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Spoke to Dwight, sounded real good and ready to get back on his F6B.
He has been home for 2 days and has a few weeks of recovery ahead of him.
Dwight sends his Gratitude to everyone for keeping him in your thoughts, he will post in the next few days. Right now Doctors' orders are to take it very easy. He has 4 fractured Ribs, fractured wrists and the internal bleeding seems to have stopped.
Thanks for the update, Phantom.
Best wishes.
Yes, Phantom, thanks for staying on top of this. What is Dwight's forum ID so I can know how to send a PM? And Dwight, if you're tuned in, we're all pulling for you to have a speedy recovery.
Best wishes sent for a full recovery
I too want to wish Dwight the very best for a full recovery. That bike can be replaced, but you will always have friends here.
Miles
Dwight, we've all been praying for you a speedy recovery. Hope you heal well and are able to get back on another bike so we can see you at next years rally. I met a lot of great people at this rally and am glad to call you my friends!
So is anyone willing to tell us what happened? Did he wreck the F6B or another bike?
Unfortunately I happened by the crash scene on my way to the rally and never got the chance to meet Dwight. Best wishes to you for a complete recovery and I look forward to meeting you in the future.
He ran off the road on Hwy 28 near Fontana Lodge. F6 is totaled.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbyf6b
If I may be so blunt as to explain what happened to Dwight...without anyone chewing my butt for being frank about his accident...then here goes.
Before we started the ride that day, it was said that the big Blue Goldwing was going to go out front (that is Big Dawg), and I jumped at the chance and said I would ride second to the Big Dawg, as I interpreted that he would be riding faster, as he is a local rider, familiar with those roads. It was accepted that I would ride second. Then...Dwight spoke up to Phantom, and said he was a faster rider, so Phantom suggested that he ride with Big Dawg and me, following me. (that was a mistake to folloow Big Dawg and myself)
We got on the road, our little group of 3 bikes, and all the other bikes in a much larger group, following behind us by a mile or so. After about 15 or so miles, we 3 stopped at a corner mini-mart, parked our bikes, and aited for the larger group to catch up, so we would all know the right direction to take.
It was at this stop that Dwight talked with Big Dawg and myself about...how to corner beter, and the different riding styles between Big Dawg and myself. It appeared to Big Dawg and myself that Dwight was looking for "riding instructions". We both told Dwight to ride his OWN ride...do not attempt to keep up with Big Dawg and me, and to ride within his own limits. (that was the jest of the conversation) We both commented to one another, that if Dwight is asking us for "riding instructions, of how to take the bike through tight curves and either scrape the pegs, or avoid scraping the pegs, then he should NOT be following the two of us".
When we left from that corner mini-mart, our group of 3 had picked up another rider...one from the larger group, that was not happy being stuck in the middle of a bunch of unknown riders, with unknwn skills. This 4th rider concluded that it might be better to ride at the back of the lead pack, with riders assumed to be more skillful.
On this next secment of riding, Hwy 28 in NC, our group of 4 bikes came across some slower...much smaller...bikes, and we politely passed them, one at a time. Big Dawg got around them, and the car in front of them. Then I got around them, and the car in front of them. That is when we lost Dwight.
Rider # 4 in our group said that when Dwight went to pass the smaller bikes, he went too wide through a long sweeping curve, and at first low-sided the bike, over corrected, and then high-sided the bike, and he and the bike went off the road at a high speed, left side of the road. It weas a large sweeping RIGHT handed curve, and Dwight went off the LEFT side, bike went off the paved road, into soft dirt/grass, into a deep ditch, and toppled end over end, which is where Dwight flew off the bike, clipped a large tree with his body, and ended up twisted behind the tree, facing the opposite direction. Looking at the accident scene, Phantom and I determined that Dwight MUST have hit the tree, to inable his body to be on the other side of this large tree. He could not have gone THROUGH the tree.
The bike, was literally unside down, and facing backwards from whence it came. (yes, I know only Hornblower uses the word...whence, but I stole it from him) To recover the bike, a bunch of us had to roll the bike, like a dog rolling over on its' side, and roll the bike several times to get it up out of the ditch, and back up onto somewhat flat land.
