto-guzzi-mgx-21-flying-fortress-first-ride-motorcycle-review

[Sonny]

Now that Moto Guzzi is interesting.

[wjduke]

None of this is making me want to switch bikes. I love what I ride.

[ff73148]

If Honda is considering discontinuing the F6B then they had better reconsider. BMW has just created a competitive marketplace for this style of bagger. It could only help the sale of F6B's. BMW obviously created this bike because they can foresee a market for it. I'm sure the BMW version will have all the bells and whistles but you are going to pay for it. Don't forget the cost of BMW service. I'll stick with my F6B but I thank BMW for creating a bigger market for this style of bike.

[taxfree4]

That's an interesting observation, I thought they were trying to make up for the failure of the R1200C.

They had the K1600GT, so they trimmed it, fully integrate the bags and put a "B" at the end. I guess it wasn't that much of a major design overhaul but it gives them more shelf space. Of course the target is Harley and fully loaded 25K that's a bullseye right at them.

[speedjunkie]

The Beemer is so so, I'd have to see one in person to decide. But, there's no dealers within 100 miles, so that helps with the decision. The Guz is interesting though! But again, no dealers here anymore.




Mike

[JGF6B]

The Beemer is pretty sharp but I'd have to know about cost of ownership. Not much maintenance on the F6B and I plan to do most of it myself.
I have zero interest in the Guzzi; I prefer to keep full frontal coverage, not just a batwing.

[Circle-5]

They had the K1600GT, so they trimmed it, fully integrate the bags and put a "B" at the end.

That is accurate. Cosmetic changes aside, the K1600GT and the K1600B are generally identical. Both share the same drivetrain with 3 riding modes, Dynamic Traction Control and electronic suspension adaptation. Both share the same options (new reverse for 2017, clutchless shifting, etc.) There's a good chance that performance and handling will be the same.

Interestingly, the K1600B is noticeably shorter than the F6B (by ~12inches), which means smaller bags and no luggage rack (unless it overhangs entirely). The F6B also has a longer wheelbase – long and low, like the old Cadillac Fleetwood.

The GT and the B are at the same scale in the attached photo.

24054

[Redlinez]

Should be a fast bike with all the electronics and I'm sure an awesome suspension. Too much for my blood though, but that would be a tough call if I had it to spend!

[Alys]

Seems like Honda has to take this segment seriously now and introduce new option soon.

[BIGLRY]

Have you seen the Moto Guzzi Flying Fortress ????


http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-moto-guzzi-mgx-21-flying-fortress-first-ride-motorcycle-review

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2016/2016-Moto-Guzzi-MGX21-Flying-Fortress3.jpg

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/motorcycles/2016/2016-Moto-Guzzi-MGX21-Flying-Fortress1.jpg

[unsub]

Something caught my eye.

The letter B is very prominent in the bike's visual design and marketing. I don't know why that bothers me so much, but it almost feels like it's a jab at our beloved B as in "we Germans can build a better bagger". Am I over thinking this?

[Circle-5]

Am I over thinking this?

No. That's exactly what BMW is doing. They're not trying to be subtle about it either.

[F6Dave]

That's a nice looking bike. I like it better than the original Concept 101 with the fake wood inserts. I also like it better than the K1600 GT or GTL.

It will be interesting to see how it sells, and how BMW markets it. Maybe Honda can learn something.

[ghost]

Won't know until I see it in person-- but I think the manufacturers of Helibars, Russell seats, and decent windshields should start thinking ahead. I don't think it would take much to make one of these the next dream bike for F6B owners who want a new bike.

[willtill]

Something caught my eye.

The letter B is very prominent in the bike's visual design and marketing. I don't know why that bothers me so much, but it almost feels like it's a jab at our beloved B as in "we Germans can build a better bagger". Am I over thinking this?

BMW bikes are expensive to repair. No thanks.

[STR8UP]

I owned a K1200GT second generation and loved everything about it except for the cost for maintenance and the sparce dealer network. At one of the scheduled service the bike needed a ball joint and the part had to be shipped from Germany, taking 3 days to arrive and it wasn't the right one...so I had to wait another 3 days for the right part to arrive. I considered the K1600GT before buying my F6B but I just couldn't imagine being stranded hours from the closest BMW dealer and having to wait days for parts to be delivered.That new BMW bagger looks great though.

[Greg O]

I really like the look and features of the BMW. I wonder what it weights.

[unsub]

I really like the look and features of the BMW. I wonder what it weights.

Somewhere between 680-750lbs +/- is my guess

[Kurare79]

I really like the look and features of the BMW. I wonder what it weights.

323kg what would be about 712lbs.

BMW build this Bagger mainly for the US-Market. In Germany or Europe we normally don't drive much of those big baggers (different streets). Here they are more into the big touring enduros like a BMW GS1200, a KTM 1290 or Honda Africa Twin (which has a big fan base).

