Confessions from the Darkside - UPDATE

Confessions from the Darkside - UPDATE

Having never traveled in the Darkside before, I wanted to test drive a car tire before committing. While I was not completely happy with the handling of the G-Max tire that I borrowed from Shooter, it did prove that a car tire would not hinder my driving, including slow, tight turns.

Finding reassurance from several folks on this forum regarding running a snow tire in the summer, I purchased a Michelin Primacy Alpin PA3 ZP from 1010tires.com for $178 plus $15 shipping. Not many left. 1010 and a company in Germany were the only ones that I found.

Shooter was kind enough to install it for me today—Thanks Shooter!

Filled at 41psi, I drove 1 hour home on highway and twisties. All I have to say is wow! I could tell within minutes that the tire was great. No handling issues at all. I couldn’t even tell that I was driving a car tire, felt like a MT, even when riding with my wife later this eve.

Pros: Run flat design, high mileage. Cons: none. HIGHLY recommended.

Ah, yes, another convert! Welcome to the Darkside!:yes:

Interesting. :shhh: This Michelin Alpine tire is made with....

Increased traction at low temperatures for improved braking and handling in the wet and better overall performance in the snow, all the result of the revolutionary Helio CompoundTM, with sunflower oil. :shock:

(pulled from 1010.com tire site)

This is just a question, I gathering info on darkside. Isn't that to much air??? I thought if you running a run flat you air pressure would be down by 32 34 ?? Like I said, just looking for answers.

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Originally Posted by zzh54

This is just a question, I gathering info on darkside. Isn't that to much air??? I thought if you running a run flat you air pressure would be down by 32 34 ?? Like I said, just looking for answers.

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:agree: That would normally be the case but it is subject to personal tastes. Still, that seems awfully high for a RF.

According to the specs the max is 51psi

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Originally Posted by Davidk

According to the specs the max is 51psi

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Don't run it at 40 or 42...shooter will have a heart attack :stirthepot:

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Originally Posted by Davidk

According to the specs the max is 51psi

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Too much air !!!!!!!! I ran mine at 36* ... Knowing this tire I would now run 32-34 !!!

Well DavidK... your post just finally pushed me over the edge. :icon_wink:

I just ordered a Michelin Alpine as well from 1010tire.com :shhh:

http://i63.tinypic.com/2q24v1h.jpg

I think that I'll be pleased by going to the Darkside. I've read and studied this enough FOR YEARS... and I am "TIRED" of replacing rear motorcycle tires so often....

Now I need to find a car tire for my Suzuki DR650... :icon_rolleyes: that fricken machne goes through a rear tire every 3 thousand miles.... :banghead:

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Originally Posted by Steve 0080

Too much air !!!!!!!! I ran mine at 36* ... Knowing this tire I would now run 32-34 !!!

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What is the advantage of running at 32-34? What is the disadvantage of running it at 41?

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Originally Posted by Davidk

What is the advantage of running at 32-34? What is the disadvantage of running it at 41?

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The stiffer sidewalls of your Run-Flat eliminates the higher pressure required on a one ply sidewall tire i.e. General G-Max which requires 42/43 as a sweet spot pressure. 32/34 PSI appears to be the norm sweet spot for the run-flat. Do your research and you'll discover exactly what we're talking about. Your 51 PSI is a "maximum" and not required! G-Max has the identical 51 PSI maximum and not needed:icon_wink:

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Originally Posted by Davidk

What is the advantage of running at 32-34? What is the disadvantage of running it at 41?

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I agree with the 32-34 recommendation for this runflat. But having said that, I usually run it at 36 PSI because of where I ride.

The disadvantage that I see with running it at 41 is the waste of good rubber. The center of the tire will be gone into the wear bars while you still have good tread left on the edges.

You can't just generically put a number on tire pressure. Well , you can but it will be wrong. Tire pressure in this application should be based on how you ride , how much weight you are carrying , and as Monk said , where you ride. I run 40 lbs in my Alpin. I'm a big guy and my wife isn't petite. Most if the time I'm riding 2 up. With myself and my wife my passenger weight is close to 500 lbs. The right tire pressure for that isn't going to be the same as a 175 pound guy. I get even tire wear at that pressure and it feels great solo or two up.

