Phantom Shifts

We have discussed two of the three issues that fill the GL1800 forums which are front end wobble and cold engine hesitation. None of us seem to have experienced the dreaded wobble but several seem to have issues with hesitation wth a cold engine. I have experienced the latter a couple of times but not near as often as I did with my '12 Wing.

Now, Phantom or Ghost shifts. Many 2012 & 2013 Wings have had transmissions downshift from fifth to fourth gear both under power and while slowing. I experienced this problem on both my 2008 and 2012 Gold Wings. When under power, it feels like a automobile with automatic transmission going into passing gear and it is anoying and scarry when it occurs. Of course, it is not predictable and the dealer cannot ever seem to duplicate the condition so they are not too agreeable to provide repairs.

Having explained the situation, I must say the F6B has the best shifting transmissions of any of my three Gold Wing chassis motorcycles and I have never experienced a Phantom Shift.

I was wondering if anyone has experience with this on their F6B?

I agree with you on the best shifting bike comment.
I have had zero shifting issues. I do recall one magazine review where the author stated he had a hard time finding neutral. I have had no issues with neutral either. It's right where it is supposed to be.

Beagle

I posted B.C....that after running 80+ mph for over 6 hours, I came off the highway and I shifted up thru the gears and the O.D. light never came on...later slowed and stopped for a light and all was good after that and it has not happened since....usually when the phantom shift occurs it has something to do with a lazy shift or a new pair of shoes.....

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Originally Posted by Steve 0080

I posted B.C....that after running 80+ mph for over 6 hours, I came off the highway and I shifted up thru the gears and the O.D. light never came on...later slowed and stopped for a light and all was good after that and it has not happened since....usually when the phantom shift occurs it has something to do with a lazy shift or a new pair of shoes.....

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I agree with you 100%. However, once it occurs, it seems to keep happening. It probably messes up the syncronizers or gears once it happens. The key, I believe, is to never have a lazy shift. My mini floorboards actually assist me in providind more positive shifting because they move my foot foreward, closer to the shifter which reduces the amount of movement required.

Never had an issue with the OD lights but did have TPMS system light problems on my 2012 Wing. Since we don't have TPMS on the F6B, I can check that potential problem off the list.

Given that WE have a couple members on this forum...one named Phantom, and the other named Ghost...I have to wonder if they have something to do with this phenomenon, or...are they taking your bikes for a ride ????????:icon_mrgreen:

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Originally Posted by Miles

Given that WE have a couple members on this forum...one named Phantom, and the other named Ghost...I have to wonder if they have something to do with this phenomenon, or...are they taking your bikes for a ride ????????:icon_mrgreen:

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:what: :shock: …………… :icon_razz:

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Originally Posted by Steve 0080

I posted B.C....that after running 80+ mph for over 6 hours, I came off the highway and I shifted up thru the gears and the O.D. light never came on...later slowed and stopped for a light and all was good after that and it has not happened since....usually when the phantom shift occurs it has something to do with a lazy shift or a new pair of shoes.....

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480+ miles on 6.7gal of fuel is is outstanding:clap2::joke:


Phantom shift, I honestly think they are lazy shifts or a incomplete shift. Not this Ghost business

I cannot comment on the grounds that it might incriminate me. :shhh:

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Originally Posted by Steve 0080

....that after running 80+ mph for over 6 hours, I came off the highway and I shifted up thru the gears and the O.D. light never came on...later slowed and stopped for a light and all was good after that and it has not happened since....usually when the phantom shift occurs it has something to do with a lazy shift or a new pair of shoes.....

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Just turned over 3000mi so changed the oil for the first time. Put in Rotella T6 5W-40 on the strength of the recommendations here. I previously had never encountered the Phantom Shift.

Similar to Steve 0080, I got off the freeway after about an hour of 70+. After shifting up through the gears, it downshifted from 5th to 4th.

So... is it the driving condition or the different specification oil? :shrug:

Steve in OR

Good question. I have always run Honda oil. I notice improved shifting after each 4000 mile oil change but still no ghost shifts

But, what you experienced, ghost or phantom down shifts without rider action, is what I had on both of my full Wings and it continued, from time time, until I sold them. Good luck. Hope it was a one time experience for you.

