NFL sucks!

[dadeo]

I'll say it again, in Stop and ID states, and NY is, whether you're walking your dog, petting your pussy, picking your nose when an officer asks you for ID and you refuse it is a crime and you will be detained. The caveat is there must be a suspicion of criminal activity so being that in any given area anywhere there are pending robberies, rapes, burglaries etc. with suspects that haven't been caught where the perps may fit your description, there's your suspicion. Now if you open your big mouth as it looks like you're the guy that tells them "I'm not showing you my ID, and BTW I pay your salary". Then combined with your non cooperation, against your father's advice, and further refusal to provide ID that's grounds for taking you in. You see the law is written for them not you and as your father knows we are under Public Policy so that gives the judge tremendous latitude. So if you think not carrying ID is the hill you want to die on, be my guest you will lose every single time and keep a lawyer on retainer. There is no law requiring you to pay an Income Tax or Withholding, and I did it for years hence the username, yet when you refuse the law exists and you are guilty, same here. Millions of people are fined, their pay garnished, imprisoned and property seized for non payment. Do you stand outside the IRS and say I'm not paying because I'm not required?

You are right that a few states / localities have passed laws requiring the production of an ID on demand. BUT no such law as withstood a review all the way to Supremes... NY's came closes with stop and frisk, but I believe Rudy (or successor) dropped the case at the state level Appeal Ct level ( his attorneys told him they'd lose). I think we agree that anyone who give a copper a hard time is probably going to need someone like my Dad! But, someone who is cooperative is not likely to need one, if he self identifies and doesn't seem suspicious. Moreso, I agree that the only way you are going to successfully defend your right to walk that dog without ID (assuming a copper wants to push it) is to get someone like my Dad to defend you after the fact. That or the ACLU perhaps. On the other hand,, the locality paying that cop may hand out a large settlement -- depending on how far the copper and the dog walker take the issue...... Seen that too.

On taxes... Unfortunately, Congress did pass a law authorizing the income tax and there was a constitutional amendment back in the early part of the 20th Century making such a tax constitutional, although I don't believe the words "income tax" are in the text of the amendment. Btw, I F-ing hate the current income tax, and I don't like how much Congress delegated to the IRS via those laws: a whole lot of powers were given to the IRS to enact unending regulations to collect. However unfortunately, the courts have held that those regulations do have the force of law. So you can't say those regulations are not law. They "suck", but they are law.

We have a mixed system of legislated, regulatory and common law that dates back to the English. The "law" is not only what the legislature at the state or federal level passed, but it is also all the regulations that executive agencies write (as a result of what the legislature passed), AND all the opinions that courts have made about both. It would be more accurate if you'd said that the specific laws that Congress passed do not mention withholding specifically. However, the IRS issued regulations that ARE based on what Congress passed and the courts have upheld the IRS saying that withholding is one of several acceptable methods (and are mentioned in the regs) to make those payments. So withholding is in fact, "law" in good ol USA. BTW, it sounds like you know that if you fail to pay enough each quarter you will accrue interest and penalties, under the law. Something I am also familiar with. (groan)...

[3Chief]

You are right that a few states / localities have passed laws requiring the production of an ID on demand. BUT no such law as withstood a review all the way to Supremes... NY's came closes with stop and frisk, but I believe Rudy (or successor) dropped the case at the state level Appeal Ct level ( his attorneys told him they'd lose). I think we agree that anyone who give a copper a hard time is probably going to need someone like my Dad! But, someone who is cooperative is not likely to need one, if he self identifies and doesn't seem suspicious. Moreso, I agree that the only way you are going to successfully defend your right to walk that dog without ID (assuming a copper wants to push it) is to get someone like my Dad to defend you after the fact. That or the ACLU perhaps. On the other hand,, the locality paying that cop may hand out a large settlement -- depending on how far the copper and the dog walker take the issue...... Seen that too.