[bob109]

Yet another new bike creation by BMW! Talk about "thinking out of the box":shock: This newest marvel sets a tone unseen in the "Two Wheel Industry":shhh:

24064


https://www.yahoo.com/tech/m/aa3da44e-0963-3d24-9f37-4ba95fdaeec2/bmw-concept-motorcycle-so.html

[willtill]

Yet another new bike creation by BMW! Talk about "thinking out of the box":shock: This newest marvel sets a tone unseen in the "Two Wheel Industry":shhh:

24064


https://www.yahoo.com/tech/m/aa3da44e-0963-3d24-9f37-4ba95fdaeec2/bmw-concept-motorcycle-so.html

That is cool :icon_cool:

[F6Dave]

Before I bought my F6B, I got to test ride a K1600GTL for about 50 miles. BMW of Denver is one of the few dealers I've known that actually encourages you to take a real test ride. Many years ago I tested an R100GS there, and when I asked the salesman where I should ride it, he said he didn't care, I should just make sure I had it back by closing time!

Every review I've read says the K1600 is an awesome motorcycle, and I have to agree. It is a VERY nice ride. The comfort and handling are great. The electric windshield gives you perfect protection in any weather. The engine feels a lot like the GL1800, silky smooth with a broad power band. That is, until you pass about 4,000 RPM, when the Beemer makes way more power. I didn't fiddle with the electronic gadgets much as I wanted to concentrate on riding. My only complaint was some noticeable slop in the driveline.

I seriously considered the BMW, but ended up buying the F6B. To me the Honda looked better, and fit me slightly better. The $10K price difference didn't hurt, either. But I think the biggest deal breaker was reliability and maintenance. I met a guy who had to have his water pump replaced multiple times. I read about problems with the complicated electronics. A friend bought one, and he discovered that just to change the oil, you need to remove a secondary drain plug INSIDE the oil pan!

I'm sure by now BMW has worked out the reliability bugs in the platform, so this new 1600 B might be on my list the next time I'm shopping. One thing is for sure: Harley's new Milwaukee 8 could give the F6B a good run, but it will only see those cool looking taillights on the new BMW.

[broncsrule21]

None of this is making me want to switch bikes. I love what I ride.

Switch? no way for me either. I'm just saying it will be fast. 160hp in the low 700lb range. Gotta be quick.

[Jimmytee]

One thing is for sure: Harley's new Milwaukee 8 could give the F6B a good run, but it will only see those cool looking taillights on the new BMW.

Maybe the CVO Milwaukee 8, but the torque/horsepower figures I've seen for the 107, I think we'll be alright on the B. :icon_cool:

[Brewdog]

The BMW K1600 "B" has impressive performance specs and I think it looks great too. There is no contest between K1600 and any CVO Harley. The K1600 will make ANY Harley look like its going backwards on the highway.

Sorry to hear Honda discontinued the F6B. I'm enjoying my F6B and plan to keep it. Sold my Harley a couple weeks ago. Not sorry at all. Actually, I was happy after seeing the latest HD public stock downgrade.

[Jimmytee]

The BMW K1600 "B" has impressive performance specs and I think it looks great too. There is no contest between K1600 and any CVO Harley. The K1600 will make ANY Harley look like its going backwards on the highway.

Sorry to hear Honda discontinued the F6B. I'm enjoying my F6B and plan to keep it. Sold my Harley a couple weeks ago. Not sorry at all. Actually, I was happy after seeing the latest HD public stock downgrade.

ANy of the 1600 Beemers will outshine the F6B in Horsepower, but IMHO they don't look as good. Plus just like someone else brought up, the F6B does such a good job of mellow cruising, touring when you want, or getting down in the corners. I also believe getting the custom sound system like I have on my F6B would be a lot more of a challenge on the Beemer.:icon_cool:

[jm21ddd15]

Corporate greed and profits, are the main reason why any company, produces new products. Just as slower sales than anticipated, is usually a death blow to a product, no matter how good the product is. The U.S. Bagger Market is huge, and most goes to HD. These other companies want a share of that market. I doubt they specifically targeted the F6, because they also know the F6 did not sell to expectations. Yes, it appears they took a good look at the F6 platform in the design of their new products, and may well have copied some styling. The 6 is a great machine, as we all know. I for one, am satisfied with my 6, and need not look for a replacement, unless I crash the bike. I'm hoping my 6 will last me for the remainder of my riding years.

[F6Dave]

Corporate greed and profits, are the main reason why any company, produces new products. Just as slower sales than anticipated, is usually a death blow to a product, no matter how good the product is. The U.S. Bagger Market is huge, and most goes to HD. These other companies want a share of that market. I doubt they specifically targeted the F6, because they also know the F6 did not sell to expectations. Yes, it appears they took a good look at the F6 platform in the design of their new products, and may well have copied some styling. The 6 is a great machine, as we all know. I for one, am satisfied with my 6, and need not look for a replacement, unless I crash the bike. I'm hoping my 6 will last me for the remainder of my riding years.