Apparently someone on the GW board, I think that is where I saw it posted, was able to find out from a fairly accurate source that Honda did not change the gears, 4th & 5th, but now is coating them both with some new type process than is supposed to aid in longer life...Maybe has something to do with this supposed "ghost shifting", maybe not as I have not yet had the transmission do anything but what it is made to do correctly...I am not going to open any comments about oil usage...but, I have again been advised by people who have ridden Honda bikes for many thousands of miles, using Honda oils. to be very cautious as to what type/brand of oil that I use that has the potential to cause some issues and T6 is one of them...I have absolutely NO experience using anything but Honda oils and therefore I am only posting what I was advised....period!!!

Just over 2500 miles and two months of ownership with no ghost/phantom shifts. If it ever does happen I'll be going directly to the dealership and give them an ear full. No bike should ever downshift on its own. That would be a highly unsafe condition and no bike I have ever owned has had such an issue.

Mine has done it a number of times, but it has become less frequent with more miles on the bike. I am around 2500 with one oil change. I have had more issues with the shift drum not returning to center until the throttle is rolled off and back on, which seems to unload and reset things. The ghost shifts do really get your attention when they happen. Sometimes it feels like the engine is cutting out. Once, early on, I had it bounce between 4th and 5th like a machine gun. Probably made six changes in 3 seconds.

Have not dropped the bike at the dealer yet, but again, it is doing it less and less as time goes on and miles accumulate.

Rob

Just at 9,300 miles to date and no shift problems.
Human error is my problem sometimes and I got small hoofs to boot !!

2014 F6B...
6500 miles...
0 ghost shifts.
No hesitation.
Decent paint.

Just sayin'.

Kazoo shifts :crackup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoSiKpqvD9Q

Just wanted to revive this thread and see if there were any updates. I recently had my oil changed at 16,000 miles and rode about 300 miles today. I had two times during the ride when the bike popped from 5th to 4th gear. I'm very concerned something may break if this happens again as there was a somewhat violent clunk when it happened. It is a major pain to take it to the dealer as it's an hour drive. Any suggestions?

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Originally Posted by toy_collector

Just wanted to revive this thread and see if there were any updates. I recently had my oil changed at 16,000 miles and rode about 300 miles today. I had two times during the ride when the bike popped from 5th to 4th gear. I'm very concerned something may break if this happens again as there was a somewhat violent clunk when it happened. It is a major pain to take it to the dealer as it's an hour drive. Any suggestions?

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Just to check. You do shift with authority, no pussy footing around? I personally have never had any problems on my 2013 F6B with 30K+. I shift hard & positive up or down with my size 16 boot.;roughrider;

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Originally Posted by toy_collector

Just wanted to revive this thread and see if there were any updates. I recently had my oil changed at 16,000 miles and rode about 300 miles today. I had two times during the ride when the bike popped from 5th to 4th gear. I'm very concerned something may break if this happens again as there was a somewhat violent clunk when it happened. It is a major pain to take it to the dealer as it's an hour drive. Any suggestions?

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A "5th to 4th" uncommanded shifting experience? Damn. That will get your attention.

And only because some of the guys reported their "size 12" was doing things uncommanded, I reckon you'll state that your toes were nowhere near the shift lever at the time of the downshift?

If it were me? There's no place in my garage for a transmission from "iRobot."
I'd be back at my dealer spouting superfluous safety speak and publicly pontificating warranty work.
Best of luck.
Steve

I had it happen once on a trip down to Deals Gap a couple weeks ago or so. I honestly don't know for sure if it could have been from an incomplete shift. Had been riding some pretty twisty roads in and out of several gears. It caused me thought of concern as we traveled down the road, eventually I thought less and less of it. That's the only time I can recall ever experiencing this. I have about 24 k on the bike.

With about 17,000 miles on my bike, yesterday was the first time I've experienced this and it happened twice. I had the oil changed at the dealer a couple weeks ago and I'm wondering if that had something to do with it. It just sucks 'cause I have to take a vacation day just to get the bike to the dealer.

Uncommanded downshifts have been a problem with GL1800 Goldwings since day one. For a long time Honda refused to admit there was a problem. In 2013 Honda said the have started treating 4th and 5th gears with a special coating that has solved the problem. I interpret this to mean that the have now solved the problem that they have never admitted to having. I know several people that have had this problem on older Wings. When I took my 2007 Wing down to trade in on the f6b the first question the salesman asked was "any 5th gear problems". This is something that is pretty well known in the Goldwing community.

