Quote Originally Posted by dadeo View Post
The bottom line here is that an LEO must have a reasonable reason for bothering you.

Here is what I know, thanks to my Dad who was an attorney for years in crime ridden Syracuse NY. He always told us that we should carry ID when out, but it is not required by law for most situations - - - like if you are just out walking the dog. There are obvious exceptions: buying or carrying alcohol; operating a vehicle on public waterways, lands or roads; hunting and fishing; carrying a gun; voting (recently); etc.

He told us that you SHOULD ALWAYS treat an LEO with respect and COURTESY. He also said that we had to identify ourselves to an LEO when asked. But that we had the right to see the LEO's own badge/ID before showing or telling them our own name and address. This establishes that the person is indeed an LEO (yes, some wackos like to impersonate LEOs ). Security guards should be treated the same as LEOs, despite that in many states they have no right to do more than call an LEO.

He taught that (thanks to the 5th Amendment) we have the right (and maybe even the responsibility) to shut the hell up. This is usually where these situations go wrong, when some idiot thinks it's a good idea to tell the LEO where to go/get off/how to do their job (stupid). Dad's advice was to answer factual questions about what we've seen or doing, but that we have to right to decline to answer questions that are personal, not relevant, or accusatory.

Dad was a WW2 Vet who graduated from Harvard University on the GI bill in 1948. He did three years of law school in less than 2 years. It wasn't until I was in my late teens before I realized how remarkable this was. He was the smartest person I think I have ever meet. His strategy for dealing with LEOs was given to me over 40 years ago, and it has served me quite well in many, many interactions with LEOs. He counciled SU students, faculty and small businesses for 40 years....

So anything that you've got to say on this subject that contradicts my Dad's advice means nothing...

Sorry.
I'll say it again, in Stop and ID states, and NY is, whether you're walking your dog, petting your pussy, picking your nose when an officer asks you for ID and you refuse it is a crime and you will be detained. The caveat is there must be a suspicion of criminal activity so being that in any given area anywhere there are pending robberies, rapes, burglaries etc. with suspects that haven't been caught where the perps may fit your description, there's your suspicion. Now if you open your big mouth as it looks like you're the guy that tells them "I'm not showing you my ID, and BTW I pay your salary". Then combined with your non cooperation, against your father's advice, and further refusal to provide ID that's grounds for taking you in. You see the law is written for them not you and as your father knows we are under Public Policy so that gives the judge tremendous latitude. So if you think not carrying ID is the hill you want to die on, be my guest you will lose every single time and keep a lawyer on retainer. There is no law requiring you to pay an Income Tax or Withholding, and I did it for years hence the username, yet when you refuse the law exists and you are guilty, same here. Millions of people are fined, their pay garnished, imprisoned and property seized for non payment. Do you stand outside the IRS and say I'm not paying because I'm not required?