Thank goodness for corporate greed and profits. Without that, our only option might be motorcycles like the Ural! :icon_lol:

[F6Dave]

Maybe the CVO Milwaukee 8, but the torque/horsepower figures I've seen for the 107, I think we'll be alright on the B. :icon_cool:

Don't get me wrong. I tested a Rocket III, K1600, and F6B. I chose the Honda over all of them. It may not be the fastest, but it's close enough. It's also the best looking and most comfortable of the three IMO. And I'm sure it's the most reliable by far.

[pdxstriper]

Have you seen the Moto Guzzi Flying Fortress ????


http://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/2017-moto-guzzi-mgx-21-flying-fortress-first-ride-motorcycle-review

I stopped by the local Moto Guzzi dealer. Liked it until I sat on it. It is, without a doubt, the most top-heavy motorcycle I've ever sat on. Most be those big beautiful cylinder heads sitting up high. Or I've been spoiled by the amazingly low center of gravity on my F6B. So unless you are built like Rocky Balboa... and I'm certainly not.

[pdxstriper]

Thank goodness for corporate greed and profits. Without that, our only option might be motorcycles like the Ural! :icon_lol:

Well said.

[stroguy]

Thank goodness for corporate greed and profits. Without that, our only option might be motorcycles like the Ural! :icon_lol:

Yes sir, well said. I love corporate greed. If anyone is against it you have the ultimate nuclear option...........don't freakin buy it. Stay home and make eggs and salads and talk to Siberia on the HAM?

[mercator1]

I waited on Honda to upgrade their Electronics to justify me letting my 1200 RT go in favor of the F6B. I couldn't give up all of the better bells and whistles, but now I don't have to. I get the more workable form factor of the F6B with the better electronics of my BMW. Plus that K 1600 powerplant is a screamer.

[mercator1]

BMW just set another monthly sales record, and they are pouring money into R&D to try and meet the desires of their fastest growing market - the U.S. In person, that new Scrambler, based on the R9T, is one very cool looking bike, too.

[F6Dave]

BMW just set another monthly sales record, and they are pouring money into R&D to try and meet the desires of their fastest growing market - the U.S. In person, that new Scrambler, based on the R9T, is one very cool looking bike, too.

I have to agree, BMW (and others) are building some exciting bikes these days, so they must spending much more on R&D than Honda. I remember the days, starting with the original CB750, when Honda completely dominated the motorcycle world. Every year or so they introduced a machine that sent everyone else back to the drawing board. The GL1000, the CBX, the 650 Turbo, the Interceptor, the NR bikes with oval pistons, not to mention the GL1500, were on the front cover of every motorcycle magazine. Today Honda is more focused elsewhere, giving motorcycles little more attention than their lawnmowers.

To their credit, Honda, with many of their recent products, is trying to create new markets for motorcycles. We're an aging group. I read a few years ago that the average age of Sturgis attendees was 58! Those are terrible demographics unless you're selling trikes!

One thing Honda still has going for it is reliability. I own a BMW, know friends with BMWs, and they are far from trouble free. The stories are backed up with numbers, too. A few years ago someone posted a clip on motorcycle reliability. I think it was from Consumer Reports, showing how many bikes needed repairs. Honda, along with Yamaha and Suzuki, were at the top with 11-12%. Victory wasn't bad at 17%. Harley was 26%, and Triumph was 29%. Can-Am was the worst at 42%, but BMW wasn't much better with 40%.

[Broken Hand]

I owned a K1200GT second generation and loved everything about it except for the cost for maintenance and the sparce dealer network. At one of the scheduled service the bike needed a ball joint and the part had to be shipped from Germany, taking 3 days to arrive and it wasn't the right one...so I had to wait another 3 days for the right part to arrive. I considered the K1600GT before buying my F6B but I just couldn't imagine being stranded hours from the closest BMW dealer and having to wait days for parts to be delivered.That new BMW bagger looks great though.

Honda dealership with a seasoned mechanic 1 mile away. BMW 2+ hours away.
Honestly, this BMW bagger still looks like a sport tourer to me. No thanks.

[mercator1]

I have to agree, BMW (and others) are building some exciting bikes these days, so they must spending much more on R&D than Honda. I remember the days, starting with the original CB750, when Honda completely dominated the motorcycle world. Every year or so they introduced a machine that sent everyone else back to the drawing board. The GL1000, the CBX, the 650 Turbo, the Interceptor, the NR bikes with oval pistons, not to mention the GL1500, were on the front cover of every motorcycle magazine. Today Honda is more focused elsewhere, giving motorcycles little more attention than their lawnmowers.

To their credit, Honda, with many of their recent products, is trying to create new markets for motorcycles. We're an aging group. I read a few years ago that the average age of Sturgis attendees was 58! Those are terrible demographics unless you're selling trikes!

One thing Honda still has going for it is reliability. I own a BMW, know friends with BMWs, and they are far from trouble free. The stories are backed up with numbers, too. A few years ago someone posted a clip on motorcycle reliability. I think it was from Consumer Reports, showing how many bikes needed repairs. Honda, along with Yamaha and Suzuki, were at the top with 11-12%. Victory wasn't bad at 17%. Harley was 26%, and Triumph was 29%. Can-Am was the worst at 42%, but BMW wasn't much better with 40%.