On taxes... Unfortunately, Congress did pass a law authorizing the income tax and there was a constitutional amendment back in the early part of the 20th Century making such a tax constitutional, although I don't believe the words "income tax" are in the text of the amendment. Btw, I F-ing hate the current income tax, and I don't like how much Congress delegated to the IRS via those laws: a whole lot of powers were given to the IRS to enact unending regulations to collect. However unfortunately, the courts have held that those regulations do have the force of law. So you can't say those regulations are not law. They "suck", but they are law.

We have a mixed system of legislated, regulatory and common law that dates back to the English. The "law" is not only what the legislature at the state or federal level passed, but it is also all the regulations that executive agencies write (as a result of what the legislature passed), AND all the opinions that courts have made about both. It would be more accurate if you'd said that the specific laws that Congress passed do not mention withholding specifically. However, the IRS issued regulations that ARE based on what Congress passed and the courts have upheld the IRS saying that withholding is one of several acceptable methods (and are mentioned in the regs) to make those payments. So withholding is in fact, "law" in good ol USA. BTW, it sounds like you know that if you fail to pay enough each quarter you will accrue interest and penalties, under the law. Something I am also familiar with. (groan)...

Actually if I remember correctly Taxfree4 is a very astute individual when it comes to the legalese of taxes and found a way out of a large percentage of what most of us consider normal taxes. There was a prior post quite awhile back on the subject. I cannot remember who was the other major contributor on that thread but very interesting reading.

[dadeo]

Actually if I remember correctly Taxfree4 is a very astute individual when it comes to the legalese of taxes and found a way out of a large percentage of what most of us consider normal taxes. There was a prior post quite awhile back on the subject. I cannot remember who was the other major contributor on that thread but very interesting reading.

I think I agree with Taxfree4's attitude on taxes: pay as little as is legal. If he's got a legit/legal strategies to cut what I pay Uncle S., I'd love to get hear it.

It's been several years since my Dad passed. One of the many things I miss about having him around, was his business and tax advice. I remember him telling me that one principle of tax law was that you should take advantage of every legal way to reduce the amount you paid. He'd say the laws were there to be taken advantage of. As long as one obeyed the law you can take that deduction, credit or shelter. He used to also say that the cost of living in a civilization was taxes, but that nobody should pay more than what they were legally required. What I find so distressing is that the system is now so complex and unfair, that I, with a graduate degree in state and local governmental finance, need a friggin accountant to ensure that I pay as little as possible, without violating the law. It is insane. And I don't like high local property taxes much either. Especially high school district property taxes in upstate New York state make me nuts. But that is a whole other discussion...!

[taxfree4]

You are right that a few states / localities have passed laws requiring the production of an ID on demand. BUT no such law as withstood a review all the way to Supremes... NY's came closes with stop and frisk, but I believe Rudy (or successor) dropped the case at the state level Appeal Ct level ( his attorneys told him they'd lose). I think we agree that anyone who give a copper a hard time is probably going to need someone like my Dad! But, someone who is cooperative is not likely to need one, if he self identifies and doesn't seem suspicious. Moreso, I agree that the only way you are going to successfully defend your right to walk that dog without ID (assuming a copper wants to push it) is to get someone like my Dad to defend you after the fact. That or the ACLU perhaps. On the other hand,, the locality paying that cop may hand out a large settlement -- depending on how far the copper and the dog walker take the issue...... Seen that too.

On taxes... Unfortunately, Congress did pass a law authorizing the income tax and there was a constitutional amendment back in the early part of the 20th Century making such a tax constitutional, although I don't believe the words "income tax" are in the text of the amendment. Btw, I F-ing hate the current income tax, and I don't like how much Congress delegated to the IRS via those laws: a whole lot of powers were given to the IRS to enact unending regulations to collect. However unfortunately, the courts have held that those regulations do have the force of law. So you can't say those regulations are not law. They "suck", but they are law.

We have a mixed system of legislated, regulatory and common law that dates back to the English. The "law" is not only what the legislature at the state or federal level passed, but it is also all the regulations that executive agencies write (as a result of what the legislature passed), AND all the opinions that courts have made about both. It would be more accurate if you'd said that the specific laws that Congress passed do not mention withholding specifically. However, the IRS issued regulations that ARE based on what Congress passed and the courts have upheld the IRS saying that withholding is one of several acceptable methods (and are mentioned in the regs) to make those payments. So withholding is in fact, "law" in good ol USA. BTW, it sounds like you know that if you fail to pay enough each quarter you will accrue interest and penalties, under the law. Something I am also familiar with. (groan)...

