I getting the one I post the picture Of earlier my Daughter is buying it for me for my birthday!
Otherwise I would already had it. As i get older she says it hard to find me something.
I her though college + she's a RN nowI did some good in my life!
Bob, probably a good bit of the blame goes my way. I could have been more clear with my intensions and I should know how folks would read some of it. So actually the apology should be mine.
Bobbyf6b and Steve, sorry fella's but just because you have some "thought" of what hydroplaning should feel like, or because trikes use CT's, does not void the reality. Hydroplaning simply means the tire contact with the road surface is interfered with by the liquid, in most traditional arguments, rain water. The larger the contact patch the greater the interference. MC tires as a rule do NOT HP because of the very limited contact patch.
Yes a CT has MANY sipes to channel water out, but it can't get it all out and particularly when you have a fraction of the weight applied. Obviously the NARROWER the CT you go with, the better to reduce the affect.
So Steve you wouldn't KNOW or FEEL your bike hydroplaning necessarily. You might if you had to maneuver quickly or brake abruptly. Think of it like this: You hydroplane your car routinely, don't know it, but it is in common on both rain and snow. Lets use snow because it is an easier visual. You drive along on snow covered roads no problem but you need to make a left turn and you didn't adjust speed. What's the car do? Obviously it slides sideways as it tries to maintain a forward line even though you are trying to turn left. Can be a slight slide or severe depending upon speed, temps, tread design, tire width.
Ideally with a CT on a bike you'd run pressure near the 32-35 psi which would have you ROLL from side to side on the tire like on a bike tire. Most folks running DS run MUCH lower pressures thus keeping the tire relatively flat on the road and allowing the sidewall flex to roll. Down sides to both and pro's to both. The point here is that ALL of these factors come into play, so know they do and account for them. I don't want you fellas feeling defensive about this discussion. It is from my position just discussion, stuff that should be known by anyone running DS. Ride safe fellas
And again MY apology if something I said offended you all.
Originally Posted by Teach
Ah....I drive an AWD Subaru Forester, with serious snow tires on snow wheels in the Winter time, so...I have no idea what this slipping and sliding is all about
Teach:
Your observation on tire traction is "dead on". It correctly articulates what dynamics are coming into play when a "wider thread" replaces that of a "narrower thread" irregardless it be a CT or MT. A dear old friend, who never rode a cycle, had a simple tire observation. "Wide Walks On"/"Narrow Cuts Through", and that applied to snow or water. These is inherent risk involved with "Dark Side Riding" which you are personally aware of. When selecting a CT for a cycle application, that tire dimensionally, should mirror that of the M/T it replaces and that includes tire weight. Knowing all the facts before pulling the trigger on a C/T will not eliminate risk but will reduce it. Your input on tire weight was also correct and brought light to it's importance. It is another important factor which needs to be taken into account especially when folks are selecting "heavier run flat tires".
I thank you for your important and valued input
Bob
I was at the Honda dealer last weekend. And i started talking to the salesman about my F6 and was telling him I was I was putting a General car tire on my F6B. He said no you don't want to do that Insurance companies will not cover you It's a loophole out for them!
I was back up there today, Talking to the guys about Different bikes we have owned. I went wandering through the sales floor ran into the salesman again, Started talking about windshield and how the F6B Hondaline windshield tappered too much. Then we started talking about tires again Out of the blue he says (I hope everybody with a car tire on the bike crashes and dies). I was like WTF Thank you very much, I bought three Bikes from this shop. What an attitude !
I have found car tires get much better traction in the wet than motorcycle tires. Car tires are specifically designed for the wet. Motorcycle tires typically have shallower grooves and work for shit in the wet.
Once again it's what you think might be true vs. what is actually true.
I had a Potenza on a Valkyrie Std and an Interstate and I put a Khumo on GW I had and a GW I still have. The purpose was to get better braking power when it is wet (in Houston that used to be frequently) and to avoid the 10K tire change routine. I do NOT intend to go DS on the F6B until I see it on the roads dry, wet, and with loose dirt. At least that is the plan. Then again, if I ever park next to another F6B and he is running a fatty; well, all bets are pretty much off.
Mustangjake, actually no such loophole exists for insurance companies with regards to running a CT on a motorcycle. Lots of folks repeat what they heard somewhere and this is one of those claims. It would be like arguing that the insurance company could deny claims because you ran a motorcycle tire other than OEM.
Gumby, you have a great deal more contact patch with the CT on dry roads, so you would logically have more rubber on the road and therefore better traction. However that is deceptive because it doesn't account for the stickier compounds used in MC tires. I'd have to see the data before I could confirm better traction. On wet roads the MC tire is SUPERIOR for traction. Two reasons; Limited contact patch which means little chance of hydroplaning, and secondly the silicates utilized in the motorcycle compounds. WAY more sticky than anything used in a conventional car tire.
While the depth of the tire grooves plays a limited role in the dispersion of water, the compound, groove direction, and tire compound play a much greater role. I know you are just screwin with me but I'll toss out another example for you, easy visual. If tire grooves were the sole factor in traction, offroad truck tires would just be big ole knobbies, MX motorcycle tires would be the same, and all street MC tires would have groove patterns like a car.
Tell you what, you find me a single café racer willing to swap his track day tires for a CT. Now mind you those fellas are running at HUNDREDS of mph, in rain, heat, etc.... and they RELY on the tire COMPOUND for traction. BUT thanks for bringing this up because it is ANOTHER of the wives tales like the "insurance loophole" previously mentioned, that have no scientific merit.
Now if you REALLY want to know the REAL deal?? Put on your darkside setup and go run some 45mph emergency (read panic) stops in the rain. Find a straight seclude road and take someone along to mark and measure. Do the same with a MC tire. The MC tire will stop quicker without skidding than the CT (even with the link). Now I KNOW this to be true, because I've tested it myself. Cool thing about my Beemer is the rear brake is a true trail brake which allows me to test what the rear end is doing alone, and with the front. The CT will skid, read lock up, way easier and quicker than a MC tire.... and once sliding, continues to do so much further than a MC tire before coming to rest. That is the REALITY, not what one would think. This is where the MISCONCEPTIONS about what hydroplaning is, comes into play.
I've tried to share what I have tested, investigated and know from first hand use in this post. Take what you wish and discard that you won't apply. It is not my intention to argue or beat someone into submission. Nor is it my intension to convince anyone to NOT run a DS setup. Do so informed, that's all. Now I am going to walk away from this post because I cannot add anything more of value. Ride safe and I've enjoyed the discourse... T
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