Yes, my brother's CB750 was the most unbelievable thing I'd ever seen when he bought it (1973 I think). Lately though, they haven't exactly been innovators. Interested on your opinion on what new markets Honda is creating. Seems like they they are at least 5 years late to the ADV market with the Africa Twin and 1200X. The only thing I've thought they were really groundbreaking with, in recent times, was the Grom, and I'm too old and fat for one of those.

[unsub]

I waited on Honda to upgrade their Electronics to justify me letting my 1200 RT go in favor of the F6B. I couldn't give up all of the better bells and whistles, but now I don't have to. I get the more workable form factor of the F6B with the better electronics of my BMW. Plus that K 1600 powerplant is a screamer.

In my memory electronics have never been an issue with Honda. Do you mean as in factory accessory options?

[unsub]

Thank goodness for corporate greed and profits. Without that, our only option might be motorcycles like the Ural! :icon_lol:

Let's not forget the Dnepr. :icon_biggrin:

[stroguy]

24099

[Greg O]

For the money I paid for the F6B a little over a year ago was hands down a winner. I was in a different situation, I was coming off riding Harleys for nearly 20 years. I had a double fusion in my lower back 7 years ago and could not ride my Electra Glide for more than 1 hour at a time without it bothering my back. I gave up riding for 4 years and got the itch back. I didn't want to buy a $30,000 Harley and sell it for $25,000 the next year because of my back problems. I bought the F6B, I can ride this bike all day without back pain. The style of the F6B is great but it is lacking several creature comforts I like. 1. Great sounding stereo system.2. cruise control 3. Blue tooth 4. Navigation system. The BMW is a nice looking bike with all the features and safety features a bike should have. Money is not an issue for me, but reliability is. I am pretty confident the BMW will give me the ride I need for my back. I am not in the market for a new bike yet but I will look at the BMW when it comes out in the spring.

[unsub]

24099

That came with a unique disassembly feature that other manufactures have yet to introduce.

[F6Dave]

Yes, my brother's CB750 was the most unbelievable thing I'd ever seen when he bought it (1973 I think). Lately though, they haven't exactly been innovators. Interested on your opinion on what new markets Honda is creating. Seems like they they are at least 5 years late to the ADV market with the Africa Twin and 1200X. The only thing I've thought they were really groundbreaking with, in recent times, was the Grom, and I'm too old and fat for one of those.

I was thinking of Honda's attempts to expand the touring market to younger crowds, with bikes like the CTX1300 and CTX700. Even the F6B and new Valkyrie were aiming at a younger rider than the full sized Wing. From what I've read none of those have been sales successes, but at least Honda recognizes the problem. Most of the riders I see are getting kind of old. I've been to several national Valkyrie rallies and the youngest attendee trophy usually goes to a guy well over 30. The average age has to be near 60, just like at Sturgis.

I remember the CB750, too. I was in High School when it was introduced, and some of us went to the dealer to look at one. As I remember it sold for around $1400, which was a lot for a kid like me driving (and making payments on) a $500 used VW. But what an incredible machine. It was light years ahead of the competition. The entire British motorcycle disappeared within a few years, and that CB750 was a major factor.

But Honda today is a very different company. You could see the vision and innovation begin to fade away after Soichiro Honda's death in 1991. They still make very high quality products, but the showrooms are no longer full of class-leaders. Exciting cars like the S2000 are gone from the lineup. Formula One fans will remember how Honda engines completely dominated the sport in the 1980s and 90s. Today they struggle to make the top 10.

The GL1800 platform was introduced in 2000, and is still a competitive ride today. That shows how good their engineering is. But imagine how good it could be if they still had Mr. Honda's passion!

[Wing'n it]

Looks a lot like the Kawasaki ZZR-1200 I had a few years back, nice bike but killed my knees. Not really a big fan of BMW stuff and fixing them is crazy expensive, wont roost one in my coop.

[pilotguy299]

I was thinking of Honda's attempts to expand the touring market to younger crowds, with bikes like the CTX1300 and CTX700. Even the F6B and new Valkyrie were aiming at a younger rider than the full sized Wing. From what I've read none of those have been sales successes, but at least Honda recognizes the problem. Most of the riders I see are getting kind of old. I've been to several national Valkyrie rallies and the youngest attendee trophy usually goes to a guy well over 30. The average age has to be near 60, just like at Sturgis.

I remember the CB750, too. I was in High School when it was introduced, and some of us went to the dealer to look at one. As I remember it sold for around $1400, which was a lot for a kid like me driving (and making payments on) a $500 used VW. But what an incredible machine. It was light years ahead of the competition. The entire British motorcycle disappeared within a few years, and that CB750 was a major factor.

But Honda today is a very different company. You could see the vision and innovation begin to fade away after Soichiro Honda's death in 1991. They still make very high quality products, but the showrooms are no longer full of class-leaders. Exciting cars like the S2000 are gone from the lineup. Formula One fans will remember how Honda engines completely dominated the sport in the 1980s and 90s. Today they struggle to make the top 10.