I am very careful with my 4th to 5th gear shifts. I always make sure to fully engage 5th gear. It is just something to keep in mind

Assuming I just didn't get it tightly enough into 5th gear did it hurt it? I don't like that it said "OD" on the dash and I drove 100's of feet before it popped out. Seems like a defect to me. My main concern is I don't want my transmission to grenade once warranty is up.

I doubt very seriously that two uncommanded downshifts have done any significant damage. I also doubt that the recent service contributed to the problem. As I said in the previous post I always try to be very firm in my 4th to 5th gear shifts. As I understand it the shift fork is the first thing to be damaged from this. If you get significant damage the repairs are very expensive. The engine and transmission have to be removed from the bike, then the transmission can be separated from the engine and finally the transmission is disassembled and rebuilt. I have a friend that owns an independent Honda shop and he usually quotes between $3500 and $4000 for the repair. There are very few bikes that get to that point, just be careful with your shifts and it seems to be a minor irritant.

I know this all sounds very scary but if you are aware of the possibilities you shouldn't have a problem. I have been around the Goldwing community for quite a few years and I only know of two bikes that became unrideable because of this problem. Both had well over 100,000 miles on them. One owner decided to buy an engine and transmission from a low mileage wrecked Goldwing and have that installed in his bike. He claimed the cost was about the same as having his transmission rebuilt and he ended up with a complete low mileage power train. The other owner parked his in the garage and bought a new Goldwing. He claims he is going to take the bike apart himself and have the trans rebuilt. The pertinent fact is both these bikes were well over 100.000 miles. The one that is still parked in the garage was about 180,000.

This kind of a long post but I still bought a f6b and I have know about this problem for a long time. It is only a problem on a very few bikes and something you can usually live with if you are aware of it.

Never, 15,000 miles with Mobil 1 synthetic. Yes. I do.
J

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Originally Posted by Az Wingrider

I doubt very seriously that two uncommanded downshifts have done any significant damage. I also doubt that the recent service contributed to the problem. As I said in the previous post I always try to be very firm in my 4th to 5th gear shifts. As I understand it the shift fork is the first thing to be damaged from this. If you get significant damage the repairs are very expensive. The engine and transmission have to be removed from the bike, then the transmission can be separated from the engine and finally the transmission is disassembled and rebuilt. I have a friend that owns an independent Honda shop and he usually quotes between $3500 and $4000 for the repair. There are very few bikes that get to that point, just be careful with your shifts and it seems to be a minor irritant.

I know this all sounds very scary but if you are aware of the possibilities you shouldn't have a problem. I have been around the Goldwing community for quite a few years and I only know of two bikes that became unrideable because of this problem. Both had well over 100,000 miles on them. One owner decided to buy an engine and transmission from a low mileage wrecked Goldwing and have that installed in his bike. He claimed the cost was about the same as having his transmission rebuilt and he ended up with a complete low mileage power train. The other owner parked his in the garage and bought a new Goldwing. He claims he is going to take the bike apart himself and have the trans rebuilt. The pertinent fact is both these bikes were well over 100.000 miles. The one that is still parked in the garage was about 180,000.

This kind of a long post but I still bought a f6b and I have know about this problem for a long time. It is only a problem on a very few bikes and something you can usually live with if you are aware of it.

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I think that the pertinent question would be at what point should a person possibly look into having it looked at "BEFORE" someone has to fork over $3500-$4500? Like before the warranty has expired. That would be the dilemma most would have on their minds. Do you take it in after one experience, or wait until it's past the warranty period? I've experienced it once in 24,000 miles. Have 2 years left of warranty. If I were to experience it one or more times again, I'm going to be thinking.:icon_wink:

Since I started this thing, guess I should post an update. I have 36,000 miles on my '13 F6B and still have not experienced the ghost shifts I had on my two full Wings. Hope it never starts.

