Deadly accident(last time i ride with large group)

[rdeady]

Just left a veterans day bike run prematurely. Hundred of bikes traveling down parkway which they had closed down for us. Going maybe 75 . I'm near the back . Bikes slow down drastically and low and behold 3 bikes in an accident. One up the hill on the side still standing as i think the front wheel was stuck in the dirt. One poor fellow laying face down and he looked broken, I am not 100 percent but i am pretty sure he was gone. Those big packs are so dam dangerous !!!

[wjduke]

Just left a veterans day bike run prematurely. Hundred of bikes traveling down parkway which they had closed down for us. Going maybe 75 . I'm near the back . Bikes slow down drastically and low and behold 3 bikes in an accident. One up the hill on the side still standing as i think the front wheel was stuck in the dirt. One poor fellow laying face down and he looked broken, I am not 100 percent but i am pretty sure he was gone. Those big packs are so dam dangerous !!!
My first bike run ever was a large one like that. I hate them. the highway was blocked and everyone went bezerk. No one got hurt, but it wasn't pretty. I did my last one this past summer. Boston Wounded Vets ride. Never again. 7,000 bikes and we were bumper to bumper all the way. Once again, no one got hurt, but they're just not fun. I'd rather donate, then ride on my own.

[Big TP]

I agree. Dangerous and stressful especially when you don't know the persons riding around you or their skill level.

[zeus661]

I rarely ride with more than 2 other riders for that reason.

[cueman]

I have 4 good life long friends and that is our normal riding group. And that's the way I like it. :yes: cueman

[Kdarmy]

That is way I ride alone 99.9% of the time.

Most riders I watch can't even come to a stop without having to put both feet down. The access to my local Harley dealership for example (not picking on the Harley crowd...) has no left turn access to it, so if you're coming up to it in that direction you have to go to the light and do a u-turn onto a 2-lane road...Its pathetic how many are not able to do this, either without having to duck walk their bike thru it, or by having to pass the light entirely and make a turn into the plaza and come back to it....I have no desire to ride with these kind of riders....and to just join a large group, which I'm sure there are plenty of these type mixed in with it...No Thanks!

Keith

[seadog]

That is way I ride alone 99.9% of the time.

Most riders I watch can't even come to a stop without having to put both feet down. The access to my local Harley dealership for example (not picking on the Harley crowd...) has no left turn access to it, so if you're coming up to it in that direction you have to go to the light and do a u-turn onto a 2-lane road...Its pathetic how many are not able to do this, either without having to duck walk their bike thru it, or by having to pass the light entirely and make a turn into the plaza and come back to it....I have no desire to ride with these kind of riders....and to just join a large group, which I'm sure there are plenty of these type mixed in with it...No Thanks!

Keith

Small groups like 4 or 5 and ride staggered and no hot doggers in the group and you can have a pretty successful ride. But just putting 50 bikers together that have never ridden with each other is an accident waiting to happen. One exception to the large group rule is a club of bikers that has ridden together many times and know what's expected of them. I road with such a group when I had my M109R and the group was the Chi-town niners a club out of Chicago. They were precision at its finest, I would ride with them anywhere, we would get to a stop and two of them would break off and stop the cross traffic while the rest rolled thru and they did that everytime there was a stop. 45 bikes just kept rolling no matter the situation, stop light, stop signs and the group rolled on without a hitch. If a car pulled into the middle of the group the next guy ahead of the car would signal the guys behind until they got everyone back in line and the car eliminated from the goup. I was impressed with their methods and just safety conscious way of dealing with traffic and keeping the group safe.

[53driver]

That is way I ride alone 99.9% of the time.
Keith

While there are some groups that do ride well together, I too, am a loner. Maybe with one or two others.
As a RiderCoach - I quite unintentionally start picking apart peoples' habits while they ride and I find myself backing off further and further......

I want to ride with the local PGR Group and I'm learning their ways.
I'm not there yet though....
Cheers,
Steve

[Bill_C]

I did a couple large rallies with 450+ riders. What a mess. On one run the guy in front of me was a maniac and wound up crashing into a ravine. A few of us pulled over and found him and the bike covered in dirt and leaves. We got him back in the saddle and he took off like a nut case (didn't even thank us).

Another time I was in back of someone who rode in the center of the lane vs. the staggered side-by-side arrangement the entire run. Very frustrating. Its the 80/20 rule for me now: 80% solo & 20% with a riding partner I know well.

