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http://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/motor...cid=spartandhp
a pretty good article and summation.
I also own an Indian Scout and was a pen stroke away from owning a big Victory before I met my Valkyrie. Still the Victory bikes were really moving in a sweet direction.
It failed due to a Corporate decision to make it fail.
My 2011 Victory Vision was the most comfortable bike I had EVER owned. Too bad the dealer service/repair and useless warranty did not materialize. Otherwise I most likely would still have it.
I am sure Polaris pissed off a lot of customers, for life.
My dream bike would be a Vision / F6B hybrid. Comfort of the Vision, engine, storage and reliability of the F6B and toss in some upgraded electronics and suspension (ala Traxxion).
I am looking forward to reading the article, thanks for sharing.
I was this close (*holding thumb and finger .5mm apart) to being a Vic CC Tour owner. I thought the company was on solid ground, with 20 years under their belt.
I would still have 3.5 years left on my Vic's factory extended warranty...
They were going after the H-D market, and that's a tough nut to crack, H-D already had their market locked in. If Polaris started with Indian instead of a new nameplate, it would be a different story.On the other hand, had Victory started with something other than the V-Twin, that may have changed the story a bit.
Interesting read. Looks like Polaris failed Victory more than Victory failed Polaris.
+1..I loved my 2011 Victory Vision, and as said above was the most comfortable touring/rode bike I ever owned..Smooth powerful, terrific wind control, and solid as a rock on the highway.....I personally had no service issues as it was never back to the dealer after I bought it...I kind of bought the F6B on a "fluke" and really glad now I did as the Vision became too heavy for me and I love the Honda.....I hope Polaris does not "screw-over" Indian owners as they apparently did to Victory riders......Perhaps our F6B's will become obsolete soon as rumor has it that Honda will drop the 6 in 2018.....Ride safeQuote:
Originally Posted by willtill
Because Polaris likes to pull the rug out from under everything they make that don't do exceedingly well. If Indian don't take off they will kill it as well and this is the primary reason to not purchase anything they make. Those Victory bikes are going to plummet in value and dealers are going to be pissed setting on old inventory that they will have to give away.
Honda may drop the "B" but you will be able to get parts for a long time to come. Talk to any owner of a Polaris ATV or JetSki and see what they think. (now Victory)
Rumors or not, even if the F6B does go away, Honda will still have a Gold Wing and we all know or can be pretty sure Honda ain't going anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by opas ride
^^Quote:
Originally Posted by F6B1911
I think I would agree that it's this simple. Re-inventing the "V" by the Japanese in the 70's with Yamaha's Virago only created more interest for the Harley brand that was ALREADY on life support then! That was HD's new lease on life.
Same thing here....history repeats itself.....I think it could be said that HD owes a debt of gratitude to Victory for moving customers to HD over the last 20 years. Life Support ver.2.0
How did the metric cruisers make it this far then? Star cruisers have been around as long as the Vics, same with the other brands. Is it because they were/are cheaper, and Vic tried to compete at the price point of H-D (or a tad below)? Is it because Honda, Yami, Suzook and Kawi are huge companies with essentially bottomless resources that can afford to carry a line that is not all that profitable? (Isn't Suzuki in the Japanese equivalent of bankruptcy right now, though?)
IF this is the case...that the metric cruisers were / are just more affordable...then what they did was genius. They know that cruiser riders often are entry level folks new to the sport, or veteran occasional riders, who love the looks and sound of an H-D but can't justify the bank required to own one, so they get a VStar 950 or a Boulevard or whatever, at half the cost instead.
On a side note, these are the worst bikes for a novice rider to be on...I speak from personal experience...the weight, extended rake, riding position, etc. make them poor handling machines in the hands of an inexperienced rider...just my opinion, of course.
So, what are we to learn here...that there is a limited upmarket for overpriced cruisers, and let's face it, the Vic was overpriced for what you got. When I looked at one in Oct 2015 and gave it the once and twice over, it was a beautiful bike to look at it, but it was only surface level. Lots of cheap feeling parts, switches, levers, instruments. It basically was an air-cooled twin (pretty cheap to make) surrounded by low-rate plastic and accessories. I walked out and went to the Honda dealer and purchased the F6B. What is Polaris thinking? My 2004 VStar, for all its faults, was built well with high quality parts. The MSRP on that Vic was $22,000 for God's sake. H-D gets away with the same thing because of their image and brand. Vic couldn't pull that off.
I will say that, for an aging market, it sure is attractive to the manufacturers because everyone has /is taking a stab at it. What drives them to the H-D market? Is it that there is so much money to be made by packaging up a Vtwin into a bunch of plastic and asking $25K for it? Is it the accessory market?
One last note: I rode an Indian Chieftain for about 100 miles last fall. Great bike, way better than the Vic CC Tour I test drove. Maybe they will make it in this market, as long as it lasts, and settle for a nice duopoly with H-D owning a majority share but leaving enough Indian buyers to keep the Polaris brass lighting their next cigar.