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Originally Posted by shooter

You can't just generically put a number on tire pressure. Well , you can but it will be wrong. Tire pressure in this application should be based on how you ride , how much weight you are carrying , and as Monk said , where you ride. I run 40 lbs in my Alpin. I'm a big guy and my wife isn't petite. Most if the time I'm riding 2 up. With myself and my wife my passenger weight is close to 500 lbs. The right tire pressure for that isn't going to be the same as a 175 pound guy. I get even tire wear at that pressure and it feels great solo or two up.

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Yes, so true!!

I have a friend that always ran his Alpin between 38-40. But he was a pretty good size fellow.

Your PSI sweet spot has to be determined through experimentation, based on your particular parameters. :yes:

Gonna be down your way Monk , June 9-12 in Branson. Looking forward to riding over the mountain from Harrison to Russellville. Got a family group coming with me. If I see a Red B I'll give you a big wave. Gonna take them across the bridge at Beaver into Eureka Springs and of course eat at the Cliff Inn on Hwy 7. I got a brochure from Harrison board of tourism with some preplanned routes and attractions. Might do some of that also. Happy Riding.

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Originally Posted by shooter

Gonna be down your way Monk , June 9-12 in Branson. Looking forward to riding over the mountain from Harrison to Russellville. Got a family group coming with me. If I see a Red B I'll give you a big wave. Gonna take them across the bridge at Beaver into Eureka Springs and of course eat at the Cliff Inn on Hwy 7. I got a brochure from Harrison board of tourism with some preplanned routes and attractions. Might do some of that also. Happy Riding.

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Hope you have a great trip to Arkansas!!

I've seen those brochures from Harrison. While they have some good information, in my opinion, most of the routes could stand to be tweeked some. But, I like getting off the main routes and into the back roads.

Be advised, highway 7 has several spots with road construction. I prefer this route on highway 21 from Harrison to Russellville: https://goo.gl/maps/efANrWvar5o

It is a little further, but more rural with less traffic and better curves. And if you leave early from Harrison, you stand a real good chance of seeing the Elk in the Boxley valley.

If you need help with routes, etc. let me know.

Thanks for the info Monk. Might go your way early to see the elk and come back across 7 to eat at the Cliff Inn. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by Davidk

Pros: Run flat design, high mileage. Cons: none. HIGHLY recommended.

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Welcome to the darkside 'dark-side'

I can't believe how much 1010tire has taken advantage of the availability of this Michelin Alpin tire, and increase the price that much.

Wonder when Tire Rack will have them in stock again.

Attachment 20701

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Originally Posted by nvmyf6

I can't believe how much 1010tire has taken advantage of the availability of this Michelin Alpin tire, and increase the price that much.

Wonder when Tire Rack will have them in stock again.

Attachment 20701

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If I am not mistaken, they are no longer made.

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Originally Posted by Davidk

If I am not mistaken, they are no longer made.

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Who knows for sure. You are probably right though.

Davidk,

My first Michelin Primacy Alpin I ran at 41 psi and it only lasted 27,850 miles. The sides had good tread but the center was down to the wear bars. I now have 6,000 miles my second Alpin and running 32psi the wear is even across the tire.

I'm very pleased with the performance and handling. I picked up a screw on a trip last year and it seemed to be a good bit harder to get a plug into this tire.

Happy riding on your Alpin.

Only 27,850. Boy , we are suffering now. Four times the mileage for the same money. Not bad.

I wish a US dealer still had stock. 60 dollars shipping from 1010---that's high, imo. And with this tire being discontinued, I'm wondering what the date codes are on their stock. I might just wait for the next greatest zp tire. :icon_frown:

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Originally Posted by wiggy

I wish a US dealer still had stock. 60 dollars shipping from 1010---that's high, imo. And with this tire being discontinued, I'm wondering what the date codes are on their stock. I might just wait for the next greatest zp tire. :icon_frown:

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Shipping was $15 for the tire for me from 1010tires. My tire's date showed it to be 1 year old.

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Originally Posted by Davidk

What is the advantage of running at 32-34? What is the disadvantage of running it at 41?

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If you will try it...I doubt you will see a difference other than tire life.

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Originally Posted by Drive Jehu

Davidk,

My first Michelin Primacy Alpin I ran at 41 psi and it only lasted 27,850 miles. The sides had good tread but the center was down to the wear bars. I now have 6,000 miles my second Alpin and running 32psi the wear is even across the tire.

I'm very pleased with the performance and handling. I picked up a screw on a trip last year and it seemed to be a good bit harder to get a plug into this tire.

Happy riding on your Alpin.

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Same experience I had !!!