The GL1800 platform was introduced in 2000, and is still a competitive ride today. That shows how good their engineering is. But imagine how good it could be if they still had Mr. Honda's passion!

I think that part of Honda's problem is with their pricing strategy. Everyone knows that a $21k bike today, will be $15-17k next year if it hasn't sold. They need to price the bikes more competitively to begin with.

A prime example is the DN-01. I thought it was actually a cool bike, but the pricing was insane. It too dropped much lower as NOS, but by then the marketing damage was done.

Color choices is another area where Honda has missed the boat. The Forza scooter is actually a very decent bike, but only available in Honda Red in the US. Other color choices might have made it more sellable in the US. Same with some of the other bikes.

The CTX1300 deluxe is also a great bike, but their only really decent color is the slate blue, which is actually really sharp. The stock windshield is lacking.

The platforms themselves are pretty bullet proof, but it's the extra nicieties and price are what contribute to volume sales.

[Wing'n it]

My local dealer has a used Rune that is way more than a new F6B,... go figure?

[motozeke]

I think that part of Honda's problem is with their pricing strategy. Everyone knows that a $21k bike today, will be $15-17k next year if it hasn't sold. They need to price the bikes more competitively to begin with.

A prime example is the DN-01. I thought it was actually a cool bike, but the pricing was insane. It too dropped much lower as NOS, but by then the marketing damage was done.

Color choices is another area where Honda has missed the boat. The Forza scooter is actually a very decent bike, but only available in Honda Red in the US. Other color choices might have made it more sellable in the US. Same with some of the other bikes.

The CTX1300 deluxe is also a great bike, but their only really decent color is the slate blue, which is actually really sharp. The stock windshield is lacking.

The platforms themselves are pretty bullet proof, but it's the extra nicieties and price are what contribute to volume sales.

Honda is probably the quirkiest of the major manufacturers, in that they take a lot of big risks in some areas (DN-01, Valkyrie, CTX, DTC transmissions) while being unaccountably conservative in other areas (looooooooong refresh cycles, for instance, and slow to include traction control and ABS on many models). But I give them credit for innovation. There are bikes that Honda makes, and technology that they employ, that is unlike any other manufacturer.

[NAHD]

Drove a K1200LT two seasons for about 24K. Never could ride it long with out back, shoulder, and crotch discomfort. Even with 1300.00 worth of Russel Day Long. Had a low speed wobble I could never figure out and cure. Couldn't let go of the handle bars for 3 seconds at any speed. Extremely complicated piece of machinery moderately difficult to maintain. It was very smooth and plenty fast with very little engine heat discomfort. Fantastic wind protection and stereo. Probably wouldn't buy another Beemer though. Resale is horrible Maybe I'll get a used one in five years with 14K miles for 6 grand. Also, if your not mechanically inclined you need to be fairly affluent to own a Beemer. It was an interesting learning experience and I did enjoy messing around with it in the garage.

[Old Ryder]

Honda is now a worldwide company. Growth is coming from India and Asian markets with large populations which translate to big markets. However they are not the people who will pay cash for a $20K F6B. That is a limited market to affluent countries where I am fortunate enough to reside--so they ride that train with a solid platform and proven record and don't fix what is not broken. The USA is one of only a few places on this planet where there is enough disposable income to make those purchases. My son in law rides and when he lived in Croatia, just watching a big Harley ride in from Germany was a big deal to him just a few years ago.

Honda is building and investing R&D where they can sell the most---and I can't blame them. If my B had issues, then I would be singing a different song.

I have friends who have owned BMW. They may look great, but I learned from their mistakes. We were on a tour a few years back. There were 3 of them and 2 of the 3 broke down the first day. I watched both of them kill their cell phone batteries trying to get a repair done on Thursday afternoon in western NC.

I don't think the BMW is coping the F6B---just the bagger style whether it is the F6B, Street Glide, Cross Country, or Chieftian.

I love my F6B and the crappy red paint that covers it---everybody else can have the pretty Beemers. :stirthepot: It does not matter to me if Honda does a refresh/update or not. I am good with what I got. :yes:

[Circle-5]

First public presentation of the BMW K1600B on the roof of the Petersen Automotive Museum, 10 October 2016, here in Los Angeles:

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[Circle-5]

The LED light source is fixed. The mirror redirects the beam when the bike tilts.

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[F6B1911]

24099

Just don't attempt to drive a Yugo over the Mackinac Bridge.

[opas ride]

First public presentation of the BMW K1600B on the roof of the Petersen Automotive Museum, 10 October 2016, here in Los Angeles:

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To me the rear tire/rim looks too small for the rest of the bike and the exhaust looks way too big!!!....But I will go look at the thing next spring when the weather is better...It would take a "Lot of Bike" to move me away from the F6B at this point....Ride safe

[speedjunkie]

Well the exhaust is certainly hideous and the bags look tiny.