I have a 2005 Victory Vegas. It has 41000 trouble free miles on it. I had intentions of trading it in when the 2014 indians arrived. The dealers where arrogant and said victory's have no trade in value. They offered me $3800 for my Victory which had 32000 miles on it at that time. They also said if i wanted to add an Indian trunk it would cost an extra $3400 almost an even trade for my bike. Then i decided to look at an F6B. ended up keeping my victory along with a new F6B and $7000 in the bank. I have 20000 carefree miles on F6B and no regrets.
After owning two different Victory's I will say they were really nice bikes and mostly trouble free, at least to me....But the majority of Victory dealers were just plain "lousy" with incompetent service departments, lousy parts inventory, and just plain poorly run in my opinion...Polaris Industries is not very high on my list of good companies and I wouldn't be surprised to see Indian go down the tubes along with Victory!!!....Piss poor management at the top is a reason for lousy marketing, lousy dealers, and a poorly run outfit!!!...Upside is they are keeping their shareholders happy and that is all that counts today......Ride safe
Very well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by VStarRider
I wonder what will happen to another high priced (BUT VERY DIFFERENT) American made motorcycle: http://motusmotorcycles.com/
These new breed, made in Alabama, bikes are very techno savy and many more of the parts are actually made in the USA than Indian, Victory or HD. Had I not already spent my motorcycle change on my Indian and Honda's I probably would have given Motus the mortgage to my house.
Honestly, they will struggle and probably fail. New comers to the market will have a hard time getting going as most dedicated riders will not like the idea of hopping on a bike and headed across country without a reliable dealer network. Dealers around the country are not making the killing that they once were and I bet there is not a line of dealers willing to shell out floor plan money on a new brand of bike. Like Victory when they first got going all around me I knew of only one dealer and it was close to 100 miles away, today I knew of only three and one of them failed before Victory did as he tried to be a Victory only dealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltingf6b
I'm not sure if it's true or not (?) but I had a Indian / Victory dealer tell me that Victory only sold around 10,000 bikes a year. That seems unbelievable to me that they could even stay in business for 18 years with those kind of numbers, but...
Victory sales went in the "tank" around 2014, so I was told, and since then have not sold enough bikes to turn a profit for Polaris...Suppose Indian has anything to do with the demise of Victory????....Not hard to figure that one out....Ride safeQuote:
Originally Posted by No Handle Sam
As for your point about dealers not making a killing anymore, here is an example...my Yamaha snowmobile dealer, also a Suzuki and Yamaha motorcycle dealer, told me his markup in the 70s and 80s was about 20%...he had a lot to work with off MSRP. Now, his markup hovers around 8%, and that is only when there are no manufacturer incentives that the dealer has to absorb some of the cost of. For example, on a $500 cash back deal, the dealer has to foot $250 of that; or accessories are part of the promotion, the dealer has to pay for part of that, too, or sell at cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wing'n it
Strange. Seems as though I was seeing more and more Victorys on the road. Actual data will always trump perception.Quote:
Originally Posted by opas ride
WOW. Those are EXPENSIVE bikes. Hopefully they are set up as a "made to order" bike because they won't sell many. I wish them, and any American company, the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by tiltingf6b
How about an entry level cruiser with some up-models available that top out around $15k? I am thinking that could tap into the market that loves the H-D style but can't afford one.
The Victory/Indian dearer in Calf told me they sold 5 Indian's to 1 Victory. But the day they announced Victory has stopped making bikes they sold 5.
After reading all the replies here no one mentioned Indians flat track racing team for 2017. Indian is pulling out all the stops, commissioned a new 750cc V-Twin engine designed in Europe for this Grand National Dirt Track series and hired 3 factory riders including #1 number plate 2016 GNC champ Brian Smith, 2015 champ Mears, and former factory H.D. rider Brad Baker. They will call the team "The Indian Wrecking Crew" and already finished the 1st race of 2017 at Daytona 1st & 2nd and could have been a complete sweep if Baker had not crashed early in that race. This alone shows the commitment and IMHO brilliant planning to steal some of the Harley riders over into the Indian tent !! In addition Indian has 4-sale this complete racer turn-key operation for $49.995. It's my understanding several teams are aligning there self this season to campaign one. It will without a doubt be very interesting in the Harley ring ! To do this in this magnitude in less than 12 months is unheard of. To fully understand what an accomplishment it is Suzuki, Yamaha, and even Honda have not been able to do this to this complete domination in flat track racing over history.
Go to AMA racing to read more and even watch free that 2017 Daytona race.
After 4 days in Daytona, it is very clear why they dropped Victory. The Indian section was bigger than Harley and the accessories for Indian are off the charts. Using only Indian parts you can customize your bike to make it anyway you want---reduced reach-extended reach--10 different seats for the Scout--custom bars different bags, exhaust, Leather tank panels-fringe for everything, etc..... Just like Harley.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug44
NOW COMPARE THAT to my Cross Roads where Victory gave you ONE SINGLE CHOICE for a luggage rack and backrest for close to a GRAND for the two! Every Victory option for that bike and my Kingpin could fit in my refrigerator one week before payday! The difference in committment would be clear to Ray Charles.
Oh--they were talking up the race team all week, too.