Congress passed an enabling statute "Section 8. Clause 1. The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes" but never passed a law to actually impose the tax and make anyone "liable" in conjunction with that statute to pay it. "The NFL Sucks" It is implied law, same as the ID, if you don't comply it exists because the law lives and breathes on the "gray area". "The NFL Sucks" I was a court watcher meaning a group of us would go into various courts and sit there literally all day sometimes and develop strategies to combat the tyrannical stranglehold the corrupt "Justice (Just us) system" has on the public. I clocked $3000 in fines per hour just in one court, 4 minutes was the average time for a case to be heard. This is where Public Policy comes in (gray area), there are no "constitutional rights" in the courtroom and I have been in the court when a judge says "If you mention your constitutional rights one more time in my courtroom I will hold you in contempt." "The NFL Sucks" The law doesn't matter, your rights don't matter it's the rules that matter and whoever has the better paperwork regarding the rules wins. "The NFL Sucks" The IRS is a private trust based in Puerto Rico, the Internal Revenue imposes the tax the Internal revenue SERVICE collects the tax. They are the collectors for the Federal Reserve as all the debt notes you carry around in your pocket is borrowed by Congress. "The NFL Sucks". N.Y. Crim. Proc. Law §140.50 para. 1 triggers para. 4

[willtill]

Mike definitely has it figured out... when he first came to the forum we had an EXTREMELY long and informative discussion with him about it. Search for some of his earliest posts and you will find how he figured out to avoid paying income tax. It's absolutely brilliant. "The NFL sucks"

[taxfree4]

Mike definitely has it figured out... when he first came to the forum we had an EXTREMELY long and informative discussion with him about it. Search for some of his earliest posts and you will find how he figured out to avoid paying income tax. It's absolutely brilliant. "The NFL sucks"

I don't recommend it for anyone unless you know court procedure, are willing to go before the IRS and court and articulate the specifics of your case. The volumes of paperwork required is beyond what you could imagine because once you submit your first "zero return" and exempt withholding forms the shit hits the fan. The NFL Sucks. It is so much easier to pay, however, being a thick-headed curious prick and loving a challenge I decided to fight the fight. The NFL Sucks. Even with the law, the facts and the paperwork on my side it did not stop them from garnishing my pay - for one cycle as I had it released with a phone call and a fax. The NFL Sucks. But there is nothing like going into an IRS meeting in front of an agent, opening the Internal Revenue Code and saying "Show me where in the Code does it make me 'liable' for an income tax" and they can't, then the mumbling starts and eventually they get up and walk out of the meeting. The NFL sucks. When you become the aggressor and leave them speechless to the point where they leave you have a sense of satisfaction for all the people they scared the shit out of, garnished their wages, ruined their lives. The NFL Sucks. I begged them to audit me, they wouldn't because I'd be in and out of an audit in less than 5 minutes and give them nothing. The NFL sucks. How could a private trust based in Puerto Rico seize, without a court order in direct violation of the 4th Amendment, bank accounts, wages, etc. Don't get me started. The NFL Sucks

[dadeo]

I don't recommend it for anyone unless you know court procedure, are willing to go before the IRS and court and articulate the specifics of your case. The volumes of paperwork required is beyond what you could imagine because once you submit your first "zero return" and exempt withholding forms the shit hits the fan. The NFL Sucks. It is so much easier to pay, however, being a thick-headed curious prick and loving a challenge I decided to fight the fight. The NFL Sucks. Even with the law, the facts and the paperwork on my side it did not stop them from garnishing my pay - for one cycle as I had it released with a phone call and a fax. The NFL Sucks. But there is nothing like going into an IRS meeting in front of an agent, opening the Internal Revenue Code and saying "Show me where in the Code does it make me 'liable' for an income tax" and they can't, then the mumbling starts and eventually they get up and walk out of the meeting. The NFL sucks. When you become the aggressor and leave them speechless to the point where they leave you have a sense of satisfaction for all the people they scared the shit out of, garnished their wages, ruined their lives. The NFL Sucks. I begged them to audit me, they wouldn't because I'd be in and out of an audit in less than 5 minutes and give them nothing. The NFL sucks. How could a private trust based in Puerto Rico seize, without a court order in direct violation of the 4th Amendment, bank accounts, wages, etc. Don't get me started. The NFL Sucks