I have 30,000 miles on my F6B and just starting to have a shifting problem in second gear.
I had the same problem on my 2001(Kept popping out of second gear).
My 2013 is starting to hesitate and makes a bang noise when I down shift into second slow roll around a corner and get back on the gas without shifting.
I bought this used and with 4,000 miles on it.
I ride it everyday and it has just started to happen.
I can get it to do it almost every time I downshift.
Not sure what the warranty period is on this bike but, I need to get it checked out ASAP!!!
I will let you know what happens.

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Originally Posted by encinoman

I have 30,000 miles on my F6B and just starting to have a shifting problem in second gear.
I had the same problem on my 2001(Kept popping out of second gear).
My 2013 is starting to hesitate and makes a bang noise when I down shift into second slow roll around a corner and get back on the gas without shifting.
I bought this used and with 4,000 miles on it.
I ride it everyday and it has just started to happen.
I can get it to do it almost every time I downshift.
Not sure what the warranty period is on this bike but, I need to get it checked out ASAP!!!
I will let you know what happens.

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I forget what the standard warranty is. When I purchased mine, one of the purchase incentives was a 4 year warranty.

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Originally Posted by encinoman

I have 30,000 miles on my F6B and just starting to have a shifting problem in second gear.
I had the same problem on my 2001(Kept popping out of second gear).
My 2013 is starting to hesitate and makes a bang noise when I down shift into second slow roll around a corner and get back on the gas without shifting.
I bought this used and with 4,000 miles on it.
I ride it everyday and it has just started to happen.
I can get it to do it almost every time I downshift.
Not sure what the warranty period is on this bike but, I need to get it checked out ASAP!!!
I will let you know what happens.

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If you've got something like this that's measurable, observable, and repeatable - it's warranty time!
Looking forward to your update!

If you compare 2013 and 2014 transmissions on one of the OEM parts websites, you can see that Honda changed the part numbers for three parts (mainshaft gear 2/3, 4, and 5) in 2014. Somewhere on the web I saw photos comparing the old and new parts. Honda clearly knew they had a problem, though from what I've read it's pretty rare, like the rear brake issue.

I've only heard of a few reports where the ghost shifting actually caused damage. Those cases were bent shift forks.

I think that I just experienced something like this on my 2016.

I was on the highway taking an off ramp and had just shifted from 5th to 4th, decelerating and with the clutch fully out. About 500' after that I heard the dreaded gear crackling noise, and immediately pulled in the clutch, and shifted back up in to 5th, which stopped the noise. Firmly shifted back down to 4th and was ok for the rest of the ride.

First time I've ever heard it on the bike (4,600 +/- miles and recently serviced), and kind of think that maybe I just hadn't shifted firmly enough for it to catch completely.

IDK...

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Originally Posted by pilotguy299

I think that I just experienced something like this on my 2016.

I was on the highway taking an off ramp and had just shifted from 5th to 4th, decelerating and with the clutch fully out. About 500' after that I heard the dreaded gear crackling noise, and immediately pulled in the clutch, and shifted back up in to 5th, which stopped the noise. Firmly shifted back down to 4th and was ok for the rest of the ride.

First time I've ever heard it on the bike (4,600 +/- miles and recently serviced), and kind of think that maybe I just hadn't shifted firmly enough for it to catch completely.

IDK...

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It happened to me too, but I'm pretty sure I get lazy shifting. When I'm aware and shift firm, no problem.

No shifting problems and am running Honda full synthetic in the bike. Never had it do anything I thought was out of the ordinary. Just over 9 grand on the clock.

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Originally Posted by wjduke

It happened to me too, but I'm pretty sure I get lazy shifting. When I'm aware and shift firm, no problem.

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I agree with you Duke.
I know that sometimes I shift too softly when Puttsying around out in the country. A firmer shift always fixes the problem.

Have a question concerning 5th gear. When I shift into 5th it goes in no problem, but there's this extra clunk for lack of a better word. I'm not sure what it is, and I don't remeber it always being there. A coupe weeks ago I was accidentally shifted up into 5th while I was already in 5th. So, I'm wondering if I messed up something in the gear box, or is this normal for the Goldwing transmission? Anyone else have or know what I'm trying to explain? All the other gerars are smooth as silk and I know it doesn't require any effort practically to shift this transmission. (BTW, I rode my friend's '09 HD street glide today and it shifted so hard. I really didn't care for it.) Thanks

I've experienced this as well.