2021 Road Glide vs. '13 F6B

[willtill]

I don't read much Harley Davidson news. I'm often embarrassed when some guy tells me about his 'FXYZ Spring Tail' and I have no idea which model he's talking about! But 5 years ago when they released the Milwaukee 8 I read a long tech article about it and was very impressed.

It seems odd that H-D would develop such a refined engine, with a catalytic converter and available in 3 distinct variations, primarily for racing. And that they'd design it without considering emissions regulations. What the heck do they race those engines in? And how did they end up in all those cruisers?

Why would you be embarrassed? The Harley pirates are a cult of their own. No need for you to keep abreast of their models or features.

[Az Wingrider]

The Milwaukee 8 was a racing motor, never designed to deal with EPA restrictions, they'll never fix it.

The Milwaukee 8 is not and never was a racing motor. It is an evolution of the traditional Harley V-twin. The Twin Cam it replaces was a evolution from the Evo and so on all the way back to the Knucklehead. As a result of more efficient combustion and relocation of the catalytic converter the exhaust temps were lowered by 100 degrees.
The last Harley motor with 4 valves per cylinder was the V-Rod, before that the only 8 valve motor Harley produced was the 1916 Model 17 racing motorcycle.

[taxfree4]

The Milwaukee 8 is not and never was a racing motor. It is an evolution of the traditional Harley V-twin. The Twin Cam it replaces was a evolution from the Evo and so on all the way back to the Knucklehead. As a result of more efficient combustion and relocation of the catalytic converter the exhaust temps were lowered by 100 degrees.
The last Harley motor with 4 valves per cylinder was the V-Rod, before that the only 8 valve motor Harley produced was the 1916 Model 17 racing motorcycle.

Somebody better tell Harley because they're using it for King of the Baggers racing series. And as far as efficient combustion take a look at a engine tear down after just 500 miles of this engine, they're on YouTube. Every engine Harley ever made is an "evolution" of the previous engine so I don't see the point.

[Verismo]

Every engine Harley ever made is an "evolution" of the previous engine so I don't see the point.

Not technically true. They were commissioned during WW2 to design and make an engine that could hang with the Germans and basically copied the design from BMW. They called it the XA. It was a flat twin and shaft driven, and ran about a hundred degrees cooler than the V due to the fins being out in the air. But God forbid Harley stick with an efficient and long lasting design, so they discontinued them after the Army leaned more into the Jeep, and only a thousand of them were made.

Jason

[Az Wingrider]

Somebody better tell Harley because they're using it for King of the Baggers racing series. And as far as efficient combustion take a look at a engine tear down after just 500 miles of this engine, they're on YouTube. Every engine Harley ever made is an "evolution" of the previous engine so I don't see the point.

King of the Bagger racing is for production motorcycles with production motors. Very few modifications are allowed. The Milwaukee Eight motor is a 45 degree, air cooled, pushrod V twin motor with a flat plane crank. As I said previously it is based on the Knucklehead that was introduced in 1936, It wasn't a race motor in 1936 and is not a race motgor now. Harley has made much more technologically based motors that would have been far better race motors. The new Revolution Max engine is a 60 degree, water cooled, overhead cam, V-twin with a split plane crank and a 9500 rpm rev limit. If Harley wanted to build a race motor this is current technology.

[taxfree4]

King of the Bagger racing is for production motorcycles with production motors. Very few modifications are allowed. The Milwaukee Eight motor is a 45 degree, air cooled, pushrod V twin motor with a flat plane crank. As I said previously it is based on the Knucklehead that was introduced in 1936, It wasn't a race motor in 1936 and is not a race motgor now. Harley has made much more technologically based motors that would have been far better race motors. The new Revolution Max engine is a 60 degree, water cooled, overhead cam, V-twin with a split plane crank and a 9500 rpm rev limit. If Harley wanted to build a race motor this is current technology.

Again, since the revolution max is not yet on any production motorcycles they're using the Miluakee 8...for racing. Doesn't change anything I stated. I could look up the specs myself, for what, the fact remains that's the engine they're going with.

[Az Wingrider]

The Milwaukee 8 was a racing motor, never designed to deal with EPA restrictions, they'll never fix it.

One of the design requirements for the Milwaukee 8 motor was that it be able to meet Euro 5 emission standards that went into effect Jan 1, 2020. The Euro 5 standards are much stricter than USA standards. The Euro 5 standards are Carbon Monoxide 1.00 g/km, Hydrocarbons 0.100 g/km, NOx 0.60 g/km and this is for the life of the motorcycle. For example United States EPA standards for Carbon Monoxide are 12.0 g/km. That is 12 times as much allowable Carbon Monoxide. The Harley Davidson FL series of motorcycles (baggers) are certified for sale in Europe. This is a very clean motor for emissions.

Just because you repeatedly claim that this motor will not meet EPA standards doesn't make it true.

[taxfree4]

One of the design requirements for the Milwaukee 8 motor was that it be able to meet Euro 5 emission standards that went into effect Jan 1, 2020. The Euro 5 standards are much stricter than USA standards. The Euro 5 standards are Carbon Monoxide 1.00 g/km, Hydrocarbons 0.100 g/km, NOx 0.60 g/km and this is for the life of the motorcycle. For example United States EPA standards for Carbon Monoxide are 12.0 g/km. That is 12 times as much allowable Carbon Monoxide. The Harley Davidson FL series of motorcycles (baggers) are certified for sale in Europe. This is a very clean motor for emissions.

Just because you repeatedly claim that this motor will not meet EPA standards doesn't make it true.

You Google very well, like people who use other people's footnotes as their own. I stated that the motor was never made to meet EPA Standards. You left out the end part of the equation. In order to meet them this motor has to run super hot as I ride with Harley technicians, having myself owned them for 35 years. They have pulled temps of between 350-360 degrees, with their Dynojet Power Visions on regular days with low humidity, highway riding no traffic resulting in cracks in the head usually in between the exhaust ports, piston ring failure, worn valve guides etc, etc etc. This motor was not designed for baggers getting caught in traffic or city riding. You can google all the specs you want, they're useless in real world settings. This racing motor works great on the track. See no googling

[jmdaniel]

You Google very well, like people who use other people's footnotes as their own. I stated that the motor was never made to meet EPA Standards. You left out the end part of the equation. In order to meet them this motor has to run super hot as I ride with Harley technicians, having myself owned them for 35 years. They have pulled temps of between 350-360 degrees, with their Dynojet Power Visions on regular days with low humidity, highway riding no traffic resulting in cracks in the head usually in between the exhaust ports, piston ring failure, worn valve guides etc, etc etc. This motor was not designed for baggers getting caught in traffic or city riding. You can google all the specs you want, they're useless in real world settings. This racing motor works great on the track. See no googling

Googling? Dude, you have no idea what Dwight does for a part time job, when he's not riding his B.

[taxfree4]

Googling? Dude, you have no idea what Dwight does for a part time job, when he's not riding his B.

What does that matter, the facts don't care what anyone does part or full time and it doesn't need anyone to believe them to be true. These guys I ride with actually test, work and repair these motors in the real world, and this problem is industry wide, no secret, they run super hot because they have to meet the EPA Standards. Harley doesn't care like they've never cared.