Mike

[Blk6bgg6]

Beautiful bike.however if I just wanted looks only would prob have street glide,my opinion .However guys we have a proven platform motorcycle that's versatile as any bike I've ever owned as well reliable.By the way doesn't look like much lower leg wind deflection on the BMW.

[F6B1911]

To me the rear tire/rim looks too small for the rest of the bike and the exhaust looks way too big!!!....But I will go look at the thing next spring when the weather is better...It would take a "Lot of Bike" to move me away from the F6B at this point....Ride safe


BMW didn't think the K1600B through too well, they rushed to market.
BMW was always top notch for the Adventure market with the GS and top notch in the touring market with both the K and R tourers, the K1600B, on the other hand won't fare nearly as well.
There was huge support for the Concept 101, it's a beautiful bike, where the K1600B is a huge compromise. They should have kept it much closer to the Concept 101 style.
Put them next to each other, they don't even compare.

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[pilotguy299]

First public presentation of the BMW K1600B on the roof of the Petersen Automotive Museum, 10 October 2016, here in Los Angeles:

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not impressed with the pic of the bike.

[dkooris]

I've owned and ridden Beemers for a very long time. Still have my R1200RT. We had heard about this new bagger, but went for the F6B instead of waiting. For one thing, the service charges on a K bike are absolutely horrendous. THere's so much tech packed in there the whole bike has to be taken apart just to do fluid changes. On the old K1200LT, that meant $983 at the dealer. The bikes also have a CANBUS electronic system, no fuse box, so doing any work yourself is difficult. Many of the codes can only be read by a dealer, so your local multi brand shop is a no go. The nice thing is gobs of power, heated factory seats and grips, and great handling. But the cost is higher, BMW does not discount, and as I said before, the service charges will kill you, and that K engine, the flying brick, is expensive as hell if something goes wrong. If your ABS pump fails, you're out $2300 right there. I was happy as hell that my 2016 F6B doesn't have ABS. I am very, very happy with the F6B, and my wife finds the lower stance more to her liking and the seating more comfortable. The only thing we truly miss are the electronic adjustable windshield (putting on a Madstad), and an easily detachable rear topcase. Small sacrifices I can live with. I ride all year and this bike is perfect for me.

Geoff in CT

[Big TP]

Geoff, Just curious why you don't like ABS...

[unsub]

Thanks for posting a "live" picture Circle-5.

Hmm...not so sure now if I like it as much as I did when I saw the promotional materials. Looks like an awfully high COG, and not as proportioned end to end as I thought. Definitely need to see one in person..

I think BMW can fit a few more "B"' badges on there though.....:icon_biggrin:

[Travelor]

I've owned and ridden Beemers for a very long time. Still have my R1200RT. We had heard about this new bagger, but went for the F6B instead of waiting. For one thing, the service charges on a K bike are absolutely horrendous. THere's so much tech packed in there the whole bike has to be taken apart just to do fluid changes. On the old K1200LT, that meant $983 at the dealer. The bikes also have a CANBUS electronic system, no fuse box, so doing any work yourself is difficult. Many of the codes can only be read by a dealer, so your local multi brand shop is a no go. The nice thing is gobs of power, heated factory seats and grips, and great handling. But the cost is higher, BMW does not discount, and as I said before, the service charges will kill you, and that K engine, the flying brick, is expensive as hell if something goes wrong. If your ABS pump fails, you're out $2300 right there. I was happy as hell that my 2016 F6B doesn't have ABS. I am very, very happy with the F6B, and my wife finds the lower stance more to her liking and the seating more comfortable. The only thing we truly miss are the electronic adjustable windshield (putting on a Madstad), and an easily detachable rear topcase. Small sacrifices I can live with. I ride all year and this bike is perfect for me.

Geoff in CT

Just some thoughts -
The new K1600B is not the "flying brick" engine (I think you know that, but your post is not clear on it.).
The ABS brakes are no longer "servo" driven like the K1200. No servo pump to go bad. I was very disappointed that the F6B doesn't have ABS, it's the best thing that has happened to motorcycles in a long time.
Perhaps your BMW dealer doesn't discount, but every dealer I've dealt with has been fine with negotiating price.
While I love my F6b, I also love my K1200LT. It's the third one (2000, 2002, 2009) and I have over 135,000 miles on them. Typically get 14-16 thousand miles from the rear tire, and about 19,000 from the front. Maintenance has not been an issue. 2002 had a steering damper replaced under warranty, 2002 never needed anything but routine maintenance, and the 2009 has had 1 rear rotor replaced. Is the routine maintenance a bit more expensive than the F6B? Probably, but they're both expensive if you don't do it yourself. I think the biggest issue with the K1600 is the valve clearane inspection - that is complicated and will run some money. However, I never had any of the valve clearances on the 3 K1200's to be out of spec, and was told by 2 mechanics that if they were in spec at the 12,000 mile check they would probably always be. Just had the 2009 checked at 40,000 miles and they were still in spec.

So, I love my F6B, but will be looking at the K1600B when it's available. Maybe I need a 3rd bike................

