full Wing vs F6B ... 8 new reflections

Hey guys - as you may know, I replaced my 2013 F6B with 27k on it with a ‘16 full Wing Level 3.

Here’s what I’ve noticed in two months of ownership:

1. The F6B feels faster and handles better.
I’m not sure if it’s just the huge seat cushion that wraps my arse and lower back, and possibly keeps me planted better vs flatter, wider seat on F6B, but the big Wing feels slower.

I’ve also noticed my level of comfort on a sharp turn with a steep tip-in is less with the big Wing ... making the F6 feel more maneuverable and nimble.

2. No one f***s with me on the big Wing.
Seems as though every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to mess with me on the black F6...either a stoplight race or driving aggressively behind me in turns, playing keep up. That doesn’t happen with the full Wing ... people see it and treat it like it’s the Family Truckster.

3. Rear suspension far better on full Wing.
This actually has caused me to realize how mediocre the front suspension is and considering some sort of upgrade. I keep the preload at 15 (electronic adjustment range is 0-25).

4. RPMs are slightly lower on Full Wing ... 2600 vs 2800 at 60 mph.

5. Full Wing is quieter ... I can hear the intake far more often than the exhaust.

6. Fuel mileage is the same ... pretty solid 42-43 mpg from both bikes over 30k+ miles total

7. Love the trunk ... not sure how I got by without one for many years back to my VStar days.

8. The ‘16 shifter is noticeably better than the ‘13 with the upgrade ... smoother, more precise, no ghost shifting.

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Both are great bikes, both serve a surprisingly distinctive purpose despite being almost the same bike. Full Wing is more practical and comfortable; F6 more cool and fun.

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Originally Posted by VStarRider

Hey guys - as you may know, I replaced my 2013 F6B with 27k on it with a ‘16 full Wing Level 3.

Here’s what I’ve noticed in two months of ownership:

1. The F6B feels faster and handles better.
I’m not sure if it’s just the huge seat cushion that wraps my arse and lower back, and possibly keeps me planted better vs flatter, wider seat on F6B, but the big Wing feels slower.

I’ve also noticed my level of comfort on a sharp turn with a steep tip-in is less with the big Wing ... making the F6 feel more maneuverable and nimble.

2. No one f***s with me on the big Wing.
Seems as though every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to mess with me on the black F6...either a stoplight race or driving aggressively behind me in turns, playing keep up. That doesn’t happen with the full Wing ... people see it and treat it like it’s the Family Truckster.

3. Rear suspension far better on full Wing.
This actually has caused me to realize how mediocre the front suspension is and considering some sort of upgrade. I keep the preload at 15 (electronic adjustment range is 0-25).

4. RPMs are slightly lower on Full Wing ... 2600 vs 2800 at 60 mph.

5. Full Wing is quieter ... I can hear the intake far more often than the exhaust.

6. Fuel mileage is the same ... pretty solid 42-43 mpg from both bikes over 30k+ miles total

7. Love the trunk ... not sure how I got by without one for many years back to my VStar days.

8. The ‘16 shifter is noticeably better than the ‘13 with the upgrade ... smoother, more precise, no ghost shifting.

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Both are great bikes, both serve a surprisingly distinctive purpose despite being almost the same bike. Full Wing is more practical and comfortable; F6 more cool and fun.

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I just up-graded the front suspension with the Traxxion fork springs kit and AllBalls bearings, new seals, fork oil, etc. and it makes a huge difference over the stock F6B front suspension in my opinion..Well worth the money in my judgement...Regards...

I'm really curious about number 3. Any ideas as to what makes the rear suspension better? Is it a different shock/spring than the B? If not, perhaps the added weight of the trunk loads the spring more effectively? VstarRider or anyone else have insights?

Jason

Jason, I have no idea but there is a significant difference. I am sure part of that difference is attributable to the seat, which is really plush. You do sit about two inches further forward on the full Wing as well. Perhaps shock or shock calving is different? Maybe someone else will chime in.

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Originally Posted by VStarRider

Jason, I have no idea but there is a significant difference. I am sure part of that difference is attributable to the seat, which is really plush. You do sit about two inches further forward on the full Wing as well. Perhaps shock or shock calving is different? Maybe someone else will chime in.

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That makes sense, Vstar. I bet the seating position contributes to it. I've noticed on the B that if you slide forward toward the middle of the seat, your spine isn't quite as much in the line of fire of the shock rebounding as it is further back.

Jason

Ref #2, I occasionally ride my black 2013 F6B with a Harley Razor Pack added. I see a difference in how other drivers react to the bike, depending on whether or not the pack is on. Without it, I do not get the cagers trying to keep up, or challenge for position in traffic.... it's like they accept it as a "sport bike" or "bad ass" bike and accept that you're "passing by". With the pack on, it's like they assume you're a "touring barge" ridden by an old guy who's in their way. Everybody is out to prove their sport sedan or hopped - up whatever is faster than the bike.... I am always having to prove them wrong :D Interesting that we would have such a different take on it.

I agree. I see it as a little fun or excitement on the ride. Most cages can forget about out running the B. I know. Some will. Most won't.

"4. RPMs are slightly lower on Full Wing ... 2600 vs 2800 at 60 mph."

If you are using the same rear tire size, the rpms should not be any different. Same motor, same drive train.

P.S. Thanks for the write-up! :)

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Originally Posted by 98valk

"4. RPMs are slightly lower on Full Wing ... 2600 vs 2800 at 60 mph."

If you are using the same rear tire size, the rpms should not be any different. Same motor, same drive train.

P.S. Thanks for the write-up! :)

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That was my thought. 200 rpms, maybe a difference in the accuracy between the 2 tachs or like you said, the tires are different.

