Officially joining the ranks of the Darkside today. CT mounted, everything looks good. Time to get ready for work and off on the inaugural run I be.
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Officially joining the ranks of the Darkside today. CT mounted, everything looks good. Time to get ready for work and off on the inaugural run I be.
:yes: :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Chief
How you liking it ?????????'dark-side' I haven't looked back.
This is day two, not sold on it so far. I knew there would be an adjustment period however, this CT feels squishy. It is a Michelin X-ICE XI3 XL. Yesterday I tried it at 42 PSI, it didn't look quite right but this tire is extremely soft. Last night I dug thru the forum and found pictures of a similar tire that was a RF and I bumped up my pressure today to 46 to get a similar appearance. Still didn't look quite right so I took it to the 50 psi max. It looked better but still feels squishy. This particular tire may just be to soft to use on a bike. Anyone have some insight that may help me with this?Quote:
Originally Posted by smiley
What made you decide on the Michelin X-ICE XI3 XL? Are other Goldwingers/F6B'rs running that tire?Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Chief
Don't go by appearance of the tire while static (other than tread wear). The tire is going to slightly deform when going into a turn; but if you put too much air into it; it will not deform (meaning flex the sidewall to keep enough tread on the pavement) and you will end up riding on the edge/sidewall of the tire.
Bob109 runs non-run flats, as do others. Hopefully he'll chime in shortly with his experiences with the non-run flats.
My only experience so far has been with run flat C/T's which take much less air pressure; compared to what you are running.
Do not give up yet... you need to find that sweet spot (psi) for your weight w/ the tire. As far as the felt sensation goes; yes it can be felt different in comparison to a motorcycle tire. When I was down in Woodstock; Ga a few months ago getting my Traxxion installed; the tech there took my bike out for a spin first and came back remarking "this is the first time I rode a dark side and almost didn't seem to know it was there..."
But I have a run flat... the variable between mine and your tire is going to be the respective air pressure. Find it.
The Michelin X-ICE XI3 XL was one of the ones Phantom had suggested in another thread. Static on the side stand at 42 psi it looked low, I ran it in last night to check if it was just an optical thing. It was pretty squishy, a lot of flex. Even at 50 psi I can feel the tire molding to the road especially at low speeds on uneven surfaces.Quote:
Originally Posted by willtill
I'm not giving up yet, I know I'll have to play with the pressure more. My concern is more that this tire is to soft and I'll have to replace it. I hate wasting "good" tires.
I should've bought a RF but it's a learning experience either way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Chief
Follow this link to post #19 for my post ... http://hondaf6b.com/showthread.php?1...rand-for-looks
I just went by size and cross referenced the new replacement of the old Michelin ALPIN tire that is no longer available plus posted a Pirelli tire also.
Unfortunately the positive reviews are most likely from car owners and we don't know how different the new replacements are in comparison to the old until someone tries one. I personally do not have experience with car tires, however several of my friends do and not one complaint, all of them have never returned back to a motorcycle tire.
I know that not everyone likes the same car tires, they each have their preferences also. Some like them softer, some like them stiffer :shrug:
The reality of Dark Siding is that each rider can experience totally different outcomes with the identical tire. That said, you make no mention of your weight in your post! Paramount to achieving the "correct sweet spot" in regards to "tire pressure" several factors come into play! Tire Brand, Thread/Tread Design, Side Wall Construction and, of course, Air Pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Chief
I speak only of my "non run-flat" experience with a 195/55R16 General G-Max! Comparing the Thread/Tread patterns of your Michelin to the Max indicates a "marked difference" in overall "grove/sipeing" hence a true comparison of performance would be hard for me to articulate.
IMHO I would suggest you lower/drop your tire pressure to 36/38 PSI and start increasing pressure in 1 to 2 pound increments to aid you in finding your "sweet spot"! Even when you find that "magic number" you will experience the "slightest of squirm"! It's simply the nature of "Dark Siding" with a non-run flat car tire! That is the main reason there has been a "shift" to "Run Flats" and their "stiffer" side walls".
As has been mentioned, not every Car Tire is a candidate for "Dark Siding"! The Michelin you have used appears to have a "low rating" in "rain performance" when used on a automobile! That would concern me and may be a culprit to DS performance.
Keep us posted as to your experience with you Michelin! You may ultimately find this tire unacceptable and have to replace it!! Nothing ventured, nothing gained!