[Circle-5]

I think we all agree that 2017 is the last model year for the F6B as we know it, possibly a short one if the next (hybrid?) Wing is introduced mid-year. If that is the case, there will be a very short overlap for a magazine to run a comparison test. While the BMW is likely to come out on top, if anything because of its 160hp and every feature anybody ever wanted, there are two aspects of this comparison that cannot be ruled out.

First, the Honda F6B represents what BMW used to be: from the design logic of a horizontally-opposed engine configuration to the conservative, long-lasting reliability of its components. Anyone who has owned a BMW Boxer twin knows what I'm talking about. While BMW boxers continue to equip most police fleets worldwide because of their simplicity and reliability, I can't imagine a state-of-the-art K-bike doing the same. Honda got it right with the GL1800.

Second, I paid $14,000 for my 2013 F6B this year – just over half of the projected cost of a K1600B and even less when factoring in a lifetime of service. For those of us who keep forgetting to win the lottery, there can be no comparison. And the F6B is a better-looking bike.

[Jimmytee]

Just being honest, I don't really like the looks of that Beemer. Just looks off. Doesn't flow. That was my turn off when I was looking at the other verions of the 1600. If they had been able to keep it closer to the concept bike, my opinion migh be different. Maybe it will look better in person.:shrug:

[dkooris]

Geoff, Just curious why you don't like ABS...

I don't dislike it entirely, but with practice and over time you can stop your bike faster without ABS. I've been riding for just under 50 years, and my 1998 R100RT was my first ABS bike. Trouble with the sensors, the brake switches, and things of that sort from time to time. Meanwhile, my Ducati Monster S4 didn't have ABS, I never had a lockup or a problem with braking. I understand why people like it, but I'd just as soon not have the tech headaches that can come with ABS. I also still have a BMW R1200RT that has ABS, and it's been in the shop several times for the sensors, thankfully not for the ABS pump itself. I love that my new F6B has linked brakes, but no ABS.

Geoff in CT

[bigdawg]

Love it. Getting one. I also love my F6B and other bikes and will plan on keeping them all and finding more room in the garage.

[DarkKnt]

Yup, nowhere near enough to the original concept. Exhaust looks goofy, bags look goofy and the front end doesn't do it either.... Disappointing as the concept looked cool. A bagger has to be long and low. I would sure like 160 HP though.

[willtill]

Well the exhaust is certainly hideous and the bags look tiny.



Mike


Agree. That whole bike is just put together wrong. Bavarian Motor Werks motorcycle Engineering and Design teams must've attended one too many Oktoberfests.... :icon_lol:

[ADV67]

I sat on the 1600 Bagger at the EICMA show in Milan. It definately has a quality finish and typically BMW styled. Seating position was OK but I would modify or change the stock seat, my knees were a bit cramped at 6.3". I liked the ergos and the instrument cluster. It has a couple of features which I miss on the F6B and it's lighter with more power. It's a more modern bike with way more electronics and gadgets.
But I am really happy with my F6B and will keep it, I see no need to change. I love the relaxed riding and cruising on the F6B. If i want more power and much less weight I take my 150hp KTM 1190R for hard ride. My wife also loves to ride with me on the F6 and we'll do a 2 week trip next summer. She told me: never sell that F6B! I guess that for once i'll listen to her. :icon_mrgreen:

Here are a few shots I took at the EICMA:

http://up.picr.de/27559688nk.jpg

http://up.picr.de/27559689yj.jpg

http://up.picr.de/27559690td.jpg

[Airborne06]

I really like this bike and will give it a hard look when it hits the showrooms next Spring. Besides the awesome power, I like the Bluetooth capability, electric reverse, electrically adjustable windshield, and some of the available accessories, such as the removable tour pack, Acrapovic exhaust, and the floorboards (as shown on the picture from the Milan show).

[stroguy]

The tour pack may help, but it looks like it will only be a day tripper. The bags look so small and the passenger seat is feeble and small. From the butt of the pilot forward it is gorgeous and the electronics will be sweet. But I bought the B for long trips with more luggage. I did 2 weeeks away at school in OKC with the B loaded. I don't see how I could have gotten the same gear on this Beemer.

[opas ride]

The pictures look nice of the bike and I hope to see it next Spring when it arrives here in the USA...Worth taking a "look-see" and hopefully a test ride..I will bet it is very fast, and should be, with more HP and lighter weight than the F6B..Wonder what the cost will be and other questions, ride, handling, etc. etc...Would not surprise me although if Honda does not do some nice up-grades to the F6B for future models as both MotoGuzzi and BMW now have competitive baggers!!!!....

[bigdawg]

The tour pack may help, but it looks like it will only be a day tripper. The bags look so small and the passenger seat is feeble and small. From the butt of the pilot forward it is gorgeous and the electronics will be sweet. But I bought the B for long trips with more luggage. I did 2 weeeks away at school in OKC with the B loaded. I don't see how I could have gotten the same gear on this Beemer.