The bike, a new F6B, was 100 % totaled out. Maybe the engine is salvageable, if someone wanted to buy the engine. I went thtrough all the saddlebags, pockets, and anything else that would hold personal belongings. Phantom had to assist in getting into the left front poscket, as the handlebars were bent so bad, they covered that pocket. We put 100% of his personal propertty into one large bag, which was put inside Phantoms' trailer, for safe keeping.
Munch and I performed triage' on Dwight, moved his body safely to a better rescue location, and awaited the EMT personnel to arrive.
THEY SAY IT HAPPENS IN THREES....
Dwight was immediately behind ME whern this accident happened.
Luther, riding the Suzuki Burgman 650 (Hornblower's brother) was in front of ME when his accident happened a couple hours later.
To finalize the set of 3...I was struck by lightning on my way home.
It was as if...someone up above said, "hey, I got those other two guys that were behind you, and in front of you, and then I had to search the surface of the Earth to see where you had run off to. Oh...there you are...ZAP"
Bottom line on Dwights' accident is that he was riding above his skill level, and riding too fast.
Luther was paying more attention to his bike dash guages, as his low fuel warning light was blinking at him, and he completely missed that we were entering a sharp curve, and he went off road into a barbed wire fence, without braking.
I...was arguing with myself about the Ohms law principle, and whether Volta was a better looking Italian than Phantom, and I lost the argument.
First of all, I hope Dwight, and Miles, have speedy and complete recoveries. Any type of motorcycle incident sucks. Been there, done that. Best wishes to both of you.
I spent about half of my 50 years of riding participating with groups, large and small, when I was riding with my local HOG chapter. During that time, I have seen, way too many times, a mismatch of rider skills. Matching skills of riders to group riding dynamics is cumbersome at best. I am glad you guys had the opportunity to meet and enjoy each others company. It is the group riding part of the trip that made me a bit concerned. I have seen the scenario that contributed to the above described accident too many times. One incident resulted in a fatality.
I now choose to ride almost exclusively by myself these days. That way, I can be as agressive or laidback as I please and I don't have to force myself to try to match my skills with other riders and either be riding too aggressively over my head or totally board or uncomfortable riding around others that I have no idea of there skill level.
Once again, best wishes for a complete recovery to Dwight and Miles.
Just want to make a couple of points here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miles
#1 .... I was never in favor of a "SPIRITED" ride nor would I have suggested that Dwight follow the two most experienced riders. If Dwight mentioned my name in the conversation then he obviously confused me for someone else, Dwight and I never discussed riding with the fast group. I attend to ride and enjoy the scenery with a few curves and hills. I do not attend these events to prove my skills or hold on for dear life as my butt cheeks pull the seat into my butt crack as I tackle a curve at a high rate of speed not knowing the area. Next year I ask that those wanting to go on a "Spirited" ride ... please do it the day before or the day after the Rally, I don't want our members or family of our members placed at risk of ANY injury.
#2 .... Rider #4 by MISTAKE jumped behind the 3 fast riders. When Steve yelled out "lets go" coincidently the fast riders took off and #4 thought that we were all following and jumped right behind Dwight. That was a mistake and as far as I know rider #4 never mentioned to me that he did not like our slower pace.
#3 .... We can not change what happened, I am GRATEFUL for everyones assistance and the fact that Dwight did not end up as a paraplegic. Next year the pace will be fun and relaxed and when we PULL INTO a gas station .... wether you need fuel or not EVERYONE needs to top off, we are not stopping at a gas station to take photos of the pumps or see if their toilets do or do not flush. We do not know where the next fuel stop may be.
#4 .... The lightning strike, you are a very lucky man, count your lucky stars. Most people would have been killed from the strike or crashed resulting in a fatality. You need a new avatar with some type of a cat, obviously you had 9 lives at one time, now you are down to 8. I hope that you recover with no permanent injuries. Next year please attach a 4' lightning rod to the back of your bike.
Let's keep in mind that EVERYONE'S safety is first, if you want to go fast..... ride fast on the way to our Rally or on the way home.
Steve and I have already started discussing next years event and it will be even better that this year, God Willing Dwight and Luther will be back and we double our attendance. It was a terrific event, everyone was respectful, courteous and fun to be with.... see you all in 2014.