[Travelor]

Small groups like 4 or 5 and ride staggered and no hot doggers in the group and you can have a pretty successful ride. But just putting 50 bikers together that have never ridden with each other is an accident waiting to happen. One exception to the large group rule is a club of bikers that has ridden together many times and know what's expected of them. I road with such a group when I had my M109R and the group was the Chi-town niners a club out of Chicago. They were precision at its finest, I would ride with them anywhere, we would get to a stop and two of them would break off and stop the cross traffic while the rest rolled thru and they did that everytime there was a stop. 45 bikes just kept rolling no matter the situation, stop light, stop signs and the group rolled on without a hitch. If a car pulled into the middle of the group the next guy ahead of the car would signal the guys behind until they got everyone back in line and the car eliminated from the goup. I was impressed with their methods and just safety conscious way of dealing with traffic and keeping the group safe."

I know I'm going to catch hell for this, but what gives you (or this group you rode with) the right to violate traffic laws by stopping cross traffic so your group can roll through? That's an accident waiting to happen, and guess who would be liable. This is about the farthest thing from "safety consciousness" you can get when it comes to dealing with other traffic.

[53driver]

"

I know I'm going to catch hell for this, but what gives you (or this group you rode with) the right to violate traffic laws by stopping cross traffic so your group can roll through? That's an accident waiting to happen, and guess who would be liable. This is about the farthest thing from "safety consciousness" you can get when it comes to dealing with other traffic.

+1. I don't condone that behavior at all. Unless you've got LEOs doing the escorting on their official bikes and they are in uniform acting as LEOs, that IS a serious legal matter.

[seadog]

"

I know I'm going to catch hell for this, but what gives you (or this group you rode with) the right to violate traffic laws by stopping cross traffic so your group can roll through? That's an accident waiting to happen, and guess who would be liable. This is about the farthest thing from "safety consciousness" you can get when it comes to dealing with other traffic.

It's definitely against the law to block traffic and roll thru stop lights and stop signs but its also bad to have cagers in a line with 45 or 50 bikes. So the safety aspect is what they are trying to maintain. Because traffic stops pull the group apart and put cagers in the line with them that creates an unsafe condition for that many motorcycle. Your right its illegal, but they never get stopped or pulled over for those illegal acts and don't ask me why I don't have an answer. But this group is full of the nicest guys you could every meet, not a bad bone in there group.

[stroguy]

It's definitely against the law to block traffic and roll thru stop lights and stop signs but its also bad to have cagers in a line with 45 or 50 bikes. So the safety aspect is what they are trying to maintain. Because traffic stops pull the group apart and put cagers in the line with them that creates an unsafe condition for that many motorcycle. Your right its illegal, but they never get stopped or pulled over for those illegal acts and don't ask me why I don't have an answer. But this group is full of the nicest guys you could every meet, not a bad bone in there group.

Think about that for a second. Breaking a group of 45 motorcycles, which in itself is an unsafe entity, makes it unsafe. For who? Unsafe as you try to reassemble and run lights and push traffic out of the clan.

Not a bad bone, except for the arrogant ones that condone and initiate the self centered selfish unsafe law breaking. Screw the cagers, we'll do what the f we want.

[Wing'n it]

The last "large group" ride I was in they had two accidents in the damn parking lot before we ever left out. One was an older feller on a way too big for him Harley and he flopped it over during a slow turn. The other was a couple on a Harley and his wife on the back was a really big girl and I think the bike was a bit top heavy and they flopped over trying to park and she got hurt bad when the bike fell on her. The ride (about 75 miles) was trouble free but it was kinda scary a few times when they was blocking traffic at intersections. Not for me, sticking to smaller groups.
PS We had state troopers blocking traffic at about half of the intersections so maybe it's not against the law if it's an organized event? It was a hospital charity ride....

[seadog]

The last "large group" ride I was in they had two accidents in the damn parking lot before we ever left out. One was an older feller on a way too big for him Harley and he flopped it over during a slow turn. The other was a couple on a Harley and his wife on the back was a really big girl and I think the bike was a bit top heavy and they flopped over trying to park and she got hurt bad when the bike fell on her. The ride (about 75 miles) was trouble free but it was kinda scary a few times when they was blocking traffic at intersections. Not for me, sticking to smaller groups.
PS We had state troopers blocking traffic at about half of the intersections so maybe it's not against the law if it's an organized event? It was a hospital charity ride....

The group I rode with was doing the same thing without the police there and that is totally illegal.