I would wager the saddle bags hold as much as the F6B. They are reportedly deeper than my k1600 GT bags which seems to hold about the same as my F6B. Also, my k1600 GT holds my XL Shoei full face helmet and I can't fit it in my F6B. Just saying.

[stroguy]

I would wager the saddle bags hold as much as the F6B. They are reportedly deeper than my k1600 GT bags which seems to hold about the same as my F6B. Also, my k1600 GT holds my XL Shoei full face helmet and I can't fit it in my F6B. Just saying.

Really? Wow. I can't wait to see one.

[Darren]

I'd give the bike a go especially if Honda remove the F6B from their lineup

[bigdawg]

The only complaint I have about my k1600 GT is the wimpy speakers. The F6B speakers are far superior. However, the BMW has bluetooth, but I don't think it works very well. I prefer to listen through the bikes speakers.

[adventurous1]

If my 36" inseam (and my wallet) digs it, I may look to be trading. The B is a wickedly bad ass machine and both of my long distance trips this summer were exceptional....'however', the beamer does not have the gargantuan fairing of the B, which for long legged guys it can be troublesome.

[Bigcityd]

I did a quick online search for bagger style bikes. Harley is the king of the market place followed by our F6B's. I own both of these brands. There are two new players in this market, BMW and Moto GUZZI along with the other large Japanese bike manufacturers. The UK has the Triumph Rocket Touring. The other North American bike manufacturer, Victory also has their Cross Country. By my count that is 9 motorcycle manufacturers building a bagger. The market cannot be large enough to support this style of bike from so many builders. A friend who works for Honda told me that they were considering dropping our bike from their line up in 2017 due to slow sales. This did not happen and the 2017 is now listed for sale in Canada. Lets face it you can still find the odd new 2013 F6B out there. Is there about to be a boom in bagger sales that we don't know about?

[Bruce B]

Great looking bike and assuming it had good ergos for store bought knees, I'd probably like it a lot. But the price tag is up there and I'd have to deal with the local Beemer dealer for service. And I'm having a love affair with the F6B. I'm pushing the age of 74 and I've sometimes wondered if the day would come when I'd have to downsize to something a bit lighter than my F6B. However, it's so well balanced and has such a low center of gravity that I think I have a bike I can ride until I can no longer remember where to put the key. The new Beemer is probably going to be a fine bike but the F6B keeps the smile on my face.

[F6Dave]

I did a quick online search for bagger style bikes. Harley is the king of the market place followed by our F6B's. I own both of these brands. There are two new players in this market, BMW and Moto GUZZI along with the other large Japanese bike manufacturers. The UK has the Triumph Rocket Touring. The other North American bike manufacturer, Victory also has their Cross Country. By my count that is 9 motorcycle manufacturers building a bagger. The market cannot be large enough to support this style of bike from so many builders. A friend who works for Honda told me that they were considering dropping our bike from their line up in 2017 due to slow sales. This did not happen and the 2017 is now listed for sale in Canada. Lets face it you can still find the odd new 2013 F6B out there. Is there about to be a boom in bagger sales that we don't know about?

I agree, the bagger market seems kind of saturated. But so does the 'adventure bike' market, and manufacturers aren't abandoning that space. Some of those baggers, like the Guzzi and Rocket III Touring, are rare enough to make the F6B look like a hot seller!

It's great that we have such a wide selection to choose from. I keep worrying that with the advanced age of many buyers of these bikes, sales might start dropping and manufacturers will cut back on their product lines. Luckily that isn't happening.

[RWS0292]

The only complaint I have about my k1600 GT is the wimpy speakers. The F6B speakers are far superior. However, the BMW has bluetooth, but I don't think it works very well. I prefer to listen through the bikes speakers.

Agreed. My 2014 K1600GTL just doesn't have the sound qualities that I get from my F6B. But, I love the BMW technology versus the Sena bluetooth SM-10 I have strapped to the handlebar of my F6B. I plan to take a really hard look at the K1600B when it comes out.

[soberbiker]

I have had my share of Beemers and have had excellent results from performance, reliability and style. As long as I was living close to a BMW dealer or Beemer mechanic I had no problem with staying with the brand. Once those thing were no longer an option I immediately switched to the "6". Although I am a relative newcomer to the Honda brand and have been pleased so far. I like the idea of having a multitude of options for repair if necessary.

[Bigcityd]

I've ridden a Harley for the past 20 years and have only just switched to a "Metric" bike, the F6B,which ironically I bought at a BMW dealership. I've put over a 100,000 miles on my Harley(s) in those years and never had difficulty finding a Harley dealer when needed. One of my riding mates has had both Hondas and BMW's. He carries a travel book of other BMW riders that have tools and some experience with repairs in case of trouble while on tour due to the dirth of Motorad stores across North America. We've been fortunate to not ever need a BMW repair while touring other than tires. Same goes for the Honda. I live in a large city with more than one BMW Motorad store so the B would be an option for me. However there are many Honda Powersports stores across all of North America. This helps with confidence when planning a trip, you're not too worried about needing service on the road as you're like to come across one within a hundred miles or so.2480024801