Later, P6B
Yep. I have no desire for group riding. 2-3 bikes is plenty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas TC
Largest one I've been in was about 1500 bikes,,, Shut I-10 down for us and it was still a grade "A" fustercluck,,, Got stuck at the rear ,,, MAJOR 'slinky' effect,,, Probably 50 miles and saw at least 2 bikes that went down,,
Today, for me, it's usually just 2 bikes w/Wife riding hers behind me, and she's very cautious,,, Kinda helps me to slow down a bit when I look back and she's outta sight,,,
In general, I like to give it a good 'goose' every now and then, but by far and away, I ride to escape/unwind,,, never to 'conquer'.
Speedy recovery Dwight!!!!!!!!!!! :biggthumpup
I own a Hayabusa and have been "spirited" riding on most of all occasions, a lot of which took place on Palomar Mountain in socal (this ride kills professional riders). No matter what we did people talked past their grade and on one ride on Highland Valley Road we lost two due to it. Thank god both of them were okay (not dead but it did end one of their dreams of becoming a Navy SEAL). When we were off my turf I rode sweep -- familiar areas 3rd or 4th. Ego's run high especially on sport bikes, but I was never one to not ride "my" ride. In Vegas we had a guy on a zx14 that knew the lay of the land and bumped me out of sweep position as he was new to the 14. We got to our pre determined spot when I realized I hadn't seen him in my mirrors after an off camber sharp right downhill. As I was originally designated sweep I had no answers for the ride master as our missing rider had actually taken the tailgunner position. Within minutes ambulances and police cars screamed off into the other direction as our ride master and the pres of the club hosting us ripped off after them. He had gone down on that very turn and blown out one knee completely and cracked vertebrae in both his back and neck (I had chatted with the guy prior to the ride and he was a local HS wrestling coach about 5' 5" and about that wide-- I think anyone else would have been killed). Brand new 14 wadded like tissue paper. I implore each and every cyclist out there to play it conservatively and if you feel the need to move up in the pack, to do so in small increments. The F6b has impressed me in terms of its ability to "read my mind" and go where I want it to, but I have yet to push it, as I bought it to relax. I know this scenario will play out til the end of time, but if I reach one guy, then mission accomplished.
First of all, I wish a full and speedy recovery for our good friend Dwight.Quote:
Originally Posted by xzvs
The next thing that I want to say, is there is almost no man that wants to admit that he can't ride as good or better than the next guy. There is a huge difference between riding down a freeway and a twisty mountain road. it is a totally different skill set. Especially when an over weight, grey haired, old fart offers to lead a "spirited ride" on a Goldwing with his wife on the back. Before we left the Hotel, I explained to Miles and Dwight how we were going to ride and even offered them a few pointers as to how to ride these big bikes in the twisties.
At our first stop, I tried again offer some advice to Dwight on the way to ride in the mountains. ("Sparky" aka Miles said previously that Dwight asked for some pointers and that is simply not correct, you have to remember that Sparky is recovering from a lighting strike to the head). I once again explained to Dwight we don't ride fast on the straights but we do like to challenge the corners. I told him that if we pull a gap in the corners, that we would slow down on the straights and he would easily be able to catch up. I had noticed that he was struggling in the corners and thought a few words could possibly help him to be smoother. Sadly, he put his hand up and said, "I know how to ride" At that point, Sparky said, well then, "just ride your ride" Honestly, truthfully, we were not speeding. For heavens sake, I was on a fully loaded Wing with my lovely wife and mother of my children on the back! A good solo rider on and F6B with mountain riding skills should have easily been able to stay with us. I hate to say it but he made a poor judgement call going into that corner. From what the following riders told me, he tried to pass another motorcycle on the outside of a downhill right hand blind corner. Holy crap, that is completely insane. I have tormented over his decision and trying to figure out why anyone would attempt something like that? We all know the rest of the story.
"never ride faster than your guardian angel can fly"
Its always tough when you're lead and anyone behind you ends up eating asphalt, regardless of the situation. It does work on your mind for a while afterwards,,,
I came in to a corner too hot once,,, made it through, but checked my 6 only to see my wife and her bike sliding across/off the road,, :icon_frown:
Awful easy to get distracted, complacent, and/or get in a hurry. (Slow traffic drives me nuts,,,) I could use improvements in all those areas and more.