Ride Safe
bob109
That's where I got it from when I was finally ready to take a turn on the DS. No worries tho, my money my choice. I should've done a bit more research on this tire and dug around some of the other sites that have been reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom
I weigh in about 315 right now. I understood I'd have to play with the pressure to find my "sweet spot" and there would be some slight differences in handling particularly at lower speeds. I'll adjust the pressure a few more times before I call no joy on this tire, however even if this tire isn't the one for me I'm not done with the DS, I will try a RF next tho :icon_biggrin:.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob109
Even at 50 psi it seems really squirmy, as I've said this tire is extremely soft. It's given me a few pauses in the 2 days it's been on my B. The first night at 42 psi it looked "low" and I could feel the rear of the bike squirming around. I have to go over some pretty uneven surfaces to get to the parking lot at work and I could really feel the tire molding to the surfaces. On the way home that night slowing to take the turn onto my street, on wet pavement, my rear locked and slid for a moment. Hadn't had that happen before on the B, but there are a lot of maple leaves in that area. Even when I made the turn it seemed to wallow a little. The next day I bumped the pressure to 46 psi. The tire still looked "low" so I went to 50 psi. Looked better and was much firmer with by far less squirm then the night before. I could still feel it conforming to the road surface however not nearly as much as the night before. On the way home tho I got up to more of my normal cruising speeds and found that it really didn't like the crown in the road when switching lanes. Definitely tracks the ruts more than a MC tire. I didn't ride in today as it was pouring when I went by work, lots of standing water and 2 accidents on my way home from the store. I'll try again tomorrow at a lower pressure.
This is a given and is well known to Darksiders: a car tire will track imperfections in the road much more perceptibly than a motorcycle tire.
You've got to get used to that. And if you do.. you will develop the skills required for that while you are riding. If you can do this... you will be eligible for the cookie that the Darkside offers.
You will occasionally see uneven road in front of you... you should (and will) expect non-linear movement of the bike and you should (and will) adjust your counter steering accordingly to compensate. You will find that you'll develop enhanced counter steering reaction while running a car tire, and it eventually will become second nature; a non-event for you.
Been there (many of us) Done that (many of us). :yes: :yes:
Dropped the pressure to 48 psi today. That seemed to help a lot, we'll see on my swim home.
IMHO.... follow Bob's recommendation. Work your way up in psi... not down.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Chief
I do not run a snow/ice tire but a summer tire as I believe that is where the best traction is found. I do not use a run flat and my weight is over 300 lbs. My summer tire does not squirm even a little at 42 lbs. In fact you have to really pay attention to realize it might be a little different feeling than a MT. It is perfect and looks great also, much closer to a MT in looks than many I've seen. This is my second CT on a bike and I have tens of thousands miles, mostly on one tire on a VTX. Go back and read some post of people with many miles under their belts and you will see that they do not use a run flat or a snow/ice tire. You have now tried an untried tire with poor results, if you give up on that one try something that people have already found good results from.
Chief, I'm sure you read thru this thread. http://hondaf6b.com/showthread.php?1...sing-snow-tire
I misread/misunderstood somethings when I made my selection. No worries however as it's been a good learning experience. At 42 psi this tire squirms around a lot, I know generally you want to start low and raise the pressure 1 to 2 psi as been suggested. The reason I jumped to 50 was at 42 and 46 it looked like a low tire, so far at 48 it seems alright. 50 psi may have caused it to bounce/buck more or enhanced the different flexing points between the inner tire and outer tread. As I've said before this tire is really soft and tacky. I believe there are many DS disciples in both camps when it comes to RF or NonRF and winter/summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wheelsforme
I had scanned it before but I've reread it now. It'll still end up being what feels best to the individual rider. I know there are many here who like the OEM Stones and I can't stand them, however the flip is I've had good experiences with Mezzlers on my VTX and many here do not like them at all. The CT equivalent of the OEM Stones to me is Toyo's. I hate Toyo's yet I know many people who swear by them. It's our individual experiences and personal taste that determine our tire selections more so than scientific facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wheelsforme
I'll play with this tire for a bit. If I get it to feel right to me I'll keep it. If I don't I'll either throw the OEM back on or replace it with a Mezzler while I figure out what CT to try next. The benefits of having a spare rim :icon_mrgreen:
Thank you all for your insights. I'll keep you updated with my DS experience.
After nearly a month on the Darkside I have a few observations:
1) No major change in riding style, actual when I finally had a few dry days and could play it handled very well.
2) Tire pressure is critical, I finally settled at 44 psi. It's amazing how much the pressure will change the characteristics of a CT on a bike.
3) A remote TPS is a must, I spend way to much time on the ground checking the TP.
Still have a few issues:
1) Occasional side to side wobble, I'm fairly certain its caused by the grooves in the road but it is not pleasant.
2) This tire does not like deicer at all in a corner, although whatever they sprayed turn to a gel. The roads were slimy but that's the first time I'd ever slid in that corner...
