Greg I don't like Harleys either. Now I don't care how many you own. Personally $25,000 plus for a slow azz machine is too much for me. I demand performance for my money. You know Greg , this is the thing. This is an F6B forum. Around here the F6B is King. A lot of us own other bikes. I have an extremely nice M109R. However you don't hear me extolling its virtues on here. I may mention it in reference , but , around here the F6B is King. That's why its called the F6B Forum. Don't expect very many guys to climb on the HD train on this forum. You will have to go to an HD forum to find that. I have two Brother in laws that ride HD's. Without a doubt my two best friends. We just agree to disagree. When we all ride together we are just family. They know I'm never gonna ride a HD. They always ask me to lead , out of respect. I'm the oldest. They never try to go around either. We settled that a long time ago. No Greg , guys like Doug can hate a HD if they want. This is a Honda site. Dedicated to the F6B. If you love Harleys that much they have forums of their own.