Be safe.
First of all, I wish a full and speedy recovery for our good friend Dwight.
The next thing that I want to say, is there is almost no man that wants to admit that he can't ride as good or better than the next guy. There is a huge difference between riding down a freeway and a twisty mountain road. it is a totally different skill set.
Well said, I also wish a speedy recovery.
Big Dawg, try not to beat yourself up over this. I know you mentioned that several have "lost it" trying to follow you (I believe you mentioned 12). The reality is that the admonition to "ride your own speed" was brought up several times and, in this particular case, you made a special attempt to advise this rider after noticing he was struggling a bit in the corners. I don't know what else you could have done. The fact is that when you lead a group on a ride such as this, sooner or later, something is bound to happen. As a previous pastor of mine reminded us, it's the "nature of human nature" that often leads to problems. Personally, I appreciate your efforts to lead what I would call a reasonable, spirited ride. The larger issue here is how our group should handle future rides. Should there be a fast group separate from the "regular" group? Inevitably, there will be a rider who wants to be associated with the fast group whether he is fast or not. Therein lies the problem.
Hornblower, I just hate it when folks get themselves into trouble. When the Dark Side Riders had their rally at the same Hotel this past July, they had several groups. The biggest complaint was the people that signed up for the spirited rides that had no concept as to how to ride in the mountains much less, ride at a decent pace.There are a lot of Dark Side riders that I have work to stay with, and I love riding with them. For example, Hwy 28, the road out of Franklin, is a 55 mph posted limit, even when it gets twisty. I can't maintain 55 in a lot of those corners and most cars don't. A lot of the corners have yellow curve signs with a recommended speed on them but it doesn't mean that you are breaking the law if you go faster than the recommended speed. It is still a 55 MPH zone. The section of 28 where Dwight crashed was a 45 post limit. At 35 in the corners, with the wife on the back, I was dragging pegs. I guess we were getting away from him and he wanted to catch up to us. Sadly, had he waited 4 more corners, we would have been sitting at the stop sign.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornblower
Over the years, especially the last 30, I have ridden Harleys, cruisers, sport bikes(I have owned 6 Hayabusa's) and sport touring bikes in the mountains a lot. Three summers in a row, I went out West, to find and ride the twistiest roads in the country. I have attended several road racing schools and I went road racing for a while. I took my oldest son all the way to the AMA pro road racing circuit. To put things into perspective, Even when I'm on a crotch rocket, following him, after a couple of corners, he is out of sight. I am smart enough to know that I can't keep up with him, so we just regroup at the stop signs. I routinely ride with others who are faster than I am but thankfully I have never crashed following them. I know and understand my limits.
I recently bought a house in Franklin, NC so that it would be easier for me to keep bikes up there to ride. I still have several other bikes that I like to ride up there too. I have a ZG 1400 Kawasaki Concours, The Goldwing, and a Ninja 1000 and Yes, there have been a lot of guys go down following me. I can't explain it and don't understand why. I'm from Savannah, Georgia where everything is flat and straight. Around home, there is no challenge for riding a bike. I don't care about riding fast(in a straight line) I figured out a long time a go that you are an easy target if you do. If I did want to haul ass, I would get out on the interstate and blow it out. I enjoy the challenge of riding the mountain roads and showing folks around. I always preach, "ride your own ride" I have had friends get mad with me, saying that I was trying to run off and leave them, even with my wife on the back. I try to explain that I am riding my ride and I guarantee that I am more comfortable at my pace than they are at theirs. I love teaching folks how to ride the corners, and have successfully taught a large group how to relax, challenge a corner, be smooth, not scare the crap out of themselves and have fun. Then there are those who (think they) know how to do it and those who won't listen.
Having said all that, if you ever want a coach to help you improve your corner skills, I will be glad to share any information with you. Be safe and remember, RIDE YOUR RIDE. If you are not comfortable keeping up with the guy in front of you, then don't kill yourself trying
It is Human nature to rise to the occasion, but having the internal ablity to recognise one's limitations is a bit harder to do during the excitment.
