You could have your legislators make it a lot tougher for those morons to own guns, yet you could still be able to own your handguns.
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You really are naive. Have you ever seen the serious amount of restrictions already on the books that are ignored? Probably not. I know there is a criminal element here that don't do well with following rules and laws? Are there any Canadians that break the law on handguns?
This arguing has gone on long enough. We all got to get better at it. May the best man win.
http://www.wikihow.com/Always-Win-an-Argument
Naive about what?
We aren't allowed to own handguns. without onerous requirements, like joining a gun club, passing written and practical tests, thorough and arduous background checks, requiring a temporary police issued permit whenever the handgun will be transported from gun club to home, etc. They are restricted weapons.
If you use an illegally attained handgun to commit any crime in Canada, you will get extra incarceration above and beyond a typical sentence.
Very few Canadians own handguns, and fewer use them illegally, as they're just not available. The few that are used in crime have all been smuggled in from the USA.
Try crossing into Canada with an undeclared handgun.
No arguing.
I'm saying that tragedies like the one in this topic are preventable, they are not accidents, and your legislators don't have the balls to tighten up gun control in the US to prevent these horrific incidents. Let any Tom, Dick, or Harry own a handgun in the USA. It's your right. Just make it more inconvenient and difficult for any schmuck to just walk into a sporting goods store or flea market and buy a handgun.
I think this thread is just becoming a "increase my post count" contest.:stirthepot:
Bird can't be out-argued. Common sense and facts mean nothing to him. He can go on like this for months. Fortunately he doesn't live in our country. Therefore he is a non-factor. Inconsequential. He doesn't matter.
It seems I've pissed off the conservative right wing to the point where I'm a persona non grata of this forum.
You should just block me or don't respond to my posts.
The show can't go on without an audience.
Good thing all this back and forth drivel is posted in the "off topic" section.
Nah. You, your foreign opinions and your cocky attitude are welcome at my house for a meal and/or a beer any time. My table is open to all comers, and we have had some real doozies around it. If you find yourself headed to the Houston area just give me a day or two heads up. It's doubtful anyone here seriously spites you your personal history and your general take on things. Even more doubtful that you have really pissed anyone off. Everyone who signed up for this forum got to the point where we could sit at a keyboard and opine like this through hard work and sacrifice. More in common than not.
More difficult concepts for you...
There is no place in a home for a pool that isn't drained and empty of water.
There is no place in a home for a pool that isn't fenced and locked up.
There is no place in a home for rodent poison that isn't locked up and out of reach of children
There is no place in a home for household chemicals that aren't locked up and out of reach of children
There is no place in a home for a staircase that isn't blocked with a child gate
There is no place in a home for an unsupervised child
Sure it is, unless the three year old did it on purpose.
Yup... without proper supervision:
A toddler falling down the stairs is no accident. It's entirely foreseeable and preventable
A toddler falling out a window is no accident. It's entirely foreseeable and preventable
A toddler stepping in front of a moving car is no accident. It's entirely foreseeable and preventable
A toddler drinking a household chemical is no accident. It's entirely foreseeable and preventable
and yet- these things happen to chidren far more often.
I can do this all day..
So can I.
No accident. Look up the definition of accident. It's an unforeseen event.
Leaving a loaded handgun lying around with children present begs for a negligent homicide charge.
If there was a law federal demanding loaded firearms be secured in a home, we wouldn't be talking about this.
I repose the same question.
Would you feel any differently if it was your child negligently shot to death in a scenario beyond your control?
Would you demand firearms be secured in a home, or would you just shrug your shoulders, quote your constitutional right to bear arms, and plan a funeral?
Now we can't agree on what an accident is? :icon_rolleyes:
Jeez. Where's the unsubscribe button.
Sorry but your "LAW" argument holds no water.