I don't understand.... are you saying the IRS is a private trust based in PR? Or that you were the PR trust or representing/acting for the trust? I ask cause I happen to know lots of IT folks who work for IRS (IT)... One's a big-wig IT guy... whose never mentioned PR.

The IRS is fubar. I think it's because Congress passed a ton of bad law. But the courts haven't helped because those who win in courts are those who can spend lots of cash hiring better lawyers and spending huge amounts of cash on a case. Congress won't fix it by passing better law, because they are bought and paid for too. Instead they and successive presidents seem to add more to clutter up the tax code each year, by giving more more deductions, credits and favors each year. When it gets so bad, about once a generation, we engage in a half hearted effort to reform and simplify. We did this in the 1980s under Reagan and under Kennedy in the early 1960s. And some think we are doing this now. But these efforts never go far enough, and the fat cats never go away, and are always looking for the next tax gimmick.

I especially agree the courts have the power to determine what your constitutional rights are... That's one of their powers in our system. Complaining that you don't have any rights in a courtroom, is pointless since it's the court that interprets and decides what the constitution and all those written laws, regulations and court precedent means for any one case (meaning your case), one at a time. Besides, is there a good alternative to having the courts do this? It's kind of fundamental to the three branches system we've got.

Bottom line this for me: Were you successful in your dealings with the IRS? Success to me means that they stopped coming after you for the amounts they claimed you owed.

And the NFL sucks! I prefer college football. The cheerleaders are better looking! The game is faster and the tickets are cheaper! Of course it's just as dangerous and corrupt, but it's still more fund than the NFL. I am sure that part of my preference for college ball comes from growing up in a city with a big time school and no NFL teams within a 3 hour drive.

[taxfree4]

I don't understand.... are you saying the IRS is a private trust based in PR? Or that you were the PR trust or representing/acting for the trust? I ask cause I happen to know lots of IT folks who work for IRS (IT)... One's a big-wig IT guy... whose never mentioned PR.

The IRS is fubar. I think it's because Congress passed a ton of bad law. But the courts haven't helped because those who win in courts are those who can spend lots of cash hiring better lawyers and spending huge amounts of cash on a case. Congress won't fix it by passing better law, because they are bought and paid for too. Instead they and successive presidents seem to add more to clutter up the tax code each year, by giving more more deductions, credits and favors each year. When it gets so bad, about once a generation, we engage in a half hearted effort to reform and simplify. We did this in the 1980s under Reagan and under Kennedy in the early 1960s. And some think we are doing this now. But these efforts never go far enough, and the fat cats never go away, and are always looking for the next tax gimmick.

I especially agree the courts have the power to determine what your constitutional rights are... That's one of their powers in our system. Complaining that you don't have any rights in a courtroom, is pointless since it's the court that interprets and decides what the constitution and all those written laws, regulations and court precedent means for any one case (meaning your case), one at a time. Besides, is there a good alternative to having the courts do this? It's kind of fundamental to the three branches system we've got.

Bottom line this for me: Were you successful in your dealings with the IRS? Success to me means that they stopped coming after you for the amounts they claimed you owed.

And the NFL sucks! I prefer college football. The cheerleaders are better looking! The game is faster and the tickets are cheaper! Of course it's just as dangerous and corrupt, but it's still more fund than the NFL. I am sure that part of my preference for college ball comes from growing up in a city with a big time school and no NFL teams within a 3 hour drive.