No one can predict, nor evaluate, a rider's ability on a first-time meeting for a group ride. Stuff like this happens at every large meet, not just this one. We hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
Big Dawg, don't beat yourself up over this.
Dwight, heal up first, then figure out the rest later.
Shit happens, and everyone's number comes up eventually. What we learn from it and how we go forward is what counts.
Big Dawg,
Lot's of people either don't understand what you are saying, or refuse to believe. Just because you can make a bike go down the interstate does not mean you can ride one! I agree with you and what some of the others are saying. We see this kind of thing weekly around here. Even highly skilled riders suffer accidents here because the conditions can change in a flash. From a moist area on the road due to a shady spot, or a damp painted line, not to mention the numerous critters, oil spots, trash. hazards are everywhere. Fact is we are adults, and have all chosen a hobby with risks. Good decisions or bad unfortunately accidents happen.
BigDawg,
As others have said, don't beat yourself up on this. Every rider is responsible for their own ride/actions .... period.
I admire and enjoy watching skilled riders all of the time, it is like watching art in motion or listening to a beautiful song. I personally don't have those skills and know my limitations.
:bowdown: THANK YOU for leading the Sunday ride, it was very nice and everyone enjoyed it. Could have done without the rain but we rode for the conditions and I appreciated that.
Leading rides is like herding cats, it is not easy. For next year, I propose group rides broken up into smaller groups of 6-8 bikes with all ending up at the same location. The scenery, the curves, the fun of it all, the camaraderie, checking out the mods, the ribbing of each other and great times is what I like about these events.
BidDawg, would love to see you and your lovely wife join us next year again. Doing a pre-ride before the event to determine routes is a good idea and I just have to figure out when.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkelley
Very true, that is exactly why I never ride at a 100% and even then there is no guarantee that I won't bust my ass. I am a student of "situational awareness" and even then, there are still things that will bite you. I have hit 2 dogs in the past 2 years, one at 55 mph that almost broke my right leg, and another one that ran across the interstate while I was running 75. The impact cut that one in half. By the grace of God, I managed to keep the bike upright on both of those occasions. It is the cars that scare the hell out of me. Guys, it is a proven fact that when you ride a motorcycle, it isn't a question of "if" you might fall down, it is a question of "when". I think that challenge is one of the reasons that we ride these damn things. Another reason is it is one of the things that I can still do well from my younger days and it keeps me feeling young. However, I am smart enough to know the risks and be able to accept the consequences if the worst happens. I never want to sit on the porch and wish that I have ridden the Beartooth, LoLo Pass, the Million Dollar Highway, Pacific Coast, CA 36, Oregon route 3, Cherohala, BRP from end to end, and dozens of other roads that are in the top 50 motorcycle roads in the USA. At least now, I can say that I had the opportunity to ride them. To quote a good friend of mine and fellow dark side rider, The 'Trialsman' "It is only an old man's bike if you ride it like one"
Godspeed on your recovery Dwight!
My two cents for what it is worth. IF, you are the leader (Ride Captian) on a group ride, YOU! are responsible for the group! I don't care if it's one, two, three or forty bikes and riders. It is part of YOUR job to keep the group together and to NOT ride off and leave them! If you want to ride fast, do it by yourself and not on group function days, events and rides! If you cannot restrain yourself, then you are not the one to lead a group ride. 'Ride Captain' ALWAYS has the groups best interest in mind when leading a group and explains the rules of the ride to the group before it leaves for the ride.
I do NOT ride in groups any more due to a couple reasons, one I just stated above. The second reason is groups are dangerous to ride in. Even tough you may know all the riders and their skill levels, CRAP happens. Most or maybe all of you heard about the dump truck driver running over a group of motorcycles here in Arizona. That was my group. I lost four friends that day. All good riders but made some mistakes and all of you have made them if you group ride, I know I have. Sometimes in a group ride you tend to 'FOLLOW' not really paying attention as you have ridden with this group for years and are comfortable with everyone and their skills that are around you. This group made some key mistakes. At the stop light the lead bikes were too close to the cars in front of them, that was a mistake, always leave yourself room to get out of the way. Second, the other bikes pulled up too close to the lead bikes. And third and most important and you have done it to, if you group ride allot and if you say you haven't you are probably not tell the truth. When the group pulls up next to each other at a light, you tend to maybe chat a bit with your buddy next to you or your passenger and NOT looking out for danger behind you! So, with all this happeneing, throw in a DUMP TRUCK coming up from behind and not going to stop!