There are LAWS on the books that dictate the fact that convicted Felons are not allowed to pocess a fire arm .... but many do
There are LAWS on the books that dictate the fact that convicted DWI criminals lose their driving privilege by having their license suspended or taken away .... but many continue to drive
There are LAWS on the books that dictate the fact that CANADIANS pay their share of Taxes .... but many drive south of the border to break the law and avoid their responsibility.
There are LAWS ............
Next time a convicted FELON stops you or your family and places a GUN in your face .... Make sure to WIP out the law book and point out the statute in the section where the LAW says that the individual with the gun pointed at your head is not allowed to have the gun that he is about to pull the trigger on and introduce lead into your LAW filled cranium. Curious to see if he gives a damn about another law.
Bird, how many laws do you break on a regular basis? Or skirt and get away with? :shrug:
I just broke 2 laws this evening, I was speeding most of the way home without wearing my seat belt :icon_redface: . The laws on the book didn't stop me from driving. Yup them laws sure scared me and prevented me from absolutely nothing :spank: just saying .... more laws is NOT the answer. People will do whatever they want wether it is legal or not. Why not propose that government place cameras in our homes to see if we are being good boys and girls?
I have never heard of this happening to anyone I know.
I have never heard of anyone I know being car jacked, robbed, or assaulted.
I have never had a house I owned broken into, and never had a car broken into. I also don't know of anyone personally who had their house broken into.
We don't worry about shit like that. Obviously some common sense is needed. One wouldn't be out on foot at 4 am wandering around in the run down areas of the city.
Almost all our crime is violence between street gangs or drug deal beefs.
It seems you are all so paranoid about the "what ifs". I'm sad to hear that the possibility of being a violent crime victim is such an omnipresent perceived threat.
You missed my point completely ....
You proposed placing ANOTHER Federal LAW on the books that would not necessarily change anything other then take away a little more of our freedoms. Your new LAW ..... I would interpret it as the government now has to hold our hand on how to store a gun.
We don't need any more LAWS. We need RESPONSIBILITY
Just the facts... draw your own conclusions:
http://38.media.tumblr.com/8f3c20e26...t9xfo2_500.gif
http://40.media.tumblr.com/b5c28f7d5...t9xfo1_500.jpg
I don't think I'll change any minds, but more facts:
Thanks to the NRA, no one has measured the true economic cost of gun violence... until now.
And if you only want the facts in video, here goes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nook1b8EyTs
You see, it isn't about one child being shot in the face, even though that is a shocking event. It is a bigger issue than that. Listen to these people affected by gun violence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvW5gD8YYUA
Elin, I have never been one for numbers because they are to easily slanted in whatever direction the writer wants...So we shoot 125K people a year? That 342 a day...thats about the same number of people killed in cars.... are these numbers correct? I am not discounting your research just a little surprised !
You are saying we kill 342 people per day in cars. (Just as an aside, MOST of those are accidental without malice aforehand--unlike the numbers of intentional shootings--just sayin'). But we don't KILL 125K people a year with guns. "Jennifer Longdon was one of at least 750,000 Americans injured by gunshots over the last decade, and she was lucky not to be one of the more than 320,000 killed." So divide 320,000 by ten (a decade) and you have 32,000 killer per year. However my point to the article is that the COSTS for each of these devastating effects to our society is HUGE. (And there were 75,000 INJURED, not killed--in addition to the 32G killed per year.
You and I and everyone else on this forum pays for those costs, for the most part. Courts, jail/prison time, medical expenses and other issues of a financial nature outlined in the article show that gun violence is a huge public fiscal responsiblity. If there were no guns (and therefore no gun violence) the inherent costs would decrease. I'm all for a society where I don't have to pay to incarcerate people for shooting other people.
And before you get on a tangent to say that they'll find another way to kill, I can assure you that it is a hell of a lot easier to avoid a knife fight than a .357.
I would rather be in a gun fight...if you are in a knife fight with a gunman and there is less than 20' between you ...the knife will win !