The IRS is a private trust based out of Puerto Rico, of course your IT guy never heard of PR because all info at the IRS is sectionalized, an inverted pyramid with most of the knowledge at the top which rapidly descends as you go to the lower ranks. This is why the NFL sucks https://squawker.org/culture-wars/br...tional-anthem/. Of course I was successful and success is defined as they left me alone after US Tax Court and Federal District Court. The Honorable Carol Amon, now the Chief Justice of the Eastern District, told the IRS''s lawyers that if what I presented was true, I won the case. Well you should have seen the panic in the room. 5 IRS lawyers had a verbal colonoscopy. A last minute maneuver had the case dismissed without prejudice which was fine with me. Basically, if they ever broke my balls again I would recharge the case, never heard a peep again. What I underlined, italicised and put in bold letters above of your words is a perfect description of Public Policy as Blacks Law describes it. i have been in a courtroom where the same ordinance applied in one case and the exact ordinance was considered not applicable in another exact case and the reason - better paperwork via the rules.

[Walcrow]

Here's a bit of reading for you...................

http://mystrangemind.com/2006/08/irs...ely-owned.html

[dadeo]

What the heck are you talking about? I just looked up the Department of The Treasury Organizational Orders concerning revenue collections. While I don't see anything about Puerto Rico, it does say the IRS is part of the US Department of the Treasury. DOO was last rewritten in 1982 under President Reagan's Treasury Secretary (Regan) and edited a couple of years ago. See: https://www.treasury.gov/about/role-.../to150-10.aspx

You can believe what you want, but I am playing it safe and mailing out the check for $245.00 that the IRS office located in Kansas City Mo says I owe because I under paid my estimated taxes for this year. I may hate the IRS, but I know they can kick my butt around....

Been hunting around the Internet regarding what say you about PR and Puerto Rico. Seems as if people started confusing some activity concerning the US setting up some dumb office in PR in the early 1950s when AT THE SAME TIME, Treasury also changed the name of the Bureau of Internal Revenue to the IRS. A little hunting around proved to me that your claim below is nothing more than just a theory posted by some who don't like the IRS.

Oh, and agencies don't have to always get a law passed to change their name, or even to get established. The Department of Commerce changed the name of the Bureau of Export Administration to The Bureau of Industry and Security some years ago with a Departmental Organization Order. The only folks on the Hill that gave a damn were the folks providing the money on the Appropriations Committee. And they cared only in that nobody in Commerce told them beforehand. It pissed them off. The next fiscal year's appropriation bill made it illegal for Commerce to change the name of any Commerce agency without giving Appropriations a 15 day advance warning before. The only thing less meaningful than that name change is your claim below about where the IRS is supposedly located. It doesn't matter and doesn't even seem to be true. Although I did get a good chuckle out of it! (Thanks, this site is all sorts of entertaining).

Not sure why the IRS didn't come after you and your money, but I doubt it had anything about how the agency was authorized. The IRS doesn't care how it was authorized when it comes after someone. The IRS is a fact on the ground, (a painful one though). It's a bit like that 75 year old oak tree in my backyard. I have no idea whether a squirrel dropped a nut to start it, or if some moron planted it. Either way, it drops painful acorns every fall on my deck. Uunlike the IRS, I may be able to actually get rid of the stupid tree.

The IRS is a private trust based out of Puerto Rico, of course your IT guy never heard of PR because all info at the IRS is sectionalized, an inverted pyramid with most of the knowledge at the top which rapidly descends as you go to the lower ranks. This is why the NFL sucks https://squawker.org/culture-wars/br...tional-anthem/. Of course I was successful and success is defined as they left me alone after US Tax Court and Federal District Court. The Honorable Carol Amon, now the Chief Justice of the Eastern District, told the IRS''s lawyers that if what I presented was true, I won the case. Well you should have seen the panic in the room. 5 IRS lawyers had a verbal colonoscopy. A last minute maneuver had the case dismissed without prejudice which was fine with me. Basically, if they ever broke my balls again I would recharge the case, never heard a peep again. What I underlined, italicised and put in bold letters above of your words is a perfect description of Public Policy as Blacks Law describes it. i have been in a courtroom where the same ordinance applied in one case and the exact ordinance was considered not applicable in another exact case and the reason - better paperwork via the rules.