Historically speaking...Polictical

[Hornblower]

Wow, threads like this sure can go downhill fast. Frankly, I was hoping not to post anymore on this subject but this morning, I just can't help adding this hopefully, final thought...Christians want to love people of all faiths into God's Kingdom. OTOH, Islam wants all to worship their god and, if you don't, they consider you an infidel and want to kill you. Just as in Christianity, some are more passionate than others about following their religion but I'm pretty confident the basic goal of these two religions is as I have stated.

As far as overstating the danger of the muslim movement, you don't have to go any further back in history that Nazi Germany. There too, many sat by the sidelines and did nothing until it was too late and millions of innocent people were brutally murdered. Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself but unfortunately, it often does.

[Steve 0080]

Not sure any thread goes down hill. As long as it does not become personal. I think threads like this give people the ability to voice their opinion and that is a good thing. It also shows others what side of the fence you fall to and that bit of infromation can be very interesting. I started this thread as part of the holiday and remembering why. Differing opinions is what makes this country great. Most here had valid points to make, some showed what side of the fence they fall on. JMO

[Ixol Phaane]

There is never a winner in a conversation like this. ... We should never...forgive. I'm an American. I worry about and care about Americans. ... everyone else can kiss my azz.

Spoken like an American.
Wonder why we're so disrespected and hated in parts of the world.

[Ixol Phaane]

...I started this thread as part of the holiday and remembering why. Differing opinions is what makes this country great... It also shows others what side of the fence you fall to and that bit of infromation can be very interesting... Most here had valid points to make, some showed what side of the fence they fall on. JMO

For those who have forgotten, this is "why" the Independence Day holiday...

"...We, therefore, the Representatives of the United States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political conection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor."

It has nothing to do with a holy or religious war, or religious intolerance, or Islam or Muslim bashing or other racist bs.

And I wonder... what fence is it that you reference?

"JMO"? Yeah, THAT's a fact.

[Steve 0080]

For me, Freedom is not Free...it is an on going battle...you either chose to fight "them" who ever that might be, in their backyard or ours....I chose theirs. The holiday was a celebration of Freedom, if you did not serve you should thank someone who served on your behalf. As far as what side of the fence you fall on...I guess that depends on the fence....

[motozeke]

Thomas Jefferson, the first American president to actually fight a war against Muslim powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates), was a strong advocate of Muslim religious freedom in America and went to lengths to assure the Muslims against whom America fought that our war was not against their religion, no matter what their own motivations may have been.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/05/our_...ncluded_islam/

I won't associate myself with those who believe that we are engaged in a war against a religion. Frankly I find nothing appealing about Islam, and I am appalled at how women and non-Muslims are treated by those who range from the more conservative to the fanatical among them. In America we won't tolerate a lack of respect for women or other religions. But that's because I am pro-freedom, not anti-Islamic.

If anyone tries to terrorize or make war on America or our allies, then we should make war on them--as we have before and will continue to. I'm not about to expand that into a general war against Islam, which is just foolishness and will lead to nothing but more fanaticism and unnecessary death and destruction.

Hating your enemy is satisfying, I get it. It's a free country, you can hate all you want. Just don't wrap it up in the flag, it deserves better.

[motozeke]

By the way, I appreciate all you guys. I have riding buddies with whom I strongly disagree (one of them says, with great emphasis, that Obama is EVERY BIT AS EVIL as Hitler, if not moreso!), but we never let it get in the way of having fun.

[flyboy]

Thomas Jefferson, the first American president to actually fight a war against Muslim powers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbary_pirates), was a strong advocate of Muslim religious freedom in America and went to lengths to assure the Muslims against whom America fought that our war was not against their religion, no matter what their own motivations may have been.

http://www.salon.com/2013/10/05/our_...ncluded_islam/

I won't associate myself with those who believe that we are engaged in a war against a religion. Frankly I find nothing appealing about Islam, and I am appalled at how women and non-Muslims are treated by those who range from the more conservative to the fanatical among them. In America we won't tolerate a lack of respect for women or other religions. But that's because I am pro-freedom, not anti-Islamic.

If anyone tries to terrorize or make war on America or our allies, then we should make war on them--as we have before and will continue to. I'm not about to expand that into a general war against Islam, which is just foolishness and will lead to nothing but more fanaticism and unnecessary death and destruction.

Hating your enemy is satisfying, I get it. It's a free country, you can hate all you want. Just don't wrap it up in the flag, it deserves better.

I agree, we seem to think alike!

[Phantom]

I am enjoying this thread …… seeing several flaws in some of the arguments but I digress.

I APPLAUD all of you for maintaining (for the most part) a civil discussion without mud slinging.

There is ONLY one person in this world that will agree with you 100% of the time ….. look in the mirror.

Some of us are HONDA fanatics, others are HARLEY fanatics ……. eventually the Harley Infidels will see the light and migrate to our Honda camp

[SpeedyWho]

I wear this patch on my vest.

Attachment 6615

The war over religion will never end because every religion believes that all others are wrong and going to hell.

“Religion is for people who're afraid of going to hell. Spirituality is for those who've already been there.”

Thank you Bobby and Thank You for your service to our country