I was waiting on the first victim...you are it!!! Try it for your self ...put 20 or less between you, ( gun in holster ) and person with a stick.. before you bet the farm, try it once, a thousand times...the stick will win EVERY time !!! Don't ask me how I know ( it was a fruit knife with a 6" blade)
I shall defer to your experience, as most of my experience is not urban nor of civilian nature.
Many variables though as I would not have to abide by police protocol:
- What led up to this? Am I already "on guard" or is this guy just looking at my uniform, happens to have a stick (or she happens to have a fruit knife) and decides to play?
- If I see a guy with a stick approaching me, gun will not be in holster.
- If any guy is running at me inside 50', hand is already on gun, safety is off.
- Are we stationary, or am I moving, ducking, covering?
- Is he running straight at me?
Go to Defcon 5...same scenario ... 20" knife and a gun...knife wins every time !!!
P.S. Safety's are for sissys
Those crazy canucks.
https://youtu.be/WWBDGkwRvnY
The child in the cart shouldn't have been in that position. Irresponsible parent.
Curious to the polling, if that nut had run the cart over would a handgun have a POSITIVE effect on ending this situation.
Elin, you do realize that every death by gun is classified a homicide? When a police officer shoots a person and kills them that is a homicide. When you break into my home and I shoot you that is a homicide. Then conveniently the terminology becomes murder so the weak mind troll believes that there were 33,000 murders when that is not a fact. Of course there are zero shreds of paper to justify the monetary numbers spouted. The court costs are there for all crimes. Whether there were no homicides or not the costs are still there. That's some pretty weak pap in those videos. Anyone ever figure the costs on an accidental drowning.....the police costs to investigate that drowning, the costs of the courts to investigate the parents, and on and on? There is no positive outcome for someone owning their own backyard pool, but we still allow many times the number of accidental gun deaths to backyard or recreational accidental drownings.
There is nothing positive that comes from a police pursuit ...nothing... let them go and go get a doughnut !!!
Surprised of what ? Did anybody ever differentiated causes of these comparisons ? Car accidents in most cases comes as an effect of stupidity and luck of education . Killings by guns comes thru mental illnesses, will of revenge , sense of perpetrator's "superiority" over the victim or any target . Discharge of gun in any circumstances is much more harmful to the choosen subject and as a more effective tool , always guaranteeing mortal wound . It's deliberate act , not adequately compared to the car accidents , or swimming pool drownings .
Defending rightful privileges to possess fire arms is more symbolic , than practical empowerment against violators ; gives the only false sense of survival in hypothetically created situation . Usually the victim doesn't have chances to reach for his ( her ) gun . In those statistics , we can count only few examples , where such a law of "rights to defend yourself" gives the victim equal chances to withstand violator .
It can be only seen in western movies , where two cowboys approaching each other , will move gun faster for ultimate result . Yes - Hollywood contribute to the growing violence . Most movies are overfilled with brutality , which affects societies' mind , create paranoid sense of being afraid of anything. This process is killing true values and human properties of morality . Sure - Constitution also gives them "rights" to produce it . Everything can be stupid , but firstly must be "legal" . This vicious circle has been widened to unreal scenarios , which are colliding with our normal existence and destroys social behavior .
Reading opinions of those , who are un-welcoming differently presented voices , or statements , in which blind evaluations are providing some not so clever ( and usually unchecked ) comparisons to other countries , are plainly nationalistic . Their limited image of life and selected sense of given them rights , stimulate the only sense of power , because ... "This is America" and if somebody doesn't belong in here , must leave this Forum . This is also chauvinistic and definitely unproductive form of thinking . They are unable to improve or change their mind set . So - let them be . Nobody is taking "their rights' away .
I'm glad , that in late stage of our debate , finally women took the stand . Her more sensitive to the problem suggestions are adding reflections , which must count , as a cleverly provided facts , focusing our attention , which should not be ignored .