[Bruce B]

I ride monthly with a group whose rides usually have 10-25 bikes. The rides are usually in the Sierra foothills and mountains with the occasional ride to the coast. Typical ride is 225-300 miles so considering gas stops, lunch, etc., it's a fairly full day. When the group is 12 or more, we split into 2 or three groups, depending on how many bikes we have. This makes for an easier ride for all and we aren't a pain in the butt to other traffic. The leader and sweep of each group are in radio contact which helps if the group gets split at a stop light or for other reasons. We ride quite briskly but aren't trying to be competitive about it. We've had some riders new to the group who turned out to be a hazard. Now, in order to ride with us, a few of the senior members take the newbie on a checkout ride. If he's not safe, it's a no go. This has made group members careful about who they invite so we've never actually had to turn down anyone following a check out ride. Safety is always stressed at the pre-ride briefing with standard safe group ride procedures being covered. A very high percentage of our riding is in very curvy and twisting mountain roads at a brisk pace so someone who can't handle that without drifting over the center line or having other problems would be weeded out before he could get hurt. Because of the nature of these rides, riding your own ride is also stressed. The group is not elitist, just safety conscious, and we have a blast.

[willtill]

I supposed to go on another ALR poker run this morning. I think I'm going to pass... this time.

[114th COBRA]

I rarely ride with more than 2 other riders for that reason.

+1

[rdeady]

Sorry guys I stand corrected. The fellow is alive with serious injuries. I had rode straight back to the dealers after the accident to bull crap with friend that works there and he had told me they were told one man had passed away. So from what I saw it figures he had. Thankfully I was mistaken.

[zeus661]

It's definitely against the law to block traffic and roll thru stop lights and stop signs but its also bad to have cagers in a line with 45 or 50 bikes. So the safety aspect is what they are trying to maintain. Because traffic stops pull the group apart and put cagers in the line with them that creates an unsafe condition for that many motorcycle. Your right its illegal, but they never get stopped or pulled over for those illegal acts and don't ask me why I don't have an answer. But this group is full of the nicest guys you could every meet, not a bad bone in there group.


Whats the difference between a group of bikers just wanting to get somewhere or a line of cars caught in construction? Say the same behavior happens but with high school kids just trying to get out of their parking lot after school?

You ok with that too?

[seadog]

Whats the difference between a group of bikers just wanting to get somewhere or a line of cars caught in construction? Say the same behavior happens but with high school kids just trying to get out of their parking lot after school?

You ok with that too?

Its not ok to break the laws set down anywhere and I don't condone their way of operation but it works for them so yes its illegal and no I don't think its right to break laws on the road. I have no clue why they don't get arrested. I road with them once and was just amazed what they got away with and had no trouble with the police. If I was a cop and saw that, they would all have tickets for illegally blocking traffic, running a stop sign and or stop light.

[zeus661]

Its not ok to break the laws set down anywhere and I don't condone their way of operation but it works for them so yes its illegal and no I don't think its right to break laws on the road. I have no clue why they don't get arrested. I road with them once and was just amazed what they got away with and had no trouble with the police. If I was a cop and saw that, they would all have tickets for illegally blocking traffic, running a stop sign and or stop light.

Hey Seadog, just so you know my comment was not directed toward you or anyone else here. Just a point I felt I needed to state in general. Hate to see when someone thinks they can justify breaking the law.

[broncsrule21]

Hey Seadog, just so you know my comment was not directed toward you or anyone else here. Just a point I felt I needed to state in general. Hate to see when someone thinks they can justify breaking the law.

This is why I have never been over 65mph. It is illegal:icon_lol:

I avoid groups rides as much as I can. I have the best time by alone, with the wife, or just one other bike. I like to ride at my own pace, pass when needed etc.

[VStarRider]

30,000 miles of riding...about 29,925 of it alone. The one time I rode with another person was my father, a 50 year riding vet. I like riding alone.

With snowmobiles, I almost never ride alone. There's usually 2-4 of us in a group. It's the opposite with the sleds - safer in groups.

[nvmyf6]

Good to hear there were not fatalities, and I hope for a full recovery.

I have ridden with large groups of riders, where blocking traffic did take place.

Here is a perspective on group riding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJlgQjUTXhY

[Steve 0080]

Way to fast for a group ride in my opinion... I am not a fan but if and when I ride in a large group, I am in the very front or very back... to many things can go wrong very fast !!!

[Travelor]

Good to hear there were not fatalities, and I hope for a full recovery.

I have ridden with large groups of riders, where blocking traffic did take place.

Here is a perspective on group riding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJlgQjUTXhY

So what is the difference between your "group" and just a large number of cars wanting to do the same thing? Every ramp and merging process you show happens everyday in heavy traffic areas and the "cagers" deal with it on an individual basis. I guarantee you that if a group of drivers decided that it was "safer" to block an intersection so they could all go through it against cross traffic and you were on a bike being blocked you would blow a gasket. You do not have the right to do any of this, unless Law Enforcement is providing the blocking service to you. And the funeral excuse is nothing more than self justification for the bad selfish behavior. It's bull@#$%T!!