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Originally Posted by Davidk

Shipping was $15 for the tire for me from 1010tires. My tire's date showed it to be 1 year old.

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Thanks, Dave for the info. The 60 dollars showed when I put in my west of Chicago zip code under the "estimate shipping" box

. Maybe I'll try it again and see what the final shipping cost is.

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Originally Posted by Drive Jehu

Davidk,

My first Michelin Primacy Alpin I ran at 41 psi and it only lasted 27,850 miles. The sides had good tread but the center was down to the wear bars. I now have 6,000 miles my second Alpin and running 32psi the wear is even across the tire.

I'm very pleased with the performance and handling. I picked up a screw on a trip last year and it seemed to be a good bit harder to get a plug into this tire.

Happy riding on your Alpin.

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I'm surprised at the low miles you get on these car tires. I got 24k on my Dunlop 3 MC tires, front and rear. I was expecting to hear numbers in the area of 50k miles for the car tires.

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Originally Posted by Brewdog

I'm surprised at the low miles you get on these car tires. I got 24k on my Dunlop 3 MC tires, front and rear. I was expecting to hear numbers in the area of 50k miles for the car tires.

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Was that mileage on your Harley or F6B?

*** You have to remember riding styles has everything to do with tire life! Do you live in the mountains or FLA...big difference !!!

24k miles on a MC tire isn't a riding style. Its a lot of easy riding with not much high speed or corners and not much weight on a bike.

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Originally Posted by Steve 0080

*** You have to remember riding styles has everything to do with tire life! Do you live in the mountains or FLA...big difference !!!

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:agree::agree:

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Originally Posted by bob109

Was that mileage on your Harley or F6B?

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Bob109,
That mileage was on my Harley.

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Originally Posted by Brewdog

Bob109,
That mileage was on my Harley.

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Was that mileage on the trailer or truck that was hauling the Harley? :icon_wink:

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Originally Posted by 3Chief

Was that mileage on the trailer or truck that was hauling the Harley? :icon_wink:

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'party':icon_laugh:

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Originally Posted by Brewdog

Bob109,
That mileage was on my Harley.

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I kind of suspected that. First, your Harley has a different rack and trail on the front end in comparison to the 6. Have several friends who own Harley's and routinely get 24K miles from front tires so that is not new or unheard of. The rear tire is another story, especially on the 6. With just 1190 miles on my stock Stone, there was a apparent flat spot in the tire center. I personally doubt that tire would have delivered any mileage over 7/8 K miles. That was one of the primary reasons I yanked the tire and went "Dark Side" I'm not overly zealous with the throttle but I must admit I don't baby the "right grip" either. I suspect that big old 1800 + CC horizontally opposed flat sixes power contributes to some tire scrubbing especially climbing steep, long hills without ever "down shifting. You, of course, are in a position to make a "side by side comparison" as you own both bikes. That said, it will be interesting to see/hear when you report out on what actual mileage you achieve with the 6 and stock Stone or any other rear cycle tire for that matter:icon_wink: Please keep us posted:039:

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Originally Posted by bob109

I kind of suspected that. First, your Harley has a different rack and trail on the front end in comparison to the 6. Have several friends who own Harley's and routinely get 24K miles from front tires so that is not new or unheard of. The rear tire is another story, especially on the 6. With just 1190 miles on my stock Stone, there was a apparent flat spot in the tire center. I personally doubt that tire would have delivered any mileage over 7/8 K miles. That was one of the primary reasons I yanked the tire and went "Dark Side" I'm not overly zealous with the throttle but I must admit I don't baby the "right grip" either. I suspect that big old 1800 + CC horizontally opposed flat sixes power contributes to some tire scrubbing especially climbing steep, long hills without ever "down shifting. You, of course, are in a position to make a "side by side comparison" as you own both bikes. That said, it will be interesting to see/hear when you report out on what actual mileage you achieve with the 6 and stock Stone or any other rear cycle tire for that matter:icon_wink: Please keep us posted:039:

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Bob109,
I'm not overly aggressive on the Harley. There's not enough HP to do a whole lot intense riding. The suspension on the Harley is a weak point for that type of riding. I suspect you're right, I may not do as well with the F6B. The mileage I got on the dunlops surprised me for sure. Here's a pic of the rear tire right before I got new skins put on. I've manage 1500 miles on the B in between raindrops since new. Of course the tires still look new. I will do a side by side comparison in the future.

Attachment 20818