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Originally Posted by 98valk

"4. RPMs are slightly lower on Full Wing ... 2600 vs 2800 at 60 mph."

If you are using the same rear tire size, the rpms should not be any different. Same motor, same drive train.

P.S. Thanks for the write-up! :)

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Same motor, same drivetrain, more weight. If anything, you'd think they'd be ever so slightly higher. Interesting.

Jason

Everything effects everything....

With more weight (trunk) in the rear with the same spring rate, the higher weight will handle the bumps better as will the softer seat on the GL1800. You'll perceive it as a suspension upgrade on the full wing. If you run light on the F6b, set your spring rate lighter and you can almost match the "feel" of the suspension to the Gl1800. You'll of course get a little more bounce to the back end on the f6b because you are in fact much lighter back there than the GL1800. It's a feel thing I think more than anything. Personally the stock suspension on my F6b is the best I've ever ridden on coming from riding Harleys.

I agree fully that the F6b puts out more attitude in the looks department being a bagger. It looks fast, sleek, long and low. It begs more attention from other riders and most cyclists know full well that the GL1800 motors can flat out stomp when they need to. Add that knowledge to the visual appeal of the low slung bagger and it's given a little more street cred and respect.

I ride both a 13 F6B and a 14 full wing. I agree the f6b feels faster, but I think for myself I am faster threw a twistee road on the full wing. I also have aftermarket suspension on the front of the wing, so that may be part of it. I think you are spot on with you last line. Both are great bikes........ Enjoy the full wing.

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Originally Posted by Verismo

Same motor, same drivetrain, more weight. If anything, you'd think they'd be ever so slightly higher. Interesting.

Jason

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Verismo - I'm confused. How would weight make RPMs higher or lower? Unless it's so heavy the clutch is slipping. :)

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Originally Posted by rdbonds

Verismo - I'm confused. How would weight make RPMs higher or lower? Unless it's so heavy the clutch is slipping. :)

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Hey rdbonds, for the same reason it requires more throttle going up a hill, because the load has increased. So with the full wing and the B having the same engine and drivetrain, the B should theoretically have to work just a little less to move its lighter weight, all other things being equal, which they are undoubtedly not. Aerodynamics plays a big role here, too. The difference in having a trunk shouldn't be one of only weight, but drag, too.

Hey Vstar, do you remember if you had a headwind or if the road was flat when you noticed this difference?

Does anyone else have a full(01-17) wing here that can describe their rpms at highway speeds on a relatively flat stretch? Would be interesting to hear.

Jason

Load, weight, resistance... None of that should effect RPM at a given speed. It doesn’t work like that. Those factors could cause the bike to travel at a lower speed at wide open throttle. Gear ratios and engine speed are not effected by those factors. They could be changed by tire sizes, electronic adjustment, a gearing change at some point in the driveline, or as someone mentioned, the clutch slipping.

Thanks for the clarification, Coondawg. So given the factors you listed that would affect RPM's, any guesses about Vstar's? Both the wing and B call for the same tire sizes, right? Seems weird.

Jason

You're wrong dawg. It will affect rpm slightly. Get in a 30 mile per hour headwind and check rpm at 60 mph. Turn around and go back the other way on the same road with the same wind. There will be a difference. The wind is in effect a "load". More weight on the bike like riding two up on a hill will make a difference also.

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Originally Posted by Cooter

You're wrong dawg. It will affect rpm slightly. Get in a 30 mile per hour headwind and check rpm at 60 mph. Turn around and go back the other way on the same road with the same wind. There will be a difference. The wind is in effect a "load". More weight on the bike like riding two up on a hill will make a difference also.

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It doesn't matter if you're down hill with 50 kts on the tail, or up a hill pulling a boat - if you're in the same gear, at the same speed, the RPM will be the same. Unless physics and mechanical engineering work differently in the USA....

Relationship between RPM and speed does not change with load, weight or headwind. They are mechanically linked.

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Originally Posted by DarkKnt

It doesn't matter if you're down hill with 50 kts on the tail, or up a hill pulling a boat - if you're in the same gear, at the same speed, the RPM will be the same. Unless physics and mechanical engineering work differently in the USA....

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Agreed. However, fuel consumption will vary greatly, in those different circumstances, to keep the RPM's the same.

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Originally Posted by 2wheelsforme

Relationship between RPM and speed does not change with load, weight or headwind. They are mechanically linked.

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Agree 99.9999%. BUT - there is one other factor at work here that can cause a very small change in the engine RPM based on the load (but most likely not noticeable on an analog tachometer). And that is tire slippage. There is always an incredibly small amount of slippage between the tire and the road - that's why it wears. If you stand on the brakes, the tire slides and the wear increases. If there were no slippage, there would be no wear. More load (weight, increased throttle, headwinds) all equate to more work and thus more energy used in the form of tire slippage assuming a constant of tire to road friction.

Bring on the flames!

Call it what you want, If you have a manual clutch, there is no rpm difference at the same speed. Up hill or down. Unless the clutch is slipping.
Maybe a hundred with a DCT automatic.

Not a mechanic, maybe the difference in rpm is due to a difference in speedo error, unless you are measuring with a GPS.
Slim chance it is tire diameter difference if you are running different make of tires and they have a different profile.

Relationship between RPM and speed does not change with load, weight or headwind. They are mechanically linked.

Spot on. Your RPM does not change at any given speed with a pillion on the back.

I agree with the speedo thing. They can be a few R,s off from bike to bike.

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Originally Posted by 2wheelsforme

Relationship between RPM and speed does not change with load, weight or headwind. They are mechanically linked.

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