3) Temperatures seem to change the way this tire feels way to much hence why I'm constantly checking the TP.
4) The occasional squirm seems to have gotten more frequent as time has gone on, although it may be more due to the fact that I've been riding it harder as I've gotten used to the tire.
Overall I think my experiment on the DS has been successful, however I think this particular tire is a bust. I'll play with it a bit longer but I think I'm going to swap it out over winter break in between house projects.
Thanks for your very informative feedback! Info like yours goes a long way in educating others as to the specific characteristics of a tire brand! As was earlier mentioned in this thread, not all tires are "good candidates" for Dark Siding! Based on your reported weight you my want to consider a "stiffer sidewall Run Flat" as your next tire. Both Tire Rack and Discount Tire Direct provide a broad selection of top quality run flats with excellent thread/tread patterns. With the growing number of Dark Siders on our Forum there no shortage of "DS tire use/recommendations!
Regards and Safe Riding
bob109
A run flat with stiffer sidewalls might help. I would think getting away from an ice and snow tire which are reported to feel more squishy would be another direction to head. I have none of those problems with my summer tire. I also think a CT will wear the corners a bit and break in to feel better as it wears.
I'm definitely going to try a RF next, although I will dig thru the DS forum more thoroughly before making my next tire selection.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob109
Getting away from this particular ice and snow tire will definitely be a plus a I still believe it's to soft in general for MC use. After close to 700 miles it feels fine in the corners unless I'm on the throttle. I was turning onto an onramp and got after it out of the turn and felt the tire deform/twist. I know on shaft driven bikes you can get a similar feeling under hard acceleration from a stop as the shaft torques the rim however I wasn't on it that hard. Also more than once it's felt like I was "crabbing" especially if there was a crown on the road. Live and learn :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wheelsforme
I have played around with the idea of DS tire but hesitate. First, I have the full Monty on my bike and don't want to lose that precision in my ride. Second, I'm not sure what tire and brand to put on the bike. One poster took the recommendation of snow/ice from another post and that didn't work out well. When you go to other threads the recommendations are all over the place.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I have the full Monty also and with my current limited DS experience I would definitely go with a run flat. The tire I'm currently running is way to soft for me. Otherwise I only noticed a slight adjustment once I actually relaxed a little on the CT. By and large once you stop thinking about it it's a minimal adjustment and the handling characteristics of the bike are pretty much the same. I personally don't care for the squiggly feeling this particular tire gives me at odd times. I'm going to swap back to my OEM this week while researching what CT to try next. I would recommend picking up a second rim if you don't already have one and use it for CT experiments until you either find one you like or decide it's not for you. That way you can readily swap back if needed. That's what I'm doing and if a run flat removes that squiggly feeling I'll most likely stay on the darkside. It's worth the experiment either way. I honestly feel that the bike is more responsive and snaps out of corners better with the CT than the OEM. I can also definitely feel the CT grabbing better in low traction situations. On the downside the squishy squiggly feeling this tire gives me is unnerving and the bike seems to crab when the road has bad grooves. I want to try a stiffer side wall tire and see if it clears up my issues before I give up on the DS.Quote:
Originally Posted by crossbowme
Nothing ventured nothing gained, don't let the naysayers dissuade you from forming your own opinion. Just do your research. I'm not happy with this particular tire, which is a snow/ice tire, however I did not do enough research on my own before I bought it. Several others on this board run snow/ice tires and luv them. It appears that the particular tire I bought no one else had tried so it was a new experience for all. My next CT will be something more tried an true. :icon_mrgreen:
Thanks for your info. Please post on here after you try other tires. I would like to here about your experiences.Quote:
Originally Posted by 3Chief
soooooo, you go to the "dark side" (aka car tires that are not built to lean over) because the tires are cheaper & they last longer ?? I think, I would try another hobby where my moneys not such a issue..............just sayin'
Someone once also said.. "man was not meant to fly"Quote:
Originally Posted by olegoat345
Keep living in a box, you'll never enjoy new experiences.
And that "Wisdom" comes from a "Once Critic of the Dark Side".........."just sayin":DQuote:
Originally Posted by willtill
So true. I eventually learned to climb out of the box that I was in. :icon_wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by bob109
Will....
What CT are you currently running?
Michelin Alpine 3 Run FlatQuote:
Originally Posted by Walcrow
The bike leaned fine and seemed to snap upright faster leaving corners. My main issue was the "squishy" feeling. The concept was sound and had I experimented with a better tire I most likely would still be running one. I'll revisit the issue next rear tire although I must say the 888's I'm running feel awesome.