[adventurous1]

+1. I don't condone that behavior at all. Unless you've got LEOs doing the escorting on their official bikes and they are in uniform acting as LEOs, that IS a serious legal matter.

When did 'Peace Officers" become LEO's? Most, if not all, "LEO" personnel know very little about the law.

[xltsport]

Have rode with a group of guys that are from the local honda yamaha shop was a circus.too fast in and out of traffic guys in the back doing stunts like you see in videos. It was almost dark and you couldn't even see the taillights of the ones riding wheelies. No organization riding down the wrong side of the road and what not. And this is the regular Thursday night ride sponsored by this shop. Will never ride with them again.

[53driver]

When did 'Peace Officers" become LEO's? Most, if not all, "LEO" personnel know very little about the law.

Well technically as a retired Officer of Marines, I'm a Peace Officer, but I ain't about to run unapproved escort duty.
Quite obviously from context, when I used the term LEO, I was referring to Police & Sheriff Motorcycle Officers pre-approved and assigned by their jurisdiction as Escort for whatever the event is.
Let's not get so wrapped in the dialectic semantics that we lose the point of the post.
Cheers,
Steve

[ReserveBum]

Well technically as a retired Officer of Marines, I'm a Peace Officer, but I ain't about to run unapproved escort duty.
Quite obviously from context, when I used the term LEO, I was referring to Police & Sheriff Motorcycle Officers pre-approved and assigned by their jurisdiction as Escort for whatever the event is.
Let's not get so wrapped in the dialectic semantics that we lose the point of the post.
Cheers,
Steve

And the Dems say we are the uneducated! I think I just got the name for next years fantasy baseball team or maybe name that hot new band.....The "Dialectic Semantics" . Thanks Steve for the Sunday morning reason for opening the dictionary:


Simple Definition of dialectic

philosophy : a method of examining and discussing opposing ideas in order to find the truth

Simple Definition of semantics

: the study of the meanings of words and phrases in language

: the meanings of words and phrases in a particular context

[53driver]

And the Dems say we are the uneducated!...

"Sic hoc legere, scis nimium eruditionis habes."

Cheers,
Steve

[Travelor]

Well technically as a retired Officer of Marines, I'm a Peace Officer, but I ain't about to run unapproved escort duty.
Quite obviously from context, when I used the term LEO, I was referring to Police & Sheriff Motorcycle Officers pre-approved and assigned by their jurisdiction as Escort for whatever the event is.
Let's not get so wrapped in the dialectic semantics that we lose the point of the post.
Cheers,
Steve

:yes:

[ReserveBum]

"Sic hoc legere, scis nimium eruditionis habes."

Cheers,
Steve

oh yeah, you want to play the latin card...."Gallia est omnes in divisa partres tres".

[53driver]

oh yeah, you want to play the latin card...."Gallia est omnes in divisa partres tres".

It's the only use 4 years of high school Latin gets...lol.

And yes, "Gaul is whole and divided into three." Julias Caesar

Don't make me break out the classical Greek....

[JMartin]

Wow... I'm hanging out with you guys more often!
And I thought I speaked pretty good already. :icon_biggrin:

[willtill]

Wow... I'm hanging out with you guys more often!
And I thought I speaked pretty good already. :icon_biggrin:

Google Translate is your friend. :icon_lol:

[53driver]

Wow... I'm hanging out with you guys more often!
And I thought I speaked pretty good already. :icon_biggrin:

Hint: try to use 3 syllable words as much as possible, but please eschew obfuscation.

[BIGLRY]

Hint: try to use 3 syllable words as much as possible, but please eschew obfuscation.Yes, espouse elucidation is a humorous fumblerule that should be for the benifit of making the statement an example of irony, and more precisely a heterological phrase.:icon_doh:

[bob109]

Yes, espouse elucidation is a humorous fumblerule that should be for the benifit of making the statement an example of irony, and more precisely a heterological phrase.:icon_doh:

Sort of like a "Hexogonalinvertedstelenoidcamsnapper":shock:

[BIGLRY]

Sort of like a "Hexogonalinvertedstelenoidcamsnapper":shock:
Yep, the Grelling–Nelson paradox is a semantic self-referential paradox concerning the applicability to itself of the word "heterological", meaning "inapplicable to itself." So I do believe you have caught the jest of it.:icon_lol:

[53driver]

Yep, the Grelling–Nelson paradox is a semantic self-referential paradox concerning the applicability to itself of the word "heterological", meaning "inapplicable to itself." So I do believe you have caught the jest of it.:icon_lol:

....as opposed to the gist....lol.

[BIGLRY]

....as opposed to the gist....lol.
:biggthumpup::icon_lol:

[Retired Army]

I was in a chat room with a retired English teacher and my monitor was full of red marks.