I will get off my soapbox now, sorry, I am very passionate about group rides and how they tend to get riders in trouble and allot has to do with the so called 'Ride Captain'.
First, I wish Dwight a speedy recovery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernbiker
After reading this entire thread I have some thoughts. There is absolutely no blame that should be assigned to the "Ride Captain". The "Ride Captian" was leading the second group. The two VERY experienced riders made arraignments with the rest of the group to ride ahead and at an advanced pace. The third and fourth riders joined of their own volition. All four riders knew what they were going to be doing. At the first rest stop the third rider appeared to be in over his head based on the comments and questions. I was not there and only base this next comment on what I read. The third rider made a huge mistake trying to pass on a RH sweeping curve just to keep up with the other two. If I did not feel safe riding with the advanced group, I would have rolled back to the rest of the pack. I know my limits and always ride within them.
As for group rides....I have never been a fan. Group rides happen, its part of our MC fun and adventure. Slow and steady is the best way to roll on a group ride. Which is exactly what the 2nd group was doing and where Dwight should have been.
I sure love riding solo. No bickering over 'Captain' or Captain(s)',, or,,, anything else for that matter!!! LOL!!! :icon_biggrin:
Best wish's Dwight, I hope your feeling better..God bless you..:bowdown:
+100Quote:
Originally Posted by Westernbiker
First good post in this thread. Otherwise its all about finger pointing and ass covering.
Ride safe.
First of all I believe in the 3 R’s…
Respect others:
Respect yourself:
And be responsible for your own actions…
Yes, Road Captains have a role in leading a group, yes they should wait at a intersection when changing direction. No one else is responsible for YOUR right wrist. Period. We can all Monday morning quarter back this incident. The fact still remains that Dewight made a poor decision and NO ONE is responsible for that decision but himself!. Period. Now in this litigious society someone is always suing someone for something. That does not mean they are right or that justice was served. Not hardly.
Dewight came to me and stated, “ I like to ride fast”. I stated that Big Dawg and Miles would be going ahead of the group in what was called a “ spirited ride “. It was his decision and his choice that landed him in this circumstance. I personally find this post in poor taste as Dewight can not defend his actions. Having said that, I have seldom met someone who was truthful as far as their ability to do anything! YOU will never convince someone that their path in life is not correct. Everybody thinks they are leading their life as best it can be…the fact that you can see it as a train wreck means nothing to the person!
I can tell you that from my positioning in the very small pack of riders that was riding a "spirited" ride...well up ahead of the larger group that was taking the ride a little easier...Big Dawg did nothing wrong...nothing at all...in leading this small group. He gave correct turnsignal directions when needed, he gave verbal instructions when needed, and he told us to "ride our own ride", and not over-ride our abilities. Big Dawg did his utmost to make sure I was always in sight...in his mirrors, and that was an easy task, as I was close enough to read his VIN on his bike, most of the time. I was spending as much time watching my own mirrors to keep an eye on Dwight, as I was in watching what was in front of me, as I wanted to make sure I could at least see Dwights' headlights as I went around curves.
I ask all of you, politely, please do not place any blame at on on Big Dawg as the ride leader, as he did what he was supposed to do. I also say...politely, there is no one on this forum that has as much road time and mileage on bikes as I do, and I can say from a vast amount of experience...Big Dawg did what he was supposed to. When he arrived at the bottom of the hill, at a stop sign, and I pulled up next to him within 1.314159 seconds, we both waited for NO more than 10 seconds, and knew that if Dwight had not caught us within that 10 seconds, something was wrong. We both said..."something is wrong"...and after another 10 seconds, I said I am going back to look for him. There was NO hesitation for Big Dawg to join me in returning. We both lit up the road, to find the accident scene.
This was in fact...on Dwight. We all wish him a speedy recovery.
Please, let's move forward.
Well it appears I missed all the bad news. I suppose that isn't necessarily a bad thing. Speedy recovery to all those in need, and particularly Dwight in this thread.
You fellas be careful out there....... T